Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

I have never heard a Boenicke apart from the youtube videos and I liked what I heard. Its interesting that folks who are interested in Cube are also also interested in them as I am. I would be highly interested in a comparison between the two though I am not sure if this would be the right thread. The amp requirements for the Cube and Boenicke are on the opposite end of the spectrum.

The Raido/Børresen in shows always have a wider placement configuration very close to the side wall with aggressive toe-in towards the listening position. Maybe they don't care for the sidewall reflection based on how the speaker is designed. I am still playing to the positioning with the Nenuphars and experimented a  little with the toe-in and I find aggressive toe-in make the sound too bright and sharp for my taste. Currently they are toed in about 5-10degree. How much toe-in do you guys have ? Between, anyone using a pair of subs with the Cube ? 

Initially I had my Cubes pointed straight ahead but have found they do sound better with a slight toe-in. Haven't tried corner placement because of furniture constraints.

Boenickes and Cubes are quite different animals but share something that I find attractive. It might be called flow or a more natural sound. I don't care for speakers that "push" music at me.

@cal3713   +1

Btw, I just wanted to say how exemplary this thread is. Just pure, helpful, experience sharing and education. It's really a pleasure, thanks.

@stephendunn  Congratulations on your success with the Vinnie Rossi integrated and resistor solution.

@debjit_g If you are still looking at amps, and a 2A3 is still an option...

My Found-Music 2A3 drives the Nenuphars with ease. I top out at 90dB averages when I choose to crank the music. We have had it up over 100dB averages for a couple of audio buddies who prefer their music really loud. Above 90dB levels, my untreated room asserts itself as an unwelcome actor.

[Note: by average, I mean the average over the recording (including peaks)]

My usual (and normal) listening levels are in the low 70dB range with averaged peaks in mid to high 80 (spikes into the 90s); recording dependant, of course.

Room is 19 ft by 26 ft.

I am hoping that the 2A3 can power the Cube’s to a comfortable listening level when the listening position is 8-9ft from the speaker.

Not all 2A3s are created equal. I encourage you to reach out to @charles1dad and others qualified to address build quality.

General comment for those not active in this thread: the designers of Cube Audio's Nenuphar (and variants) have routinely shown their work paired with low watt (45 and 2A3) SET amplifiers.

Peter Breuninger, of AVShowrooms, fell under the spell of the Nenuphar Minis driven by the Tektron 45/50 SET amp. Just another recent example of the exceptional synergy of the Nenuphar(s) with low watt amps.

Speaking of the resistor solution, Stephen, could you elucidate more? Were they across the terminals? Were they at the amp or the speaker? Are they in series or parallel?

TIA,
Robert

Robert,

The resistors were connected between the positive output of the amp and positive speaker cable connector.  So I wound one end around the WBT positive terminal of the VR and the other end I wound around the banana plug of the speaker cable.  When I asked Vinnie if he suggested soldering the connection to the banana plug, which is probably not a good idea considering possible damage or visual marring of the banana plug he replied:
"It might be a good idea to make that resistor connection better.  Maybe a male banana on one end (to the L2) and female banana jack on the other end (to your speaker cable)."

As to your question about whether the resistors are in series or parallel, I am not technical enough to answer, although my guess is since there is only one resister per channel they are definitely not in series.

BTW I checked out your room.  Beautiful space and great set up.  Despite the height of your ceiling, I think you'll be surprised how the Nenuphars will fill the space.  When I went to this catty corner speaker set up I was shocked how much more height there was to the soundstage. Listening to Cohen Live In London my room took on the dimensions of that enormous hall where the concert took place.  I thought this was strange considering the ceiling height (14') hadn't changed from my previous set up with speakers 3' out from the long wall.  

@stephendunn Thanks for the additional information regarding resistor setup, much appreciated.

That would actually be a series connection. In parallel circuits, electricity is flowing through two independent circuits. If either is cut, the other circuit will be still be conducting electricity (think modern Christmas lights where breaks in the circuit, i.e. a burned out bulb, don't cut out the whole stand). Alternatively, in a series circuit, each component is an integral part of the circuit and if it breaks, no electricity flows (i.e, old Christmas light strands where every bulb needed to be tested to find the fault).

In this case your amp is producing electricity and the positive & negative wires complete that circuit and allow it to flow through the speaker. If the resistor were connected in parallel to that circuit, it would be connected to both the positive and negative terminals of the amp (or speaker). Cut one leg of the resistor and the full speaker circuit is still connected to both terminals, electricity flows, and the music continues.  Instead, you've got it connected in series with the speaker circuit. Cut one leg of the resistor and it breaks the circuit and there's no connection/electricity/music.

Yes in series. Cal, good analogy and explanation.
Charles  

Stephen, might be worth looking at Dueland cast graphite resistors. Attach to high quality male and female banana preferably by crimped connections if possible or crimp to spade at amplifier end.

Series vs. parallel.

If the only link between the amp the speaker is through the resistor and then to the cable, then it would be in series.
If the resistor makes a looping connection in addition to the regular cable connection, then it would be in parallel.

It is still not clear to me which Vinnie suggested.
Robert

Nenuphar journey, part 3.

Now that the Nens were broken in, it was time to try different amplifiers. I had been using the LTA Z10 integrated. It sounded fine but lacked enthusiasm, a certain jump factor. Time to explore my FirstWatt collection.

First up was the J2, which actually exceeded my expectations. It sounded clearer than the Z10. The bass was fine, but the soundstage only average. Perhaps a pre would expand the soundstage. PRaT was good, restoring the jump factor. All in all, a decent match, so if you have a J2 don't throw it away. :-)

To be continued....

Opinion Poll

Hi all, I'm new to audiogon and new to this post.

It's been a very enjoyable read so far if not a little long winded and time consuming, but can now feel proud to have finally managed to make it through to the end.

Just wondering if those that have actually listened to both the Nenuphar 10 inch and 8 inch could give there preference just to see which one is ultimately the preferred choice.

A couple of setup changes that might be of interest....

I had an audio friend visit this past weekend. He has broad experience listening to and problem solving for his audio clients, primarily for analog and speaker setups in systems that reach into the stratosphere.

After spending two evenings listening to my system, his primary recommendation was to remove the Nenuphars from the Townshend Platforms.

This relates to @onhwy61  's question regarding driver vs. cabinet contribution and also to @charles1dad  's response to onhwy61 (both posts from a previous page). 

For transmission line designs, my friend finds the floor and room interface and their relationship and interaction with the driver critical to sound quality. 

The results were spectacular. Even he was surprised by the degree of difference. As he put it, greater than a component upgrade.

The speakers were positioned the same as when on the platforms. They remain on Eden Sound Spikes. They are on a suspended hardwood floor. 

After he left, I decided to use the Townshend Platforms for my 2A3 mono blocks. I removed the GAIA footers from the amps and the Timbernation Maple block with brass spikes and Herbie's isolation pucks.

I had to remove the bottom plate on each amp since the screw heads extend beyond the wood chassis. The reason for doing this was to have a completely flat amplifier surface when on the Townshend metal platform. The Townshend Platform has a center perforation; airflow is preserved.

To my ears, removing the Nenuphars from the platforms resulted in a two step gain. The amps on the platforms a three-quarter step gain. Combined synergy, a three step gain. Significant; an understatement.

toetapaudio
Thanks for the recommendation.  Just ordered them--they are certainly a better resistor than the one I'm using (which Vinnie probably suggested since we didn't know whether it would work).  We'll see if they make a difference.  

david_ten
This is heresy!  But I'm going to try it--even the part about putting my VR on the Townsend platform, although I think it is too light for the weight load range of the platform springs.  Have to check.

When I first put the Nenuphars on the platforms I noticed a big change to the sound.  Sometimes one is lead to believe that means a change all for the better, which is obviously not always the case.  We'll see.  Thanks for passing on what you found.

@Yorkshireman, we have both the 10 inch and 8 inch available to demo at home so you can decide. In an average size room I think most people would be happy with the 8 inch. It would be interesting to hear from others that have auditioned both. AVS on YouTube recently reviewed the 8 inch version, worth checking out if you haven’t already. Their initial review was for the 10 inch. Personally I feel the 8 inch produces enough bass but you should try both to be satisfied.

To be clear Townshend produce Podiums for speakers and Platforms for equipment. The principal of springs and damper are similar but they differ dimensionally and with different spring rates. Unless your amps are a similar weight to the speakers they may not work optimally. Amps and equipment should always be on effective isolation devices anyhow and Townshend are certainly one of the better systems. The other arrangement I like are cups and rollers plus springs.

My findings with speaker isolation have always been positive. Boenicke with and without their spring bases are quite different, being more transparent with isolation. The same goes for Cube imo.

@stephendunn There are so many variables here, that it warrants an obvious caution: Your Results May (and will) Likely Vary.

I’m glad you are trying it out. Let us know how it works.
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@toetapaudio Robert, I should not have used the generic word ’platform.’

!!!To clarify, the Townshend Audio product I was using with the speakers is the Seismic Isolation Podium.!!!

I also realize my Seismic Isolation Podiums are not ideal nor ideally weighted for the amps. But it is the only application I can use them for due to rack accommodation issues and cable length restrictions.

I was curious, so I went ahead with it.

Stephen, yes please let us know how the Duelands perform. If they work you might consider stabilising them by strapping/glueing them to a suitable material in the form of a platform or block incorporating a high quality amplifier terminal at one end and a flying lead terminated in a high quality spade to attach to the VR. A sort of “bullet” if you like.

 Yes, I meant podiums not platforms. 

Stereotimes review posted. The Ayon Audio Odin SET run in parallel with a DF of 12, operation in class A, and with zero negative feedback, is another amplifier that can be added to the list of compatible amplifiers that work well with the Nenuphars. I also have a new pair of FW SIT-1s that are having the voltage changed at Pass Labs that should mate well with my 6H30 tube based Ayon Audio S-5 Network Player/Preamp/DAC. I like to change it up from time to time between tube and solid state based amplification.

Here is Mike Girardi's Stereo Times Cube Audio Nenuphar review:

http://v2.stereotimes.com/post/cube-audio-nenuphar-loudspeakers-by-mike-girardi/

Thanks, Mike.

Hello everyone, I been away from the site for quite a while and it’s very encouraging to see such a civil and informative thread still going on from my last visit. 
I have not had the pleasure of owning, or even hearing, the Nenuphar’s but hope to remedy both scores before too long. I’ve been lusting for them ever since David’s, Srajen’s and so many others glowing reviews of them. They seem to be a  transcendent speaker that isn’t outrageously priced. My wife may disagree with the last part of that statement 😜

Nenuphar journey, part 4.

The next amp to listen to with the Nenuphars was the FirstWatt F-1. The F1 was the first model of the then new First Watt enterprise. The amp in my living room was serial number 017, put together by the master himself at home.

The general idea with amplifier damping factors is that the Cubes can be overdamped so that lower is better. And the most obvious 'better' with low DF is more bass. The F-1 is probably unique in that its output impedance is a whopping 80 ohms. Since the DF is calculated by dividing the speaker impedance by the amplifier output impedance, for the Nenuphar and F1 combo we have 8/80 = 0.1....Yowza!

Well, yes. It seems the F1 is a bass beast. Too much so for this boy when listening to Yellow's Toy album, but great with the growling intro to Biloxi (off The River & The Thread album by Rosanne Cash).

If anything, there was a bit of bass overhang, probably from too low a DF. There was a touch of sibilance on Joni Mitchell's A Case of You. The soundstage was average/normal for my setup.

Next up, the SIT-3

@rwpollock  Thanks for your ongoing updates. They are fascinating and informative!  Neat storylines as well!

@yorkshireman  Welcome! Did @toetapaudio 's response answer your question? Can we help with anything else?

@mac48025  Tom, welcome back!!!  @redwoodaudio had asked, on Page 10 of the thread, for comparisons with his Omegas. I know you haven't heard the Nenuphars but have been thoroughly researching them. Perhaps he and you can connect, since both of you have Omegas?

Nenuphar journey, part 5

The next amp to be paired with my Mini Monitors was to be the SIT-3, which needs no introduction here. I had heard the combo at AXPONA, so that when I unexpectedly acquired a SIT-2 from a fellow in Hawaii the new boy jumped to the front of the line.

The SIT-2 made for an overall more refined sound than the previous amps. It was mid-centric which accounts for the 'tube-like' descriptions found in some reviews. There was a large soundstage and the presentation was more forward -- Sinatra had moved to the front of the stage. Lots of bass and no problems listening to beat-heavy music. Beck had swirling swashes of sound, sufficiently psychedelic. Who knew 10 (or 12) watts could make this much music?

It made one wonder what a pair of SIT-1s would sound like (the SIT2 is basically the stereo version of the 1s).

To be continued....

Would the Nenuphars work satisfactorily on my Coda #8 amp?

@coot, hard to say without trying and comparing with a known reference that works with the Cubes. Perhaps approach the US distributor and see if he can help you out? What are you using at the moment?

David, very nice review in Stereo Times. Are you the 'Davis' mentioned in the article?

- RWP

Yes. Davis Ten. Clement needs to up his editing game. : )

hard to say without trying and comparing with a known reference that works with the Cubes.

+1

@coot  I believe the damping factor is 200. I could not find anything in a quick search regarding negative feedback. Even though the No. 8 has 18 watts of Class A before going A/B, it's 200+ watts into 6 Ohms far exceeds Cube's recommended max of 40 watts.

Will it work, YES. Is it the best match/pairing???

Thanks guys. I guess my real question is, Why the max of 40? Does too much power damage the speakers? Tektons are quite sensitive as well, but I know people who are using high-power ss on them without damage. Anyway, thanks.

Agree with David. It will definitely "work" with the Nenuphar. There’s certainly the possibility that it may do more than merely work and sound good as a pairing. The point is the Coda Technologies # 8 is designed as a high current capable amplifier that doubles its wattage when speaker impedance in halved from  8 to 4 ohms. These kinds of amplifiers usually are low output impedance designs with generous levels of NFB.

It uses 20 transistors per channel to accomplish this. The Nenuphar was designed for a very different type of amplifier topology and circuits. You just never know how these pairings may actually sound. So the obvious key is listening to this match and make a determination.
Best of luck coot,
Charles

Charles,
Thanks for chipping in. I’ll look elsewhere for speaker heaven.
In the meantime I'll continue to enjoy my Ohm 5000s.
- Al

Hi to all from Germany!

Just finished the compete Thread. Wow, what a read! Thanks to all for the shared experiences, information's and for the very friendly and respectful conversation.

I'am very new to the hobby, two years, but badly infected with the hifi bug.

I made quite a journey in that short period of time. I'll never thought this would be possible when I started.

My first setup was a new Vincent SV237 MKII paired with a demo Q Acoustics Concept 500. Just used the internal DAC and a Tidal subscription, nothing more. 

I found then a local dealer, since I had tones of fun and I was getting more and more involved and interested. He has brands like Aries Cerat, Jadis, Grandinote, Cube Audio, Viva Audio and so on. I was visiting a couple of  listening events and was instantly hooked.

Today my setup is a Viva Audio Solistino, SOTM Switch with it's power supply, 432evo aeon, Audio Analogue AADAC, the Q Acoustics along with Audioplan Finefilter, PowerStar, 2 PowerPlants and two PSI Audio AVAA's

As a loaner from the mentioned dealer I have since 5 days the Nenuphar in use. I always have been amazed by it at the listening events. I was really happy to find out that they sound equally well in my living room, which has received, right from the beginning, constantly room treatment. 

The lift in emotions, feelings and engagement that the Nenuphar delivers is truly special. The hole week I was happy to come home from work, just to spend the night in front of my stereo. 

Needles to say that I am happily keeping them.

Sorry for all the writing, just got carried away. ;-)

Cheers!
 

 

Hi greenhorn20, 
Congratulations on acquiring the Nenuphars and thanks for sharing your very happy outcome with us here. I have no doubt at all that the Viva Solistino and Nenuphars sound positively Devine. Your have made some excellent purchasing decisions. I can certainly imagine the emotionally engaging music listening experience is fantastic. 
Charles 

Thanks @greenhorn for posting your thoughts, sounds like a nice setup.

Thanks to you both! @charles1dad  @toetapaudio

I've also read through this thread and watched Youtube reviews and videos about the Nenuphar Mini's. What really got me interested is Peter Breuninger's reviews. Peter sometimes gushes on and on, but I know Peter has listened to almost everything and when he is as enthusiastic about something to the degree he has been about these it says something to me, and his enthusiasm did not seem like typical hyperbole. Not to mention all the glowing reviews from the comments here. I have been extremely fortunate this year, which is odd during such difficult times, but I decided to get a pair of Nenuphar Mini's because life is short and if I'm going to spend more time inside I better make the most of it. I had been wanting a pair of Spatial X5's, but I think they're too big for my space so I decided to get a pair of Nenuphar Mini's. Currently a pair finished in walnut are headed over and I'm putting a deposit on them. I can't wait to get them. I recently picked up a small Tektron EL-84 push pull integrated to start with the Cube's. I've been using it in my office this week and its a sweet little integrated. I plan on playing around with different tube amps and possible some First Watt models over the next couple years.

My only concern with the Cube's is how they handle voices. One of my favorite speakers uses a RAAL ribbon tweeter and I love the extension and air without harshness. I know the Nenuphar's won't get that extension, but I'm hoping the texture, tone, detail, imaging, dynamics, etc. all make up for it. Has anyone here compared the Nenuphar to a ribbon or berylium tweeter? Thank you all for your insights.

@greenhorn20  Welcome to the Nenuphar thread, to Audiogon and to the hobby. Thanks for sharing your journey and your system. 

Congratulations on your recent successful audition and acquisition of the Nenuphars. I've been curious about driving my Nenuphars with 845 Output tubes for some time now, and Viva is a top option.

As Charles pointed out in his post, I also expect the Solistino - Nenuphar pairing to be terrific. 

Perhaps your dealer can loan you the appropriate Aries Cerat and Jadis amps, for comparison purposes?

As for getting "carried away," isn't that what this hobby is all about? I hope you continue to be "transported" to happy places with your system! 

@abd1 I agree with your assessment of Peter Brueninger’s reviews. You are spot on.

They are mostly very positive. Which, as with so many reviewers, requires the reader to be familiar with a reviewer’s review history and patterns AND to carefully "read between [and past] the lines." In his reviews of the Nenuphar and the Mini Nenuphar, he was clearly in a very different and very special place. Srajan Ebaen was as well. Add Mike Girardi to that list.

Congratulations on your purchase of the Walnut Nenuphar Minis. Can you share photographs of them? I’d love to see how they look in that particular finish. Thanks.

@abd1 I cannot think of a single post from a Nenuphar owner that voices concern over voice! : )

Mike Girardi’s Stereo Times review discusses the performance of Herbie Hancock’s ’Gershwin’s World’ in depth and makes a particular point with Joni Mitchell’s vocals on the recording.

This statement from Mike should allay any concerns you have:

Once you listen to vocals on the Cubes, it’s "Game over" for most multidriver loudspeakers.

My Jim Jordan’s Vaughn Loudspeakers utilized a RAAL ribbon to extend his widebander’s performance. I totally get what you are saying about how RAAL implementations sound. Based on my memory of my own RAAL based speakers (as well as others I have heard), I don’t believe you have anything to be concerned about. BTW, I had the same concern... prior to purchasing the Nenuphars.

My only concern with the Cube’s is how they handle voices. One of my favorite speakers uses a RAAL ribbon tweeter and I love the extension and air without harshness. I know the Nenuphar’s won’t get that extension, but I’m hoping the texture, tone, detail, imaging, dynamics, etc. all make up for it. Has anyone here compared the Nenuphar to a ribbon or berylium tweeter?

Hi David,
At one time I gave serious consideration to Vaughn speakers (RAAL ribbon/Fostex 8" wide range driver) and the Tonian Lab Classic 12.1 (Which utilized the legendary French 12" PHY wide range driver) to pair with my 300b mono blocks. I didn’t know you had a direct listening experience with the Vaughn. Very interesting. David what amplifier were you using with them ?

In my opinion it is very high praise indeed to say you prefer the Nenuphar to the Vaughn with RAAL ribbon tweeter for human voice reproduction. Midrange and vocals were said to be a strength of the Classic 12.1. as well.
Charles

Hi Charles,

- Melody I2A3 (Push-Pull 18 watts) integrated amplifier

 and the

- Ayon Spirit II (KT-88 Push-Pull 40/60 watts Triode/Pentode) integrated amplifier

I have fond memories of the Vaughn anchored system. 

Just saw the A/V forum video review from Peter B. on this speaker. Looks promising. I confess not having read through this thread, but the Impedance spec is no where to be found on their website. 

Hi @abd1 I’m sure you will like vocals on Nenuphar Mini’s, keep us posted.