Has anyone upgraded their Sonus Faber crossover, internal wiring, and binding post? I'm a cable and amplifier believer as not all cables and amps sound the same. Using that same mindset, I believe that upgrading the crossover and internal wiring would also yield positive results and keep in my speakers longer versus upgrading.
I think the differences could be minor... but if you are hankering for tweaks my suggestion is go build a kit first and the do your own experimentation with everything from wiring to caps.
The biggest issue I see with your approach is that if you suffer from chronic creative dissatisfaction you are never going to want to stop, or by the time you do what you are really after is an entirely new set of speakers but your originals are now so different you can't sell them.
Check Madisound, Meniscus and Parts Express for excellent kits to serve as a starting point for your next adventure.
I should also say that once you start seriously looking for kits to build check out the Parts Express or diyaudio discussion forums. Both filled with helpful people with first hand experience building.
Ii have been rebuilding loudspeaker Xovers for over 20 years
Tony Gee from Humble homemade hifi capacitor test
have a cook book of each brands rankings and sound and is roughly 90% accurate
many time he doe’s not not have time for them to fully open up
higher voltage say 800 v or foil types normally take longer .
Newer Sonus Faber use Mundorf Evo Aluminum oil caps Which are decent but you can do much better and get a big improvement , the resistors too absolutely
mundorf supreme are prettygood , Path Audio are my favorite andi use Jantzen waxed paper Copperfoil inductors , open coil is very good after theCopper foils awg 14 for me ideal ,,Jantzen Alumen Z aluminum foil not too pricy and muchbetter then Anythung Sonus Faber uses just the caps and resistors alone a solid 10% upgrade better in every respect ,and these are Aluminum foil type
inside youcan read theUF or size on the capacitors ,
theresistorstoo should show how many ohms ,ifyou can’t read them ,leave them the caps are by far most important , the loudspeakerterminals WBT next gen excellent value , and the flat on the inside made for crimping slide on. WBT or Furutech
VH audio sells both ,highpurity Copper then gold plated ,much better conductivity
then solderehich is mostly tin ,for caps use Cardas solder excellent sound and has flux rosin built in flows nice , Donot use a solder pen spend $100+ on a good-solder station
In the vintage car world, we break things into 3 categories:
- showroom stock
- personalized
- modified
The category that aligns with your Hifi world depends on your "what does it look like when it is finished?" answer. Your personal commitment and resale value are major factors here. The most popular car catagory is "personalized." When upgrades are completed, you keep all the old parts and bring it back to "showroom stock" if needed. Cutting sheet metal is an instant disqualifier of (reasonably) returning to original. Thus is.whacking away at a chassis or speaker enclosure.
We’re with @audioman58on the subject of "getting things out of the way that make it sound worse" mentality. Our philosphy for the least intrusive, keep "everything" there that the factory put in the box" is to look at connection methods and connectivity. Remove spades and lugs, direct silver solder, and bypass PC traces on the board with point-to-point wiring (if applicable). We’ve also learned that cables have a profound effect on SQ -- even short runs of 12" -- or less. You picked your amp --> speaker cables after intensive listening sessions and learned that various speaker cables sound "different." While there is a good chance that the internal cables are high quality, they may not align with your concept of what "high end" speaker cables should sound like. So, replacing those cables with your concept of the ideal cable (or close to it) can be a game changer.
As a "modder", our goal is not to "paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa", but deliver the sound that is characteristically "as the designer intended" IF the designer would have had the time, budget, unburdened from in-field service considerations, applied "newer thinking", etc.
@audioman58+1 So, lets say you're only changing out parts while keeping stock values. You're not creating some Frankenstein monster here, and you could add parts in small increments so as to only have one variable at a time, don't let the naysayers deter. You should also understand exactly what you're trying to improve, going in there willy nilly and changing out parts not good. Generally, these boutique parts are going to improve resolution/transparency, may also affect tonal balance, timbre. You also need to be aware crossover changes may expose some new flaw elsewhere in system, synergy may prove to be problematic. Now, all this assuming you have experience with soldering, modifications. If not, practice with kits is a good idea.
Check out the GR RESEARCH website. They specialize in this and are extraordinarily knowledgeable. They also have lots of YouTubes on the subject.
I have built one of their big speaker kits with their top flight crossover component selections and most of the people in our audio club feel these speakers compete effectively with some of the most expensive speakers in the club.
Before going to the expense of swapping out expensive parts in a over.
Consider which Wire Type can be used between Over and Driver.
Wire Types I am an advocate of, are D. U. C. C
and PC Triple C.
These can be a Sole used Wire or a mix for different Drivers.
D. U. C. C will add a hint of a fullness to a base note, or enriched a Upper Frequency with a little weight to notes or vocal.
PC Triple C is removing smearing many many Wire Types add, it makes OCC sound muddled and veiled.
If these Wire Types do what is suggested and are liked, why not extend their usage to being Speaker Cables connected to high quality copper connectors and also attached to high quality copper connectors on both Speaker and Amp.
This will bring substantial and discernible improvement improvement.
The Xover can be left untouched while the new experience is being savoured.
If the Cover does come back under the radar, the prep' to get the best is already done
What model SF speakers are you thinking about tinkering with?
I know that SF use parts that some say are below what they should be using, but changing an iron core for an air core probably won’t make much of a noticeable difference. And on another vein, mine have an 8 year warranty on them that I’d hate to muck with. As others have mentioned, the resale value probably won’t go up a penny even though you added a thousand dollars worth of new parts.
If you are a believer of Cable and Amps, then your gear is resolving enough. With that said, and if your handy and good with soldering iron, then I think you should give the Speaker an upgrade. Just be sure you do not Frankenstein the Sonus faber
My piece of advice is to NOT change the component values, but change the crossover component parts brand, to say Mundorf, V-caps, Dueland and Jupiter. I get mine from partsconnection. It's easy to replace caps as you can read it, but for inductors, a bit harder specially if nothing is written on it. I have an Agilent LCR meter to measure inductance.
I have done this to my friends and my own home theater speakers (B&W and Klipsch) and I can tell you, i can here improve sonics and for the center speaker, a better dialog. So yes, just changing the brand of parts in the crossover can do wonders and its fun
I'm tempted to say the change from iron core inductors to Jantzen air core inductors may have been the greatest upgrade to my crossovers. However, this after high quality film cap, point to point wiring, silver solder mods. In another speaker inductor replacement was less impactful. With crossover mods everything has to be taken on case by case basis, shouldn't apply generalizations.
Any crossover upgrade attempt has to be done with willingness to backtrack if your expensive substitution does not work. There is no such thing as a universally better component—if something changes the sound, thst change can be for the better or worse. The switch to air core inductors usually are an improvement. Iron cores are usually used because they are compact and low cost.
Different caps are tricky because people vary in their preference much more and caps take a long time to break in and stabilize; I’ve changed my mind sometimes weeks after an initial impression. I observed a custom speaker being tuned to a customer’s preference. The builder started with some very expensive paper in oil caps, but switched to “cheaper” film caps based on the buyer’s preference; the cheaper caps cost $400 each.
@pindacWtF are you on about - AGAIN?? I believe it's you who've done this before - typed unknown character strings expecting us all to know WtF you're trying to say! STOP these dumb and useless characters that no-one understands.
OP - a decade ago I changed the XO parts in my JBL L100 Century's, and the difference, once 'run in' was amazing - in a good way. I'm currently investigating changing out the XO parts in my maggie 1.7i's, as the quality of those original parts is,,,, garbage. Even Magnapan, now that Jim has gone, have woken up to this (or 'allowed' to) and are now producing speakers with an 'X' after the model number, which shows that they have much improved XO parts and, 'supposidly' (anyone heard an A/B between an X model and a standard model?) sound a LOT better. Mind you, the X models add a MASSIVE, c50%, to the price!
@daveteauk It is impossible to relate to you as anything but a Browbeater, your Colours are seemingly clear to be seen on the Mast.
For Record Keeping Purposes, I am not offended by display of a reactive mannerism, which as a result of prior content added, can only be the result of Your Ignorance.
I am informing an individual the BOM for an investigation to change the End Sound produced from a Speaker, does not need to start with spending silly monies on Xover Components and having to accept the subjective evaluation of another is the evidence to suggest the big spend is worth it. There are much more affordable ways to have the initial experience of an End Sound. Ask those who have shown the Bottle to Terminate Wires onto the Voice-coil by-passing the Drivers Tab Connections how much they felt was needed to substantially impact a betterment on the Speakers produced End Sound.
None of my communication with an OP or others who may see it has Jack Poo to do with another contributor if my content is not a challenging contrary to supplied info from another's contribution.
I hope the following proves useful for your long term wellbeing
11 Anger Management Strategies to Help You Calm Down
Managing anger can help your body and brain respond to stress in healthy ways
Failing to manage your anger can lead to a variety of problems like saying things you regret, yelling at your kids, threatening your co-workers, sending rash emails, developing health problems, or even resorting to physical violence. But not all anger issues are that serious. Instead, your anger might involve wasting time thinking about upsetting events, getting frustrated in traffic, or venting about work.
Managing anger doesn't mean never getting angry. Instead, it involves learning how to recognize, cope with, and express your anger in healthy and productive ways. Anger management is a skill that everyone can learn. Even if you think you have your anger under control, there’s always room for improvement.
While anger itself isn't a mental illness, in some cases, anger can be connected to mood disorders, substance use disorders, and other mental health conditions.1
Since unchecked anger can often lead to aggressive behavior, anger management uses various techniques to help a person cope with thoughts, feelings, and behaviors in a healthy and more productive way.
So, you may be wondering, How do I become less angry? While change may not happen overnight, there are plenty of strategies you can use to cope with your anger.
Verywell / Cindy Chung
Take the Anger Test
This short, free 21-item test measures a variety of symptoms and feelings associated with anger, such as anger about the present and future, anger towards the self, and hostile feelings toward others.
This anger quiz was medically reviewed by Rachel Goldman, PhD, FTOS.
Research consistently shows that cognitive behavioral interventions are effective for managing anger.2 These interventions involve changing the way you think and behave. They are based on the notion that your thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are all connected. (Cognitive behavioral interventions are also taught in anger management therapy.)
Your thoughts and behaviors can either fuel your emotions or they can reduce them. So, if you want to shift your emotional state away from anger, you can change what you’re thinking and what you’re doing.2 Without fuel, the fire inside you will begin to dwindle and you'll feel calmer.
The best method for managing anger is to create an anger management control plan. Then, you'll know what to do when you start feeling upset.
The following are 11 strategies to manage anger and to include in your anger management control plan.
Identify Triggers
If you’ve gotten into the habit of losing your temper, take stock of the things that trigger your anger. Long lines, traffic jams, snarky comments, or excessive tiredness are just a few things that might shorten your fuse.
While you shouldn't blame people or external circumstances for your inability to keep your cool, understanding the things that trigger your anger can help you plan accordingly.
You might decide to structure your day differently to help you manage your stress better. Or, you might practice some anger management techniques before you encounter circumstances that you usually find distressing. Doing these things can help you lengthen your fuse—meaning that a single frustrating episode won’t set you off.
Consider Whether Your Anger Is Helpful or Unhelpful
Before you spring into action to calm yourself down, ask yourself if your anger is a friend or an enemy. If you’re witnessing someone’s rights being violated or you are in an unhealthy situation, your anger might be helpful.
In these cases, you might proceed by changing the situation rather than changing your emotional state. Sometimes, your anger is a warning sign that something else needs to change—like an emotionally abusive relationship or a toxic friendship.
Being angry might give you the courage you need to take a stand or make a change.
If, however, your anger is causing distress or hurting your relationships, your anger may be an enemy. Other signs of this type of anger include feeling out of control and regretting your words or actions later. In these situations, it makes sense to work on tackling your emotions and calming yourself down.
Recognize Your Warning Signs
If you're like some people, you may feel like your anger hits you in an instant. Perhaps you go from calm to furious in a heartbeat. But there are still likely warning signs when your anger is on the rise. Recognizing them early can help you take action to prevent your anger from reaching a boiling point.
Think about the physical warning signs of anger that you experience. Perhaps your heart beats faster or your face feels hot. Or, maybe you begin to clench your fists. You also might notice some cognitive changes. Perhaps your mind races or you begin “seeing red.”
By recognizing your warning signs, you have the opportunity to take immediate action and prevent yourself from doing or saying things that create bigger problems. Learn to pay attention to how you're feeling and you'll get better at recognizing the warning signs.
Step Away From the Triggering Situation
Trying to win an argument or sticking it out in an unhealthy situation will only fuel your anger. One of the best anger management exercises is to remove yourself from the situation if you can.
How to Control Anger Immediately
Walking away from a triggering situation can be an excellent way to take control of your anger. When a conversation gets heated, take a break. Leave a meeting if you think you’re going to explode. Go for a walk if your kids upset you. A time-out can be key to helping you calm your brain and your body.
If there’s someone that you routinely get into heated disputes with, like a friend or family member, talk with them about the importance of taking a time-out and resuming when you're both feeling calm.
When you need to step away, explain that you aren’t trying to dodge difficult subjects, but that you’re working on managing your anger. You aren't able to have a productive conversation or resolve conflict when you’re feeling really upset. You can rejoin the discussion or address the issue again when you're feeling calmer.
Sometimes it helps to set a specific time and place when you can discuss the issue again. Doing so gives your friend, colleague, or family member a sense of peace that the issue will indeed be discussed—just at a later time.
Talk Through Your Feelings
If there’s someone who has a calming effect on you, talking through an issue or expressing your feelings to that person may be helpful. It’s important to note, however, that venting can backfire.
Complaining about your boss, describing all the reasons you don’t like someone, or grumbling about all of your perceived injustices may add fuel to the fire. A common misconception is that you have to vent your anger to feel better.
But studies show you don’t need to “get your anger out.”3 Smashing things when you’re upset, for example, may actually make you angrier. So it’s important to use this coping skill with caution.
Likewise, if you’re going to talk to a friend, make sure you’re working on developing a solution or reducing your anger, not just venting. It's unfair to use them as your go-to sounding board. Instead, you might find that the best way to use this strategy is to talk about something other than the situation causing you to feel angry.
Anger gives you a rush of energy. One of the best anger management exercises is quite literally to exercise and engage in physical activity.4 Whether you go for a brisk walk or hit the gym, working out can burn off extra tension.
Regular exercise also helps you decompress. Aerobic activity reduces stress, which might help improve your frustration tolerance.4 Additionally, exercise allows you to clear your mind. You may find that after a long run or a hard workout you have a clearer perspective on what was troubling you.
Focus on the Facts
Angry thoughts add fuel to your anger. Thinking things like, “I can’t stand it. This traffic jam is going to ruin everything,” will increase your frustration. When you find yourself thinking about things that fuel your anger, reframe your thoughts.
Instead, think about the facts by saying something like, “There are millions of cars on the road every day. Sometimes, there will be traffic jams.” Focusing on the facts—without adding in catastrophic predictions or distorted exaggerations—can help you stay calmer.5
You also might develop a mantra that you can repeat to drown out the thoughts that fuel your anger. Saying, "I'm OK. Stay calm," or "Not helpful," over and over again can help you minimize or reduce angry thoughts.
Ruminating about an upsetting situation fuels angry feelings. If, for example, you’ve had a bad day at work, rehashing everything that went wrong all evening will keep you stuck in a state of frustration.
The best way to calm down quickly might be to change the channel in your brain and focus on something else altogether.
Telling yourself “Don’t think about that,” isn’t always successful. The best way to mentally shift gears is to distract yourself with an activity. Do something that requires your focus and makes it more challenging for angry or negative thoughts to creep in.
Some examples might include deep-cleaning the kitchen, weeding the garden, paying some bills, or playing with the kids. Find something to do that will keep your mind occupied enough that you won’t ruminate on the things upsetting you. Then, your body and your brain can calm down.
Breathe and Relax
There are many different anger management exercises that involve relaxation. The key is to find the one that works best for you. Breathing exercises and progressive muscle relaxation are two common strategies for reducing tension.6
The best part is, both exercises can be performed quickly and discreetly. So whether you’re frustrated at work or you’re angry at a dinner engagement, you can let go of stress quickly and immediately.
It’s important to note, however, that relaxation exercises take practice. At first, you might not feel as though they’re effective, or you might question whether they’re going to work for you. But with practice, they can become your go-to strategies for anger management.
Acknowledge Your Underlying Emotion
Sometimes it helps to take a moment and think about what emotions might be lurking beneath your anger. Anger often serves as a protective mask to help you avoid feeling more painful emotions, like embarrassment, sadness, and disappointment.
When someone gives you feedback that’s hard to hear, for example, you might lash out in anger because you’re embarrassed. Convincing yourself the other person is bad for criticizing you might make you feel better in the moment because it keeps your embarrassment at bay. But acknowledging underlying emotions can help you get to the root of the problem. Then, you can decide to take appropriate action.
For instance, if someone cancels plans on you and your underlying emotion is disappointment, you could try explaining how the cancellation makes you feel rather than lashing out in anger. When you're honest about your feelings, you're more likely to resolve the issue. Responding in anger usually doesn't accomplish anything except pushing people away.
Avoid Suppressing Your Anger
Getting to the underlying cause of your anger is much more effective than suppressing your anger. Though it can be tempting to try to minimize an undesirable emotion, you are likely to cause even more stress by denying your anger altogether.
Create a "Calm-Down" Kit
If you tend to come home from work stressed and take out your anger on your family, or you know that workplace meetings cause you a lot of frustration, create a calm-down kit that you can use to relax.
Think about objects that help engage all your senses. When you can look, hear, see, smell, and touch calming things, you can change your emotional state. So a calm-down kit might include scented hand lotion, a picture of a serene landscape, a spiritual passage you can read aloud, and a few pieces of your favorite candy. Include things that you know will help you remain calm.
You also might create a virtual calm-down kit that you can take everywhere. These are things that you can call upon when needed and are more portable. For instance, calming music and images, guided meditation, or instructions for breathing exercises could be stored in a special folder on your smartphone.
Get Advice From The Verywell Mind Podcast
Hosted by therapist Amy Morin, LCSW, this episode of The Verywell Mind Podcast shares some techniques that can help you relax.
Hello. Not sure which speakers you have but share my personal experience. I have a pair of JBL L100T's purchased new in '87. They were always just a tad bright on the high's but certainly listenable. Noticed this guy on eBay called the crossover chef , he makes upgraded crossovers for about 40 different speakers including all the vintage JBL's @ about $400 delivered. His ad lets you know it's a 3-4 month wait so that says something. I sprung , they arrived almost 4 mo later and are twice the size of the originals. Had a hi-fi guy help me install them and wow I now have different speakers quite an improvement. The high's are smoother , as is the midrange and more low bass without being muddy. Best $400 I ever spent.
What is it about the speakers that you don't like that you are trying to improve?
If you intend to open up the crossovers to rewire them, you will get FAR MORE "difference" by changing the value an internal resistor or capacitor by even just a small amount while you are in there.
Remember that "factory-built" speakers are auditioned in an entirely different setting than your room, and a bit of crossover tweaking may pay off in spades..., if you know what you are doing.
Cardas solder excellent sound and has flux rosin built in flows nice , Donot use a solder pen spend $100+ on a good-solder station
+1 on both counts. Cardas solder is actually quite good, albeit not inexpensive (the cheapest source as of this writing is the diyaudio store). Flows well, low melting point, it's a treat to use. Honestly it's not a lot better than the Delta 62/36/2 I used to use, but the Delta isn't that much cheaper either.
I have a 200W AiXun T3A soldering station I really like, it was like $100 including a selection of C245 active tips. Recommended
Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. None of what you're suggesting will make them sound better. You just need to get different speakers. Different sounding cables/wires? Come on, man. Don't be willfully ignorant.
If my Google Translate has not remained in English, a right click and select Translate will allow a little further reading on the properties known with the wire type.
The info shared in the Link pretty much shows why the Wire Type was wrote as it was when it was first referencedt.
As for the Connector at the Cabinet. The link has a broad range of designs and costs.
My own math at the moment suggests the exchange of a insitu wire to the referred to Wire Type and exchange of insitu Connectors on Two Cabinets, is achievable for $130ish if using Pure Copper but not getting too caught up with the Brand.
@zx10 thanks for the info on the crossover chef. I also have a pair of JBL 100T's that I bought new in 1987. I have been thinking about replacing caps. Never done anything like this myself. Now I'm thinking about buying a pair of crossovers from crossover chef instead. Good to have options and a recommendation on vendor.
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