Hi, could you update us on how those silver cables are performing? I have been wanting to try pure silver for awhile and those seem very nice.
Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
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@roxy54 writing on sphone is something that I hate even with short tmsg, not to mention for posts here. English is not my native language but if you have problem understanding the text, which is quite simple, I might try drawing it to you, like they do in books for small children... |
Few years back I did what ghdprentice did, but in reverse way. At the time I had full Burmester system (001, 011, 956mk2) and had the opportunity to get my hands on original Nordost Odins' (first series) Ic's and power cables. (without speaker wires) Used quite qood AQ Sterling Audiotruth cables andthe speakers were SF Guarneri H. Even had an another amp (Krell Evo 302) because I wanted to compare directly Krell to Burmester (wrote a small post about it on Ag as well) To cut long story short, the Odins were really great, even between Krell amp and Burmester preamp (tried that combination as well aldo somehow I thought that Krell and Nordost would not be a match, but it prooved to be otherwise) I am sure that there are enough descriptions on web about the 'sound' of Odins, so no need trying to be 'poetic' about it now. Just to say that they are much 'better' than Valhalla's (had them too, except the speaker wire) and without 'that typical' Nordost 'sound' which may or may not be prefered by some. Now the interesting part. While I had them, I tried few other IC's on place of one or another IC, just to see how big the difference would be. The cables I swap were mostly different AQ silver IC's (Diamond x3, Cheetah and Blue Yonder and Wireworld gold eclipse, cant remeber which number) I did not like the BY, but with rest I 'could live', aldo I admit that generally I do not like or use Cheetah (not all AQ silver cables are 'good' in my humble opinion) While changing cables I realised that finding Ic's that could replace Odin's would be easier that finding different power cables that could do so, but the reason for it might be because they 'complement' with Burmester gear very nicely. After series of different cable trials I have found one not overly expensive Synergistic Resaarch power cable that worked great on my Burmester 001 player ( still have that cable now on even better B. 089 player) On the other hand, I gave one power cable for a loan to a firend who had ARC Ls 17 se and he said that he prefferd that sound (arc 17 with Odin) more than his later ARC 27 with some other cables, if that information is worth to anybody. (maybe he just did not try many cables on that preamp) My point is that nobody should 'lust' over real Odin's (or anything else for that matter, but thats another story) because, Imho, no matter how 'good' they sound, they are afterall system dependent (like everything else) and will work best on very pricey gear but for far amount less money man can find cables that will provide him quite 'good' sound, even more so if one's gear is not in that category (if price is any indication of quality) With cables that are long on market, more or less you know what kind of 'sound' you might expect (more people have them and you can read other experiences or try those cables easier) and with that chinese stuff, aldo not expensive, its just one shot, hit or miss. At the end, as some wise man said, the most expensive things are ones that you do not need, no matter how cheap they might be. You might discovery what 'house' sound those chinese cables have (that could be helpful for others too) but with so many of you buying those cables (and in the same time you all have very different systems) I simply cant believe that those cables are good for all of you...or that you cant find something 'better' just for your system...just my 2 cent, as they say...
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@roxy54 they are from seller “Audio Accessary” https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804102330185.html the seller was great. Talked via chat and ordered on night of Oct 16th and received today. They said choose the free shipping and sent via FedEx IP. The listing is with gold bananas but I asked if they could do the rhodium VB401R bananas which they sell separately and they said sure. Very happy. Great built quality and sound great so far. |
The "problem" with the Chinese knock offs is that there are so many variants of them that it is difficult to find any general consensus as to which one might be "the best". And it is a subjective hobby with subjective listening preferences. The reading that I’ve done (some here, most on other forums) suggested that the newer Odin Golds were the ones which rated the highest among users, but it would be fair to say that most of those users probably preferred a slightly warmer overall presentation in their interconnects, which was what I was interested in. I ordered a pair of Chinese Nordost Odin Gold IC’s (RCA to RCA with the fake Holo plugs) off Aliexpress to test them out and was very pleased with them. The end result: I ordered 4 more sets of IC’s at a total cost of $250 Cnd delivered-these replace IC’s in both my main and secondary system. I sold off two sets of very highly thought of interconnects in the main system (one was 1.5 m and the other .7 m) that have a retail price of $800 Cnd. (I bought one set new and one used) for $500, put $250 in my pocket and ended up with much better performance in both systems. Consider me happy. I might cryo and have the fake Odin Golds burned in after that at some point, but even without that treatment they definitely outperformed a very good set of OCC copper IC’s terminated with genuine Furutech plugs. Hard to believe that anyone buying the Chinese Odin Golds with the holo plugs at $50 a pop for 1M pairs would be disappointed. |
Seems like a reasonable option, considering you might learn a little more about what you are getting without cutting it open to discover the mystery prize inside. Compare a lower price authentic cable from a legitimate manufacturers product against a cheaply priced counterfeit one. One might be surprised which one actually sounds better.
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Well, for me… I am not interested in playing around with more cables… I did extensive research among well reviewed cables, auditioned and chose what worked best on my system. The only reason I tried these was because of this thread. I was interested in forming my own opinion. Once in a while, I go test my intuition. I will test things internally think just “couldn’t be”… to make sure I am maintain my objectivity. I remember nearly 18 years ago I was having an heated discussion with a climate change denier. I realized I had not refreshed my true knowledge for ten years. So, I went back and built my knowledge from scratch. I read source publications, NOAA, NASA, a couple summary books, fundamental peer review papers. I even deeply researched the two legitimate scientists that claimed climate change was not real… I literally found the tax documents showing one had received $500,000 from oil companies and that he had founded a radical fundamentalist church (the documents of him founding the church were on line… and news about it). Well, my internal knowledge was good on that one. Ok… sorry, got sidetracked.
So, if I needed cables would I buy and try these? No. I really do have an ethical problem… they are certainly no Nordost killers. There are lots of well reviewed cables at all price points available from companies that do their own research and development and cross no ethical boundaries. Buy from them. |
@decooney Yep + 100 imagine the improvements and getting real OCC copper. |
I replaced 2 WW XLR ICs ($$$$) and a Pangea Premier SE Coax ($MSRP $169) with fake Odin IIs (purchased from DIY HiFi). Out of curiosity, later I ordered a Odin Gold XLR. First I had it going to my Audio Alchemy DDP-1 dac and the Fake Odin II to my LSA Voyager GaN 350. After a couple months, I kept thinking to swap the 2 XLRs: the improvement was amazing, so I ordered another Gold, which is scheduled to arrive in the next 2 weeks. Ill report once I get them broken in
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Ok, following up with my testing of the 1.5 meter fake Nordost Odin 2 XLR. I made preliminary comments when I first received them. Recounting a little, I used them to replace my Transparent Ultra between my ARC REF DAC and ARC REF 6SE. Find my earlier post. I burned them in on another system for at least 120 hours be for putting them back into my main system. I feel that burning them in has notably reduced the overt harshness and dropped the noise floor slightly. In comparison the the Transparent the fake Odin2 had a notably less dynamic presentation, the voices and mid-range less fleshed out with an overall less natural presentation, the background less quiet. I did not feel interested in continuing the experiment after three minutes… although I am sure I could greatly increase the details of my assessment with more time. Life is too short. Now how to communicate how big a difference. It was not huge… not even remotely component level or radio shack versus high end. But on the other hand, I am sure my partner who is not interested in my system and listens for five minutes every two years would have chosen the Transparent over the fake ODin2 in less than 10 seconds. For me, I have spent a lot of time and money to carefully get the most out of my system… they have no home here. Are these giant killers at $100… well no. But they are not terrible. My system is very detailed with a very deep and well defined soundstage… which very musical and natural. Through put anything not completely neutral in it, and you hear it. So, for me, they have no place in my system. I’ll throw them on the pile of extra interconnects I have. I have a couple friends that are building systems, I’ll lend them these, let them see what they think. I hope this is useful. In my younger days I would pull out my half dozen “standard” interconnects and compare: Harmonics, Straight Wire, Cardas, and a couple more. Folks in the Sub - $1000 purchase realm would have to compare themselves… which is usually the case anyway. They are very inexpensive.
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@bigtwin are you using a full cable loom? are you burnin in both interconnects and speaker cable at once? Just so you know, I have two runs of Chinese Odin speaker cable, one going from the low mids / bass amp to the bass horns, and one going from the mids/high amp to the mids/highs horns. Active crossover frequencies are 60 and 500Hz, with the <60Hz going to two active subs. Anyways, that’s just for context. When I first plugged the Odin speaker cable, I thought they sounded very nice, smooth and detailed, then things started to change for the worse, they became harsh and congested and just plain wrong sounding. I almost took them out of the system. My drivers average 105dB/W/m sensitivity, hence "normal" listening levels see only a tiny amount of current passing through the wires. Burn in wasn’t easy. To get enough current and speed things up, I would have to play at SPLs which are totally incompatible with any kind of neighborhood. In any case, after a long and very stressful period (I’m really not rich, so two runs of Odin speaker cable - even the Chinese version - max length, that is starting to represent some expense for my meagre wallet, and it’s not something you can easily resell, for sure, so I was bummed) the cables started to sound good again, then very very good. It’s the most extreme burn-in rollercoaster I've ever experienced. |
@thecarpathian I have no idea but they come in handy to prevent cables from touch each other while they criss cross in the back of your setup. |
@derekw_hawaii @rfnoise I did in fact delete two previous posts. As my comments were not supported by my recent listening, I didn't want to be misleading anyone with prior praise of the cables. Like I said, eating crow. I had about 20 hours play on the cables which I know is not enough. I will continue to brake them in using a white noise disc. |
Going to eat a little crow here. I have stated I don't hear the differences between cables. Maybe that's because I have been comparing one high quality cable to another. When I first installed my new Chinese cables I thought they sounded good. But tonight I sat down for some critical listening and realized the sound was missing something. It was compressed and the soundstage was smaller. I switched back to my Morrow RCAs and Fidelium speaker cables and BAM the sound was back. So maybe you can't get $2000 sound from a $200 cable. Will the fake cables open up with use? For now I will admit the better quality cables bring better sound. Still doubt spending $5000 on speaker cables would sound much better than my much cheaper Fideliums. |
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@melm Until recently, in order for a company to be required to collect sales taxes and remit them to a state the selling entity had to have nexus. Nexus back then basically required some type of physical presence. If the company did not have nexus so was not required to collect sales tax you, the purchaser, were expected to self-assess yourself sales tax and pay it to your state, usually via your individual state income tax return. Then, due to the proliferation of online sales, all but two states have adopted a rule that if a company has an excess of a certain amount of sales to a state, even online sales, they now have nexus. The minimum amount of these sales for most states is $100,000, and for some it is $250,000 and a few others $500,000. So, if a company does not have sales equal to or exceeding these amounts there is no requirement for them to collect sales tax and you are expected to self access and pay the sales tax to the state. |
Okay @melm you are right: I stand corrected on the Tax. This also should also allow prosecution for selling counterfeit goods in those states. LOL FAT CHANCE AliExpress and Alibaba, AliExpress’s parent company, certainly have an economic presence in the US. AliExpress has warehouses and drop shippers all over the US, while Alibaba has U.S sellers and small businesses.
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Audit this. If you are paying any tax on Ali Express it is not being paid to the taxing authority in the state you reside in. only a fool would think that. Oh, I have a few thing but I do not blatantly support counterfeit products or buy direct from CCP controlled entity’s. Unlike you my preference is to support small businesses in North America and the EU. A few dollars multiplied by how many transactions? The Counterfeit Cable Cartel’s.
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I tested them between my DAC and Preamp on my main system. My systems are shown under my UserID. Aurender W20SE streamer, Audio Research Reference CD9se DAC, Audio Research Reference 6SE Preamp, Audio Research Reference 160m mono blocks.
If you want to play around with them I would put them as close to the source as possible. That should give you the most impact for your evaluation. |
Thank you. I understand the slang now. You just never know… it sounds like something you could purchase if the manufacturer / vendor had a bit of integrity.
Yes, I have been breaking in the fake Odin 2. I get about 16 hours a day. They are around 70 hours or so. I thought I would give them a try in a few days.
I had been fiddling with my EtherRegen in my system. I took it out and it made no difference. Then I noticed although the Ethernet cable on the streamer side was high quality but the Ethernet cable on the wall wart extender side was a cheap one. Of course, I expected no different. But guess what, there was. So, I am evaluating / getting accustom to the change. Hopefully, I’ll be up to thy the Fake Odin 2 this weekend. |
So, in the meantime, the Gold power cord I received last week is burning in nicely, and is getting better every day. I don't know where it will stop, but right now, the improvement in sound a single new PC made to my system brings me tears of joy every time I listen. This power cord is magical, guys, it has no right to be so good at that price. CRAZY GOOD.
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@rfnoise give them time. All the Chinese Odin have one thing in common: they change, sometimes dramatically, during burn in, and always for the better. they will mellow down, be more dynamic, and bass will be less restrained. What I do sometimes is go to YouTube, select some burn-in tracks (there are many) or pink noise track (most of those are around 10hours) and, if I have to burn in interconnects, I just turn off the power amp, and push the preamp almost to the max (let's say, volume at 2pm) then go away and just let it play for hours. It really helps. of course, it's less practical for speaker cables ^^ haha |
I was picking up on informal nomenclature I’d seen others use in this thread. Apologies, I didn’t mean to confuse you. Are you intending to carry on with burning the cables you received? If so, I look forward to reading your results. Your initial impressions were somewhat discouraging, and your experience with the real deal provides valuable context.
These are the cables I ordered:
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Well my XLR neardost odin 2’s showed up yesterday. The connectors were as @rolox described, with the rear plastic shell. I put one pair of the clones between my preamp and amp, and the other between dac and pre. I definitely noticed a difference, more detail, more air, and maybe more specificity in separation of instruments. But at the same time, a little lean, and dry in the mids. Wasn’t really sure how I felt about it. I’d intended to just listen with the new interconnects, but impatience got the better of me a I hooked up the pair of the flat Valhalla clone speaker cables. Holy smokes! That was a change for the better, and not a subtle one. I think the best way to describe it is to say that if my cables were photos, the old ones were slightly out of focus, and with too little contrast, and that has now been resolved. It really felt like something that I hadn’t realized was between me and the music had been removed. On one song, I actually heard distinct soft backup vocals that I’d never realized were there. It was eerie. Still kind of wondering about the interconnects tho, although I’ve only had a chance to listen to them for a couple hours.
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I purchased several thousands of dollars in four separate purchases from RM Digital https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1101704701?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.1c0218025ae1Uo They were transacted on PayPal. They have a great Valhalla 2 speaker wire clone and the Odin Gold Power. They both were better than my Valhalla 1 speaker and power and Purist Dominus ferox power, old Elrod statement 2, and Kubala emotion power. I never had an Odin gold or Valhalla 2 to compare with. Shipments take a month to arrive (in early 2022). |
I've taken the plunge and ordered a few items from Quincrown Audio. They shipped in one day, have answered all questions within hours and UPS have notified me the package is in thier system. Scheduled to arrive in 10 days. Will give a full report after trying them out. Cheap entertainment if nothing else. https://www.aliexpress.com/store/911734184?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.2b9e1802y5jKHg |
