jimmy2615.....hey, just razzing you in a good hearted way and I get exactly what you're saying. I'll bet among us guys that are really into this stuff that we might only get it right 50% of the time. The bottom line is no playback system will duplicate all the nuances of the perfect live performance. But it is also true that all high end playback systems will likely impart their own particular sound signatures that will be different. It then comes down to what different flavor do you like?? I suspect we'll agree there are many hypothetical very high end audiophile systems that are sonically quite different, yet either of us might well be able to live with any one of them, because there are varying degrees of what constitutes good sound. I know the hard-azz purists may think I'm wimping out here. But honestly, all that matters is whether the gear we choose to assemble into our rigs provides each of us with a sound signature that is pleasing, that makes us want to keep listening.
|
|
@jymc that’s funny, you’re right of course. I didn’t realize it when I wrote it how that could be interpreted; telling the difference in a test between two different things 50% of the time is not doing so good! What I meant is that I could tell the difference on some of the recordings and not in others. That’s what I was referring to in the final sentence of the post, about musical selection.
|
jimmy2615 - Good review. I agree with much of your analyses. EXCEPT, you shoot yourself in the foot at the very end with the phrase suggesting you could "GUESS WHICH DAC CORRECTLY 50% OF THE TIME". That is NO mean feat my friend
|
https://weiss.ch/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/White-paper-on-the-DAC50x-4ch.pdf
Here is the White Paper on the unit. I've the upgraded unit. Life changing, no. Definitive upgrade, yes. More to the upgrade than just two more chips. Best of luck with your decision.
|
Just to add to this thread and agree with the OP in that I also stopped with Weiss. Very pleased with my Helios.
|
Is The Weiss 501 DAC Mk 2 upgrade worth the effort? What benefits dies it claim to provide? I am uninterested in 4 channel. What else might it do?
Thanks.
|
@mclinnguy Got it. As far as what Daniel Weiss said: maybe you indicated that you have a streamer you want to use, so he didn’t mention the built-in streamer.
It’s interesting he prefers USB over AES because of the fundamental difference I’ve mentioned earlier: USB input uses clocks on the Weiss, whereas AES/SPDIF input uses clocks on the streaming source.
|
I honestly have done zero reading about I2S. My version of K50 only has I2S out via hdmi, not ethernet. The CEO of Antipodes Mark Jenkins states the AES is the best output. He did not specify DAC exceptions. Only recently they have upgraded the USB using a mix of external and internal technologies which is now said to have "closed the gap to the other outputs". Mine has not been upgraded yet so the "AES is best" statement definitely applies.
Additionally, when I posed the question of which input to use on the 501 to Daniel Weiss without specifying which streamer used he said: "USB if it works. Else AES, or spdif are fine" He didn’t even suggest ethernet in. (?)
|
@mclinnguy Very interesting: thanks for sharing, and congrats on your K50!
Actually, I think your comment about how much is due to the difference between the internal renderers of the Weiss vs. K50, vs. how much is due to just getting the Macbook out of the system, is quite relevant. If I understood @verdantaudio correctly, he was referring to still using LAN (not AES) from the K50/K41, so as to utilize the superior I2S synchronization of the Weiss renderer with the DAC.
A simple experiment in your situation would be to test LAN vs. AES from the K50 into the Weiss.
|
Well, my server search is over. I now have an Antipodes K50 fronting the Weiss 501. Is it better? Absolutely. @verdantaudio had stated it was "a step up" from the internal renderer. I honestly don’t know how much is due to the renderer of the K50 vs. the Weiss, but I can say using my Macbook Pro as a Roon core to the Weiss renderer compared to the K50 as core/renderer to the Weiss DAC is more than "a step up", it is 2 or 3 steps up. More detail, resolution, and yet it is smoother and richer. And this is with Roon- squeeze, an Antipodes onboard app, sounds like it has more resolution still, but I only have a few hours comparing.
This is using a Jorma AES from the K50 to the 501. I guess I don’t need those DSD tracks anymore.
So @atriya I still don’t know what a 5-7K streamer will do. I also don’t know what other streamers sound like. I wish I could say I demo’ed the N20 vs. the Grimm vs. K50 vs. Pulsar etc., but for someone who lives many hours from the nearest large city, and being in Canada, that is virtually impossible. I spent many dozens of hours reading every review and posters posts' in the past several weeks, Even if I visited dealers how valuable would it be to listen to different streamers in different setups in different environments, over a 3 week period? Honestly, I really wanted a Grimm, but my system having neutral components I felt I needed a little more weight and richness in my system, and it has been reported by more than a few sources that was the primary difference between the Grimm and the K50. Both have a 5 year warranty. Aurender has a 2 year warranty. Another reason I ruled out Aurender is no Roon- I do like using Roon.
The beauty of the Antipodes is not only a 5 year warranty, but I can upgrade it to the latest version for a few thousand, and the 5 year warranty resets. Wonderful.
Another large step closer to musical nirvana- never would have thought redbook resolution level streaming could sound so close to live music. Like Linn always said: "source first".
|
Congratulations on finding the DAC that’s right for you. I feel like the selection of DACs now is so great that it’s like getting an Ice cream cone at your local Ice cream place. With so many flavors available, you can pick your favorite one, but so many taste good as well.
|
Congrats on your end-game DAC find. My end-game DAC is the Ayre Acoustics QX-5 twenty DAC/ streamer!!!
|
@ALL.. Just re-read this entire thread.... Agon at it's best..Great info, no sniping, Snoopy sigh.
@lalitk And lastly, if you have not explored yet; Ethernet optimization by way of passive filtering and better LAN cables leading into your Weiss 501 would further enhance your streaming experience.
And how. Amen.
|
@verdantaudio
My experience is no…not because the clock in the Weiss is so good but more that the internal I2S connection provides superior clock synchronization. If you look at the pinout for proper i2s implementations the clock is synchronized in both directions and as a result, performance is better than what you get over any other synchronous connection.
My advice is always focus on the best connection to the device where you can. With a 501/502 that is Ethernet.
i have not messed with i2s on anything other than the denafrips dacs, but this comment from scott confirms my experience with the weiss
thanks scott, and happy new year to you
|
|
My experience is no…not because the clock in the Weiss is so good but more that the internal I2S connection provides superior clock synchronization. If you look at the pinout for proper i2s implementations the clock is synchronized in both directions and as a result, performance is better than what you get over any other synchronous connection.
My advice is always focus on the best connection to the device where you can. With a 501/502 that is Ethernet.
|
@verdantaudio Thanks, but my concern is more about the input type: i.e., SPDIF from a mid-level streamer vs. LAN input from a server using the internal Weiss renderer.
The point of this concern is that the clocks are different. In the former case the streamer clock is used (embedded in the SPDIF stream). In the latter case the Weiss’ clocks are used.
In a way, the question boils down to: is it possible that the "femto" clocks in a mid-level streamer could outperform the clocks inside the Weiss? I think this is at least reasonable to wonder, since Weiss Engineering provides no information on the clocks used inside the DAC501/502. In fact I asked Daniel Weiss directly, but he didn’t provide a clear answer, perhaps because he doesn’t want the information to be public.
|
So…my experience with streamers is that mid level units are good. Key is, do you like the app from a lot of these companies and is the app stable, etc…. Auralic seems pretty good but, like anything, newer is better. These things don’t age that well. That said, there is a relatively hot brand that I am hearing is having horrible app stability issues so it can cut both ways.
if, alternatively, you want to run Roon, Audirvana, etc… an external server is great and routing it through a clock is wise. Just make sure it is some form of Unix base and avoid Mac Mini’s. I did a NUC build and it was relatively easy and Roon had good instructions for installing ROCK. I would not recommend for a person who struggles with IT stuff but if you are not intimidated by IT, it was not that hard.
|
@verdantaudio Would you say that $2-3k is better spent on a custom built server with a OXCO-clocked LAN card for feeding the internal renderer of the Weiss, rather than a "middle" range SPDIF streamer like a Eversolo DMP-A8 or Auralic G1.1? These do have "femto" clocks.
Super-high-end streamers like the Antipodes products you mentioned are out of budget for me, and now I’m not so sure if smaller amounts of money are better spent on optimizing the LAN input to the Weiss, than getting a cheaper streamer to use the SPDIF input.
|
@mclinnguy But, he was probably doing USB into the Weiss from the Rendu. This is important, since USB and LAN inputs use the Weiss clocks, whereas SPDIF and AES inputs use the streamer clocks. The Rendu can only do USB.
|
@atriya Actually looked back in this thread and mistercrash did try a Rendu into it- this is a $5k streamer with built in power supply if I’m not mistaken:
"To answer another question: I’ve compared the Weiss as a Roon endpoint + DAC vs. a Sonore Signature Rendu SE as an endpoint with the Weiss as the DAC. The differences were very slight, but I barely preferred the Sonore."
Looks like it would very surprising if a lesser streamer could add anything.
|
@mclinnguy Thanks for the review and info. Unless @mistercrash has had experience with external streamers into the Weiss, I think I'll pull the trigger on the Eversolo DMP-A8. Reason: of all the streaming options mentioned, this is the cheapest ($2k), while still being at least comparable to more expensive options (according to general opinion). A good way to test if external streaming has any positive impact.
|
I'll provide a link for that review: Helios
I know a fellow who owned all three of these units at the same time, and did a good comparison of them- I hope @mistercrash doesn't mind me posting this from another forum: perhaps he could comment here and see if he agrees with the reviewers impressions? Wondering also if he has compared any streamers into the Weiss?
I ended up ordering a Weiss Helios. I got it earlier this week, and I decided that I was going to set up the ultimate blind test of the Weiss DACs this weekend:
1. I ordered a passive XLR switch from Amazon. 3 sets of inputs and 3 sets of outputs.
2. I ordered a few sets of Grimm TPR XLR cables. All were the same 2m length and used the same Grimm TPR cable with Neutrik connectors. I already had a pair straight from the manufacturer but ordered two more from Geistnote. Each set had one cable with a black ring and one with a colored ring (blue, orange, or red).
3. I hooked all three up to the same network switch using Blue Jeans Cat6 ethernet cables and plugged them in using generic power cords. I plugged one set of XLR cables into each DAC and connected them to the switch.
4. I used a pair of Grimm SQM cables to output from the switch to my Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV amp. I used my Stax SR-007MkI headphones to listen.
5. I made sure all DACs were using the latest firmware and bypassed DSP. They were all set to headphone output with no attenuation.
6. I tried running a few sample songs in Roon and adjusted the volume of the DACs until they seemed comparable. This meant turning the Helios down to -7.5 dB and turning the 4ch down to -1.0 dB. Fortunately, Roon allows you to group streamers together, so I could send the same song to all of them simultaneously. This volume adjustment was done by ear so there may have been some variances and it wasn't possible to match the volume at all frequencies. Having done this, I stopped for the night.
7. The next day, I unplugged the inputs to the switch and asked my wife to plug them back in whatever order she wanted. I left the room while she did that. She also put a towel over the switch so I couldn't see which cables were connected to which input.
8. I loaded up Roon, grouped all of the streamers together, and started playing music. I tried listening to songs all the way through, then switching inputs, but I also switched inputs on the fly when I wanted to hear differences in particular passages. For the purposes of my notes, they were simply #1, #2, and #3.
#1 was very clear and clean with a ton of detail. It seemed to handle complex passages very easily and had a great handle on the bass. Highs could be sparkly but were never strident. It felt full and immersive. It was definitely the most forward sound of the three but wasn't overbearing.
#2 was not as detailed as #1. In particular, the bass notes seemed a little less well-defined and sounded slightly more muffled. It was still pleasant to listen to, but I found that I didn't like it as much as #1.
#3 was very close to #1, but was a hair short. Again, it was very detailed, but it was slightly softer in the lower registers (though it was better than #2 was). It had a direct and balanced sound that was impressive.
Overall, I found that I liked #1 > #3 >> #2. None of the sounded bad, but #1 and #3 definitely sounded better to me than #2 did.
I called my wife in to get her thoughts as well. While she had plugged the XLR cables into the switch, she didn't know which cable corresponded to which DAC (and she doesn't care about gear so I don't believe she would have an expectation bias). I left her to listen and a few minutes later, she came out of the room and said that she preferred #2. When I asked her why, she said that it sounded the clearest. This may have been the first time that she and I had a different ranking of results when I set up a blind test.
Having gathered her opinion and mine, I removed the towel and revealed which was which:
#1 was the DAC501-4ch
#2 was the DAC501
#3 was the Helios
Now for the caveats:
1. I bought the Helios new (which is the first time I've bought a new, non-demo, non-open box audio piece in 17 years). While I did run it a little bit over the week, it doesn't have more than 30 hours on it. Perhaps it needs more time to break in.
2. From past experience with the Weiss DACs, the digital volume control does not sound as good as the analog volume control on the headphone amp. Digital volume controls are lossy, so enacting them can cause the sound to suffer. The Helios had the highest level of output and required a -7.5 dB adjustment to match the levels of the other two, which I believe was a notable handicap. The DAC501-4ch also required a slight -1.0 dB volume reduction, but it wasn't nearly as substantial as the Helios.
|
For those interested, there’s a review of the newer Weiss Helios DAC (their “flagship”) in Soundstage Australia. Of note, the reviewer compares all of the current Weiss DACs’ overall sound qualities (including the 500 series 2 channel vs 4 channel). It’s one person’s opinion of course, and taken FWIW from published reviews. What I really like about it though is the way he compares them using a spider web chart. Very interesting, and in my view a better way to compare sounds than the usual melee of adjectives and hyperbole!
|
@greg_f @mclinnguy I haven't actually tried any of the streamers yet, so all this is just speculation, and hoping to find someone who has tried a few and can advise if they outperform the onboard streamer in the Weiss.
Btw my Weiss is already the "4ch" version. I had the older version in for demo before my purchase, and I do feel the 4ch is an improvement, though I never heard them side by side.
|
@atriya I am positive a different streamer can improve the sound quality of the 501, I just don't know how much one has to spend for this to happen. 🤔 If it is the form of the Antipodes K50, K41, Aurender N20, Playback Edelweiss, Grimm, that 432evo that is often pushed by one outfit here, or Innuos Pulsar, I think I still have some lower hanging fruit to pick first. If a noticeable improvement over the well-engineered streamer in the Weiss can be had for a mid-line streamer price- Aurender N200, Zen mk3, Lumin, Auralic or the Rose you suggested I guess there is only one way to find out: we get one and try it! And yes that is the reason I queried some of the owners of this wonderful DAC to see what their experiences are. There are also plenty of other options here that are not mentioned much on this website but are popular in Europe: Naim, Linn etc.
And then there is the option to spend 2-3K and get the more recent Sabre chips inserted in this unit. I know at least one owner here who stated that it wasn't the best money spent- correct me if I am wrong @jjss49
Choices in life are good, but sometimes it makes it difficult. I just searched "streamer" on hifi shark and got 2296 for sale. Overwhelming.
Perspective here though: I am getting wonderful fidelity- if my music never gets better than what I have now I am still very happy and fortunate, but alas, I am an audiophile, this is my hobby, so I will keep plugging along. 🎶
|
@atriya
Have you actually tried the SPDIF or the AES output of the Lumin U2, the Hifi Rose RS130 or the Eversolo DMP- A8? I would be interested to hear which one you prefer. Also the Innuos Zen does not have SPDIF or AES outputs, only the ZenMini has.
|
@mclinnguy Your question about streamers comes at a time when I have been wondering if an external streamer can improve the Weiss, especially when using the SPDIF/AES inputs, since using these uses the clocks on the streamer, instead of the clocks on the Weiss (which are used for LAN & USB inputs).
However, the Grimm & Antipodes products mentioned above are out of budget for me. Around the $5k mark are the Lumin U2 and the HiFi Rose RS130. Even cheaper ($2k) is the Eversolo DMP-A8, which many say punches above its price bracket. All of these have high-quality clocking for their SPDIF outputs. There are also servers like the Zen Mk3 series from Innuous, which have SPDIF outputs.
As far as using the internal streamer of the Weiss is concerned: previously I was using an ethernet connection directly from a laptop's built-in ethernet port, or from the router. I upgraded this to an OXCO-clocked LAN card made by Afterdark (JCAT also makes a similar product: the NET Card XE). However, I did not perceive any major improvement. It could be since the LAN card is still attached to a regular PC, and taken as a whole is not a dedicated audio device like the Antipodes K41.
|
@mclinnguy Any desire to try an MU2
Yahsureyoubetcha. My spies tell me they are all spoken for. As for all the "adjustments" the Weiss 501 makes, I have not messed with them save the vinyl record one. My spies also tell me the MU2 is all it is propertied to be, a streamer, DAC and pre amp. I like some one box solutions, finding separates usually better but that old rule may be moot.
|
@wsrrsw thanks for the response. That word magic has been used a few times from those with the MU1 :) Actually that vinyl dsp is one I haven't used yet- I haven't felt the need- nothing sounds too bright to me yet, but I'll give it a try just to see. I did use the room eq and when the test tone was perfectly flat to my ear I didn't like it, It killed the bass- I found it took too much lower level energy away. If that is a ruler flat frequency response it doesn't sound good. I don't have normal speakers though, so that might have something to do with it. I played around with it with three nodes and have reduced them to -2 and -4 db, and then gone back and forth enabling eq and disabling it, and for the majority of tracks it levels out the bass responses without removing it.
Any desire to try an MU2?
|
@mclinnguy As you asked. Between the MU1 and Weiss 501 is a Cardas Clear AES/EBU. The AES is essential for the magic and synergy to happen. Both the streamer and the DAC have 聖Hiijiri power cables into an Audioquest Niagara 7000. We have poor power here and the 7000 is a great help.
There are scads of AES cables and I suppose they will make a difference but I am happy w/ the Cardas.
Have you tired adding in a bit of vinyl emulaiton on the 501? Nice stuff. I haven't tried any of the other filters.
|
@mclinnguy I have only used the Antipodes K50 and Oladra with the Weiss. Both are a step up from the internal renderer. That said, I believe the best performance for price comes from an Antipodes K41 and using the on-board renderer. It is tough to beat. That is what you get when you go ethernet direct from either the K50 or Oladra.
Below that, any server that runs Roon core is typically pretty good and I am beginning to experiment with some switches and other items like the Innuos Phoenix reclocker and the EtherRegen stuff.
|
Chris Romeo built all of my IC and PC. Direct ethernet. Weiss 501 DAC upgraded to 4 channel. That's all. Cheers
|
@celtic66 I have read about those, and hope to try one. They are up there in price to the same level as the Hurricane or Snake River's, which are also on my list- Hurricane reportedly being opposite end of the tonal spectrum. Did you build it yourself?
Direct ethernet into the Weiss then? No fancy internet gadgets?
|
@mclinnguy I run a loom of Furutech 4.1 terminated with the best Fururtech's best connectors for my power cables. They are fast, detailed and dynamic. celtic66
|
A year and a half or more after owning this DAC I have some more observations that might prove useful to those interested. They come in the way of moving to a new home, as well as continuing to compare the Weiss against other DACs. First off, I continue to be impressed by this DAC.
I plan to keep mine at least this long as well. Judging by what my ears are telling me anyway. I purposely waited to post regarding my new to me 501 for a few weeks just to go beyond the initial excitement period of a few to several days- well I I am still excited by this acquisition! I didn't trial it, just did plenty of reading of reviews, this one included (nice thread- thank you 🙏 ) , and reading between the lines as well. I like this sort of sound compared to something a little 'woolier', and the previous player I had was also ESS chipped- the sonic resemblance is evident.
I picked up a used T+A DAC 8 DSD to play DSD files. ..... On PCM files the Weiss is clearly superior. On DSD files the T+A pulls ahead, almost to the same degree the Weiss is better on PCM files (the Weiss does play DSD files but coverts them to PCM and resamples, like everything, to around 195 kHz if I understand their literature correctly).
I know exactly what you mean: At first I played regular and high res Qobuz tracks and heard quite a few pleasing differences compared to my previous DAC- not so much in what I concentrated on first- treble, but more in the bass definition, and the soundstage wasn't much deeper or wider, but the delineation and solidity of images were noticed. Of course new low level details on very familiar tracks then emerged. Then I thought to myself I have got to try some DSD tracks! this is going to be incredible! and I was disappointed -as they weren't a noticeable improvement over the Qobuz tracks like my previous ESS9018 player. Even though both are based on the same chip the Weiss seems to be engineered to be a good (understatement) redbook and DXD oversampler player, while the exaSound was designed to be a better DSD player? I don't have a good knowledge of the topologies of digital but that is what my ears are telling me. Interesting also that using Roon I see that a 256DSD file to 501 is first is sampled down to DSD128 or 5.645 MHz (player maximum) then to PCM 176.4 kHz, then to 195.312 kHz (for the ess chips) so lots going on. Then the volume shows a green dot for "high quality" as I use the digital volume out. The exaSound had all purple dots while also using digital out (?) I haven't put the exaSound back in to see if DSD on it sounds better or not, I don't plan on going back and forth between DAC's as I am quite content with the Weiss, so just an observation more than a complaint. I find I am playing whole albums now much more so than individual tracks with the previous DAC.
Question for those who own this Weiss 501: @jerryg123 @jjss49 @celtic66 @tuberist @phastm3 @w123ale @gerihifi @objktnble @eddiechanghk what is connected to your Weiss- Power cable choice? Supplemental streamers feeding it? other filters/switches? @atriya already stated his setup above- I know at least one person commented on their satisfaction with the Grimm MU1- @wsrrsw
@verdantaudio have you experimented anymore with different streamers feeding the Weiss 501?
Personally I have Cisco/optical/etherregen powered by Plixir BDC/AS supra ethernet feeding this along with a Zavfino Silver Dart power cord. Haven't unplugged anything yet to play around with what it sounds like without the filter, or a different cord, don't want to touch anything it sounds so good :) But eventually I will. I also think I might eventually be in the market for a streamer if it makes sense -you know, pay 10K for 1% improvement audiophile sense 😀
|
@jimmy2615
Thanks Jimmy, I was wondering if the new T+A DAC 200’s analog volume attenuator would negate any advantage the Weiss 501 possibly had.
Considering the T+A DAC 8 is an older generation, and you feel it is competitive with the Weiss on PCM when used amp direct, one presumes the DAC 200 would be even better.
|
I haven’t heard the 200 series - Steve Huff reviewed it and said they sound the same. It wasn’t clear though if he still had the 501 on hand or he was going off memory. That said, just to make a logical point, if they sound the same, then at least in the case of Weiss, having a linear power supply makes no difference. The 500 has an LPS whereas the 200 does not, and Weiss sells an outboard LPS to add on. Also with the 200 series obviously you need an external streamer. Whereas with the 500 series it has been noted by many that the Ethernet input is the superior input for it. Point being that if that is true, some moderately priced streamer or computer used to input to the 200 DAC should not be as refined as the 500 used via its Ethernet input. Hard to say. But it would seem overall that the 200 series is a tremendous value. And if you buy into the LPS being important one could always buy another aftermarket LPS that wasn’t as costly as the Weiss’.
|
i believe the 501/502 should sound identical to the 204 if none of the additional features are used
weiss in switzerland is very responsive to questions if one just pings them
|
Streaming, headphone jack and digital processing aside,
How different are the Weiss 204 and 501 in sound quality?
Will the 204 chipset also be updated?
|
A year and a half or more after owning this DAC I have some more observations that might prove useful to those interested. They come in the way of moving to a new home, as well as continuing to compare the Weiss against other DACs. First off, I continue to be impressed by this DAC. Having made a major household move with a complete change to my system, not only did the Weiss survive but displayed different positive characteristics in this different system. In my last system, which included top end Luxman separates and Harbeth 40.2 speakers, and eventually Harbeth 30.2s with Luxman or Line Magnetic integrateds, in a somewhat overdamped room, I valued the Weiss’ incisiveness, which brought structure and a solid foundation to the system. In my new system which has a more lively room, and now with Focal Kanta speakers, the Weiss is extremely natural sounding and does not have that digital ‘glare’ compared to lesser DACs. It’s still incisive but it’s the naturalness that no other DAC I’ve had can compare with. And in this more lively system it is a very impressive and obvious quality. Juxtaposed with the benefits noted in my last system which was less bright perhaps, this DAC displays an impressive ability to work in different systems.
I picked up a used T+A DAC 8 DSD to play DSD files. I have many SACDs which I have burned to .dsf files as well as some DSD files I have purchased through the years. The T+A DAC has a dedicated 1-bit converter just for DSD (as far as I know only Bricasti offers a similar converter; perhaps there are others, but otherwise this is a unique feature) in addition to a separate 4-burr brown chip converter chain for PCM files. On PCM files the Weiss is clearly superior. On DSD files the T+A pulls ahead, almost to the same degree the Weiss is better on PCM files (the Weiss does play DSD files but coverts them to PCM and resamples, like everything, to around 195 kHz if I understand their literature correctly). Also, the T+A has a separate analog volume control. Running both DACs directly into the NAD M23 amplifier, the T+A volume control is again very clearly superior than the Weiss’ in my experience, to the point of possibly negating the Weiss’ superior sound on PCM files. It takes a preamp (either an SPL Elektor or Primaluna Evo 400 in my case) to showcase the differences (the Weiss being clearer and more natural) between the two DACs when used just as DACs.
|
|
Almost everything better than MConnect 🤣
|
I am going to second JPlay. It is solid. Not as stable as Roon on a local server but lightyears better than MConnect. It sounds very good. I have tested it with my Helios which recently arrived and it is not as good as my Oladra but better than some less expensive devices I have.
|
Instead of using Roon try the new JPlay app for iOS. It just sounds better than any other UPnP app. It can play your local NAS content or all the streaming subscription stuff like Tidal/Qobuzz e.t.c
|
|
the weiss has an internal streamer function
|
Was the question asked on this thread about whether the Weiss actually has a built-in streamer or not, ever definitively answered?
As that question noted, though the Weiss is Roon Ready, the upstream server could be performing the function of the source/streamer instead of the Weiss.
I know that some posts here have subjectively compared using the Weiss via Roon vs. with some dedicated streamers, and concluded that the Weiss sounds only a hair behind.
I am using Roon on a laptop. The laptop is directly connected via an ethernet cable to a DAC502, with a Pink Faun LAN isolator in between (no switches, routers, etc). Now using the Weiss' Roon Ready mode to play audio from Roon.
In this setup, I assume it is the Weiss that is acting as the streamer and not the laptop? Which is to say, the quality of the laptop & quality of power to the laptop, etc., should not matter to the sound? Or would I benefit from instead connecting the laptop via ethernet to a dedicated streamer, and then connect the streamer to the Weiss via USB?
|
@agisthos I don’t use the digital volume control much since I have a preamp. I did test it out alone with the Benchmark AHB2 amp, compared to the AHB2 amp with the matching LA4 preamp, using XLRs in all cases. I also have a Primaluna preamp. In all cases I always find that I prefer the preamp in the system as opposed to just the DAC. That said, the differences are pretty small. As mentioned by someone else earlier in the thread I believe, the volume on this DAC is ‘lossy’ - you do lose some bits. But overall I think it is pretty good.
I agree with you on the chip upgrade. Presumably if Weiss is doing it they must think it’s better, but I’d be surprised if it was that different. People always want the latest and greatest…. I’ve heard the newer chips, I had an Oppo 205 also at one point, and the Lumin, implementation is everything as has been mentioned. Those products weren’t better just for having the newer chipsets.
While I’m here I’ll just note that going on 8 months I still love this DAC, haven’t tried any others and plan to stick with it for the long haul.
|
