D'agostino amplifiers: where's the beef?

Beef is in the margins

At AXPONA 2018 I talked to a guy from D'Agostino during a slow period on the last day. He told me how expensive and difficult it was to make the copper heat sinks and how they had to replace a bunch of them under warranty from early in the production run because the lacquer would flake off. The copper pieces have to be machined and coated within minutes because copper instantly starts to corrode. They could only find one machine shop with the capability to meet their standards and I'm sure that shop charged a hefty price. I was a little surprised about him being so open about the cost of a purely cosmetic feature of the amp.

I've seen the Momentums at a couple of shows and they really are beautiful. The term "audio jewelry" totally applies to these amps and I'm sure a significant part of their cost is the casework. If I could afford them I would seriously consider buying them just as I would seriously consider an exotic car. I currently own a KSA 300S that I'm spending $3K to recap and renew so it will be good for another 20 years. It weighs 185 lbs and in my amp most of the copper is in the transformer instead of the heat sinks.

The Momentums sounded good but so do a lot of other amps. Dan has targeted a niche where appearance is a major selling feature of his top level amps. If you want an amp that has both beautiful casework and very expensive components D'Agostino has come up with the Relentless. For $250,000 you can have it all!

Lets get the Johnny Cash record CRY CRY CRY DUDES!!!!!

it's not like these amps sell in great numbers...they sound great, and there are many who don't mind spending a few extra thousand to have them look great too...

The High End of five (and six!) figure components is really a fantasyland for the money-to-burn crowd! Check out the cover of the latest TAS and those Wilson speakers! 

     Many luxury products are designed, produced and marketed based on the well founded belief that their customers have a surplus of money and a scarcity of sense.  
     The majority of us are constantly required to maintain some semblance of an equilibrium between our money and our sense of what to spend it on.  The very wealthy have no such restrictions, possess the freedom to purchase products based on emotions that a surplus of money bestows and certainly have no responsibility of explaining their purchases to anyone .
     Money equals freedom in direct proportion, the more you have the freer you become and this freedom extends to the ability to buy wisely or stupidly.  I'm pro-freedom, I admire and respect it and would definitely enjoy a bit more of it.

You go girls!
Tim

We all know that looks & name play a factor in pricing.  That is a given.  

Something I don’t have a handle on is the R&D that goes into these components.  That has to influence pricing.  Given that major dealers are upgrading components practically each year, there must be quite a bit of R&D and testing that gets factored into costs,.

M400’s have an 1800 VA Ultralinear power transformer!  400 800 1600 W/Ch @ 8 4 2 Ohms respectively....uh, that sounds pretty damn beefy to me son 🥩

I like the steam-punk style of his amps. Never heard one and probably never will. Often we get caught up in the marketing of parts inside the boxes and parts can make a difference, and several brands make a big deal about this and push it in their marketing. But are those parts put together to produce the sound you like? If not...do the parts matter?  I like to get the best sound for money spent...that said, buy what you want and enjoy it! We will all leave this planet one day and you sure can’t take it with you!😀

That's slam this computer can't spell very well LOL

I prefer 'base (?) slime'.

I heard a couple of the D'Agostino's running a giant pair of Magico speakers at Axpona in 2019. They were set up at the end of a deadend hallway surround on 2 sides by glass, and they made it sound like a live concert. It was one of the best sounding setups at the show, and the most amazing part was that it was in the back of a hallway, not even a room. Yea, crazy expensive, but sound amazing.
-Geoff

...as for the amps...buy a vintage GTO, or a Lambo...

Boat floats....;)

...as for pedigree Scot rams @ that price level...do they throw in a pair of tall boots?

(...those of you that recognise that inference need to get out more...;) *L*)

I’ve heard the d’Agostino in München with S.Faber.. nice to see, but not to hear. Very expensive for that kind of sound. It’s beautiful to see, but that’s it. I propose CH , Nagra, Soulution , Wavac !! Ear, Jadis , Jeff Rowland. Speakers: Ilumnia Magister, Magico, Keff muon...

@erik_squires - the troll thread comment, my sides 😂😂😂

Someone else, besides me, bringing up the PuriFi amp topology as a giant killer. This is my actual dream thread. I’m gonna have to really think abt my next posts.

One can critique the price-to-value ratio of an expensive product on an audiophile forum, right? That’s not ad hominem; that’s what is supposed to happen on an audiophile forum. No need to defend rich people’s “right” to waste their money. They already have all the cards they need to win, anyway. 

ebm
Lets not bad rap Dan his stuff looks and sounds wonderful.If you can not afford it don't give it a negative rap.HELLO!!!

It looks like an invite from the OP for others to share their thoughts and opinions. Should they not be free to do this? I don't believe he asked for positive thoughts only.

That's slam this computer can't spell very well LOL

I personally like the Sim audio amps. The 860A is very good. I find it slightly on the warm side and very neutral and the base slime coming out of this baby is unbelievable.

The jewelry and status cars are a good example.  You think those companies like leaving money on the table? If you could charge that much, you probably would. 

emb: look at the specs of the purifi and then the prce

Pop corn is popping and butter melting.....

In the audio high-end world, amplifiers ands dacs are the most overpriced. Speakers less so.

You pay for the fancing casing, you pay for the big suitcase, you pay for the prestige the brand tries to sell you..., etc.

Class D will slaughter D'DAGOSTINO amps are you JOKING not on this planet.

Class D Purifi will slaughter the $20K+ amps. It's just a matter of time. Perhaps if someone gold plaed one...

The OP never said anything in the initial post about the sound quality.

So what it's expensive?  So is a lot of other stuff out there.  Cars, clothes, airplanes, yachts, cameras, Art, and don't get me started on watches.  Oh man!

How does it stack up (sound) in an A/B comparison with other similar quality and costs amps?  That is the test.  Don't change anything but the particular equipment to be tested.

I've heard these and other D'agostino products many times.  I can tell you that they are top quality sound.  He wasn't held back by the issues he encountered at Krell.  

Yeah, they are expensive.  So is Boulder, and a lot of other audio equipment out there.  Everything here is relative.  I don't even discuss the price of my equipment with people that don't know about or appreciate sound quality.  They think I am crazy probably.  But they have no problem distinguishing between a Subaru (nice, by the way) and a Mercedes S-class or Bentley.  But go buy a Patek Phillippe watch and you are on the far side of nuts to them.  Even an Omega watch may be too much.

So, it's all relative.

enjoy

Was running around looking for a good troll thread...  gonna put this one on my maybe list.

As I said I'm a fan of Dan's stuff - when it was obvious why it was expensive.

And I agree his new amps sound good as well.

Just where's the beef?

The parts inside these new amps are modest for what they cost.  That's all.  And I'm wondering if others have taken note as well.

Is calling a spade a spade such a bad thing?

Lets not bad rap Dan his stuff looks and sounds wonderful.If you can not afford it don't give it a negative rap.HELLO!!!

I'd rather have an old Krell and a new Porsche Boxster or C8 Corvette for the same money.

Only one of those is worth any money at all.

While I don't disagree with anything you're saying, I also know that yg acoustics uses D’Agostino amplifiers in their in-factory listening room. Given that they could afford to have anything in there, I do believe those amplifiers can be a preferred option under some use cases and there is more to the brand than bling. Unfortunately I've never gotten to hear any A/B's vs competition.

D’Agostino is a brand that I believe appeals to an a’phile who primarily is concerned with the look of the case...and not so much the total SQ. While his amps and preamps don’t seem to fall down in the SQ department anywhere, I think they can be bettered by a number of competing products at equal and lower price points. You will not get the ’bling’ factor that his products are known for ( fancy casing, large dials and gauges etc) but you will get superior sound in some instances.
IME, High end is solidly in the camp of price high/ high looks. This is a marketing decision based on an obvious knowledge of who the current high end/high price consumer is...and more importantly what he expects to spend for the ’look’.
Your older KSA50 and KSA 250 were from a period when function was more important than form, now it is swinging the other way, IMO.

That's cheap compared to that Scottish pedigreed ram that sold recently at auction for $450K! 

state of the art/excellent/good/high quality are all notions that exist in the eye of the beholder

as is expensive/high value/smart money spent

as is new/modern/interesting/sexy

but the thing about money and time is... money is important, till you run out of time, then all the money in the world can’t buy you more time

d’agostino is audio jewelry, good sounding, great looking, if you are into the looks and have fat wallet

but given the above, who are we to criticize who makes and buys stuff that seems ridiculous to some of us