I really appreciate the detailed responses and the video link to my initial query. There's no doubt that this is a very good speaker, however, doesn't seem to be a good fit for my amps. Based on what I'm reading, it will most likely result in overdamping. Secondly, my concerns about the Neunephars being not the easiest to position are also somewhat confirmed by the responses.
I've also talked to some owners and sounds like resale is perhaps below average. I do see several used Cube Audio speakers going for less than 50% and still not moving. Of course, this does not mean they're less than stellar, but the fact remains that buying without first auditioning in my system is a risky endeavor -- especially, given the speakers are highly dependent on amp pairing. I don't want to go down the flea watt amp route at this time.
Having said that, I do want to explore speakers which are not your typical multiple dynamic cone drivers in an inert cabinet. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I'm kinda bored with the same old same old. I really like my Magnepan 3.7i speakers but they have several deficiencies that are hard to live with long term. I'm going to explore omni-directional -- MBLs or German Physiks as my next step. Again, thank you for taking the time to respond to my question.
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Why are they still in the crate!?
I enjoyed the SIT3 very much with the v2 drivers. I didn’t have it when I had the v1 drivers. I only sold it because I wanted an amp to use in the summer months instead of the LM845, which can moonlight as a heater, and it still got pretty hot for that purpose.
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@abd1 From what Ive read elsewhere the First Watt Sit amps work better with the V1 models due to the different ohms factor. Still have my V1 Mini's brand new in the crate (Ford Mustang Blue) Great write-up above. Im sure I'll find your notes very useful so thanks for that!!
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I’ve had a pair of Nenuphar mini’s upgraded to the v2 drivers for about 4-5 years. That is the longest I’ve owned a pair of speakers for which is saying something. They aren’t perfect but what they do well they do so well. They have just a very natural sound that is very detailed without sounding analytical. When set up properly and in a good space they image exceptionally well and deep. Being a single driver the sound is beautifully coherent. It’s hard for me to describe what that means until you hear it. They will pull out every ounce of performance from your system as they are very revealing. I’ve never had speakers that reveal changes in my system like these. Different amps, tubes, dacs, cables, etc. if you change something you will hear it. A friend of mine says they have a “lit up” sound, which I think is a good description. Theyre not bright but you hear everything in the music.
Regarding amps… I’ve used many with these speakers. As others have said I feel they sound best with low damped, low or zero negative feedback amps. I’ve used a few tube amps including a Tektron and even a 2 wpc 45 amp and they’ve all sounded fantastic. I’ve used the first watt SIT3 and some other solid state amps, including class D ganfet amps. None sounded bad but I’ve always gone back to the tubes with these speakers. I was actually surprised by the ganfet amp and the mids and highs were some of the clearest and most detailed I’ve heard. Bass had good detail too but wasn’t as weighty as the tube amps which I prefer. However, because I also have a pair of subs I’m not missing anything in the bass. Since you have subs you’ll have more options with amps with these speakers. From what I’ve read the reason these speakers like amps that have low damping is because the driver is well damped and controlled. Adding a high damping factor amp puts even more control on the driver perhaps restricting it somewhat in regards to bass. I’m not the designer or super techy but I either read or heard something like that about these drivers. I’m currently using a Line Magnetic LM845 Premium amp and an LTA ZOTL 40 Ref+ amp, both being fed by a Holo Serene KTE preamp. Both amps sound fantastic and different. The LTA is crystal clear and more detailed, unlike any other tube amp I’ve heard. And it should since it’s not like most tube amps, but it’s not a solid state sound either but it’s transparent like a solid state amp and I can hear very deep into the music. The Line Magnetic has a more romantic, fuller sound. Everything sounds more lush, perhaps a little bigger, but with slightly less detail. Both sound beautiful in their own ways.
As far as weaknesses of these speakers the bass isn’t going to thump you in the chest. But they do get very good bass probably into the lower 40hz region. The bass is also very tubeful and textured. Almost like an open baffle speaker but maybe with a bit more heft. Again, blend in a pair of subs and you won’t be lacking bass. I use a pair of REL S510s and my room is similar in size to yours and when my wife and I get into listening we can make the windows shake. My wife is actually the bass head and she loves these speakers with the RELs. So much so that I might upgrade to the REL carbon specials even though I already have plenty of output.
I would also say that I’ve learned that these speakers can be a little tricky to set up. I struggled for a while having the sound beam from the drivers. It would sound like headphones and the center image would pan left or right but not be separated from the speakers, which is one thing I love when listening to music. It was frustrating. But I learned that this can be common with single driver speakers because when you use a larger driver, especially in the vocal regions, the sound doesn’t disperse as much as something small like a 1” tweeter. My early attempts to create better imaging was to love the speakers further apart to the point they were really wide, hoping I would get a great center image. This failed miserably. I also played with toe in and got good results when I toed in aggressively, basically crossing the speakers a foot or so before the listening position. But doing this also created a narrow soundstage and did some weird things with the depth. One day I decided to try positioning again and since I had recently learned that single drivers can be prone to beaming I started with the speakers very close together and the started slowly moving them apart. That’s when I had the eureka moment. Basically, my experience is that these speakers like to be closer together than I’m used to. I would estimate I sit 12-15 feet from the speakers and they’re about 7’ apart. I also tow in slightly, 5-10 degrees. Now they image beautifully. I get depth, width outside the speakers and height. I will say I’ve had speakers with bigger sweet spots but i haven’t had speakers that are this pin point, deep and real sounding.
One other plus with these speakers is they are the best low volume speakers I’ve heard. That’s important to me because I often listen early in the morning when my wife is still sleeping. The music room is just outside the bedroom. I can listen at low volumes and not feel like I’m missing anything in the music and I’ve never woken her up.
I’ll end with this… About a year ago I told my wife I may want to try other speakers. Not because I don’t love the Nenuphar Mini’s but simply because I’ve had them a few years, longer than any speaker I’ve had, and just wanted to try something else. I’ve demo’s some speakers that I’ve lusted after but I still have the Nenuphars Minis. After each demo, even if I came away impressed with the other speaker, once I came back home and turned them on I was immediately resold on the Cubes. Are they perfect? No. But, to me, what they do well they do so very well. So much so that I can’t let my grip on them go. Or maybe it’s their grip on me that I can’t seem to separate from.
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I don't have the Mini's but have the Nenuphars with the upgraded v2 drivers. I believe both follows the same design philosophy. In my experience, the bass can be very anemic if you have an amp with high damping factor. The Cubes in general like low damping factor and least or no -ive feedback amps. When these two conditions are met, the Cubes do really sounds very musical. These speakers are ruthlessly revealing and will show every weakness or strength in your system. When I get a new cable or any component that needs break-in, I can't hear the speakers until the cables or components break-in totally. What I am trying to say is every small little things in the chain will matter in how they sound.
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Most use low powered tube amps with them. When Cube are doing audio shows they use TEKTRON amps with them which are Flea watt amps. First Watt SIT Amps are an excellent solid state pairing as well.
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I've been researching the Nenuphar Mini's for a few weeks. Given that there's no way for me to audition them, I have been mainly gathering data from youtube videos and forums like this. Frankly, the more I read, the more confused I get :)
Some people claim they are not easy to work with, requiring very specific amplification and being very fussy with placement. I've also heard that the bass is anemic. Yet, there are many who claim they're the best speakers they've owned regardless of price or pedigree.
In other words, there doesn't seem to be a consensus, which should not be surprising to most seasoned audiophiles, haha!
My question: how well will they do with Audio Research Reference 250 mono blocks. Here are the specs for the amp:
- Input Impedance: 200k ohms (balanced)
- Output Taps: 4, 8, and 16 ohms
- Output Regulation: Approximately 0.9dB 16 ohm load to open circuit (Damping factor approximately 10)
- Overall Negative Feedback: 8.8dB
- Input Sensitivity: 2.4V RMS Balanced for rated output (25.5 dB gain into 8 ohms)
- Power Output: 250 watts per channel continuous from 20Hz to 20kHz
- Frequency Response: 0.5Hz to 110kHz, -3dB with 1W output
- Power Bandwidth: 5Hz to 70kHz, -3dB
My room is roughly 20x15 with 11 foot ceilings. I do have a pair of subs to augment the lower frequencies.
Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
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I have read this thread with great interest and enjoyment. Thank you Charles and David and others for all the great information you have shared. I’ve learned a lot from your experiences and observations. I am a recent owner of a pair of Nenuphar speakers.
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Here's the WBF Masters & Makers Interview of Mr. Rulka (by Ron Resnick). Though primarily focused on his Qualio Audio brand, the discussion is general and provides insight into Grzegorz and Marek's thinking / approach / trade-offs. It briefly touches on Cube Audio (in a few places).
WBF Interview of Greg Rulka
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As part of the 're-entry' I perused my first audio classified listings email.
There is an Art Audio PX25 monoblock listing which would make for a wonderful pairing... if you are looking for a warmer sound. I do not know the listing party.
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David,
I am surprised that the Jazzon speakers do not appear on their website.
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I noticed a comment on the previous page regarding Refined Audio, so I just checked. They continue to import and represent Cube Audio.
In fact, in case someone is interested: a Nenuphar BASiS is listed at a healthy discount 😊 here >>>>
Refined Audio Cube Audio Speakers
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@larryi
Cube Audio has explained in detail about their rationale for good amplifier-driver matching. No doubt that the speaker owners can choose what ever amplifier they want to. Cube Audio is only offering informed guidance.
Charles
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@larryi Cube Audio primarily pairs their speakers with Tekron 2a3 SET tube amps for shows and demos. Sometimes the US Distributor uses First Watt SIT amplifiers at shows. Very unique solid state amplifiers designed by Nelson Pass that behave electrically and sonically like SET tube amps. The SIT-1 and SIT-2 have an output impedance of 4 ohms and a damping factor of 2 while the SIT-3 has a less ideal .25 ohm/30 DF rating. This review explains in all thoroughly: https://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/cubeaudio2/6.html
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What is too much damping? The Cube Audio folks used solid state amps at a show I attended. I assumed that they have a higher damping factor than most tube amps. If they do best with low damping factor, wouldn't they shine best with tube gear?
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Great too see David Ten back on the thread! Cheers
Agreed. 👍
Charles
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Great too see David Ten back on the thread! Cheers.
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@dlcockrum
amplifier choice is very critical to achieving balanced tonality with the Cube full-range drivers, so choose an amplifier with higher output impedance (think ~ 0.8 ohms optimally) and thus a low damping factor (think 10 or so optimally). The Enleum 23R is said by many to work very well.
Absolutely right. Cube Audio very explicitly has made this point concerning low output impedance amplifiers ( High damping factor). Too much DF with their driver will be excessively damped, not good. I’d heed the guidance of the actual developers of this excellent speaker.
Charles
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The Enleum is also an amp that I'd consider, as well as LTA amps, which are tube based but don't get that hot.
I know the Cubes are supposed to sound better with low damped amps. I've tried a bunch of amps and have found these speakers sound great with all types. I tried a SIT-3 that everyone says pairs great and while I liked it I didn't find it that engaging and wound up selling it. I also tried an LSA GaNFET (with a tube pre) that was really inexpensive and I really liked it. It was a touch dry but also very detailed and transparent. I think what I've learned is some amps that on paper may not seem like a great match can sound excellent. One thing I love about these speakers is that they're transparent enough that it is fairly easy to hear almost any change in the system. That can be fun but also a little dangerous 😉
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@david_ten Welcome back David! You were missed.
@abd1 It’s good to hear that your Nenuphar Mini’s have “come on voice”. I too experienced a VERY extended break-in period with my Nenuphar V2’s and sometimes doubted my choice during that time, but once the Nenuphars settled in I could not be happier.
Re: the Atma-Sphere GaNFET as a potential “warmer months” amplifier choice with your Nenuphar Minis; based on the published output impedance spec of ~0.010 ohms, their damping factor into an 8 ohm load would be very high, making them a poor compatibility choice with your Minis. As @whitestix @charles1dad state above, amplifier choice is very critical to achieving balanced tonality with the Cube full-range drivers, so choose an amplifier with higher output impedance (think ~ 0.8 ohms optimally) and thus a low damping factor (think 10 or so optimally). The Enleum 23R is said by many to work very well.
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Hey guys. It’s good to be back. Charles has been encouraging and nudging me to do so. I had the privilege to finally meet him in person last month.
I chose to take a break from audio and pursue other hobbies, etc., over the past nine months. I’m still into all things audio (including Cube / Nenuphar) and have been recently exploring the world of higher end wireless / Bluetooth headphones.
Great to hear some of you, based on the recent posts, have been learning about and enjoying your Nenuphars / Jazzons.
There are private messages I need to respond to. I’ll get to them over the next day or two.
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@abd1
What a marvelous (Delayed 😊) outcome for you. Very interesting and glad you shared this experience. I’m not at all surprised that the higher level/tier amplifier has made such an improvement. I happen to be one of those who believe strongly that amplifiers most definitely matter.
No doubt that your latest amplifier has better transformers/power supply/parts overall. It simply matters a lot. Your speakers are of such high quality that they will easily reveal any differences among amplifiers. Yours is a very good example of patience and diligence paying off in the end.
Charles
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@whitestix @charles1dad
I had a similar experience with my Nenuphar Mini’s. Bsically, the first year I owned them it was a love/hate experience. Often, I was enamored with the sound and loved the transparency without harshness. However, as my previous posts mention, I struggled with imaging and often the speakers would "beam" especially with vocals, and/or the soundstage would be tilted to the left side of the listening area, which I attributed to my room. However, I moved houses and have a bigger room and still had the issue.
I upgraded the drivers, tried different components, cables, power conditioners, amps, even Dirac room correction. And I tried positioning speakers all over and adjusted toe in. I even reoriented the entire room which helped but eventually my wife veto’d (to her credit she let me get away with it for a few months). Some changes made improvements but couldn’t quite get it to consistently sound the way I wanted.. One day earlier this year I was getting a little frustrated and went to a local store to demo some Sonus Faber’s which they had hooked up to a Luxman integrated (liked the speakers, but more impressed with the integrated). The imaging was excellent and I noticed the speakers were closer together than I had tried and toe’d in. I had tried putting mine close together but didn’t really try toing in. I went home and started with the speakers really close together (about 5’) and toed in so they "connected" at the MLP. It was an improvement. I started pulling the speakers further apart a few inches at a time and keeping toe in towards the MLP. Eventually I got to the spot they’re at now. I took measurements and made a diagram, just in case they get moved accidentally! Now, I’m getting amazing imaging, detail, depth depth depth (which I think is the hardest attribute to achieve) and tone. Speakers completely disappear. What’s interesting is that I’m pretty sure I’ve had the speakers in about the same spot as I ended up with, but maybe they’re toed in a little more and they’re a couple inches narrower. Just shows a couple inches can make a big difference. I also think it really did take a while for the drivers to break in. If some people say 100 hours, that’s listening for about 2 hours each week. Well, some weeks I don’t listen at all as I travel for work or am too busy. And, when I do listen I would say most of the time is at low volume as I’m working or it’s early in the morning and I don’t want to wake the house. So, it may have just taken a long time to break in the drivers. Either way, I’m loving these speakers at this point. I just acquired a Line Magnetic 845 Premium and I’m blown away by how much better it sounds vs the 518. This is the best sound I’ve ever had and I really don’t think I’m making any changes for awhile. But, I have been following the Sachs 300b thread and might be interested in those down the road potentially, maybe. Once I sell the LM 518 and my Primaluna Evo300 amp (both are excellent but the 845P is in another league) I’ll probably get a solid state amp (thinking Atmasphere GaNFET) to use in the warmer months since the 845P is a heater as well as an amp. But, other than that I am sticking with the Nenuphar Mini’s.
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@whitestix
wow!
Quite a dramatic transformation. I’m glad that you gave the speakers a 2nd chance. A shame if you had dumped them prematurely. I just truly believed that these speakers with your magnificent Don Sachs/Lynn Olsen built 300b push-pull amplifier would be a sublime pairing. It is genuinely great that this has turned out to be the case. Congratulations!
Charles
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I have had the Cube Jazzon speakers since late June of this year. David Ten has raved about Cube speakers on this thread and others and that is what I heard at Axpona when they were played with Pass Labs gear. Sensation speakers is what I heard.
I wanted to love them in my room and kinda did with my strong confirmation bias until I concluded that the were bereft of LF response and the expected spatiality and had nowhere nearly the ambient response I heard of them at Axpona.
To be honest, I put them up for sale as they came nowhere near to performing in my room to my liking with a stellar pair of 300b monos so bought a pair of Dynaudio C1 Signature speakers which I had before, loved their sound, but parted with them because I didn't fancy their blonde finish. Right, I know, a foolish sale, but the new Dyn's have the awesome mocca finish, pure eye candy and a sound to match. The Dyns will arrive next week.
At any rate, last Saturday I sat down for a long listening session and by God, the Jazzon speakers just blew me away.... sounding just like I heard at Axpona. Overnight, the speakers just blossomed with maybe 100 hours on them. I recall I had the same experience with my Spatial Audio M4 Triode Masters.... they sounded not that great until I had well over 100 hours on them and I might say that their sound improved mightily for the next few hundred hours.
My intent in my comments is to note that the Cubes speaker, in my estimation, take a wicked long time to run it to perform as they ultimately can do so don't be too impatient during the process... they will come alive at some point. They now are sensation speakers, with ample bass absent a subwoofer and have a poise and delicacy to the sound that is remarkable with a massive soundstage. You gotta part with some coin to acquire them and while I have not heard the upper-end line of Cube speakers, I am content that these provide a fair approximation of their more expensive line of speakers . The Cubes do require careful matching with you amplification as they match best with amps with a low damping factor, which inherently includes most all tube amps as well as the sensational Enleum SS amp as well as the Pass Labs First Watt ss amps.
Be patient with the run-in process with Cube speakers - and all new speakers, they can take a very long time to sound their best.
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is Refined audio still the distributor/dealer in US for the Cube product line ? I sent Jon two emails but no reply so far.
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I just checked - it was the v2 that was demoed to me. I think what I need to do is get it in my room and work with it. A bit of a risk, but I feel as though I can get it to the point that I’m happy with the frequency response.
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@dlcockrum
Thanks for your input. The comments are logical and make utter sense.
Charles
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@gavin1977 that frequency response curve for the Nenuphars is for the V1 version. Changes in cone configuration in the V2 version largely addressed what you describe (has a fuller midbass and less upper midrange rise). Yet, IME the V2 is still sensitive to toe-in much as the multiple lines on the V1 graph indicate.
Haven’t heard the Jazzon in person, but, as you say, its graph looks to support your experience, at least at whatever toe-in was used for that single line. It would be informative to see the graph at different toe-ins for the Jazzon. My bet, based on working with the Nenuphars, is that room placement/room treatment/toe-in optimization should go a long way toward improving the peaks and valleys shown with the Jazzon.
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vs lii audio ??????? vs audo nirvana????????
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Fully agree with the feedback regarding optimised chain of electronics - something I have experience with. The amplifiers being used here are the ones with a proven synergy.
Jazzon:
What I’m hearing is the above frequency response. Dip in lower mid-bass, then a rising frequency response - this tilted up frequency response means I end up trying to compensate with the volume control for the lack of mid-bass, which just makes vocals even more shouty.
Perhaps the Nenuphars don’t have this issue as much:
But I can’t say that I heard them as sounding completely flat either.
I wonder if I should have taken the time to hear the F8, which is a very flat frequency response.
Just trying to troubleshoot, as there’s real promise here and so don’t want to admit defeat just for the sake of a lack of optimisation.
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Hi Charles, @gavin1977 statement referred specifically to the F10 Select driver which is used in the Jazzon. The Nenuphar uses the F10 Neo driver, which has a quite different magnet assembly.
Could be that he intended the comment toward both drivers. Having owned Nenuphars for over a year and experienced the break-in and associated system-optimization learning curve, I can see where someone new to these crossover-less full-range speakers could form this impression IF the drivers are not fully broken-in OR IF the accompanying system is not sorted OR IF the toe-in is incorrect.
These speakers provide little cushion for mismatched components (especially regarding amplifiers), suboptimal setup, etc, and they produce tremendous energy across the frequency spectrum (no crossover to dumb down the dynamics of the incoming signal through parasitic loss), so ancillary components with a hot upper midrange can be problematic. However, getting these things sorted delivers a sound that is so fundamentally right that, for me, it is nigh impossible to imagine returning to standard multi-driver “crossover-ed” speakers.
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With the “many” owner feedback comments and reviews, this is the first time I have read the Nenuphars described as “shouty “ and forward.
Charles
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Just had a demo of a pair of Cube Audio Jazzon and Nenuphar - pretty similar level of performance to be honest, with the Nenuphar having an smidge more polish, detail and soundstage - but I would happily go for the F10 select given the cost/benefit ratio.
The F10 Select driver holds a lot of promise, detailed, dynamic, it does bass and has great width/height to the soundstage. But it was (for me) shouty and lacked soundstage depth because it was so forward in the vocal region. This was the same with two different amplifiers a 300b and an Enleum/Bakoon.
If the FR was equalised, and the presence region pushed back into the mix, then would this add depth to the soundstage as well as taming it shouty nature?
It’s a very tempting solution, but I still wonder if EQ is enough to ‘do the trick’ of righting the wrongs of a full range driver or if I should just stick with point source, but using multiple drivers…
…Or perhaps I should have listened to the F8 Magnus - smoother and more consistent frequency response by the looks of it?
Anyone else have a similar experience?
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@gavin1977 I had Bakoon 13R, very similar. Worked well imo with Nenuphar’s.
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@toetapaudio are you UK based and running the 23R? Please drop me a PM if you are.
@realworldaudio - great videos, I came across your channel a while back and have learnt a lot - so thanks! Have you ever heard the Cube in TQWT or MLTL vs your Voigt pipe? Difficult to know which enclosure best suits the Cube drivers...
Why F8 Magnus over F10 select? Seems as though the F8 Magnus has somewhat smoother frequency response...
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How did it sound with the higher damping factor. Better than expected -- a little drier perhaps and a shallower soundstage.
By the way, word is that Nelson has found a new source of industrial SITs. Apparently they are larger and produce more heat. There is a SIT-4 in the works, but it may be a monoblock configuration to dissipate the heat.
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I’ve seen this amp and was also intrigued by the switchable damping factor. How did it sound with the DF set at 250?
Anyone try any of the Luxman Class A integrateds with Nenuphars? I am curious to try the L590axII integrated and just simplify to that and a dac/streamer.
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I recently got a good deal on a used amplifier by Gold Note, the PA-10 ($2K new). It is their introductory power amp and, like the PA-1175, has a switch to change the damping factor to either 250 or 25. Of course I immediately set it to 25 and hooked it up to my Nenuphars.
I'm in the tube camp these days, but I'm going to keep the Gold Note as a backup in case my David Berning amp has to go to the shop. I'd rank the PA-10 below the SIT amps but slightly better with the Nens than the Bakoon. It has the usual virtues of solid state -- the bottom end, the detail. Vocals have good presence but lack the palpability of tubes and the floating decays, such as near the end of Scarborough Fair where Garfunkel's "parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme" floats off into the empyrean.
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Please keep us posted
Will do! Thanks for the kind words, and all your input throughout the thread.
My progress with this will be slow -- I'm just starting the preliminary work (planning, research). I'm in a good situation for taking my time on this one, as I'm already quite smitten with my Omegas. Eventually, I should have a well informed comparison between the two.
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On the downside, the bamboo ply is pretty expensive... I might pay around $1k in materials for this in total. I’m good with it, though -- I want to shoot for something really top notch on this job, both in form and function. Economically I’d still be coming in at around half the cost of a new set of Nenuphars
If I may humbly interject , Go for it with the Bamboo cabinets. Make this project special and beautiful. You are going to be utilizing a world class single driver that will sound fantastic with proper execution.
You certainly have the prerequisite skill set and experience to pull this off. Many do not. Take advantage of your know how and talent. Please keep us posted.
Charles
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@toetapaudio Likewise, I’m new to building speaker cabinets as well -- but, I have decades of woodworking and cabinet building to my credit, so I’m all ’tooled up’ for the job.
I just had a look at the Woden Designs page and found a design based around the Magus driver, called the "Rubik". I couldn’t load any info about it though. I’m not sure how it would play compared to Cube’s own design... I’d probably take the conservative route and opt for the latter, in the face of the unknown.
I like the idea of bamboo. I’ve been gathering what info I can about it over the past few weeks. It’s extremely stiff, while still being modest on weight (although not ’lightweight’ per say). It’s also high on the Jensen scale, so ’tough’. It’s harder than red oak, yet very dimensionally stable when constructed as a 3 or 5 ply. Aesthetically (totally subjective of course), I really like the look as well. Particularly, I love the way the edge grain can look like intricate inlay work if finished to showcase this, and this also is an ’easy’ cut to make. Oh, also, if purchased as a ’carbonized’ version, where it is pre-colored, this is accomplished through a baking process. This means the color is uniform through the entire piece, making sanding and cutting and finishing that much easier because consistent color will be maintained as we ’dig in’ to the material.
The vertical / edge grain ply has a unique look that grew on me, while the stranded grain appears a bit more like a traditional solid hardwood (and it’s even stiffer / more resilient than raw bamboo). As far as having a nice look but also being available in stable ply construction and available in standard 4x8’ sheets, this seems to be one of the better options. I usually work with solid hardwood, but of course it’s too dimensionally unstable for this application.
On the downside, the bamboo ply is pretty expensive... I might pay around $1k in materials for this in total. I’m good with it, though -- I want to shoot for something really top notch on this job, both in form and function. Economically I’d still be coming in at around half the cost of a new set of Nenuphars, I figure... instead, I pay through sweat, maybe some tears, but hopefully no blood :0.
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@djembeplay thanks for the details. Probably you know that every material used in audio has a sonic signature. One can test by introducing different materials under equipment and listening to the change in sound. I haven’t tried building cabinets yet but considering. Some say spruce is better than birch ply, mdf giving the least good results. Apart from the plans on Cube, I understand that Scott at Woden Designs has undertaken some designs for Cube drivers.
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@charles1dad Thanks also for fortifying my thinking about the Yamamoto -- we in the low watt SET camp have to tread very carefully with our speaker selections, so it’s good to know I’m not ’off in space’ thinking this would be a nice combo.
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Hi @toetapaudio - glad to hear your endorsement for the Yamamoto. For the cabinet, I'm planning on building the plan on their site that's labeled "F10 Neo / F10 DIY cabinet" at 1000mm x 600mm x 320mm. This looks like the closest of the two designs they published to what they are using in the Nenuphar. I'll build everything exactly to plan, except my material may end up being slightly thicker -- I'm thinking about using 3/4" stranded or vertical bamboo ply, built over an inner box of 1/4" or 3/8" Baltic Birch, with a thin silicone layer between the two materials... sort of a 'ply - spring - ply' layer. This will let me build the inner box with less attention to aesthetics (exposed fasteners, rough edges, etc.), while creating a form with exact right angles to layer the bamboo on top of. Those are the plans for now at least... Summer is still a ways off, and parable quotes of mice and men applies suitably here.
Like you, I did notice that the Nenuphar is built differently to the published design I'm looking at. The two major differences I can see is that the Nenuphar is 500mm deep instead of 600mm, and it's bottom ported instead of rear ported. It's also listed as being 5mm higher, but this might be taking the gained height of the front floor spikes into account.
I do wonder why there is a difference between the Nenuphar and the DIY plans... I'm planning to write Cube to ask them. Perhaps they have a proprietary design in the Nenuphar that they don't want to publish for marketing reasons, which would be understandable... or, perhaps they just updated their design at some point and haven't likewise updated the DIY plans... shrug.
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@djembeplay
I believe that your Yamamoto 45 amplifier will be a very good pairing with the Nenuphars given the intended use.
Charles
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Hi @djembeplay sounds like a great project. What design are you considering and type of wood? Just in case you are not aware, the plans on the Cube website are different to what they use for their own complete builds.
Yamamotos will be a great match I would think.
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I wanted to tip my hat to everyone who has been active in this thread. After months of research, I’m pretty solid on the idea of building my own cabinets this summer and eventually purchasing a pair of Cube F10 Neo drivers... Pretty great that Cube offers this as an option, and also openly shares their cabinet design. As a guy with plenty of woodworking experience and not a huge audio budget, this is right up my ally.
This thread verified multiple times that my Yamamoto A-08s 2wpc 45 SET amplifier should be a beautiful match for low to moderate level listening in a ’far nearfield’ situation, maybe in the range of 6-9 feet from each speaker. When I first looked at Cube, I wrote them off because I figured 92dB sensitivity was too low for my 45s... however, given the easy / flat impedance and particular design of this unique driver, it sounds like it should be suitable.
My current speakers, a set of Omega CAMs, are rated 94.5dB, and I have all the volume I need while staying far away from the Yamamoto’s power limits. I don’t think a 2.5dB loss in efficiency will be earth shattering, but I’m only working off of theory here... Of course, the idea that the Cube will be an upgrade over my Omegas is pure theory as well :).
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