Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

Hi Steve,

Your Billie Holiday example is an excellent one. As I improved my audio system over the years I became more aware of recording flaws yet this was overpowered by the increased naturalness of tone/timbre nuance just as you observed . This heightened awareness was particularly noticed when I began using my 300b SET amplifiers. The ’naturalness/realism’ factor went up a level without question. I can certainly see how the Nenuphars could have the same effect (if not even more so). Bottom line, you aren’t distracted by recording imperfections.

Bill what are your Clayton amp’s specs in regard to

Damping Factor

Output impedance

Utilization of NFB?

If you read the initial 6 Moons review of the Nenuphar you'll find considerable discussion on these parameters and their effect on the speaker’s performance.

Charles

David,

Thanks for providing the link to the Cube Audio Mini Basis review. The final sentence on page 6 Srajan sums it up well in regard to High End Audio. "The absolute sound is what you like best"

His effective weather/climate and coffee analogies for the two amplifiers  work well  for me. Given my taste/bias in music reproduction, I'd  choose the S.I.T.-3 over the obviously excellent (as well) Bakoon.

Charles

Hi larryi,

Your assessment of the Nenuphar makes me curious as to what components were used upstream in the signal path. I’ve become convinced that the Nenuphar simply delivers what it is fed. Srajan of 6 Moons has particularly made this point on several occasions. While this could be said of any number of good quality speakers it seems especially so in regard to the Nenuphar.

David whose ears I trust has owned these speakers for a year and has had none of the shortcomings you identified. Now to be fair David has truly excellent components in his system and no doubt this is a factor. But this makes my point as to the impressive honesty of the Nenuphar. Larry as always I appreciate your informed insight and comments. For an example  of upstream changes, Srajan noted this speaker sounds crystal clear and a ’touch’ nordic cool with the Bakoon amp.

The speaker clearly sounds warmer/fuller/richer with the S.I.T.-3 amp. So the sound heard via the Nenuphar is ’quite’ different merely by changing the power amplifier.

Charles

larryi.

Just to be clear I welcome your listening impressions and opinion. There is no ’perfect’ speaker and that’s a fact. I found your critique interesting as I believe David had some concerns about full range single driver speakers that you mentioned. Fortunately for him these concerns/fears did not materialize in his system. I know his experience with the Nenuphars has been outstanding. David forgive if I’m putting words in your mouth. BTW David is using the superb Found Music 2A3 SET mono blocks.

Charles

@jayctoy 

What amplifier was driving the Nenuphars? Which Lampizator DAC?  You could "feel" the music. That's my kind of audio  syshem! 👍

Charles 

Seems to me if current Nenuphar owners have their system dialed in to their liking, I’d leave well enough alone. Or as Ebaen suggested you’re just changing components/cables again in an attempt to match the voicing of the new driver.

If one feels they will benefit from the fuller voiced new driver then go for it.I believe the original driver is a remarkable achievement.

Charles

@stephendunn 

Good observations. It seems pretty clear to me that Srajan was making the case that the new driver is "different " rather than better. It would be really nice if both speaker drivers were to be available. I believe that the new driver loses 2 db of sensitivity. 

Charles 

@mozartfan

"I think Cube handled this new upgrade with a stand-off-ish-ness. A bit too rushed , or lets say, lack on planed implimentation..in the intro of the new **break-through".

I don’t believe that there was a "rush" in the development/implementation process. Cube Audio strikes me as very deliberate and methodical in these matters. I like you, do yearn for more specific information as to the differences between the original and new driver. Pure curiosity I’ll admit. My gut feeling is that both are superb drivers and the choice is totally dependant on listener objectives.

Charles

It would make such an interesting comparison,  Audio kinesisis swarm and Cube Audio's  own well thought out subwoofer product. For those who seek Nenuphar bass augmentation I strongly suspect that either would be excellent choices. Given my taste I'd still find the stand alone Nenuphar highly desirable. In light of yesterday's Kentucky derby,  horses for courses.

Charles 

Stephen,

David uses 3.5 watt 2A3 SET mono blocks with superb results and preferred them in direct comparison to an excellent quality el 34 PP amp and his excellent T+A SS amps. I believe you’d be very happy with a good quality 300b SET (8 watts usually) driving your Nenuphars..

At European audio shows Cube Audio often demonstrates with 2A3 and 45 SETs to reveal how easily driven the Nenuphar is.

Charles

Agree, and this is why people must know their own listening expectations/ demands and intentions when attempting to pair amplifiers and speakers. This is truly an individual endeavor.

Charles

Hi David,

Thanks for your insight into recent listening experiences. Does your T+A 300 watt amplifier offer any additional advantage specifically related to large scale symphonic/choral music at high volume levels? It's clear (to me) you prefer the 2A3 Found Music amplifiers under virtually all other listening conditions (Genre and typical volume level).

Charles

Sakso136,

I've been very curious about Aries Cerat for several years as I'm very intrigued by their design approach and philosophy. I thought the Genus amp used the 813 DHT as output tube driven by the Siemens  so called "super tube". Regardless I imagine this amp paired with the Nenuphar sounds outstanding.  I have no doubt.

In a perfect world I'd love to hear your amp compared to David's superb Found Music 2A3 mono blocks. Two very different amplifiers for certain but the Nenuphar bringing out the best of both of them.

Charles

Hi sakso136,

 Thanks for the update information regarding the Genus amplifier. The 845 is a wonderful tube in my opinion. I've heard the Elrog 845 in a friend's amplifier and it was heavenly. A few years ago I had the Elrog 300b in my amplifier and it was beautiful sounding but unreliable (I had the very early production tubes). I understand that the latest generation Elrogs have solved the reliability issues. Given the Aries Cerat approach your amplifier will have a fabulous over built power supply.

Charles

sakso,

Your comparison of  the 9 watt 300b amp and the MBL 300 watt amp is consistent with findings from other posters earlier in this thread. It drives home the unique design/intention of the very special driver used. An ultra controlled driver cone doesn’t need additional damping (DF) control from the driving amplifier.

As you and others have demonstrated excess amplifier DF will deteriorate the sound quality of the Nenuphar. Your powerful MBL amp very likely has a relatively high DF (and low output impedance). These traits are no doubt desirable for some (perhaps many) speakers. The Nenuphar is an entirely different approach. Given the superb results of the AC Genus/Nenuphar pairing one could assume the Genus amp has very little (or maybe zero) NFB and thus a low DF and moderately high output impedance. Ideal for the Nenuphar..

Charles

Not a weak thin sound like many full-range systems produce. But the ability to play any music type inc bass-heavy at loud SPL levels without breakup. This is something that eludes most all full-range driver loudspeakers.

This would explain the universal satisfaction and happiness of Cube Audio Nenuphar owners. As they (Nenuphars)  successfully conquered these pervasive shortcomings of many single driver /full range designs.

Charles

Steve,

It has been fun following your  listening impressions and reporting as your system has evolved. After all isn't this the entire point ?  Discovering  ways to improve our music listening experiences. and engagement. It really makes me  happy  when someone  gets ever closer in connecting with their music be it streaming or a collection of recordings.

Charles

Hi Steve,

I am also not surprised that the S.I.T.-1 is even better with the Nenuphar than the excellent S.I.T.-3. It is a closer match to the type of amplifier the Nenuphar was designed for. More in line with (as you identify) a high quality zero NFB high output impedance tube SET. Yet one can still achieve stellar results with other types of amplifiers. I did also feel/sense that Srajan tempered the differences between the two First Watt amps when I read the initial Nenuphar review. Steve if sounds as if you have stepped deep into the realm of music lover’s heaven with the addition of the S.I.T.-1 mono blocks. I suspect you are hearing (certainly very similar) what David is hearing with his system..

Charles

Stephen,

Thanks for your latest listening impression of your evolving audio system, your posts/comments are always interesting and fun to read. I would not be surprised if our listening  preferences overlapped  in the range of 80 % or so. .  The other 20 % we 'd make different choices (variety is the spice of life).  In my experience solid state (SS)  preamps 'generally' sound drier, less tactile and 2 dimensional compared to the very good category/level of tube preamps (For certain not every tube preamp is a good one).

I am  fully  aware that there are exceptions to my generalizatons. For example I have always been intrigued by the SS Robert Koda  preamp. I strongly suspect that I'd find it truly excellent. Your Pass SP 22 and S.I.T.-3 pairing could easily be another exception. I have no doubt that your current audio system sounds fantastic! I'm glad it is providing you such music listening joy.

Charles

riia,

You are right snd BTW I suspect I'd probably like the S.I.T.-1 even more than the highly praised S.I.T-3.

Steven

Coincident Statement line stage for over 10 years. I appreciate it more than ever. It's superb.

Steve,

Your comments concerning  the Shindo is in a sense surprising in regard to the level of perceived coloration/editorializing it imparted to your system. I do believe the Nenuphars unapologetically reveal all the is placed before them in the signal chain. So I feel that you heard the innate character of the Shindo Giscours as combined with your components and speakers.

I believe you would like the Coincident Statement Linestage (CSL) very much.  It utilizes a pair of the 101d DHT tubes and has transformer volume controls rather than one that is resistor based. Of its many attributes what stands out most IMO is the purity and transparency of its presentation. The natural tone/timbre/harmonics are rendered without gratuitous warmth or tint. Yet it’s the antithesis of clinical/threadbare/dry/analytical. The sense of flesh on the bone and living breathing performers is present.It has excellent dynamic capability and is very adept in revealing the nuances and subtleties of music reproduction.

You are very pleased with your Pass SP-22 and I can understand why. There’s no way I could say you’d be even happier with the CSL but I genuinely feel that you’d be pleased with it as well given your desire/preference of purity versus imposed sonic colorations. I suspect that the Vinnie Rossi DHT and the Trafomatic 10y DHT preamplifiers are excellent.

Charles

Steve,

There was a remote version of the CSL a few years ago. Israel Blume did subsequently discontinued this version. The latest MK II CSL is further evolution and refinement of my original model and I'm sure even better. Given the level of satisfaction you have with the Pass SP 22 I'd imagine that you have very little incentive to replace it. It seems an ideal match with your S.I.T.-1.

Charles

The F1 and F2 amps really have output impedances that high? This seems impractical for use with most any speaker. 80. and 15. ohms? Is there a missing decimal point? Particularly elevated for a transistor amplifier. What would be Nelson Pass' rationale for those levels? The S.I.T.-1 and 2 at 4 ohm I can understand.

Charles

The Nenuphar driver was very specifically designed to mate well with high output impedance amplifiers. It utilizes a "powerful" magnet to control the driver.  Srajan Ebaen  certainly confirmed this with his review where he used multiple amplifiers. the higher the output impedance (lower damping factor) the better the sound.

It is quite interesting how some listeners/owners of the speaker are reporting very good sound with amplifiers that don’t meet the desired criteria. It really seems that a high DF amplifier would deaden the sound of the Nenuphar as the driver would be markedly ’over damped’. I realize you have to trust what you hear but this seems very counter intuitive. I wonder what additional factors are involved here.

Charles

Steve,

Cube Audio's Grezegorz made it clear to Srajan Ebaen that the voice coil excursion and the phenoic spider of the Nenuphar are very well controlled by the magnetic field provided by the very powerful neodymium magnets (81 total). He also mentioned the importance of the driver’s carefully determined geometry and level of cone/whizzer stiffness employed. Grzegorz clearly intended for the Nenuphar to pair in excellent fashion with low DF amplifiers.

It seems this speaker will also sound quite good with amps of higher (to a point) DF but will most probably display their ultimate performance with the targeted low DF amplifiers. Your listening impressions do seem to bear that out.

Charles

I googled the Yamaha AS 3200 and according to Yamaha,

THD 0.07%

Damping Factor (DF) is 250 at 1K HZ and 8 ohms

Those numbers suggest a generous amount of negative feedback NFB is utilized. On paper not a particularly good match for the Nenuphar but listening is the final arbiter.

Charles

After some more testing and prototyping, we decided to go the foam surround on the F10 Select drivers as well. Not only does it have a little more efficiency, but it also has a very nice, richer midrange than before. It's definitely an improvement, so we'll be switching to the new design from now on.

Improved efficiency  and improving the critically vital midrange region? How do  you not appreciate and welcome that?  The folks at Cube Audio definitely burn the midnight oil it certainly seems. 

Charles 

I would agree that although DF is a factor that needs consideration there are additional variables involved that also influence amplifier and Nenuphar compatibility. People are expressing happiness with the Bakoon 13R driving the Nenuphar so something is obviously going right to make this possible.

Charles