Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

Thanks guys! I already had a casual listen to the A3 driven by Hegel 390 streaming Tidal off internal dac. Playing Norah Jones Come Away with Me album. What stood out was how wonderfully coherent the sound was. Slightly warmish with lots of air. Great focus. Norah's head was in between the speakers. The American distributor says there is a owner near me so when his Reno's on his home are done he will try to arrange a demo for me of the Cube Audio. Magico at first listen lacks tonal richness on say a piano. But have to listen more.

@charles1dad  What's crazy is that Nelson not only makes the commercial First Watt amps, but also releases (for free) additional FW-like designs for the diy community.  I was just reading about a single-ended 8W SIT amp that he's going to release kits for soon:  https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/357517-simple-se-sit-amp.html

I like this quote from him regarding the design:  "I tried to make it more complicated and obscure, but it's just not in me."  

Just more evidence in favor of the combination of sensitive speakers and low wattage amplifiers in my book.

Lots of talk about First Watt but also consider the Bakoon 13R which imo works excellently with Cube Nenuphar’s 

I've only heard superlative reviews for the Bakoon products, would love to hear one.

Cal,
Absolutely right about the non Commercial DIY offerings. A few years ago Nelson Pass designed a push pull version of the of the stereo S.I.T. 2 at 35 watts pure class A circuit. A generous Audiogon member loaned me his for a period of 3 weeks.

This was a really good sounding amplifier and actually one of the best transistor amplifiers I’ve heard. Just terrific with my Coincident speakers. Directly compared to my Frankenstein MK II 300b SET there were very similar characteristics. Switched the amplifiers twice over the 3 week period for direct listening comparisons.

I could have lived contently (very) with the D.I.Y. S.I.T. 2 amplifier.
But when the SET is put back in the audio system there’s just more 3 dimensional tactile- reach out and touch aura. A bit richer tonality and fuller more fleshed out vibe is present. Ultimately more emotionally engaging . The basic stuff I find that SET simply does better. I know however that some listeners would prefer the other excellent amplifier.

@toetapaudio I’ve never heard the Bakoon amplifier but reviews and word of mouth say they’re quite splendid. I don’t doubt they could go toe to toe with the First Watt (F.W.) No question the F.W. built by the esteemed Nelson Pass are far more known within the High End audio community and thus mentioned more often.
Charles

I agree--have read only superlative things about the Bakoon13R no matter what it drives.

But I have heard the following amps driving my Nenuphars (listed in order of preference):

1. FW SIT-1 
2. FW SIT-3
3. Tektron One 2A3

All with both the Shindo Giscours and Pass Labs X-32 pre amps.

And what bested all of these by a long chalk? The Vinnie Rossi L2i-se Integrated with the Elrog 300b as DHT in pre amp stage.  I know I've said it before, but since I don't see anyone considering this amp as a Nenuphar driver, I had to put my two cents back in.  Yes, it is $18K but you get both pre and amp end-gamers (for me anyway).  The synergy got even better with a Shunyata Sigma V2 power cord with the L2i-se and then my most recent addition of Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables.  VR now offers 30 day auditions from what I understand.

Upcoming: audition of a Shunyata Alpha V2 XLR interconnect from my TotalDac to the L2i-se.

What sets the VR apart from say the FW SIT-1, which I thought was out of this world and was happy to settle down with permanently?  The VR is more life like, with a big open natural presence that is highly detailed and rich without calling attention to those attributes.  It is a sum-bigger-than-its-parts type component, which I also found true of Shindo amps.(Cortese and GM70).  But it does not have Shindo's undeniable coloration, a subtle sunniness that pervades like a filter.  Nor does the VR have the slightly dark tonal richness of the SIT-1.  It has a natural richness that is even more engaging and a natural timbre that I keep trying to find fault with but can't. People have told me that I'm trying to describe something that takes the best of tubes and merges it with the best of SS.  But no, the combination is better than either and a thing apart.  From biting trumpets to compelling cellos it simply disappears as an electronic component adding no coloration or flavor that I can hear (of course the Nenuphars have a lot to do with this neutrality).  I have often been impressed initially by a component only after extended listening to say, "Ok, it's doing that to the mid-range or this to the bass or this other to highs."  I might like it and live with it for quite awhile.  But it ultimately grows tiresome, adding a sameness to the music.  

Ok, that was more than two cents.
 

My 2 Cents on Bakoon has nothing to do with performance. Their is no dealer network to speak of so you have to pay Full MSRP or VERY close to it. Re-sale value (supply/demand) is horrible based on past "attempted" sales.  The guy in AZ who I think is the importer is a total RICHARD in my book.  So if you look at your audio gear as an "investment" and you dont want to get killed when you eventually flip it the Bakoon is dead in the water.  PASS Labs you can buy new with a 20-30% discount if you know what your doing and you MIGHT lose 10-15% when you ditch it which is acceptable.  50% Loss or more is not.

Well if that's the case in regard to Bakoon , that's quite a handicap to deal with in a highly competitive High End audio marketplace.  Too bad, as I noted above based solely on sound quality criteria it is considered to be  exceptionally good. It seems that the Bakoon deserves a better fate. 
Charles 

Hi Stephen,
Your VR integrated has outperformed formidable competition in your system in direct comparison.  There's no better way to  determine what's best other than actual listening experiences. You've found outstanding synergy in your amplifier and Nenuphar pairing. I think that's fantastic!

Through personal experience I know how superb the Elrog 300b sounds. 
The VR offers easy switching of various DHT tubes. Are you tempted to experiment with other tubes or is the Elrrog so good that you'll leave well enough alone?
Charles 

If am not mistaken you can also purchase the Bakoon 13r direct from the manufacturer.  That might alleviate at least dealing with US importer.

Hi Charles,

That is a good question and one that begs the premise of my post: that the L2i-se has uncanny neutrality since but has a DHT tube pre and what tube is truly neutral?  But to answer your question, I first what to point out that there is scripture on this subject written by Srajan in his review of the VR Signature L2 se pre amp where he thoroughly compares various tubes in DHT mode.  From reading this, the tube I would want to try is a vintage WE 300b--which I think was Srajan's overall preference followed closely by the WE VT52, the Elrog 300b and the EH 50.   Since a pair of WE 300b's go for about the price of the component, I would like to try the WE VT52 and the EH 50 which Srajan said had an "hallucinate" sound stage.  I want to know what that means.  I like big sound stages.  Vinnie's favorite tube is the Takatsuki 300b.

Magico at first listen lacks tonal richness on say a piano. But have to listen more.

Listen again, its lack of coloration, something you don’t hear very often. Once you get it, there is no going back.

Stephen,
I used the Takatsuki 300b in my amplifier for 3 or 4 years and it is superb!
I never bothered with the W,E. Vintage 300b as they were astronomical in price (Takatsuki and Elrog were as far as I was willing to spend ,1800.00 pair range at that time). I did try a pair of W.E. re-issue circa 1990s vintage but was disappointed with them.

I’ve heard various Magico speakers in their Q and S series  (Most experience with the S5). Just my own 2 cents worth, I’d be surprised if the Magico A3 were more ’neutral ’ or more importantly ’natural ’ than the Nenuphar. This is based on nothing more than a personal hunch just  to be clear. I’d relish the opportunity to heard them in a direct comparison. They are by design so remarkably different objectively and really philosophically. Oh would that be a highly interesting listening session.

Charles

@charles1dad Are you using the EMLs these days?

Cal,
Yes all things considered the EML XLS 300b has the best combination of sound quality and great durability and reliability. A  true workhorse tube.
Charles 

I agree Charles! Need to investigate thoroughly as both speakers require different amplification.

As someone who is casually looking for a Bakoon 13r - the resale market is no way a 50% drop. I've seen on average about 1k off from 6k MSRP which is a pretty standard discount in terms of a listing price.

In terms of dealers can't speak to that.

If I purchase a unit new it will likely be through Bakoon themselves. 

@ag3,
If you do purchase a Bakoon 13R  amplifier and have the time (And inclination) would you post your listening impressions? I believe there are folks on this thread who’d be very interested.
Charles

Absolutely. Will do. This is the best thread on agon. Might as well contribute here ! 

For reference I've got the LTA Ultra Linear right now powering some Tannoy Eaton speakers (dual concentric). From the sounds of it in this thread I think it's safe to say the UL is similar to the FW SIT variety (in the ball park). A tube change to some GE model tubes has made this amp exceptional

@ag3_,
Miraculously this thread has avoided agitating trolls, keyboard warriors and rude and disrespectful behavior, what a welcome relief.
The LTA Ultra Linear compared to the Bakoon 13R is very interesting as there’re such distinct differences between them. It’d be fun and informative to hear them driving your Tannoys or the Nenuphars. As this thread has substantiated,  there are numerous good quality amplifiers to consider pairing with the Nenuphars.
Charles

@riaa I'm considering you my new connection. Thanks!

The margins for a dealer vary quite considerably depending on the brand. The margin for Bakoon is so slim that I wouldn’t consider discounting even if I was allowed. There are many products that have over inflated prices, Bakoon isn’t one of them. At £6k for an integrated amp it punches way above its price point in both sound quality and modern design. 

I believe the point has been made, specific to the brand, as well as generally to many brands. Can we move on? Thanks.

riaa:  Which color/finish did you go with for your Nenuphar Minis and what is the current turnaround time for a custom color? Thanks.

Matej Isak / Mono and Stereo review of the Cube Audio Nenuphars:

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2021/01/cube-audio-nenuphar-speakers-review.html

Have yet to see a bad one!  Thanks @david_ten 

Was there mention of associated equipment used in Isak’s review and I just missed it?

@cal3713   Yes and remarkably consistent findings.

@stephendunn  I looked as well. Unfortunately, not. His audio rack does offer clues. : )

I also noticed the absence of identifying associated amplifiers and found that odd given the unique matching considerations for the Nenuphars.  Still overall a good review as I believe the reviewer captured the essence of these exceptionally  special speakers. 

I feel that Srajan Ebaen's 6 Moons review of the Cube Audio Nenuphar is the most compehensive.
1 In depth technical description with ample commentary from the designer/builder. 
2 Effective use of metaphors and analogies (IMHO, I know some don't like his verbose writing style) in his very  detailed subjective listening impressions. 
3 Taking the the time to use multiple/different amplifiers paired with the Nenuphars and then clearly describing each separate pairing. 
4. Comparing the sonic character of the Nenuphars with other familiar speakers he holds  in  high regard in his listening room and review audio system. 
Charles 

@charles1dad  I have emailed Matej requesting information on the amplifier(s) used, etc. I'll post, should I hear from him.

Since we are all wondering about the amps, here is what was communicated in the review:

"Cube Audio Nenuphar was designed from the ground up to provide the best possible matching partner for a low power Class A (minimum 3 watts) tube-based and solid-state amplifiers. For tube amplifiers, Cube Audio recommends such designs based on 2A3, Px4, 45 tubes. I can see many of SET connoisseurs and afficionados' eyes illuminating."

@stephendunn  This review may be of interest to you as Srajan Ebaen mentions going forward with the Linlai 2A3 for his VR linestage. 

https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/linlai2/

David,
Thanks for the link posting. Srajan Ebaen really loves the Elrog 300b and as a former owner I understand why. It’s interesting that an upstart 2A3 impressed Srajan to such a degree. This Lanlai 2A3 is roughly 1/3 The price of the esteemed Elrog..
Charles

David_ten. Thanks for posting that link.  I will keep you posted if I decide to try the Lanlai 2A3–which I probably will. 
I’ve also have been thinking about your taking the Nenuphars off the Townshend Podiums and putting them back on the floor. Do you think the not subtle improvements you heard were partly attributable to lowering driver to a plane closer or exactly ear height?  And—pardon if you’ve mentioned this before—is your floor carpeted, wood or other?

Also appreciate your gentle shepherding to keep this thread on track and still informative to its followers. 

@stephendunn Stephen, good and an important question. NO, regarding:

Do you think the not subtle improvements you heard were partly attributable to lowering driver to a plane closer or exactly ear height?

Suspended hardwood (oak). Seriously suspended as our homes in this part of Louisiana need to be a few feet above the ground. In other words, there is no basement below. There is no carpeting; I have a wool throw / area rug (5’/9’) between the speakers which extends to my seating position.

is your floor carpeted, wood or other?

@stephendunn  Did you experiment?

I’ve also have been thinking about your taking the Nenuphars off the Townshend Podiums and putting them back on the floor.

If you are interested in Nenuphars but you don't think you can afford them, there is an alternative approach, which I took: I purchased just the F10 Neo drivers and had the cabinets built in the US. More details in this thread:
https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2113641

Hi everyone, I've been following this thread closely for a while now.  So much interesting information. My curiosity about the Nenuphars has been though to control after reading all experiences here.  I want to spend some quality time listening and experimenting with them.  I've been a fan of dynamic speakers for a long time and keep hearing about efficient full range and their optimal matching with tubes wich I consider essential for my taste also. My last speakers have been Dynaudio and for most of the time it's been a great experience and a joy to live with. They have been doing all the good things for the longest time now but the Cubes just keeps popping up in my dreams.  My system is pretty basic and straightforward, it  consists of a HD plex fanless computer withthe goodies, a lampizator big 7 dac and a LTA 40i integrated amp. Although the system isn't totaly focused on the powerful side it can handle a good size speaker no problem but I can only imagine going the eficient and simple path root.  Though decisions.  .

@ricardoosusa Please do report back if you take the plunge.  I'd love to read about the experience of comparing Dynaudio and Cube Audio.  Such different approaches, it would be very informative.

@tkukielk I think its a great idea to have Jim Salk build the cabinets. I own 2 pairs of Salks and the build quality is first rate. I also think the oiled walnut finish on the Nenuphar Mini's is also outstanding. I've had my mini's for a little over a month now. These are special speakers. I'm not a good audiophile in the sense that I tend to make a bunch of changes in a relatively short time (I've also changed DACs, power cables, speaker cables, power conditioning, and messed with different tubes), but something really good has been happening the past couple weeks of listening. The speakers are opening up and the inner detail and depth is fantastic. Bass keeps getting better, but I'm still thinking my amp is just maybe a bit too polite. It's the Canary M90 (300b push pull). It sounds sublime in terms of that inner detail and micro harmonics. Voices are surreal. I would say it has a very creamy, smooth, layered sound. What I feel I'm missing is a touch of bite or slam, but it has plenty of power and can play extremely loud without strain. I also feel like the music is presented more in a deep tunnel of sound, which can definitely suck you in. I think it's a very refined sound, and maybe I'm not as refined as I thought :/  I'm going to try some different amps before making any more changes and see where I get. Maybe I will stay put after trying some different options, we'll see. I will say, after a week without power and staying in 4 different hotels in the past 6 nights it's wonderful to be back in my house listening to my system this morning -- I am very grateful for that and it is a privilege.

@ricardoosusa Your system sounds like something straight out of what Daedalus would have put together.  Have you looked at their line of real wood speakers?

@ abd,
Congratulations on acquiring the Nenuphar Mini speakers. Based on your listening impressions it seems with exception of one specific sonic parameter (Bite and slam) the sound quality is outstanding! Trying some other amplifiers for comparison is an excellent idea.

Based on your description with use of the Canary M 90 300b push pull it strikes me that you are 95% there as it is. It leads me to wonder if trying different tubes (300b and/or 6SN7) or power cable/interconnects might rectify the "bite and slam" concern. Which as you described is just a "touch" short.

Something to think about because otherwise the Canary M 90 +Nenuphar pairing appears to be an exceptionally good pairing (Unless there’s something I’m missing). You used the terms  "sublime"  "surreal" "fantastic" and that’s very telling in my opinion. The positive attributes you have noted are hard for many to achieve.
Charles

So been listening for a while today. Maybe this is a better way of describing the sound. With the Canary amp the sound is like peering into a deep funnel. It sucks you in and is very detailed and the tonality is so accurate and lifelike. It can be startling. The "funnel" starts at the plane of the speakers and descends back into the wall. It feels like falling into a blackhole.

With other amps I've had, the sound floats outward and around you. You feel as though you are in the music, not falling into it. I think this is why the current amp sounds "polite" to me or lacks a little punch. The sound seems a bit further way and even though its amazing, its not as tactile as some other amps I've enjoyed. A good example is the track Hello Night on  Zoë Keating's album Into the Trees. The very beginning of the track starts with sounds that quickly appear and disappear. With the Canary the sounds appear to be floating out ahead of you at various distances. With some other tube amps I've had (Primaluna, Line Magnetic, Linear Tube Audio) the sounds floated all around and almost behind you. The rest of the track, with the Canary, is tonally so accurate and powerful it is startling. With this amp it sounds like you're listening in an anechoic chamber because there's no reverb or haziness, but nothing is harsh or out of place. The detail of the bow's running across the strings is almost tangible. With the other amps you get a smoother sound here, but it is all over you like you're in a cloud of music. Wow, just a totally different presentation I guess, but maybe the way the Canary presents the music is why I'm feeling a slight lack of punch or bite.

Fun descriptions. Thanks for the elaboration

Hi folks, wondering if anyone with these Cube drivers listens to rock (e.g., Tool) or heavy electronica? 

I was reading a WBF thread where people pointed that out as a potential weakness... while still loving the speakers.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/wills-horn-finalists.28945/page-7

Mine are on order. I mainly listen to Classic Rock and investigated these before purchasing. I was assured there wouldnt be any issues by multiple people. Im not a Bass Head so Im not looking for that in a speaker.  Dont know TOOL's music but its probably MUCH more bombastic than what I listen to. I'll be sure to let people know down the road what I think of them with my music/room/amp choices etc  Ive got at least a dozen amps so something has to work!!

Hi cal, a demo listening to your own collection of music is the best way forward if you can arrange.  

Cube/Bakoon mighty impressive bite and slam imo.