Classe move to China

Actually, I thought that the best overall country today was Canada followed by Sweden. So this Classe thing saddens me.

From what I heard Japan is changing and not a society of workaholics anymore, generally speaking. Many Germans are, in fact. Sickness goes around the world; it's viral in origin, I believe.
Let us be French for a change.

"Where and when?"

1979: Three Mile Island, nr. Harrisburg, Pa.: one of two reactors lost its coolant, which caused overheating and partial meltdown of its uranium core. Some radioactive water and gases were released. This was the worst accident in U.S. nuclear-reactor history. (approximately 2.5 million curies of radioactive gases, and approximately 15 curies of iodine-131 plus 40,000 gallons of radioactive waste into Susquehanna River). Cleanup cost - $1 billion.

That's two major accidents. There were 8 others smaller accidents with deaths or steam release.

You got a point Pubul57. I know there are tech manufacturers in China who can produce high quality electronic components. Out of country companies need frequent contact with them to insure standards are maintained.

Magfan,

Imagine, that restaurant you own poisoned and killed many people. There are many lawsuits against you, but you announced bankruptcy, judge waived off any legal action against you (while restaurant still operates) and next day you register the same restaurant as a new business with the same name and owner. Impossible? GM did just that. Why would you even attempt manufacturing safe cars when you know that at the end nothing is going to happen to you.

In 1975 Toyota made safety standard for the rest of the world with Corolla - a car that can hit wall at 40mph without any injury to driver. At the same time similar exercise with Chevy Chevette virtually guaranteed dead of the driver.

Japanese did not put Coke bottles or nuts for a joke - they believed in what they were doing and it shows today.

We cannot even comprehend dedication to work they have. Manager of water supply in Tokyo committed suicide after being unable to provide water to residents.

It would be great to hear some facts regarding these 10 nuclear accidents that the US has had. Where and when? The radioactive liquid and gases at TMI were within the containment building. I'm not sure if you understand the way that building works, but it did it's job. As I said, facts would be great.

"How can that be? How do they compete in this global economy?"

They are GERMANS first last and always. They work together. And work and workers are respected in Germany. That's how.

Actually, building a car is a well-known 'art'.
Building it RIGHT? Many things come into play from choice of materials....High Strength steel is a bigger player these days since you can build as strong or stronger with less weight all the way to computer simulations.

All for naught, however, without a proper manufacturing facility and trained workers. An Uncle of mine once bought a car.....American.....and it had a strange noise. Nobody could figure it out. Finally, in an unrelated repair, a COKE BOTTLE was found in a hollow space with a Ha-Ha note. That was the source of the noise.

The man who taught Japan how to make things right is ::: Deming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

Lately, with and after the advent of ISO standards and audits, They are a Quality Managment system, they don't tell you what or how to do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9000

and perhaps the latest Asian Import:: A system called 6S.

http://www.vitalentusa.com/learn/6s_article.php

It is vital to continue to do more with less.....improve quality and provide a safe workplace.

The Japanese were always good at adapting to new technology and improving upon it. After Admiral Perry visited in 1854 to what was a closed society, 50 years later, they were sinking the Russian fleet in the russo-japanese war. BTW, who showed them how to make aircraft carriers and the zero fighter?

"Kijanki, are you listening to what we are saying or what? "

Yes, I do, but understanding you is the hard part.

"Not sure who taught them how to screw up with nuclear power though"

Perhaps we did.

In 1979 "Three Mile Island" accident we managed to make meldown and release of radioactive gases plus 40,000galons of radioactive waste into the river without any Earthquake or Tsunami.

Japan had 3 nuclear accidents so far, we had 10.

Back to sixties and seventies there were many American engineers who went to Japan because of opportunities to build something different from typical Detroit 20 feet long iron.
Kijanki, are you listening to what we are saying or what?

"Yeah, who do you think taught Japanese how to make cars"

You mean cars like Edsel, Chevy Corvair., Ford Maveric, Ford Pinto, Ford Tempo, Ford Taurus, Chevy Vega, Chevy Chevette, Chevy Citation, AMC Pacer, AMC Gremlin, Doge Omni, Plymouth Horizon, Pontaic GTO, Cadilac Eldorado?

They must've been not listening when we taught them.

Yeah, who do you think taught Japanese how to make cars, electronics etc. ? American designers and engineers. Not sure who taught them how to screw up with nuclear power though.

Onhwy61 - Please don't mention Chevy Vega. I'm still trying to forget the one I had in 80s. Same goes for 1986 Ford Taurus - even bigger piece of shit. My current 16 year old Toyota Avalon, built in Kentucky, works like Swiss watch. No repairs, no rust - perfection. It all depends on design and management. China makes some bad stuff but also makes Apple computers. Stereophile mentioned once that quality of one of the British audio companies actually improved when they moved to China (perhaps modernizing assembly line). Surface mount electronic assembling is a very well controlled process and it practically doesn't matter where executed. When I have a choice I always try to buy "Made in USA" but won't buy another Ford ever, sorry.

I didn't say they started the war, I said they were responsible for it. The French pushed for and got the harsh pentalies against Germany in the treaty of Versailles. President Wilson's 14 points were much more even handed. They mocked Wilson, saying the good Lord only had 10 points. The French Military saw the danger and was against the terms. Why do you think the greaat depression hit Germany harder than any other country. No Versailles, no Hitler, no Hitler, no war. It's a little more involved, but this is a music forum, so i'll keep it short.

Sounds like some of you guys just got back from Occupy Wall Street. I hear the Outside Asylum calling.

And I forgot to mention that it is Chinese who will direct the asteroid's trajectory towards the Earth. China is already a space nation and in a few decades they will be far ahead of everyone else and eventually they will control space in our solar system and perhaps beyond. How is that for "scary" ?

Japan modeled a good deal after us,Germany never did,especially in their educational system which they,correctly,deemed better than ours.
They adopted a parmaential Social Democracy as opposed to our semi-feudal system of "checks and balances" expressly
designed to thwart democracy.

Kurt_Tank, a strongly regulated capitalist driven open market. No system has ever been perfect. The future will be more of the same.

Danlib 1, greed is neither inherently good or bad (let's ignore the 7 deadly sins). It's an human behavior pattern which is essential to an individual's survival. While individuals may afford ethical behavior, the capitalist free market model is purposely lacking ethics. In essence it states that the unbridled pursuit of ones' self interest will lead to the most efficient distribution of society's resources with the least curbs on individual freedom. A morally good outcome arises from the chaos of human impulses -- a neat trick if it truly worked. Based upon your comments about ethical standards, I suspect that we really don't disagree, that much.

Fiddler, check out these Dwight Yoakam lyrics from "Readin', Rightin', Route 23"

They learned readin', rightin', Route 23
To the jobs that lay waiting in those cities' factories
They didn't know that old highway
Could lead them to a world of misery

To claim that labor unions destroyed the car companies is non-factual. When times were good at the Big 3, nobody claimed labor unions were the authors, so why blame them when things went bad? Now if the Chevy Vega or Ford Pinto had been designed by the UAW, I might be open to changing my mind. Blaming the union is like blaming home buyers for the mortgage debt/financial collapse. But then again, certain types of people look past the facts and do blame the borrower.

Rok2id, France started WWII -- please explain.

I can't even spell right anymore:(

Where I'd the Thorazine!

Asteroid is going to hit the Earth soon enough and then all countries will be finished. And it will be all over again. Now that's fun.

here was a email I got today that might work for the USA if it holds any truth.

http://cdnapi.kaltura.com/index.php/kwidget/wid/0_04vzdsr5/uiconf_id/5590821

ABC news report with david muir and diane sawyer.

Macrojack kind of scary isn't it?

Well, there's another brand I don't ever have to consider buying. In my opinion their quality went down after DR and it will likely go down even more.

TO bad nobody has ever been able to find a cure for human greed. Things might be different.......

"We didn't notice or care because we were living better than the rest of the world. "

Used to be the case for sure. We still live better than most of the world, but not all. Chances are others will continue catch and perhaps surpass us as well.

There have never been any guarantees though. Things change but individuals that are motivated and have ability will continue to find a way, assuming they are able to afford an education.....

Unfortunately this country is finished - sold out by big business and politicians - it is not a question of if, but a question of when. We are forced to buy alot of stuff from China as part of everyday life essentials. For non-essential (luxury) items where there is a choice to buy American (i.e. Audio Gear) , I avoid Chinese stuff at all cost. I have owned some if it in the past, but at this point I would sooner buy used gear made in the USA than new gear made in China. It is just a personal choice, but I am remined of it every time I look at my young Grandson and ask myself what he will do for a living when he grows up, and what opportunity will be available. Everyone can't work in Health Care, Service, and Retail. There will soon be nothing else left.

Nonoise:

I agree with what you said, but I will add this, none of this is being done behind closed doors or in smoked filled back rooms, it's being done right in our faces, and we like little easily manipulated sheep just go along. That revolution that we fought for at such a great price was stolen long ago. We didn't notice or care because we were living better than the rest of the world.

Mapman is right - the other shoe has dropped and we are waiting for it to hit the floor. My motto, since I became aware of the inevitability we face, has been, " I can't keep it from happening, but I might be able to keep it from happening to me". Now I'm starting to think I've been kidding myself with that one.
What happens if the Oval Office and both Houses go Republican? We could all get notices the following week that our mortgages are being called in. Instantly, we become a nation of renters. Think in terms of the quintessential coal mining community where the company owns the housing and the only place to buy anything (including food) is from the company. No money anywhere to be seen because we all work for the company and we all have charge accounts at the store that we cannot afford to pay off because our wages are scaled to keep us that way.

Somebody please, tell me why that won't happen.

It's a global economy now and will become more so as time goes on. Its the natural progression of things. Other than complain, not much choice but to get used to it and adapt. Change is hard.

01-04-12: Pubul57
What car is built in SC? I'm going to buy one!

BMW for one

As with many countries, both good and bad products come from China.

Its kind of sad to be of an age where I've personally witnessed the decline and now, downward spiral, of our economy. It needn't be this way: other courses were and are readily available. Its a failure of will on the part of the electorate to fully participate (by simply paying attention and voting) and the rise of sociopaths in positions of power in industry with the means to buy off politicians. It happens to every great and small country at every stage of our existence. Take any form of government, be it a dictatorship, a monarchy, a democracy and pull away the facade and you'll find oligarchs. Oligarchs are nothing more than people who've amassed great fortunes and are willing to use some degree of coercive violence to keep it. That violence can manifest itself from retinues of personal mercenaries and standing armies to something as ubiquitous as a tax code.

There's lots of window dressing that we all fall for.

Read Karl Marx, and as some smart guy once said, People always get the type of Government they deserve.

Illiteracy is a point well taken by the automotive industry. Workers here needed color coded manuals to aid in following directions as opposed to the Canadians who didn't. What won out were the guarantees made by our politicians of giant tax breaks and promises to keep the unions out.

Oh, those bad, bad unions who are nothing more than the lobbyist for the workers to help compete against the lobbyists of the corporate masters. Funny how one is lionized and the other disparaged. Those of the upper strata are heavily socialized to the point of absurdity but damn if they'll allow that kind of cooperation for the workers.

Damn commies!

How many of you who would never consider buying Chinese made hi-end audio gear shop at Wal-Mart regularly?

Macrojack, I will not purchase anything at Walmart for exactly the reasons you listed.

Their slogan "Save Money, Live Better" should read,
"Save Money, Live Better Maybe, Screw your neighbor, Screw your country".

Again, a shortage of skilled workers.[http://www.charlestonbusiness.com/news/41665-companies-face-shortage-of-highly-skilled-employees?rss=0]

What car is built in SC? I'm going to buy one!

I've already proven you wrong, Hifihvn. Can you read?

I explained to you the condition of the 5 counties in S.C. that your article referenced. S.C. has a huge minority population and it is an unfortunate reality that minorities haven't done very well on literacy tests. But you made the huge leap from one article you read to assert that the whole of S.C. is illiterate. That is simply stupid.

I also proved you wrong by logically exposing the naked truth that the huge corporations who have moved to S.C. would have done their due diligence on the potential workforce before investing billions of dollars in the state. Their actions speak far louder than your mere words taken completely out of context.

If you took the time to even read the second round of articles that you just posted, they destroy your own argument. Never once do they say how many people moved from Appalachia - it is entirely anecdotal in the article. Secondly, it appears that your assertion that they were functionally illiterate is blatantly wrong as the articles described how the Southerners stayed in the Detroit area and apparently thrived.

Your last article hangs you out to dry again. Here are the test scores from the article you referenced. Apparently you did nothing more than read the headline. The test scores show how close S.C. scores are to the national average.

"In reading, South Carolina’s fourth-graders had an average score of 215 in 2011, a decline of one point from 2009. The nation’s average score was 220 in 2011. South Carolina’s eighth-graders had average score 260, an increase of three points from 2009, while the national average score increased by two points to 264.

In mathematics, South Carolina’s fourth-graders had an average score of 237, an increase of one point, and the national average was 240. Eighth-graders’ mathematics scores increased one point to an average score of 281, and the national average was 283."

Maybe you should just quit while you are behind. You continue to needlessly embarrass yourself.

Fiddler, you know it is the truth!

Fiddler- great smackdown, and well deserved.

I have lived all over the country, including S.C. Are there stupid and uneducated people there? Sure, but have you ever been to an automotive plant in Detroit during shift change. Yeah, that's my idea of literacy.
Fiddler (Threads | Answers | This Thread)

"have you ever been to an automotive plant in Detroit during shift change. Yeah, that's my idea of literacy."
What is the above statement referring to?

Basically, spoken like a true Fidder!

Prove the Wikipedia article wrong.

Just stating facts.

More links for Y'all

[http://www.detroitblog.org/?p=1475][http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/102200.html][http://lexington-sc.patch.com/articles/s-c-superintendent-38-percent-of-students-functionally-illiterate]

Yeah, but would you buy a Classe amp assembled in South Carolina?

OK, you got me,I'm kidding.

"I would hope they do something to save one of our largest exporters from suicide. South Carolina is one of the top illiterate states, among others from Appalachia."

That is such an ignorant statement it's laughable.

The five counties mentioned in the article referenced by Hifihvn are not in the manufacturing districts of S.C. and in fact, they are all very poor, black communities. Sure, illiteracy is high in these counties, but that's like saying the rest of S.C. is like these five counties just like the rest of Michigan is like the inner-city of Detroit.

Here's a classic example of a little knowledge gleaned from the internet being dangerous - and also prejudicial sounding at the same time.

I am sure that BMW and Boeing and the many international companies with manufacturing plants in South Carolina didn't do their due diligence on the workforce before they invested billions (with a B) into their plants in S.C.

Not to mention the fact that S.C. was the center of textile manufacturing in the country before the industry evaporated to China due to slave labor wages in China. Hard to believe the illiterates in S.C. were once responsible for the success of textile manufacturing in the U.S.

"General Motors decided to hire people without even a high school diploma. It backfired on them. They had to pay their employees to get rid of them! A lot of them went back to Appalachia, with their money, spent it, and are looking for other big paying jobs now. There are not anymore big paying easy handouts for them, except now, maybe Boeing?"

Once again - stupid remarks on their face.

Appalachia didn't run to Detroit in great numbers at all. And the Wiki article that Hifihvn references doesn't even support his stupid conclusions.

It's the unions that have killed General Motors and the rest of Detroit. General Motors problems are home grown!

Hey Hifihvn, it's amazing, huh, that many car companies have located in the South, including east Tennessee (Appalachia), but yet the labor force is entirely illiterate and uncapable (yeah right). Who would have ever thought that these mega companies would risk billions of dollars in manufacturing infrastructure only to find out there are no workers capable of doing the work. I guess they forgot to first ask Hifihvn about the labor pool before they wasted all of their money.

I have lived all over the country, including S.C. Are there stupid and uneducated people there? Sure, but have you ever been to an automotive plant in Detroit during shift change. Yeah, that's my idea of literacy.

Dyn,
I've worked semiconductor manufacturing for decades....in the fab. I've helped make enough ICs and Discrete components to sink a ship. All changes to procedures are vetted and go thru a sign off loop, with the exception of the 'temporary' change which has a few special provisions and has a 24 hour time limit and is used only as an emergency containment or if a specific piece of equipment is down.

But, the REAL question is one of training and quality management system. For example, is the facility in question ISO audited? Are all employees trained and certified in the operations they perform? Are quality records kept? Rework procedures approved and certified? and on and on.

Chinese, Russians and Arabs buying up everything valuable in America including the currency, and they are concerned about Iran and even North Korea?
Well, if we continue like that we will soon be working at their factories in China and speak Mandarin.