Cube Audio Nenuphar Single Driver Speaker (10 inch) TQWT Enclosure

@whitestix 

wow! 
Quite a dramatic transformation. I’m glad that you gave the speakers a 2nd chance. A shame if you had dumped them prematurely. I just truly believed that these speakers with your magnificent Don Sachs/Lynn Olsen built 300b push-pull amplifier would be a sublime pairing. It is genuinely great that this has turned out to be the case. Congratulations!

Charles

@whitestix @charles1dad

I had a similar experience with my Nenuphar Mini’s. Bsically, the first year I owned them it was a love/hate experience. Often, I was enamored with the sound and loved the transparency without harshness. However, as my previous posts mention, I struggled with imaging and often the speakers would "beam" especially with vocals, and/or the soundstage would be tilted to the left side of the listening area, which I attributed to my room. However, I moved houses and have a bigger room and still had the issue.

I upgraded the drivers, tried different components, cables, power conditioners, amps, even Dirac room correction. And I tried positioning speakers all over and adjusted toe in. I even reoriented the entire room which helped but eventually my wife veto’d (to her credit she let me get away with it for a few months). Some changes made improvements but couldn’t quite get it to consistently sound the way I wanted.. One day earlier this year I was getting a little frustrated and went to a local store to demo some Sonus Faber’s which they had hooked up to a Luxman integrated (liked the speakers, but more impressed with the integrated). The imaging was excellent and I noticed the speakers were closer together than I had tried and toe’d in. I had tried putting mine close together but didn’t really try toing in. I went home and started with the speakers really close together (about 5’) and toed in so they "connected" at the MLP. It was an improvement. I started pulling the speakers further apart a few inches at a time and keeping toe in towards the MLP. Eventually I got to the spot they’re at now. I took measurements and made a diagram, just in case they get moved accidentally! Now, I’m getting amazing imaging, detail, depth depth depth (which I think is the hardest attribute to achieve) and tone. Speakers completely disappear. What’s interesting is that I’m pretty sure I’ve had the speakers in about the same spot as I ended up with, but maybe they’re toed in a little more and they’re a couple inches narrower. Just shows a couple inches can make a big difference. I also think it really did take a while for the drivers to break in. If some people say 100 hours, that’s listening for about 2 hours each week. Well, some weeks I don’t listen at all as I travel for work or am too busy. And, when I do listen I would say most of the time is at low volume as I’m working or it’s early in the morning and I don’t want to wake the house. So, it may have just taken a long time to break in the drivers. Either way, I’m loving these speakers at this point. I just acquired a Line Magnetic 845 Premium and I’m blown away by how much better it sounds vs the 518. This is the best sound I’ve ever had and I really don’t think I’m making any changes for awhile. But, I have been following the Sachs 300b thread and might be interested in those down the road potentially, maybe. Once I sell the LM 518 and my Primaluna Evo300 amp (both are excellent but the 845P is in another league) I’ll probably get a solid state amp (thinking Atmasphere GaNFET) to use in the warmer months since the 845P is a heater as well as an amp. But, other than that I am sticking with the Nenuphar Mini’s.

@abd1 

What a marvelous (Delayed 😊) outcome for you. Very interesting and glad you shared this experience. I’m not at all surprised that the higher level/tier amplifier has made such an improvement. I happen to be one of those who believe strongly that amplifiers most definitely matter.

No doubt that your latest amplifier has better transformers/power supply/parts overall. It simply matters a lot. Your speakers are of such high quality that they will easily reveal any differences among amplifiers. Yours is a very good example of patience and diligence paying off in the end.

Charles

Hey guys. It’s good to be back. Charles has been encouraging and nudging me to do so. I had the privilege to finally meet him in person last month.

I chose to take a break from audio and pursue other hobbies, etc., over the past nine months. I’m still into all things audio (including Cube / Nenuphar) and have been recently exploring the world of higher end wireless / Bluetooth headphones.

Great to hear some of you, based on the recent posts, have been learning about and enjoying your Nenuphars / Jazzons.

There are private messages I need to respond to. I’ll get to them over the next day or two.

@david_ten Welcome back David! You were missed.

@abd1 It’s good to hear that your Nenuphar Mini’s have “come on voice”. I too experienced a VERY extended break-in period with my Nenuphar V2’s and sometimes doubted my choice during that time, but once the Nenuphars settled in I could not be happier.

Re: the Atma-Sphere GaNFET as a potential “warmer months” amplifier choice with your Nenuphar Minis; based on the published output impedance spec of ~0.010 ohms, their damping factor into an 8 ohm load would be very high, making them a poor compatibility choice with your Minis. As @whitestix ​​​​@charles1dad state above, amplifier choice is very critical to achieving balanced tonality with the Cube full-range drivers, so choose an amplifier with higher output impedance (think ~ 0.8 ohms optimally) and thus a low damping factor (think 10 or so optimally). The Enleum 23R is said by many to work very well.

The Enleum is also an amp that I'd consider, as well as LTA amps, which are tube based but don't get that hot.

I know the Cubes are supposed to sound better with low damped amps. I've tried a bunch of amps and have found these speakers sound great with all types. I tried a SIT-3 that everyone says pairs great and while I liked it I didn't find it that engaging and wound up selling it. I also tried an LSA GaNFET (with a tube pre) that was really inexpensive and I really liked it. It was a touch dry but also very detailed and transparent. I think what I've learned is some amps that on paper may not seem like a great match can sound excellent. One thing I love about these speakers is that they're transparent enough that it is fairly easy to hear almost any change in the system. That can be fun but also a little dangerous 😉

@dlcockrum

amplifier choice is very critical to achieving balanced tonality with the Cube full-range drivers, so choose an amplifier with higher output impedance (think ~ 0.8 ohms optimally) and thus a low damping factor (think 10 or so optimally). The Enleum 23R is said by many to work very well.

Absolutely right. Cube Audio very explicitly has made this point concerning low output impedance amplifiers ( High damping factor). Too much DF with their driver will be excessively damped, not good. I’d heed the guidance of the actual developers of this excellent speaker.

Charles

Great too see David Ten back on the thread!   Cheers.  

Great too see David Ten back on the thread!   Cheers

Agreed. 👍

Charles

What is too much damping?  The Cube Audio folks used solid state amps at a show I attended.  I assumed that they have a higher damping factor than most tube amps. If they do best with low damping factor, wouldn't they shine best with tube gear? 

@larryi Cube Audio primarily pairs their speakers with Tekron 2a3 SET tube amps for shows and demos. Sometimes the US Distributor uses First Watt SIT amplifiers at shows. Very unique solid state amplifiers designed by Nelson Pass that behave electrically and sonically like SET tube amps. The SIT-1 and SIT-2 have an output impedance of 4 ohms and a damping factor of 2 while the SIT-3 has a less ideal .25 ohm/30 DF rating. This review explains in all thoroughly: https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/cubeaudio2/6.html

@larryi

Cube Audio has explained in detail about their rationale for good amplifier-driver matching. No doubt that the speaker owners can choose what ever amplifier they want to.  Cube Audio is only offering informed guidance.

Charles 

@dlcockrum  @whitestix @charles1dad  Thanks!

I noticed a comment on the previous page regarding Refined Audio, so I just checked.  They continue to import and represent Cube Audio.

In fact, in case someone is interested: a Nenuphar BASiS is listed at a healthy discount  😊  here >>>>

Refined Audio Cube Audio Speakers

David,

I am surprised that the Jazzon speakers do not appear on their website.  

As part of the 're-entry' I perused my first audio classified listings email.

There is an Art Audio PX25 monoblock listing which would make for a wonderful pairing... if you are looking for a warmer sound. I do not know the listing party.

Here's the WBF Masters & Makers Interview of Mr. Rulka (by Ron Resnick).  Though primarily focused on his Qualio Audio brand, the discussion is general and provides insight into Grzegorz and Marek's thinking / approach / trade-offs. It briefly  touches on Cube Audio (in a few places).

WBF Interview of Greg Rulka