confused and don't know what to do

Many opinions found here, can be rather daunting.

Here's my two cents.  Figure (really think about it) out which "system" you are going to use.  If you are a major music fan then build a stereo.
If you watch movies constantly then build a HT.

I've had both in one room.  Totally separate systems.   

Try to remember that music appreciation is a "warm" endeavor, whereas
video is a "cool" endeavor.  

Personally I would build the stereo first, simply because that's where your dollars are going to make a difference.  Home theaters are a lot of fun but not as much as fine music system.  Good Luck.    

The B&Ws are bright - I literally can't listen to them! 
Paradigm has made affordable audiophile class speakers for decades.
They also have a complete line of really good in-ceiling, in-wall and subwoofers. I would check out the Prestige series.
They also make one of the few really good AV receivers - the Anthem MRX 520, 720, 1120. I recently listened to an MRX 720 driving a Wilson Audio left and right, with Paradigm center, surrounds, and subwoofer. With an Ayre DAC feeding it the sound was stunning!

Lots of good advise above but I want to add more thoughts about the room.

Walk around your room and do a single hand clap at various places. Then go into other rooms, especially bedrooms, and do the same thing. In your main room you will likely hear a strong flutter echo. If your bedroom is carpeted and you have a couple chairs plus the bed you will hear a smoother fade-out of the sound. Flutter echo = bad sound. You want your large room to sound more like your bedroom. There is no amount of money you can spend on gear that will overcome the bad effects of flutter echo. One of the main things to know about room acoustics is that the digital correction technology in an AV receiver will do nothing to address flutter echo. It only concerns itself with frequency response, particularly in the bass region.

The next thing is to talk to your significant other about how you will be playing the system. There will certainly be times that you are sitting in the sweet spot listening intently to a piece of music. However, it sounds like this is your main living space which portends other requirements. Do you or your SO like to listen to music when you are in the kitchen cooking? How about watching TV. The point here is that you will need to think about how the system will sound in other parts of the room. If the room is large with a lot of reflective surfaces it might sound like a cave. In this case I would recommend that you think about remote speakers and where they should go. This will affect your choice of gear.

Before researching the optimum system I recommend that you focus your energy and dollars on treating the room. There is lots of good instructional information on the web and there are several companies who provide room treatment products that will have an expert personally assist you to improve the acoustics of your space. There are even custom absorbers available that can be covered by your own artwork or photos.

Lastly I agree with the above posters who recommend starting with a good quality two channel (or 2.1) system. You might find, as I did, that having more than two channels doesn't improve my movie watching experience. I finally came to the conclusion that the extra speakers were more of a distraction. For movies where multichannel sound is very important we usually go to the theater. We just saw The Rise of Skywalker and it was amazing. I'm simply never going to have a surround system that is anywhere near that good.

Try Anthem MRX series (especially MRX 720 (approx $2500)).  Great for music, great for AV/cinema

+1 AudioTroy

Hi Raw33,

My opinion would be to take this project slow and build it up over time as your experience and knowledge increases.

Your room will probably be your biggest issue. A lot of reflective surfaces which more than likely will cause sound quality issues. It does sound like it might be a large room which should help. The good news is that sound issues with the room the can be fixed. Things like furniture, throw rugs, drapes can all help to reduce reflections. If you live near a major metropolitan area you should have someone in your area that deals with room acoustics that could come out on a consultation. It might set you back a few bucks but it would probably be money well spent.

As far as the system I would start out with a 2 channel music system just to keep it simple and your investment manageable. You can always expand in the future. The more parts you add the more complex the integration becomes and if it’s not integrated well you are not going to be happy. Find a dealer that will at least give you a return option after some type of home trial of so many days. Usually these are 30 to 45 depending probably on the dealer and the manufacturers involved. A good dealer should also be able to help you set your system up. 

If you buy decent quality gear and it is properly set up and in your case the room is properly treated, it should sound good doing both music and home theater. 

My 804's are powered by a McIntosh 252, and it sounds great!

I would consider Anthem or an ARCAM AV850.

i was not impressed with Bowers and Wilkins.  I would add a pair of REL S3 SHO subwoofers.  I like their high level hook up for music and they also are excellent for HT.  They act as Woofers to extend the bass when listening to stereo.  You will love them.  I would add Persian Rugs to the mix to subdue some of the brightness from the hardwood floors.

When I accidentally destroyed all of my electronics, I decided on the B&W 804 as my test speaker, thinking it would be the closest to my older 803's, and I was not wrong.  You are going to get a lot of advice, but here is mine, after listening to current 804's for hours.  STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM RECEIVERS AND ROTEL ELECTRONICS!  There are several B&W dealers from my home town to where I live now, and I have heard these speakers extensively.  Not one receiver nor the best Rotel electronics was listenable for more than a few minutes.  Even the salesmen at Best Buy Magnolia, who put up with me very graciously, admitted that I would not ever get a receiver or their Rotel stuff to sound as good as what I had, and of course I would have to bite the bullet and buy their McIntosh stuff.  The several high end dealers had some really expensive solutions, but here is what I think:  Go to a thrift shop or eBay and buy a cheap receiver and get some older, used B&W's for your surround.  Hell, I even bought a supposedly really well regarded, trade in  Marantz surround receiver from a Linn dealer in my town, just to use temporarily. After setting it up, I listened, then immediately re-boxed it, using just that one time.   You can have it cheaply, but only if you don't have audiophiles dying in your area where a decent receiver will appear.  Don't waste you money on current 804's to use a receiver.  There is not enough room in the box to put a big power supply.  Ditto for the few integrated amps I heard.   BTW, I have one large room. The stereo is placed where it sounds the best; the television is 90 degrees to the right, happily powering my much older B&W's, with same model line, smaller eBay B&W's for the rear.  Luckily, I found an aging Austrian guy to repair my Audire electronics, despite no schematics ever having been released.  Thank you Chris from Audio Advisors for that lead.

I have two homes with three separate systems in each. A home theater setup, a computer desk setup, and in my main home an audiophile setup, at the other a bedroom setup.
If you have listened to the 804s and like them, fine. You can get the appropriate center channel and get 805s for surround. Subwoofers should be REL, a pair of them, T/7i or T/9i. Anthem would be a great choice for this setup, either an AVM 60 Preamp Processor with an appropriate power amp or one of their AVM Receivers. Preferably the former. The Anthem gear comes with everything you need to get the most out of your room and gear.
Marantz works as well, but I have been using Anthem gear for over ten years and I am sold on it.
You are going to get a lot of hysterical posts responding to your question. The advice I have given you is based on years of satisfaction with similar speakers and gear. PM me if you would like details. This would be a solid setup you can calmly enjoy and build on if desired for many years.

I had the same conundrum Raw and solved it by putting in a McIntosh 8900 integrated amplifier with HT pass through. I have 804D3s as my main speakers and an older HT7 center channel and two B&W in-wall surrounds. I run a Marantz AV processor and multi-channel amp for TV/Movies.  This setup gives me the best of both worlds. I am a music first guy, so when I was upgrading from my older mid-fi system, the emphasis was on stereo reproduction and not Theater.  I do agree that the 804D3s can be bright and after hearing a pair of Sonus Faber Olympicas, I am considering a swap.  
I think this route is a very good way to go as the better integrated amps of today are really hard to beat.  Good luck. 

I recently purchased a Naim Star and B&W 702 S2’s for music and love it.  Plan on purchasing the B&W sound bar and subwoofer for my oled tv.  I think you can add rears too if you want a surround sound.  I tried to do what you wanted to do but there was just too much compromise on the audio side.

As your room is a challenge with all the hard reflective surfaces, a surround system with multiple speakers could end up sounding very muddled. I recommend just doing a 2-channel system, which will be easier to get sounding right and be a lot more immersive for watching movies than a poorly designed surround system. You will also reduce the amount of ugly wires and hardware. For amplification, if you do go for the B&W, I recommend looking at the integrated amps by Yamaha, Luxman and McIntosh. Best of luck with it!

Forget about how a speaker sounds at Best Buy. You need to try (borrow from stores or friends) a speaker to hear in your own listening environment, which as you describe, sounds like a challenge. The room is the biggest variable. Figure out where the speakers are going to go. Do they need to go up against a wall? Certain speakers, like Larsen's, are ideal for wall placement. Most speakers benefit from being out in the room and the room you describe, btw, does not sound like a good candidate for home theater, so can definitely save money by sticking to 2-channel which is adequate for most video and ideal for music. Indeed you should start "backwards": buy a speaker that will drive your room, then an amp that will drive your speakers and with whatever money is left buy the best front end components you can. There are definitely differences between front end components but nothing like the differences between speakers in real life rooms. I've owned quite a few great speakers that just didn't work in my room. Don't make a mistake like that!

Since you are in an open-space condo, space (footprint) might be a consideration. My wife and I are facing the same issue. I settled on a BlueSound PowerNode 2i, which includes a streamer and integrated amp.  Your selected speakers will certainly work with them (I have ELAC Debut 6.2s that are great).  Includes an HDMI port for the TV. And you can hook up a subwoofer and Bluetooth speakers.    With all that reflective material in your condo you might not even miss the extra three speakers.  

Some really good advice here, as well as some monster systems. Let me lend my experience; I’m sure some will not get past my first sentence or two - I hope the OP does! :) I’m envisioning your condo with a lot of "life" going on: kitchen, dining, living, etc. AND - you have a significant other IIRC. This system can’t be a mess of wires or remotes or components (did anyone ask what you play? Stream? Vinyl? Physical media? I’ll assume you stream...) I had the same issues. I wanted GREAT sound and intelligibility from movies and TV...and I wanted GREAT sound from music. What I did: I listened to as many top-line soundbars, then purchased a Martin Logan ’Vision’ bar; I’m sure there are even better ones now. I was going to add a sub, but have not yet. For music, a pair of wonderful North Creek standmount speakers designed for near wall placement (NC is no longer in business, but my point is some NICE stand mounts or towers, ultimately should be purchased with consideration for placement). If I were buying components today, I would purchase a fine integrated from Jeff Rowland, Rogue, Moon, Bel Canto, McIntosh, etc etc. Go tube if you want! Add a (matching?) streamer. DONE.
What I just described is a one or two box solution; speakers for music, and a sound bar which is completely dedicated to you video system. (I use a Roku 4K with mine, mounted behind TV. Very clean)
The advantages of a fine soundbar have blown me away after living with it for 3 years: absolute simplicity with very superb sound and legible dialogue. I simply do not miss rear channels (most have the ability to "project" the rear information - sometimes quite spooky), or the wiring. In a combined (condo!) living space I can’t recommend the complexity of an Atmos or 5.x system. With a fine soundbar - you get a 3.0 or 3.1 system for movies and TV. One button operation.
I hope this helps with another viewpoint; really envision "life" with the equipment and what you and your significant other want to live with.

I was in a similar situation a few years back. I was coming from a surround system that was great for movies, but not enjoyable for music. I went deep down the rabbit hole of trying to get my stereo setup satisfying for music. By the time I did I had blown whatever budget for any additional surround setup up, but to my happy surprise the large enveloping soundstage, sharp spatial definition and Timbral richness added up to a movie experience that was significantly more satisfying than my surround system ever was. One day, when the coffers are replenished, I may take a stab at rebuilding a surround system, but in the meantime, I want for nothing and the music is out of this world endgame fantastic! I am simply recommending that you fully satisfy your music itch first, and then see where you’ve landed... and then plan next stage. Problem with starting surround first is that it rules out so much great gear that may blow your mind musically. YMMV

I agree that if you really value stereo music, you can't use the same gear for video.

Get speakers that suit both purposes and then set up your audio system however you like.

Then add either an AV receiver, or do what I do (but it is far more expensive) and add a really good AV pre and separate power amp - in other words two completely different amplification paths, one for music and one for video. Just takes a minute to pull the speaker wires from one and plug them into the other - using good quality banana plugs speeds it up over having to undo spades or bare wires.

raw33,

A while back I started a thread here referencing this same topic.
I have not looked at it in a while, since I came to my own conclusion after a lot of research and auditions. If I remember correctly it’s called amplifiers good for music listening or 2 channel listening.

Anyway, my conclusion was to separate the two. If you don’t, you will never have the best of both worlds. First and foremost, what is your budget and what is your priority. If want to keep them together then buy based on your listening priority.  Keep in mind home theatre requires accuracy and forwardness which might night be ideal for music listening. Also, you do not have to spend a lot for your home theatre for it to be good. In my opinion you should pick out a pair of speakers that call out to you sonically and then pick the rest, since you can always tame your speakers by 
positioning, working with electronics, wiring, etc. Once you pick your speakers do your home work plus audition your ears out..lol.
If you want something you like and not be disappointed when you take it home, take your time. Remember some dealers will let you take gear home to audition.   Anyway, good luck and have fun....

+1 to audiotroy and mtrot approach. I used to use a receiver as preamp but upgraded to dac/preamp. Remember that any DAC used in this way will have to have analog inputs. It does complicate the system use and remote control, esp with a music server, but I LOVE my combined 2ch/HT system now! We really need some idea of budget to give better recommendations on gear. I use Anthem MRX-1120 for all other channels, and Bel canto DAC3.5mk2 with Mark Levinson ML-532h amp for 2ch. The system kicks. The new Bel Canto Black EX DAC-pre looks really nice if you can afford it.

If your room is large, I highly recommend multiple subs (a swarm), even if you won't play them loud. I suffered for 20 years with what I would call a hollow bass sound, and adding a 3rd sub on the far side of the room solved that. It's like magic, and believe me, I tried just about everything else.

I also finally got acoustic treatments, and they were the icing on the cake. In your room, these will be absolutely essential. Keep in mind that if you go with receiver for surround only, it will not be able to correct for your 2ch, and this is actually a good thing. Also, no amount of room correction can compensate for a room with many reflective surfaces. I recommend GIK acoustics as very helpful in overall design with many options and good price/$.

I wouldn't skimp too much on cables, but I would save really expensive ones until the end. I'm a firm believer in ALL cables affecting the sound. Best of luck, and come back with more information as your system progresses.

raw33,

Forgot to mention not all speakers you like might not have a compatible center channel. Keep in mind your center is everything to a good home theatre. Another suggestion is to read up on tweeter material and how they influence sound, this is very important. Also, electronics such as amps do influence the sound from your speakers no matter what others say, since I did experience this.

i would suggest that you do separates   get a good AV pre/pro (many recommendations above), Then get a high quality tube preamp with cinema bypass (Cary or many others) SS monoblocks for your L, R, and Center, then get lesser models of same manufacturer stereo or multi channel power amp for  surrounds (depending on yuor desired theatre set-up),  you get the best of both worlds

A few people have mentioned a good starting point being an Anthem AVR.  I am just getting ready to put my MRX710 up for sale as I very rarely do the movie thing in 5 or 7.1.  I've decided to drift back to tubes for 2.0 music only.  I've nevervhadcan issue with it and it has plenty of juice for both music and movies.
If interested let me know.  The queen is telling me it's time to start selling off all the stuff I've stopped using.

raw33, as you said music is your priority. With a good system you do not need all that surround sound stuff. Just stick the biggest TV you can between your 804s, Get two subwoofers, an amplifier with at least 200 watts/channel with it's matching preamp(Anthem is a great value) and a Top Blu Ray player like the Mcintosh MVP 901. Call it a day unless you want to do vinyl. You don't even need a streamer as the MVP 901 will do it for you.

Thank you for all the fabulous advice. Today, after reading several recommendations, I went to listen to the KEF REF3's. I loved their warm sound. I am convinced from the comments that choosing the right speakers and putting the dollars into them will be the appropriate choice and it would be great to listen to them in my own space. I wanted to listen to the KEF REF 5's but they didn't have them in the store I visited. However, they did just get in a pair of KEF Blades. Wow, they are pricey. Let's say I could afford the 5's and it would be a real stretch to imagine the Blades, but just for laughs and giggles, I would love to hear comments on the KEF Ref 3's vs 5's and if anyone has any knowledge on the Blades, well let's hear it anyway even though it is probably out of my ballpark if I want to buy anything other components.
 I will heed advice and slowly build the system to ensure that I pay attention to every detail along the way. I don't know what to say about a budget. What is too little, what is too much, what gives me a great bang for the buck that will be something I can enjoy for years to come? I have no idea what number that should be.  I know I am not spending 100K on the entire system. Am I spending 30K or 50K, don't know if that is bang for the buck This is why I have asked you who have so much more expertise and knowledge than I to help guide me in these endeavors. I have checked the echoing in the room- non-existent so even though there are a lot of hard surfaces, I have area carpets and furniture that dampen the effects of those surfaces. I have no magic number in mind. I just retired but have savings and enjoy music which will be a very important part of my life.
Thank you all so much for helping me on this journey. I am learning so much!

raw33,

If you decide on the KEF’s, I recommend using electronics that are on the warm side such as Mcintosh, Pass Labs, etc.  These speakers can be a bit bright at times and create listening fatigue, but they are great for home theatre in my opinion. You should also check out some horns like the Klipsch La Scala AL5 or Cornwall IV, Volti Audio stuff,  etc., this is like listening to live music in the comfort of your home. I recommend looking at reviewers on line such as Steve Guttenberg and others and this will help a bit, but audition, audition, audition..
Keep in mind what you like others might not and there is a whole industry to explore.

1)arcam
2)parasound
3)anthem
i have 2 pairs of b&w’s:  686( 2005 bookshelves)and dm 580 (90’s floorstanding) and tried them at home with arcam delta 60 integrated ,arcam delta 120 power amp (with some ss and tube preamps),nad c352 (given as a present to a friend), an old rotel receiver (traded for a wireworld rca cable)and a jvc receiver(given as a present to another friend). arcam and b&w always work the best since arcam is warm and realistic so it’s never dull (b&W and nad or jvc)or too bright (b&w and rotel)which are the dangers with b&w speakers .

raw33,

If you decide to split your music from h theatre look into you can go Parasound for amplification and a good pro. Another good h theatre setup is NAD, with either of these you don’t have to break the bank and they are good.

I think Classe audio is back in business. Sound United took the Classe line from B&W and according to all my research they are very good for both. They attended the Munich audio show just this past year to introduce their new Delta line. Classe has a very good reputation and I really think you should look them up and read their reviews. 

Sorry, it seems I bombarding you with pieces at a time but I am writing things as they come to me...lol,..

Blades - haven’t heard them, but I entered high end by spending 80% of my budget on Magneplanar Tympani 1a speakers in 1973. The first speaker to be awarded Stereophile’s Class A.

System didn’t quite sound like all mega-buck, but it was 90% of the way there. So if the Blades blow you away like the Tympani 1a’s blew me away, I say put them on the list and skimp everything else. Other stuff can be brought up to standard one significant birthday at a time. And that very much includes cables.

If you like the sound of Blades, also consider electrostatics and Magnepans. I’m a multiple-Quad ESL man, myself, and I built the electronics to conform to them.

I am not a big fan of B&W speakers.  Where's the base.  However, if you buy a pair of REL S3 SHO subwoofers that would fill in the lower extension.

I would look at ARCAM.  I have their AVR550.  However, I wish I could have afforded to spend $3,000 more on their AVR850.  It blew the doors off the MacIntosh.  I like their G amplification technology, as their first 50 watts is pure A.  Don't know why people feel ARCAM is not audiophile.  They are missing out that's for sure.  The only amplifier I like for the money is Parasound.  They sound really good and I believe they now have a multi-channel processor.

This is an interesting thread as I just tweaked my system over the weekend to add in HT.  I have a rather high end two channel stereo set up in my large living room.  I have been pretty much 100 percent analog music driven; however I grabbed a deal around the holidays from Axiom Audio on a pair of custom made (satin knotty pine veneer) QS10 surround speakers.  I thought it might be fun to install the surrounds in the room and put a surplus Parasound A51 power amp into service as it's been sitting on a shelf for the past 2 years.

My main set up is a VPI Ares 3 turntable with the SME Series IV tonearm, Ortofon A90 MC to a Whest PS30.RDT SE 2019 phono stage and all of this feeds an Anthem AVM60 which is a wonderful preamp/4K switching audio processor with a ton of adjustability.  I run it with no room correction at all.   The power amps are a pair of Anthem M1 monoblocks fed with dedicated 240 V/15amp circuits and each amp puts out 2000 watts per channel into a pair of Bryston signature series Model T main speakers with the PX1 external crossovers.... great speakers!!!  I have heard the KEF's and the B&W's and many others; in my opinion, the Model T's blow the other offerings out of the water.   I also have three subwoofers in the room spaced at 90/180/270 degree layout from the front main speakers.  The subs are all built by Axiom/Bryston.  

The living room is around 10,000 cubic feet in size with an 18 foot vaulted ceiling; so it's a large area to fill with sound (hence all of the power)

With all of the above said, I then decided to try out the HT format in this set up as I have a very good processor, the AVM 60 and the spare multichannel amp.  Again, I am pretty much all vinyl, but I thought it would be fun to test out some films.  I installed the Axiom QS10 surrounds, which are nice speakers with 5 drivers per speaker (using the same tweeters and mid drivers as used in the Bryston Model T's and the High power 6.5 inch woofer as used in the Axiom LFR 1100 floor speakers).  I picked up a Sony X800 Blu-ray player yesterday and installed my A51 amp to feed the center and two surrounds.  

First impressions:  I really enjoyed the Super Bowl half time show in surround, I then put on an older DVD I had in stock of Black Hawk Down and it was very impressive with the surround sound.   So my observation from all of this is that you can definitely have the best of both worlds, a top notch two channel stereo system AND HT if you are willing to spend the money on the components.  I just happened to have a retired out A51 which was replaced a couple of years ago by the M1 mono blocks, so for me it didn't take much to set this up; I only had to buy the surrounds and some balanced interconnects from Blue Jeans Cable.  I also had an older Def-tech center speaker kicking around.

OP, if you have not decided on your speakers yet, I would really suggest that you go to Axiom Audio's website and look over their offerings.  The main speakers they have are the LFR1100's in both omnidirectional and fully active which just came out.   The LFR1100's are a slimmed down version of the Bryston Model T's and far less expensive (they sell direct to consumer vs. through the dealer network as Bryston does, but similar build quality).  They will play much like the Model T's but just not as much horsepower if you don't need to fill a massive space like I am dealing with.

Most of these threads are full of so much waste of time I hardly ever come back for a second look. But just now I did and this one from audiotroy shouldn't just slide by:

Excuse us Millercarbon, please list your experience in setting up a Home Theater, all you do is denegrate those people who enjoy the benefits of both.

Right. I started out like everyone else fed the HT mantra looking for the full monty surround setup. This is all written up multiple times before btw. Spent at least a year, maybe two, going around to all the high end stores along the I5 corridor from north of Seattle to Portland. Started off listening to everything they had in Home Theater. AVRs initially, then separates.
My background before starting this was 20 years listening to a mid-1970's Kenwood integrated with JBL speakers and a Technics turntable, Pioneer RTR and Magnavox CDB650 CDP. That's the quality level I was used to and that's what kept me moving up the HT food chain. Because nothing HT was sounding even that good.
Along the way I would be in these stores and listen to their stereo gear. This was always and without exception night and day better than anything HT.
But I was really determined to have my surround theater experience. I had two pair of Talon Khorus for full range surrounds. I had done every single thing they tell you to do for home theater. All the calibration, speaker setup, everything. Hello! Full range Talons! Can you say over the top???!?
Every once in a while I thought there was something might be worth having. All the HT gear I brought home was crap. Finally one time I got what was at the time heralded to be the best surround processor around. Sorry, forget the model. Does not matter. It was such crap it too wasn't as good as the Kenwood. Played it for my wife. She couldn't believe it either.
HT exists because no one ever bothers to do these direct head to head comparisons. I actually did all this stuff. THAT is my experience.
Look at my system. Try and tell me I don't know what I'm doing. Or what I'm talking about. Go ahead. Try.
Denigrate? No. Again, look at my system! Look at it! DYODD! Its a dual use system! That great big gray thing on the wall? That's a Stewart Filmscreen Grayhawk screen. Again, try and tell me I don't know home theater!
Time and time again people come here looking for sound advice. Time and time again they run into people like audiotroy pushing what they have to sell. Talking their own book. That's the worst you could say of me. Talking my own book.
But at least I went to the trouble to do the work and make the comparisons, and have zero, zip, zilch, nada, NOTHING to gain financially.
Can you say the same, audiotroy? You are out to make a buck. So why should anyone care a whit what you have to say? And being in a supposedly higher position- professional, after all- to denigrate me? To call me out? You have some nerve. I'll give you that.

@millercarbon,
Your system looks fantastic and I couldn't agree with you more. There are a few dealers in this forum that are truly helpful and not constantly trying to promote products they sell. Unfortunately there is one dealer here that uses Audiogon's forum daily as a sales platform.

This retort is both to Millercarbon and Rbach.

First Millercarbon, you do have a nice two channel setup, however adding a screen to a two channel system does not make it into a Home Theater.

No center channel and no rears and no surround sound processor means you have stereo TV which can sound great but this kind of setup wiill not offer the level of involvement for video sources that you can get by having the additional components.

Your expreriences with combining "Home theater stores" and expecting to get real music out of a conventional home theater gear of course is not going to come anywhere near the level of quality that you will get out of a real music system, most "Home Theater stores" are run by people without training into design of Home Theaters nor have experience  with High end two channel music systems. Also many Home Theater stores use fiberglass acoustical panels which can make the room over damped or worse have no real acoustical treatment at all.

If your room is overdamped or underdamped neither will sound good.

Miller you seem to disadain the concept of Home Theater and seem to feel that the extra speakers are a waste. On contrare the center channel anchors the dialog and the real channels help create the expansive feeling of space which is why there are rear speakers in the first place.

If you also look at our posts we suggested that the OP look at a high end intergrated amplifier for the important job of providing the best possible wo channel sound and use a surorund sound receiver to power the rears and the center channel this is the same kind of setup you are also using except you have tube monoblocks and a preamp instead of an intergrated amplifier.

Your level of experience can not be compared with ours we builds both real Movie Theaters and we design state of the art music systems and in 30 years of professional audio experience the amount of gear we have sold, and tested and how many customers we have worked with is in the thousands.

As per the line that there are no such things as great Surround sound receviers the Audio Control and Arcam lines sound really quite good.

There are some also pretty amazing sound surround sound processor/preamps the Theta line, Audio Control, and the new NAD M17 MK 2 actually sound quite fantastic. The new Hegel C55 is a true music amplifier that just happens to provide three additional channels over a comparable two channel Hegel amplifer.

We have built theaters for major celebrities and have been trained by Toni Grimani Keith Yates and Russ Herschelman.

We have four soon to be five sound rooms which include both pure music rooms and our two channel business partners include some of the finest music gear in the world including: Naim, T+A, Electrocompaniet, Krell, Unison Research, Micromega, Zesto, Hegel, Coda, Lumin, Bricasti, Anthem, Audio Control, KEF,Paradigm, Dali, ATC, Quad, Cabasse, Legacy, Alta audio and lots more.

Rbach we write on these forums not to necessarily sell anything, we have helped clients from all over the country, and even in other countries all without selling them anything.

Why don’t you contact Fast who wanted to sell his brand new Kef Ref 5 because he couldn’t get them to sound right in his room, we started talking on the boards and he reached out to us and we advised him on what he needed to do to make the system sound great.

We sent him a power conditioner, power cables, interconnects, footers, room tuning accessories, a new dac, and music server and after working on his system for a few days which included repostioning his KEF Reference Fives, the system sounded fantastic.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

RAW33,

As previously mentioned audition as many gear as you can and come to your own conclusion. I am sure you noticed that everyone here claims they have the best system and this is simply because they picked out what they thought was right for them. As I mentioned pick out the speakers that call out to you sonically,
etc. and do your best to match the rest to balance out the speakers to your taste.

Everyone here has the best intention to help, but all these recommendations will become overwhelming. Bottom line is you will end up picking your own gear in the end by auditioning, reading reputable reviews, etc. Don’t get me wrong there are very good topics and information provided here that you will benefit from for your setup, but in the end it is your call. I already mentioned this previously, read on tweeter material like berillium, titanium, etc., since these will influence the speaker sound to a large degree.
Anyway, this research was fun for me because I learned a lot and I was turned on to great music along the way.

Yes, it is overwhelming but I feel that I have definitely benefited from much of the knowledge and helpful advice I gained from reading many of these posts. I really do appreciate everyones opinion.  The intricacies and the details that go in to a sound system are fascinating and I have just barely scraped the surface.  I am trying to gain understanding  but see that will take me awhile and much experimenting and experiencing. I look forward to an interesting journey. As you say, the system has to be right for me and I am sure I will make mistakes in my choices from which I will learn. I am just hoping those mistakes aren't too expensive. LOL!

We live in a similar condo, all downstairs is a combined living, dining, kitchen with sliding glass on one end.  I use Sennheiser RS 185 wireless headphones for HT and a dedicated 2 channel stereo for music. The Sennheisers work great and a second pair can be added. My comment is more of a practical one though.  Subs and in wall speakers.  You’ve got neighbors.  In wall speaker in a common wall is a definite no go.  So is cranking the subs, even a little.  Food for thought.  

Starting with a pair of B&W 804D is definitely a wrong move. In addition, the "must have" of a 5.1 system is a sub, which is not practical if you live in an apartment. B&W Diamond speakers need a hefty amplifier to drive them, and the cost is very close to the cost of the 804's. On top of that are streamer, DAC, and AVR. Finally, a receiver, regardless of the brand, is not for again, the 804's. Five year ago, I had a $2000 surround system. After buying a pair of Focal Electra 1038Be, I spent a total almost $50K just to match the front speakers.

Got to agree with the plan of using a surround sound receiver with a tasty integrated to drive the left and right fronts. The integrated will provide a better input for your 2 channel source(LP CD ...).The receiver will give you the better movie sound with the advantage of freeing up some of the receivers watts for the other channels and increasing the quality of the two fronts.

@audiotroy

"Rbach we write on these forums not to necessarily sell anything, we have helped clients from all over the country, and even in other countries all without selling them anything."

Mr. Lalin,  If you would like us to believe that you are participating in this forum to help clients and 'not necessarily sell anything'...think again. You search DAILY through the forum looking for sales opportunities. You have sent Private Messages to many of my friends after reading (in this forum) that they were in the market for a component. You discount the product they were considering and pitch the product YOU sell.

Everyone has the right to contribute in this public forum. It's your know-it-all attitude and pushy sales tactics that are so off putting.

I have no doubt that audiotroy wants to sell product, but I’ve not found his comments to be "pushy".

@mtrot

Totally respect your opinion. For a dealer to occasionally recommend a product is fine, but to promote the products he carries every day in a public forum is "pushy"......glad you're ok with it.

rbach sorry you feel that way but the reality is our company has way more experience with most of the products that are being discussed here then many people on these boards. 

Our line list it very wide and most of the time if a product is hot we are going to pursue getting it if we feel that the addition of that line is going to be beneficial. 

Our business model provides for a low overhead which enables us to funnel more money into product acccquisitions than many of the large stores we compete with. 

We also go to most of the other audio shows around the country and get a chance to listen to a huge variety of gear. 

Also we have over 30 years of experience in designing both music and home theater systems. 

Rbach very rarely do we PM anybody, however, you are correct that we do chime in on conversations that we have products that we may feel may be of interest to the poster,  we can not write in every forum post there just isn't enough time. 

As per talking about products that we don't sell, perhaps the reason we don't sell them is that we feel that the products we currently have are better or may offer similar perfromance for less money. 

We sell over 60 brands of gear we have lines we don't endorse we perfer Kef over B&W, we don't like Mcintosh gear, nor Dagastino, don't love Vandersteen, we make our biases well known and there are reasons  why we don't carry these brands:

Mcintosh uses Automformers which are unnecssary with a solid state amplfier and limit transparency, don't like Dagastino too expensive for the sound quality and you are paying a lot for the styling, Vandersteen sounds too rolled off for most models, we can go on an on, Magico tends to sound a bit on the boring side to us etc, etc. 

Rbach most dealers believe the products they sell are better for a reason we have a ton of great everything, we don't force or endorse any one line more than any other, if you come to our shop we would recommend Paradigm, or Kef, or Legacy or possibly Alta audio or Vimberg for our best loudspeakers. 

However, for applications like theater the KEF line is one of our best recommendations as the dual concentric tweeter provides a true point source and the slight flared design on the cone provides a wide dispersion capablity that most loudspeakers lack.

Rbach we have a superb track record of assisting clients all over the country some people have directly purchased from us while others have not, but have still been thrilled with the products and advise.

We have extolled the sound quality of the Micromega line and have talked with several clients that purchased the M100 or M150 and have loved the piece, we have sold  not a single one to anyone on these boards. 

The fact is that there are tons of people with opinions we have the direct experience, product knowledge and product selection to be able to make a rationale discussion on to the merits and to the pros and cons of most of the products on the market. 

You can choose to read our posts or not to read them. 

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

audiotroy,

You have every right to post in this or any public forum. Just about every post you submit reads like an advertisement, listing as many products as you can that you sell and promote. You use this forum like no other dealer does. We also have the right to show our displeasure in the way you promote your business.
 
You can choose to read our posts or not, seems like you have the time....it's completely up to you.

Excuse me Rbach we seems like just you. 

There are tons of people here that read and respect our posts.

Doesnt seem like you add anything to the discussion at hand

Can you post some pictures of your home theater or music and theater rig so others can glean your commitment and system experiences? 

Excuse me Rbach we seems like just you.

Is English a second language for you?