Choosing a network player/streamer

OK so I have the Bryston DAC3.  I bought the BDP3 and the BOT and had nothing but trouble with them.  As you mentioned the Manic Moose is terrible.  I tried using third party apps but they didn’t work well either.  I eventually sold off the BDP 3 and used the funds to pay for a streamer that actually works..  In my case I bought the Melco N100, because I also needed a new server, but then I added the Cambridge Audio CXN 60 be cause it has superb Internet Radio, Chromecast and AirPlay.  Both the Melco and the CA sound great through the DAC3.  The CA also has a capable DAC which I bypass but could live with if the DAC3 ever goes down.

  As you have discovered, the app to control a streamer is a huge part of the experience.  The BDP3 sounded great but the frustration level of using it took the fun out of listening to music.

“The Bryston interface is problematic and just not intuitive to use. So now I’m looking for a compelling reason to keep the Bryston BDP-3”

Do you like being miserable? If yes, then keep the BDP-3. As @mahler123 points out, the app to control a streamer is a huge part of the streaming experience. You like the Yamaha np-s303 sound and ease of use, so what else is holding you back to make a switch? 

I was just hoping someone could report having had good experiences with the Bryston. Possibly some easy methods that I have not discovered.  I hope James and Chris from Bryston might take some pointers from Audiogon members and make adjustments to MM.  I really like the format and build quality of the equipment.  I just wish it was easy to use like Yamaha.  If the MM software was similar to Yamaha's Musicast,  everyone would rave about how great and easy and FUN it was to use. 

In my opinion there is one other option to consider, and that is if you were interested in pursuing Roon.  In that case the Bryston BDP3 would make for a superb Roon endpoint.  And if willing to make the investment ... Roon makes for a superb interface, especially if streaming from one's own library, or from Qobuz and/or Tidal. Just my 2 cents. Yamaha player, to my knowledge, is not Roon ready, so Roon would not be an option.

No one has ever reported fun with Manic Moose - appropriately named. It takes a complete IT dept. to make software better. Or open source like LMS that does Roon too if you feel like another subscription.

I am not familiar with either one of them but I have a few thoughts anyway (wish more people would start their post that way).  

Can you tell the difference between them sonicly?  I'm sure you know there is the camp that says "digital is just 1s and 0s" and thus you should not get any improved performance from any streamer.  I am of the opinon that the differnce is minute and frankly I'm in the process of trying to figure out what a streamer, either expensive or iniexpensive, would improve for me.  So your post is nice to see. 

I agree that you should definitely move on from the Bryston.  Whether you should stay with the Yamaha depends on if there is any difference in the sound and if there is anything that could be had from an upgrade (to something besides the Bryston).

I always consider it a win when you find a basic peice of equipment that performs well.

Good luck,

Jerry

+1 @jazzman7 

I just made the jump to Roon and wish I had done it a long time ago.  Improved sound quality, user interface and connectivity have been huge in my experience.

Roon may see the Yamaha.  Has anyone with roon plugged in the Yamaha streamer to see if roon detects it?

Bricasti makes several excellent dac- streamers ,the M3 can be bought for just under $6 k and is a excellent buy.

Roon seems like a possible candidate to enable the BDP to shine. I wouldn't mind having to pay a subscription if it was truly transforming.  I will investigate...

It may be my CDO affecting my choice, because the complete system all in Bryston is somehow satisfying to me. I guess that's a bit superficial,  as the "sound" is really what's important.  And I don't perceive an audible difference between the Bryston and the Yamaha. 

Thanks everyone for your thought provoking points. 

I would recommend looking at an Aurender streamer. I own two after many including an Auralic Aries G2 and being disappointed. Aurender has a great interface… incredible natural sound quality. Plug in, register to Qobuz (the best streaming survive) and go. If you want you can add some of your own misic files. Aurender only manufactures streamers, they are great sounding and easy to use. I own their N100 and W20SE. Most audio show demos use their W20SE as source equipment.

OP, take a look at Innous streamers.  Innous makes excellent streamers at varying price points.  Innous streamers come with the Sense music app, which sounds better than Roon - IMHO and Sense is FREE. Sense is easy to use and integrates with Quobuz and Tidal (although the Tidal integration is still a work-in-progress).

From a music management ease of use standpoint, Roon is the best that I've ever used.  I purchased a Roon lifetime subscription a long time ago and have about 25 playlists consisting of a mix of my CDs ripped to my Innous Zenith, Tidal, and Quobuz tracks so I still use it.  For critical listening, I use Sense. 

You have to look at the bigger picture. If you are going to use usb to the dac, then it doesn’t matter what you use for the streamer/server, you won’t get good sound quality from that interface. Why do you think the best dacs either recommend or don’t use usb or if you look at the latest wadex server review, Harley stated the optical interface sounded much better than it’s usb connection to its dac.

I have 3 systems. The main one has a DCS Vivaldi stack and the other 2 have the Bryston BDP3

I have owned the top of range Melco and the Aurender, and Innuos statement also the tested the Tyko Extreme

The DCS is by far the best .. surprise surprise.

I quite liked the manic moose when it was available but when it was discontinued I have been very frustrated with Safari 

I tried Regalion and also Bubbles somewhere. Yes it is a serious irritation with the BDP and Bryston seem to not care

Roon is sonically inferior when used with the Vivaldi upsampler, and the reasons can be better explained by a techie

Roon takes up more resources than my Nas has, so I had to run it on a linked ssd drive (see.. Roon interferes and does too much with a normal flow)

Also I disliked the Roon interface as I want a simple file structure

The Aurender app is by far the best out there, but does not work with DCS or Bryston

At any level below the DCS - my preference is for the BDP3

Hard to go wrong with the Yamaha MusicCast system. I love how easy it is to use on the WXA-50 which is running the bedroom system.

My thoughts exactly travelinjack, but I still hope to achieve success using the Bryston. 

I use my bdp2 via Roon or Audirvana and have no problem besides having to go into settings and click Roon ready every so often.. (if I turn my computer off)

I don’t ever get the urge to upgrade as this setup works great! 

If the OP really can’t perceive a difference between the Yamaha and the Bryston, imho he should sell off the Bryston and be done with it.  I get what he is saying about brand loyalty, and I held on to the BDP3 for about a year longer than I should have because I felt the same way, but ultimately it was Bryston attitude towards the problems with their controlling software, as another poster noted, that killed my loyalty.  I still use and love the DAC, which btw is the first DAC that I have encountered where the usb is not a compromise, and Bryston makes good power amps, but I will probably never buy anything from them again.  The BOT was also a POS.

  I tried a Roon trial with the BDP3, but my previous server couldn’t handle it.  If you go the Roon route make sure that you have a lot of computing firepower.  And then if you have problems down the road, I suspect you will have Roon and Bryston pointing fingers at each other

  when I bought the Melco N100 my original intent was just to use it as a server with the BDP3, but the Melco dealer talked me out of it, and I’m glad he did.  The Melco as a player equaled, if not exceeded, the BDP3 sonically .  I haven’t tried Roon with the Melco but there is a Melco fb Forum and others seem pleased.

  I used Rigelian with the BDP3.  It was an improvement over Manic Moose—that is a low bar—and it was free, but it couldn’t find about half the music on server, and was unstable, leading to a lot of deletes and rebooting.

  I added a SHM DSP to the system for Room Correction.  It basically threw in a free streamer and said streamer sounded very thin with the DAC3.  So all streamers are not created equally.  However if the OP finds the Yamaha to be a good fit…

Tried the other players but kept coming back to the terrible interface on the bdp, reason is that it's sound is usually better but the software is bullet proof but admittedly difficult as a user experience. Bryston's software allows for an unlimited number of files as well, which the others don't. 

Both Aurilic and Innuous had buggy software and to be fair although it was prettier to use, I just got frustrated with each of them.

A rumour has it that Bryston wants to keep their underlying tech in the BDP but place on a better interface on top... They should have done this a couple of years ago, but I guess they've just been a little slow during covid to transition to something new.

Mesonto, has there been any official statement from Bryston to that effect?

I have the BRYSTON BDP1-USB player and BRYSYON BDA2 dac stablemates. (not the current 3rd generation models) purchased pre-owned to experiment as I dip my toes in the enigma of servers and streamers.

GOOD NEWS:

- It sounds fine regardless, especially at its price point, especially the DAC. … But intuitively not at the DCS performance strata intuitively.

BAD NEWS:

- the digital player software setup playback software and clumsy user interface can test my patience to the max and jack up my frustration tolerance to its limits.

- At its worst: the digital player software / user interface using BRYSTON’s own free Manic Moose can just plain suck.

- At its best: RIGELIAN is still less than ideal and is still a bit buggy for my tastes but it is attractively bargain priced.

TAKEAWAY: As aptly already highlighted by prior post contributors, the entire digital playback experience, user interface utility, and satisfaction can be tested and even harmed by player OEMs remaining agnostic to addressing and improving the player software and user interface used to set it up and run it.