The only way to choose speakers is to listen to them unfortunately. And if he gets a really good pair of speakers he may want a better amp than the PeachTree anyway.
??? How Do You Determine How Far You Can Take An Amp When Choosing Speakers ???
Talking to a friends son today who is only a few years into this hobby..He’s moved up from an all in one home theater system to a gently used Peachtree Audio Nova ( Gen.1 ) that his dad had sitting in a box the last few years..
As he is an Electrical Engineering student, he’s gone through the amp & refurbished it with new caps,resistors,transistors & a new 6922 tube from Gold Lion...
His speakers are also hand me downs from pops..A set of original Dynaudio Audience 52’s..While discussing speaker upgrades he asked me the same question I posted in my thread title..I honestly didn’t know how to answer him..
I’ve always worked on the budget basis,seeking out the best option for my given price range..He’s already making $ hand over fist & he stated flatly he didn’t have a budget in mind,being willing to spend as much as it took to get the absolute best speakers his amp would support..
At some point in the future I’m sure he will finally get the urge to upgrade the amp but that could be many years from now..
So the question I pose to you is, how would you determine just how much speaker your choosen amp will sing with before becoming the weakest link in the system?Twice the retail value of the amp?3 times,5 times,10?
I realize most common system building dogma dictates choosing speakers first then buying an amp for them but he's already got the amp so that doesn't work here...
I know synergy between speakers & amp plays some importance in the final overall sound but he lives in an area not known for being an audio store hotspot & dragging his amp to stores several hundred miles away seems like a real PITA...Any advice?
I don't overthink it. My speakers are amp agnostic, so I just got the best Hypex NCx500 Monoblocks and run them as I have music that is transient heavy so peak power and sustained power is important and the Apollon implementation of the Hypex modules is endgame material. @freediver |
Money is always an issue but not the key issue here.
You always want an amp capable of driving specific speakers to their max without having to break a sweat for best performance/objective results. Beefier amps will do it with more speakers. Less efficient speakers will work best with fewer amps.
Note: What works best from a technical/engineering perspective is not the same as what sounds best to a particular listener. What someone thinks sounds best is a purely subjective determination.
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"Weakest link" and "source first" philosophies (etc) belie the nuanced complexities of human perception and system building. Though when you’re starting out, it can help to establish a sense of order amongst the chaos. You can have great successes and failures with any of these combinations:
By "cheap" I don’t mean junk, and I’m including used-market bargains. Finding a beloved cheap amp & cheap speakers setup is also possible, but for most of us here this is playing the game in "hell" mode difficulty - same with buying only new at MSRP. Like any nontrivial hobby this is a journey, and a young man like your friend’s son will have to find his own legs, then start forging his preferred path. Since he’s a capable EE, he might look into vintage amps. I think also it’s important to hear several different speakers brands & configurations, to start shaping a sense of what you like. I honed in on Tannoy as my favorite speakers, and since then I’ve grown quite fond of pairing them to "extravagant tube amps" - but vintage tube amps are still fun too, and modern solid state (even Class D) can sound good too! Tell him to go forth and explore! |
@freediver Sounds like your friend may have a lot of gear around? Including some hard to drive speakers perhaps? If so, you may want to advise his EE son to grab his oscilloscope and see how soon the Peachtree starts clipping when driving the hard to drive speakers. Depending on what he sees, he may decide to start considering more capable amps. |
Wow, that is a challenging question. It’s a bit easier if thinking about the beginning of the audio chain, since if you have a poor signal, better components may make it sound worse. But at the speaker end, unless you are under powering the amp, generally, the better the speaker the better it will sound... I guess unless you are getting a tremendously detailed speaker... for example Magico... too revealing. I have heard Magico make some pretty good equipment sound bad. Hmm, thinking out loud... obviously. Most of us are trying to set ourselves up for the next upgrade. But sounds like he does not want to. So, I’d go for the 2x to 3x area. If he doesn't know he is going to upgrade in the future... then being conservative makes sense. |
I suggest something like some vintage tannoy’s with the 12 or 15 inch concentrics (monitor gold) that maybe need a bit of work. High efficiency, amazing sound especially the bass response. @mulveling may have some advice here if that is of interest. The other point I would make is spending what may seem disproportionate on speakers may not be a bad thing. For example, for about 3 years my Harbeth 40.3’s did double duty as 5.1 mains driven by a $2K avr (Yamaha RX A3080) and I often used it for streaming music for casual listening. It sounded remarkably good compared to a dedicated digital source and through a T+A 3100 HV So get some really nice but well priced efficient speakers that could hang for an amp upgrade or 2 |
In Absolute Sound there is a review of Kef Meta 11’s and they use a Peachtree and then much more expensive amps to show the difference a quality amp will bring out in the speakers. But they state the differences and while good, are not extreme. This might help you understand the limits of what your amp is capable of. Also at your price point you might consider the Meta 7’s which might be available at your local chain store. Cheers , Mike B. https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/kef-r11-meta-loudspeaker/ |
After being done with the Radio Shack "kid stuff" (late 60s) and only having one real human source for advice. The guy was a neighbor and an EE and had a single Klipsch Klipschhorn driven by all mono Mc gear. Fat story slim...he advised buying the very best speakers you can and work backwards to the source (remember it was only LPs, radio and tape). I took his advice and a few years later bought a pair of Hartley Reference loudspeakers and I still have them (tri-amped). Went through Sansui amps, David Hafler amps, ARC amps and landed on Pass Labs amps with a Ref6 about a year ago. Took a while to climb that ladder, but I'm glad I did it that way. For you friend's son: Look and listen for a long time and purchase the speakers you love. They will not disappoint. PS. Those Hartleys cost $10K back then and everyone thought I was bonkers, crazy, irresponsible and insane. But I'm still smiling. Regards, barts
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There is no rule of thumb. Once you get the BS budget etc. out of the equation it is quite simply sound appreciation and how do you give that in advice form. Certainly speakers have an operating range in specification posted. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize the amp should have headroom. As said sound is personal limitations are mechanical. My Speaker system being fairly inefficient require considerable current, that said I chose a necessary by-amp style of amplification that weighs in at the far side of 200 pounds. With safety considered I love the sound..at any volume ! |