DAC’s

My brother owned the Meitner MA3 the Denafrips Terminator2 is better in every aspect and onky $4600 ,their brand new 12th anniversary model even betterstill

their 12 anniversary Terminator + is $7200.  And night and day better 

the best value the Top Audio GD   With regeneration  built in is very good underwood Wally $4200.  These are built exceptionally well over 40 pounds each.

and sound fantastic great R2R dacs Thst do everything well

holosprings  May KTE is another excellent dac . For less monies.

@tomic601 

That’s my understanding as well. Maybe @gdnrbob found a way to run Roon app without Core. That would be a quite a feat and hence my curiosity. 
. 

@lalitk  Bob is a good dude :-) we shall see…. He is true gentleman 

As you are also !

Buy the Holo May and send it to me for modification.  Then you can be done with all of this.

Happy Listening.

“He is true gentleman”
@tomic601 

Takes one to know one :-) 

@shtr74sims 

The Terminator 2 and the Auralic Aries G1.1 or the Altair G1.1 make a really good pairing.

All the best.

I’m using a SMSL SD-9 streamer with a .Musician Pegasus DAC. The streamer supports I2S connectivity. The Pegasus is a R2R DAC and the pair sounds great. 

@charles1dad i would like to take credit for the comparison between the MA3 and the Holo May KTE that I posted but it was actually fellow Agoner @abramsmatch that conducted the comparison and wrote that articulate opinion.

@shtr74sims Before you let the peanut gallery sway you away from the MA3 (comments like,”$7k is a lot of money when the XXX DAC (only) costs less”), remember that the MA3 includes a world-class streamer/player that has digital processing circuitry identical to the $4500 EMM Labs NS1. Review here:

@bigkidz why would anyone buy a product that needs modifications. Almost as silly as that Voyger amplifier thread.

OP demo that DAC and you decide. These guys are just polluting your thread. 

@jerryg123 - do you have any experience with upgrading an audio component?

Why - simple, to achieve a better sounding system.

All mass produced products are built to a price point.  For example - when was the last time you looked at a point-to-point wired product.  Seen Audio Note Capacitors or Resistors in a product.  Custom wound transformers?  AC filter chokes, etc.  V-Capacitors?  Hardly ever!.

So by modifying a component with these types of parts upgrades you get to a level of sound quality you almost can never achieve with a mass produced audio product especially within the price points most people here have heard or purchased.  In fact, you can get to a reference level that most people have never heard before and most likely, never will with a mass produced product.

So I hope I have answered your question.

Happy Listening.

Okay if you say so. Sure glad I don’t have any of that mass produced stuff. 

Not buying any of that.

@dlcockrum 

Okay, I didn’t know that. Well then credit to him.😊

Charles 

@bigkidz my gear has all that, every component is hand built. LessLoss DAC with x640 not going to need a thing.

Meitner MA3 DAC sounds good. The price is good. I would definitely consider this.

hi, can give this iFi Neo Stream / Dac combo a try. 

While keeping the streamer and DAC makes a lot if sense, for synergy and financial purposes I went with a Cary Audio DMS650. 
They are made in the US right here in Raleigh NC. I can only compare with my lackluster Bluesound Node, but there is absolutely no comparison. It was easily the most important addition to my system. The sonic upgrade was beyond night and day. Everything became huge, clear, powerful. I played the Made in Japan album so loud that my poor neighbor had to come a knocking. It was so clean and clear and powerful that I couldn’t turn it down. They sell direct to consumer and always run sales. In my case I got 25% off since I also purchased my amp from them. I think that the standard discount for one component is 15%. That makes the DMS650 around 4100. Or the upgraded DMS700 which uses FGPA technology at 5700. I was thinking able to find a negative review. They are also a company that issues upgrades rarely rather than trying to entice people every year or two with some minor tweaks and marketing hype. 
My only other comparison is what I heard at an audio show this summer. To my ears, my 14k system sounds as good to me as any of the systems in the 20-30k range. They are known for a non fatiguing and natural sound. The system reveals differences in recordings of course, but nothing sounds terrible on this system. Not even the horrid AC/DC and Led Zep recordings. They have a 30 day trial period and they also have a DAC only option. They charge a 3% return fee unfortunately. Happy hunting. 

“This is my first dac and the lumin t3 is prob the easiest to get into to start.”
@shtr74sims

Good call! The T3 has a pretty darn good DAC on board and LUMIN app is well laid out for easy browsing. You don’t have to mess with external NUC type of devices for ROON Core or ROON subscription. One very important factor which is often overlooked in purchasing a streamer is ongoing software maintenance and support from the manufacturer.

@JERRYG123 - your product may have some of that but (not really) but I asked to send me a Holo May DAC which has none of that.  Big difference between the two products.  But when I am finished with the Holo May, it will become a reference DAC that competes with most anything no matter what price range.

Happy Listening.

Good suggestions all around, but at the end of the day, the OP would do good to actually audition something in his system, live with it a few days, then decide.  No matter how good something sounds in one person's system and room, it may sound worse (or better) to them. 

I hope you could simply ask to borrow the Meitner for a few days (they might ask for a deposit) from the seller. Kick the tires so to speak. Good luck!

Whether someone spends $300, $3000, or $10,000 on a DAC is not my business.

Life is short. Do what makes you happy. But know that as you go up the food chain you ARE doing socially good things such as helping people stay employed, helping engineers push the level of performance, and helping them pay their bills, and yes, make charitable contributions.  God forbid we ever live in a country where the government places limits on what you think you want and can buy, otherwise we'd all be driving Chevy Sparks, not that there is anything wrong with one.  

Also like my P1 the T3 has a USB out so it functions as a VERY good transport as well - I often use my P1 out via USB or BNC to a Lampizator Baltic 3 for a different sort of presentation, so in a sense you are getting 2 for 1 with the T3 - indeed, I just ordered a Gustard R26 to see how an R2R DAC sounds in my system!

i think these posts provide a useful perspective on dac choice, especially at a high level of cost and performance

what does one want? do we want a dose of vacuum tube magic coming from the dac stage? are we prepared to, and do we welcome tube rolling, dealing with tubes and their attendant benefits and difficulties? or do we want as much straight wire with gain ’neutrality’ from our dac -- or do we want something more reminiscent of high level analog sound -- slightly softer, silkier, more ambient, little more diffuse? of course this leads us into the key aspect of personal taste, system and room synergy...

what about features? do we want dsp to tailor the customize the sound? do we want or need dsp room/bass management from our dac? do we have a great linestage already or do we want to delete that stage? do we have extra analog sources we still want to readily switch in to hear? do we want more boxes and cables, or do we value simplicity (applies very much to running roon, with core, cleansers and so on... lotsa boxes and power supplies, filters) in box count and setup?

additionally, what user interface, what streaming service, what streaming source... all are critical considerations (are we apple ios folks or android...tidal or quboz or...pc streamer or dedicated or integrated... and so on) ... less can be more, or more can be more... each brings its own good and bad... convenience and ease, or ultimate in sound for that last 1-2%, but lots of work, trouble, complexity to achieve it...

@tomic601 - I've got an MSB Analog DAC with power base, too - sounds great!! I use that with my headphone system and a Holo May KTE for my 2-channel....

@larsman blessed you are my friend ;-) enjoy in great health. i am blessed to be listening to Oscar Peterson this morning on a very enjoyable integrated streamer / DAC from NAIM….

best to all

@kairosman 

Very interested in your listening comparison of the relatively cheap Gustard to your Lampizator.

Both are on my short list of DAC's to consider.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

  LP

@tomic601 - Thank you! Enjoy Oscar and have a great weekend! 

@bigkidz no sale here. No China DAC here either (not a rub they are building some nice DAC’s) . I will keep my 680D and my new toy LessLoss Echo’s End.

You can put a Porsche motor in Volkswagen and guess what it is still a VW. Not a rub on VW. Why would I chuck a factory warranty for some tweaks and unsubstantiated claims.

I am always happy when listening to music.

OP get some home auditions lined up and let your ears decide. 

@jerryg123 - why would you think to buy a new unit when there are plenty of used ones on the market.  Yeah not the same as just putting a motor in another car.  My company manufacturers reference audio components and we have been repairing/upgrading/modifying them for 20+ years now. While parts can be a solution, we can also modify the circuits for improved sound quality.

If the OP is looking for the same old thing, so be it.  If he wants something special then that is another story.  He could buy one of our DACs but we are a little higher priced than $7K.

As far as "some tweaks and unsubstantiated claims" well then you don't have a clue who I am or anything about my company.  We do not advertise or look for reviews simply because we are in a different market then people here on this site.  What I offer is a way to improve sound for not much cost.  

You can read a review by another Agon member who has gotten to know us and who is learning about sound by searching this:

VU JÀDÉ AUDIO Lampizator Upgrades

I am not here to promote our products but I am offering assistance in helping others achieve the best sound possible who don't have the money to afford something better.  I offer repairs and upgrades at reasonable costs to anyone interested.  I also offer everyone the opportunity to come to our Listening Room in New Jersey any time to listen, learn and enjoy.

Happy Listening.

Okay, I am back.

But, it seems a lot has happened since I last chimed in.😮

So,

I wanted to have both my office and living room systems playing simultaneously the same music.

I thought Aurrender would be the cure, but, alas, no.

So, I got the Innuos Zen Mini for the office, and the Innuos Zenith for the living room (main system). Setting everything up, I had a choice to use Roon. Being a frugal (cheap) person I was hesitant, but, then thought, What the heck give it a try.

Mind you, I had Bluesound before.

It worked very nicely, and even though I had to work out some issues (which Bluesound helped to rectify), it was a very nice situation.

Moving to Roon was quite a pleasant change. A sleek piece of software that is very easy to work with and offers a lot of sound 'improvements' (DSP, for example).

So, to answer the question- Do I need a Roon Core?

From my experience, no.

You buy the Roon software licence and then set up your system.

Works like a charm for me.

(BTW- I was using an Ayre QB-9 Twenty with the Innuos Zenith before moving to the Brinkmann. I never had any issue with Roon during that change up).

Bob

@gdnrbob

i think some of the posters, including me, were a little mystified how you said that your system ran roon, and yet you didn’t need a roon core...

now we understand... you have the zen mini and zenith, either of which can serve as the core machine... 👍

Ahh, that was the mystery,

B

So, to answer the question- Do I need a Roon Core?

From my experience, no.

@gdnrbob : Your Innuos IS the Roon Core

@gdnrbob

just so we close the loop for you... click this link to the innuos support page regarding roon...

https://innuos.com/kb/setting-up-roon/

see point #1

😉

@lpretiring will get the R26 Monday but burn-in will take a week, I will let you know in this thread when ready to comment. BTW I had and sold a 2020 Terminator II so I have had an R2R before but sold it to get the Lampi and now I don't want to spend more than the R26 to have the R2R sound again - but I will sell the R26 if it isn't at least as good as the Termi II, though right now I don't have clue which other R2R I'd go for...

@gdnrbob 

That’s a sweet setup! Thanks @thyname ​​@jjss49 for closing the loop on this mystery :-) 

In my opinion, you could get a Chord Qutest for about 2k, which is one of the best DACs around, and save about 5k.

Believe me, you will never hear the difference, especially not worth a price differential of 5k, even if you have better hearing than the creature in the movie "A Quiet Place".

Believe me, you will never hear the difference, especially not worth a price differential of 5k, even if you have better hearing than the creature in the movie "A Quiet Place".

@cakyol while I agree, I worked it a bit different earlier…

I doubt I would be able to hear the difference, and I think it would be wise for the OP to try and get a good listen of it.
So for me a 2k $DAC is enough for the easy listening of what I use streaming for.

@shtr74sims Did you try and see if the dealer would allow you to try it, say over the weekend?

@holmz no not yet, been a busy week. To many options haha. 

holmz no not yet, been a busy week. To many options haha

@shtr74sims there is no dishonour in moving slowing, nor being busy. 😎
Nor looking at many other options.

While I do not personally hear a great difference between DACS, the options/controls/interface can be pretty important and a deal maker/breaker.

@cakyol

In my opinion, you could get a Chord Qutest for about 2k, which is one of the best DACs around, and save about 5k.

Believe me, you will never hear the difference, especially not worth a price differential of 5k, even if you have better hearing than the creature in the movie "A Quiet Place".

the op of this thread has not listed his system nor setup, unless i missed it

for me, since early 2020, i had the mojo, 2qute, qutest, then the hugo tt2... i then added the m scaler to feed the tt2 (this stack remains one among a small handful of dac setups i currently use, as i am very pleased with its sound)

in my stepwise progression, the 2qute and qutest sounded very very similar, but otherwise, there is/was a clearly noticeable change (upgrade) in sound quality each step up the ladder, so to speak - imaging, tonality, timbre, bass solidity, richness (in an analog sense) all improved

so for me personally, i would not simply assume the op will not hear any difference -- we don’t know the quality of the rest of his system

that said, one can reasonably debate whether 5 grand at the margin is more wisely spent to buy a better dac than a qutest, compared to upgrading something else in his setup... we just don’t have the information to know, or have an opinion...

@holmz I agree with you. I have been taking my time. In no rush, I am trying to be smart and methodical in my decisions. I feel it’s been working so far. There are enough dac options to make your head spin these days. 

In my opinion, you could get a Chord Qutest for about 2k, which is one of the best DACs around, and save about 5k. Believe me, you will never hear the difference...

This is from a guy who at the start of the year? was in 7th heaven with his bluetooth driven main system. I think what he is trying to say is "he will never [be able to] hear the difference..."

@shtr74sims to add more to the plate… @gdnrbob just put in “Innuos Zen Mini for the office, and the Innuos Zenith for the living room ”.

My AVR/AVP allegedly has a good Roon player built into it, and I am haunching over the bench to get the cables working for it this weekend.

Some of these Streamer/DAC combos are probably better options for people like me.

@bigkidz Not what I buy show me a LessLoss or a 680D out there on Agon or USAM.

But I do get where you are coming from. Hey if I am NJ I will look you all up. 

Enjoy the music. ✌

Tin ear I do believe. 

Believe me, you will never hear the difference, especially not worth a price differential of 5k, even if you have better hearing than the creature in the movie "A Quiet Place".

@jerrybj

You forgot to mention that I was actually using aptX HD bluetooth and am now using LDAC.

At least, please quote me correctly next time :-)

@cakhole

Who are you next going to tell to "go stand in the corner" because they don't agree with you.

You have shown by your comments to be caustic to the extreme. Your skewed opinions have no sway on any audio related matter, and should be ignored.

@jerryg123 - love to have people stop by and listen to music in our dedicated Listening Room.  Speaker manufacturers are sending us speakers so that we can have people have a listen as there are not enough dealers around any longer.  PLUS we allow people to bring their gear so that they can hear speakers with their own equipment.  Try doing that with a dealer.

You spent some coin on your DAC but most people hear really do not spend that kind of money.  We can help them achieve really excellent sound by helping them with upgrading equipment.  It is an eye opening experience when someone stops by and we play something for them.  PLUS we get to hear other things and learn also.  Before we began manufacturing our own components, we were first audiophools also!

Happy Listening - all are welcome Northern New Jersey

shtr74sims  Hello Folks,

As a long-timer who waited till emotions were finally triggered in the late 90's by a digital source (Arcam Alpha 9 with dCS Ring dac)...I'm reluctant "investing" in DAC technology.  Then again, I've a restricted audio budget and am happy for those who are able.  As one who prefers to "rest" on my choices for a long run, I've been steered to the Pro side of dacs and am bi-amping to a pair of subwoofers using a Focusrite Clarett Pro4, paying LOTS of attention to grounding and great power management.  

A close nearby friend has the ideal large space, great modern gear and is on his third upgrade of the Lampizator DAC - pushing $20K full retail.  We share the same "flavors" towards our endgame, and I love visiting him.  That said, I'm never sad to come home to stream from my PC to my outboard dac.  The super-quiet and revealing Focusrite fully allows me to focus on larger paths to great sound with ample resolution, quiet, dynamics and presentation...easily competing with the big guys.  

Again, I'm simply stating...the final small percentage of improvement in going to world class dacs might be money better spent elsewhere in the system.  Me, I'm always looking for ways to remove UNWANTED distortions and resonances. 

shtr74sims, it appears that you already have decided on a big-boy dac, and that's great!  Bonne chance my audio friend.  More Peace, Pin