Can an “audiophile” ever be satisfied with a system?
After I finally found a great used Woodsong Garrard 301, I was inspired to upgrade my entire system. After 49 years of building up, am I finally off the merry-go-round?? Or are the improvements never-ending?? Now coming a new Triplanar tonearm, SRA platform for the 301 and Stillpoints for the preamp. What’s left? New cartridge? New TV? Think the clearly endless quest is buying LPs! Hope I am satisfied. Got a lot of great deals on new and used stuff but adding it all up puts me up to over $100K!
That is an excellent question. Currently I am very satisfied with my system and have been since I got some new stuff, months ago. But..... Right this minute, I’m wondering (to quote the popular song) “Is that all there is?” So, I believe it all comes down to your mental state, rather than the quality of your equipment. If you’re bored you look for something new, whether it warrants it or not. In other words, you create a problem where there isn’t any. That’s the nature of “ audiophilia.”
The thrill of expecting something new is great. Not to mention receiving something “bright and shinny”. Chuck, you have gone to incredible lengths to tweak your system. Even inventing things! Wish I could bring myself to pay $199+ for Better-records White Hot Stampers. Good recordings are the “final frontier”.
Thanks. Appreciate it. But really, all I do is listen, read, think, try things out, and listen some more. Turns out every one of those steps matters. Especially "try". A number of things are dirt cheap to free.
But really, right now I am beyond satisfied with my system. Many times lately I actually find it hard to believe how good it sounds. Like last night listening to Year of the Cat I was like why is it so much better? Then remembered adding more springs since the last time I played it. Stupid springs, $60 worth of springs.
Thing is, its not like I got them because I was dissatisfied with anything. Heck before ordering I was freaking beside myself pleased. Now even more so. In fact its kind of a good news bad news situation. When you're at a low level just about anything is better. Everything and I mean everything beats the freebie rubber power cord. When you're at this level very seldom do you just plop something in and not have to work to tweak it to be just right. You can go read about the resonance hum that drove me crazy until I figured it out.
But its been like that a long time now. Thirty years at least. Almost 50, if you want to go back to using egg crates as acoustic panels as a teenager. Come to think of it, I was pretty satisfied with my system then too.
mglik, you can sell your system and put the proceeds toward's good psychotherapy. When the money run's out, the Dr. will pronounce there is nothing wrong with you. Now can begin your new system, but will never be able to afford what you had. THEN you'll realize you WERE happy with it. Good luck.
"Wish I could bring myself to pay $199+ for Better-records White Hot Stampers. Good recordings are the “final frontier”."
With $100K spent on your rig, why wouldn't you spend a little more for a good press? I wouldn't be playing new reissues on that nice setup of yours. You can hear the same thing with a nice digital setup for considerably less.
Unless your taste in music is unobtanium stuff-original Jazz/Classical and much of pre 80's Classic Rock, those same LP's Better Records sells just have to be found through discogs research and bin diving.
Also, I hope its not in the living room with the TV and the coffee table in front of the sofa? If so, it may not be performing up to it's potential. Those Stillpoints aren't gonna replace a dedicated space, with speakers out in the room.
I don’t think “satisfied” and wondering if you can do better are mutually exclusive. To me “satisfied” has connotations of a value proposition. If you get the same sound with $50k that you did from $5k then that would be problematic. The sound you are getting can still be fabulous, but it’s hard to remove expectations based on price. The question isn’t so much can I make it better (always), but what’s the best way and how much will it cost?
Yes... since I got Don Sachs' tube front end, the Aqua La Voce DAC, and Spatial Audio speakers in my system. I am extremely content with my the sound of my system.
OP, Interesting question which really is very psychologically particular to you. Not knowing you, here are a few takes:
One is that you have to stay on the Merry Go Round because you seek Nirvana and since you’ve never been to Nirvana, you can’t know what it sounds like. You’re on an asymptote. It won’t end.
Another is that as you’ve grown, you’ve learned and because you’ve learned, you’ve realized how much more there is to know and experience. Something Millercarbon said in this regard made me think that we’re not "trapped" in some kind of circle but are rather on an evolving spiral. The question he raises (I think) is, "Are you learning to listen?" Because if you’re not doing that, then you’re really just a shopaholic and that is a non-evolving circle.
Some with this hobby just seek out "flags" to wave. Once they find a brand of speaker, amp, etc. they just decide it’s "the best" and then it becomes the magic word answer to about half the questions. In other words, for some, the question of "Am I there yet?" is answered by a brand.
Then there is Steve Guttenberg’s answer -- which I really like. He says that the quest for the "best system" is a mistake. It’s better to seek a "good enough" system ("good enough" to sink you into the music) and then if you’re feeling antsy, to realize that boredom may not be dissatisfaction with one’s system, but a desire for a different sound. Some nights we eat Italian, other nights Chinese food, etc. In other words, hearing music with different gear (or tweaks, cables, etc.) adds "variety" and not "betterness." Variety is the spice of life.
hilde45, I think the variety come with the genre of music not the equipment. Good enough? This concept is probably right. Once you are into the really expensive gear you evaluate it based on whatever criteria you have in mind. For instance the very best turntable which meets all of my criteria is the Dohmann Helix. For me there is no better turntable not that a better one is not possible. That would make the Helix "good enough." Once your entire system is "good enough" are you finished"
’So, I believe it all comes down to your mental state, rather than the quality of your equipment. If you’re bored you look for something new, whether it warrants it or not. In other words, you create a problem where there isn’t any. That’s the nature of “ audiophilia.”
I would tend to agree.
One half, the fun half of the journey is discovering what you want, and then finding it. The other half is often a problem of obsession that’s self created.
’Comparison is the thief of joy’ (Teddy Roosevelt) is one troubling quote that I recently can’t quite get out of my head.
Is life really like that scene out of ’Oliver’ where Fagin trips and watches as the contents of his jewel box slowly disappear into the muddy waters?
All about getting, but never fully enjoying?
Might be worth remembering that most audiophiles already have systems far superior to what the other 99% of the world’s population are using.
Perhaps a satisfied audiophile is really a contradiction in terms? With so much to love about this hobby, perhaps it’s also a difficult question to fully answer.
My system is "good enough" to listen to piano and symphonic mass....
In the last years i put all energy in my listenings experiments to improve the system.... Now i listen to music without making listenings experiments most of the times...
Sound erase itself for the music....
I can imagine that people without too much limit about money can afford to be a peculiar kind of audiophile.... I do not, my goal was to create a "good enough" audio system at very low cost.... I succeed....
With my "good enough" system i smile to new music, not so much to sound improvement now....
My cheap system is the best i ever listen to...I listen to Tannoy dual gold monitor and Magnepan, believe it or not, because they are well embed, and these others 2 were not, my modest Mission Cyrus speakers beats them....And none of my 6 headphones is better than my speakers.... It was the contrary 2 years ago....
@mijostyn Well, we should agree to disagree -- I see no reason that one (with the means) would not want to haul out, say, electrostatic speakers and amps for a few months and then put those away for "box" speakers and their amps. To move between different style DAC's, too. Not all parts of the system would be swapped out for variety's sake, but the notion that this idea isn't a reasonable one for some seems wrong. I think Guttenberg is on to something, though it's not how I roll....now.
I answered my own question. It is distracting and misleading to listen to a lot of old, so so LPs. But when I put on those relatively few good recordings THEN I HEAR THE FULL POTENTIAL. And I do have quite a few of those. The ones I really like, I play twice or more. BUT, I still hesitate to spend $600+ on three records from Better-Records thinking of my $15 good sounding ones. I have had about 50% luck with 180 gram reissues. I did try 2 Hot Stampers and was not impressed enough to keep them. One, a Super Hot for $99, I could not listen to side 2! Sure, a lot of it depends on liking the music. The other bottom line is “good enough is good enough”. But in upgrading there is a real effort to upgrade the sound. It is not merely “shopaholic”. I always think that I love the sound until I do even a small upgrade. With Covid I am listening to my system much more than ever. And because we are now not traveling, I am more inclined to buy.I do listen to digital when I watch Amazon and Netflix at night. Then it is great but intellectual. But the TT rig is emotional. “Wow, it sounds great” compared to “wow, I am speechless”.
Dittos to millercarbon. And others. Satisfaction isn't the goal for some of us. If I'm satisfied with the sound I might say to myself "fascinating," and then try the next interesting idea that comes along and that I can afford to implement. I still enjoy music quite a bit even when my system is configured in ways I'm not satisfied with, so the musical enjoyment remains consistent.
The Forum has been a real eye opener to many issues around my system and hobby. I never thought a I would not miss my SET before I moved to Atma-Sphere. And now I have a global view on my LP content. For years, I winnowed down my large CD collection to about 100 that I always enjoy. I have them in three folders next to my office headphone system and love to listen when I am doing biz. I do listen to several over and over. I've only fairly recently gotten serious about vinyl. I actually have already started sorting out the best LPs. It looks like I will do the same as my CDs with my hundreds of LPs. Like I have said, when it comes to being satisfied with my system it is really all about 1. Content 2. Content and 3. Content. Content for contentment!
I’ve realized for me it’s not really about being satisfied, as the urge to “try something new”
recently, I’ve learned cartridge swaps can accomplish that too. I’ve been playing with some more budget carts like a retipped dl-103 and a sumiko blue point, and even if they aren’t as “good” as what they replaced, there’s enough different and interesting that it has scratched that certain itch to try something new.
50 years on and a great sounding system (acc to others) and my answer is NO.
That particular joy of having arrived never lasts more than a few days/weeks. My own personal record, from memory, is around 2 weeks.
some friends have average to lousy systems but man do they enjoy the music. These are the blessed - they get it even if it's being filtered by an old sock.
Thank goodness I'm not blessed!! Chasing excellence is the very essence of the human spirit.
That bliss of getting some new component, especially a turntable or a cartridge, would brilliantly exciting for a week or two. Then the lustre would wear off and my mind began to crave that sensation again.
I have also seen people enjoying systems that were distorting like crazy - bass, treble, everything - and they didn't seem to notice.
Somehow they must have been able to filter out all that sonic garbage and concentrate on their drinking and dancing.
'Chasing excellence is the very essence of the human spirit.'
According to my wife, a definite NO, despite my protests! She’s right. I’m happy now but there’s always the lure of the audio grail out there. Like, do I really need those synergistic PHTs? No. But I know they’ll do something to my system.
Once you know that there are things out there that are probably "better" than what you currently have, you want to try them.
Lots of "audiophiles" are not into doing research on their own and are at the mercy of their dealers. They don't even know about crazy new or old stuff out there, and they love their system as is.
Reading these forums and getting creative is why I like my system better than their's, but ignorance is bliss. Now that I know I'll eventually need a bespoke set of power cords, I'll be scheming until I can afford them.
The exact location of the zone of diminushing returns is function of your past subjective experiences and function of the actual progress in engineering...
But this zone exist , its size is relative to many factors tough....
The basic fact of our audio life is that there exist level of technical engineering S.Q. and limitation of the amount of money available for upgrading ALL the components of an audio system to a new level of S.Q.
The question for most of us is then how can we approach a "good enough" S.Q. with low amount of money ?
The answer in my experience is it is possible to reach a "good enough" S.Q., with a strategy of embedding implementation for any audio system at any price.... This embedding strategy in my experience often exceed in positive results the costly upgrading strategy that most of us consider the only way....
If you had a relatively already good system the chance are that you dont know what this system is capable to give at his optimal working capacity rightly embedded, mechanically, electrically, and acoustically....
The most important factor for the embeddings is for sure an audio dedicated room, it is more important than the purchase of any electronic component most of the times....
The influence of the marketting propositions linked in some case to some quality increased new tech mask the most important factor in audio life : the ways to corrrectly embed your actual audio components which is the less costly and better way to improve your system and put it on another level without asking for new costly technology....
This is my only discovery in my audio life.... My listenings experiments and simple homemade devices gives me a totally new and high level experience with the same unsatisfying system i bought few years ago which is now so satisfying that upgrading it, tough possible for sure, is without real appeal.... Because with a "good enough" system you listen to music not sound and your are no more bothered by your system apparent limitations....These actual limitations of my system are no more the same limitations because they were cured by the cheap embeddings devices controls now...
My system is not the best of the world but when you listen to a symnphonic mass, distinguishing, the strings mass, the wood mass, the brass mass and the voices mass, with a natural timbre, you dont think anymore that with 10,000 dollars on a new electronic component you will be more happy.... You listen music without be frustrated thats all....
For sure buying a good speakers and a good amplifier and a good dac is a challenge but in no way too difficult if you inform yourself.... I know for sure because it was the easy part ....The other part is more difficult and ask for listenings experiments and faith in yourself and not more money....
I hope my message will make some newcomers to think and refrain themselves to throw money.... It is more fun to do it yourself and i can assure you that is is possible.... I am not technically more educated than most of you, i am not more skillful with my hands than most at all.... You must listen, think,read and try with low cost available materials and devices....
@hilda45, I think we have a misunderstanding? I just think that "good enough" has to be interpreted on an individual basis. My version of "good enough" does not care about price. So my version seeks the best possible design which I probably can not afford, at least yet. Consequently I always have a "best system" in my head which evolves as new equipment is released. I do find it interesting that my "best system" is nowhere near the most expensive system imaginable. Last I checked it was $350,000 a mere pittance. Off the merry-go-round? I seriously doubt it. Does it matter while I am listening? Absolutely not.
I get to a point where the feeling is “how can it be any better?” and “good enough is good enough!”. Then I make an improvement like changing out a couple of tubes in the phono stage of my preamp for $25 NOS... the improvement is marked and significant. More detail. more presence! Now I am waiting for a SRA platform for my TT. According to my latest audio guru, Ralph Karsten, this is a very significant improvement. And following his lead, will soon have a Triplanar arm replacing my Ortophon RS 309D arm. I expect that this will be a huge change. A $3500 arm for a $7500 one. At least, I will love to look at it and love picking it up and placing it in the run in grove! Is there an element of hearing an expected outcome? Sure. But IME, leaping up to the next level of sound reproduction is real and exciting. And sure, the rush of something new fades. But the enjoyment of hearing more deeply into the music remains.
After many decades of trying this, that, and the other, I have been closing in on extreme happiness with a very simple system * Source Oppo 105 with updated power supply section* EVS 1200 dual mono AS1200 modules with lots of mods (BUT, am in anticipation of hearing a LSA Voyager GaN amp) * Emerald Physics Open Baffle Speakers (currently 3.4s, which are amazing with most music, but in my 20 x 35 x 12 room some music needs more bass. To resolve that I am expecting 2.8s today. Same 12" concentric midrange plus 2 @ 15" carbon fiber woofers per side* Core Power 1800 for cleaning up the electric power * WireWorld Series 8 speaker cables and Interconnects* TekLine Power cords+ 4 Argent Room Lenses
@mglik a "huge" difference, no. Noticeable? Probably, but for sure the Tri Planar is a very cool arm and well designed. Nothing like pride in ownership. Next you need a pair of Ralph's MA 2 amplifiers:)
I bought my first turntable this past June (well since I was 13, so 40 years since..
Anyway, I started with a Rega P6, then I quickly upgraded to the P8 and now I have the P10, with a very noticeable improvement each step up (I had the 6 and the 8 in my room, then the 8 and the 10 at the same time). I didn’t lose any money since it was from the same dealer and all within the very generous return period.
Now I just upgraded the cart in the P10 from the Apheta3 to the Aphelion2 and I was blown away by the very real and increased sense of immediacy of dynamics. So I think im done for now until Rega releases an upgrade to either table or cart ;)
Oh I did the same thing with the Audioquest Niagara PC. Bought the 1200, then the 3000, and now i have the 5000. Lol. Ive owned different PCs over the decades but the performance of this design is very special.
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