Hi Paul,
I checked my measurements again and got the same 223 mm pivot to spindle distance. The arm has a length of approximately 250 mm from the pivot to the front centre of the headshell. The tip of the stylus is about 8 mm back from the front of the headshell which gives me about 18 mm overhang. I had no instructions with the arm so I just used the template to try to get a good fit. I assume that the same overhang can be obtained by changing both the stylus position and the pivot to spindle distance. So far the set up sounds pretty good.
Harry
|
Hi Harry, thanks for re-measuring. I'm looking forward to getting mine going once I've done a bit of horizontal bearing refurbishment.
Paul |
Hi Mario, you don't know the half of it: I also have a Rek-o-Kut Rondine Jr., and it too has a metal motor spindle and smaller wheel!! The Idler Gods certainly smile upon me, beginning in that fleamarket in Helsinki :-). Other than "Rondine" written in cursive Art Deco script, I have seen nothing else written on these, I'll look next time I go to the workshop, which is out in the country.
Congratulations Stefanl, nice catch/price, now you become a SERIOUS Lencoer!!
Over here I had not had time to try my Rega RB-300 seriously ever since I built my own Giant Lenco (Mr. Red), and so I set it up this past weekend. My God the MUSICALITY!! I was astounded!! This against a context of a parade of high-end tonearms running through my system, all of which have been stellar in various ways. But this shows me those vintage tonearms I was playing with before really did have some sort of edge in the musicality sweepstakes over modern high-end tonearms, as the Rega, though always stellar, did not match the others for overall musicality. But the first thing which struck me when I mounted it (rewired with my fave Cardas/Music Boy recipe), with the Ortofon Jubilee, on Mr. Red, was the BIG increase in musicality - smoothness, liquidity, wholeness/gestalt, PRaT, flow - ahhhhh, I'm back home again.
Then I mounted the Denon DL-103"E" to the Rega and the music jumped up again in intensity, and for the first time via the Klipsch, the Kundalini Effect!! A miracle hallelujah!! I also learned something about synergies, as while with my other speakers the Denon definitely sounded better via my active step-up, via the Klipsch the Kundalini Effect (ultra-intense PRaT) only manifested itself when I switched the Denon to the Fidelity Research transformer I have.
Now, the RS Labs certainly extracts more from the Denon in terms of detail, slam, soundstaging, dynamics and utter lack of nasties than the Rega, but the Rega has a Grado-type gestalt, and perhaps PRaT, which eludes almost everything else (excepting the SME V, which is the Denon's natural partner, strangely enough).
Anyway, I'm SO happy to have the Lenco/Rega together again, more experiments ahead!! Have fun all, and remember, the minute you change a single element in your system, all conclusions as to synergies goes out the window, it's a complicated old world. Which is why we all endlessly experiment, is it not? And thanks for the kind words Harry, keep enjoying your idlers!! Back to my Lenco/Rega/Denon, playing Kraftwerk SO liquidly/flowingly, ahhhh :-) |
Here's an idler assembly question. There are these little washers that slip onto the bar that holds the idler wheel. My first question is, are there supposed to be two of them, one on the inside and one on the outside? I have two assemblies and I've jumbled things up a bit, so I forget the way it was originally set up. Also, one of these washers snapped in half. Does anyone know what they're made of? Size? Where they can be purchased? Right now I only have one placed on the inside and I think iI'm getting a vibration that seems to have robbed me of some of the magic.
Thanks,
Glenn |
I think we brushed over this question previously.I refer to the bearings in the Lenco spindle bearing.I think that actually they are designed to have a slight play in them if we can credit the Swiss designers with having thought this issue out.I believe that some form of grease was used as the original lubricant and for damping of vibration purposes as well.If a bearing is too tight as say in the Rega table,as many have discovered,it has a lot of disavantages when lubricant is lost.The speed becomes too fast(dry bearing effect)and all damping properties are lost.With the Lenco they knew they were using an oil retaining metal compound and also applying grease.There had to be some way to retain the needed lubricant rather than forcing it right out of the bearing well which would happen in practice.Therefore the give in the Lenco is intented to be there and it is an error to use bushings that are too snug as proper damping and lubrication and speed stability will be lost.Not to mention the wear coming from running on an overly "dry" bushing. |
Hi Glenn, there are indeed two little teflon washers, one on either side of the wheel. These silence the scrapings of the wheel, and should be greased on both sides for best performance. Good luck finding one, can't remember if this was addressed over the years. |
Glen, I misread your question the other day. I bought some teflon washers that are approximately the same size (ID) from McMaster Carr. I havent had a chance to test them though. Its definately worth a try.
Mike |
A new white one is born. It sounds wonderful with the Mayware arm and Grace F-9 cartridge. What a difference VTA makes with this one! That's been a lot of fun to learn and play with. PicBig picIt is an untweaked L75 that just sits loosely on stilts (screws) on top of a super heavy "sand stone" plinth with some white paint splashed on. Now I have some fiddling to do with my plastic Technics 3210 + Adcom cartridge to see if it can catch up :) |
Hi Ronnie, reminds me of my first Lenco of all, sitting on stilts with just the Rega bolted in the tonearm-hole. Minus the big white brick of course ;-).
Up here I've just finished another Giant Lenco, the Burgundy Bomb, and listening to it with the RS-A1/Denon DL-103"E" I am once again amazed: it's hard to believe ALL Lencos can sound this good, and so before playing a new one I always expect it to be a disappointment, and am always delighted to be proved wrong!!
The instantly-recognized Lenco sound can be summed up in two words: "Unstoppable" and "Liquid". There is an inevitable POWER to the sound of the Lenco, a sort of juggernaut-type unstoppable sound - which is speed stability SO potent it is actually audible - allied to an utterly fluid and ultra-finely-grained smoothness which is purely liquid. As often written, like the aural equivalent of the Amazon in full flood: Unstoppable, and liquid. Add in ultra-accurate and razor-sharp transients, unbelievable amounts of detail, unmatched gestalt, ultra-deep and limitless and TIGHT bass, limitless dynamics, a soundstage as wide and deep as the Pacific, and you have the case of the Mighty Lenco: the turntable which is SO unbelievably good that even after three years of total conversions - and gaining in frequency, and replacing pricier and pricier belt-drives and yes, DDs - witnesses to the Lenco/Idler Phenomenon cannot believe it is for real.
In fact, I've thought about this often: if the Lenco were not quite as good as it is, acceptance of its Greatness would actually likely be more advanced than it is today. But so incredibly, unbelievably good is the Lenco (and so proving the case of the Idler-Wheel Potency), that this leads to strong (but accurate) language which leads onlookers to dismiss it as wishful thinking. Right now Eurythmics "Touch" is playing, and NEVER have I heard it hit with such transient alacrity/agility/speed/slam, backed up by POWER and PRaT which makes one get up and dance, and shiver and shake uncontrollably...yes: the Kundalini Effect!!!! Dismiss as hyperbole you watchers out there, and deny yourselves what it is you all claim to be seeking.
Cheap to buy a Lenco, simply sit it up on stalks like Ronnie or on bricks like Palmnell long ago, and find out just where your pricey overengineered (and underperforming, as you would find out) belt-drive rates!!! I just received an e-mail from a group of fellows who, reading the 6moons preview, set up a Lenco - unmodded, untweaked, unrestored - and were utterly blown away when they set it up against a pricey belt-drive, which shall remain unnamed for now.
Why is the Lenco so good? There is a logical reason: speed stability. That's it. It demonstrates just how bad belt-drives are, and just how audible the complex circuitry in DDs are. Of the three systems, the idler - which was built and developed specifically to combat Stylus Force Drag (the braking action of the stylus in the groove) - is the superior one. Decades of development of what was a good idea to begin with (as opposed to belt-drive, which was a bad idea to begin with), which is today continuing with the ongoing Idler Revolution!!
The Lenco especially relies to a large extent on pure physical fluid momentum to achieve its particular form of speed stability: the flywheel platter (much more of a flywheel than any other idler ever made), coupled delicately to its vertical (and very thin and accurate) wheel which does not pull or push the platter to either side, leaving the platter to spin like a top with an inexhaustible source of energy, the 1800-rpm cogless motor. Platter-motor, motor-platter, a closed system which, once again, utterly ignores the existence of stylus force drag, and at the same time provides an extremely sophisticated and unstoppable 33 1/3 RPM.
Speed stability figures for belt-drives are evidently averaged out, as are those of DDs as comparison to Lencos makes ultra-evident. Where the Lencos and other large idlers score is down down down to the micro level. Current speed stability figures are like using rulers in which the smallest graduations are centimeters to measure millimeters. The incredible musical prowess of the Lencos demonstrates that the human ear is MORE sensitive to speed instabilities at the micro/(millimeter)-level where idlers rule than at the macro level where, perhaps (think loaded dice and the three types of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics), high-mass belt-drives achieve better figures, when averaged out. Where's my proof you ask? My proof is this: listen to a Lenco, and Dare to Compare.
While Lencos sitting on bricks and perched on stilts sound great, what mass brings to the party is this: greater extension at both frequency extremes, more silence, more detail, more dynamics and slam, and the reason for all this is partly increased speed stability. Yes, being nailed to a very large plinth prevents the Lenco from moving however minutely, and concentrates all the Lenco energies on its amazing Mill: the closed-system platter-motor motor-platter, with the vertical wheel delicately and unintrusively acting as Liaison.
All these things will be proven with time, the Great Audio Ladder is being climbed, the Audio Gods are with us!! In the meantime, enjoy your Lencos and other idlers all!! |
The Burgandy Bomb-- Ohh La-La!!! |
I'm back to discuss the RS Labs RS-A1/Denon DL-103"E" combo: it is superb, and could easily be that mythical thing, the Final Analogue Set-Up! I've just discovered the key to this combo - so it performs as well in the bass as it does everywhere else, which is to say fully and perfectly - is solidity. Either it should be mounted on a thick and solid tonearm-board (I made an extra-thick one of walnut bonded to birch-ply), or directly to the plinth (the RS-A1 directly on the plinth the Lenco is set-up on provides perfect VTA).
As I've written before, in musical terms - i.e. SLAM, PRaT, gestalt, naturalness and tonal "unexaggeratedness" - the "humble Denon DL-103 is the King of MCs. But mount it on a tonearm which truly realizes its potential - and so far in my experience this means either the SME V (pricey) or the RS-A1 (at the price an incredible bargoon, given it ranks as one of the Best Tonearms in the World at $1350 full retail) - and it becomes a prime detail-meister as well, especially if it has the elliptical tip (80 euros for the re-tip from phonophono in Berlin).
I cannot get over just how incredible this match - Giant Direct Coupled Glass-Reinforced Lenco, RS-A1, Denon DL-103"E" (regular 103 with elliptical tip) - is!! It has as much musical magic as I've ever heard from anything, dynamics to blow the furniture out of the room, it has the detail of $5K tonearms allied to state of the art MCs, AND it's dead quiet and picks up none of the Mighty Motor's electrical field, even when the cartridge rides directly over the motor (and the arms wires are totally exposed, and there's no ground wire for the tonearm, perhaps that's why?)!! AND it's dead quiet in the groove!!! As to PRaT, I've never heard its equal, and the bass detail is better than I've heard from the Denon (and pretty well anything else) except when its mounted on the SME V.
The Lenco, which may well rank with the Best in the World (or better ;-)) when properly optimized, is an incredible bargain. The RS Labs RS-A1, which ranks with the Best in the World (when matched to the Denon especially) is an incredible bargain. The Denon DL-103, when one concentrates on the music instead of the information (and even on the information...when mounted on the RS-A1), is King of MCs, musically-speaking (and in many important audiophile areas as well, such as imaging and balance). Put them all together, and you have a combo which for many will be their Last of All Time. The strengths of MMs (gestalt, PRaT, warmth) allied to the strengths of MCs (speed, detail), and pumped up to the MAX via the Giant Lenco, yikes!!
Enjoy your Lencos and other idlers all!! |
What auditory delights I'm blessed with! Sometimes I just feel so grateful for having such amazing sound quality to listen to...yeah, my system hasn't cost a fortune, but after listening to £50k+ system a couple of weeks ago, I don't see how anyone can justify spending an extra £49,300 for a system that didnt sound a vast amount better than mine! The RB300 arm is growing on me more and more, have put TWL's fishing weight mod on (anyone want to buy a Decca International arm??? I'm sticking with my Rega!). Got an Empire EDR9 cart on it at the moment...thanks to Gilbodavid who suggested it on Raul's recommendation. What an amazing match for the Rega arm and the Lenco. Wham...an incredible flexibility...presence and slam as well as the capacity for infinite softness and depth of timbre. And the carts only had about 30 hrs run in so far.
Only thing at the moment I'd like to improve on at the moment is my speakers. My problem is having heard Quads, i want that sound, or as close to it as I can get. My room is only 6x10 feet, so Quads arent really feasible. Am using a combination of some prototype Tannoys and Spendor BC1's at the moment...anyone got any suggestions for how to get a Quad sound in a smaller and ideally cheaper speaker? |
Helen,
You could consider doing a smaller open baffle design with a subwoofer for bass. Somewhat smiliar to Quads, but a lot more efficient. Fostex makes great drivers or you could go vintage. There are a lot more commercial OB's than ever before and you can easily go DIY for super cheap. |
Hi Helen, congratulations on discovering the Glories of the Lenco/Rega, and of course of a great MM, by all accounts. The MM vs MC debate is not over yet :-)!! Good and cheaper substitutes for the Quads are speakers with various alternative tweeters, such as ribbons (of course), and the Heil Air Motion Tranformers, such as those in my ESS AMT4s. While I think it would be very hard to find ESS speakes in Europe, there are current speakers using these elements, including of course Heil speakers, and Elac (speaking of idlers!!). Infinity built and marketed several ribbon-tweeter speakers in Europe and there are other sources too. Of course, these are all hybrids (ribbon/AMT tweeters, cone bass drivers), but they do catch a large chunk of the planar magic (my ESS are still unsurpassed in the mid/highs, and I'm in fact looking forward to setting them up again).
As to the Lenco/Rega, after years of this thread and reported experiments and comparisons, it's not so much that the Lenco/Rega is in particular a synergy, but that indeed the better the tonearms mounted to the Lenco, the greater the results, period. This is, of course, mostly in terms of information-retrieval. The Decca is still perhaps the most PRaT-ful tonearm ever made, thought the RS Labs might give it a good run for its money. The Dynavector 507 MKII (very pricey), is also incredibly musical. The SME V/Denon DL-103 combo is EXPLOSIVE, and has supernatural PRaT, and incredible detail too. ALL tonearms so far tested have sounded incredible on the Lenco....provided, of course, the proper synergy is found. Some cartridges favour certain tonearms, and preamps and phono stages too. Even transformers and active head amps extract different things from different combos: a 'table/tonearm/cartridge combo which works in one set-up may not in the next (and vice-versa), as there are preamp and phono stage electrical issues to consider as well. And even then we're not out of the woods, as a change of speakers can change what one had previously concluded and thought settled. A great 'table/tonearm/cartridge/phono stage set-up, as I discovered when I tried the RS Labs/Denon via my FR transformer - which did not sound as good as my active step-up via every other speaker I had - sounded better with it via my Klipsch Heresies! Remember to make no ultimate judgments all, excepting of course, the Mighty Lenco and other idler wheels, which underpin all said set-ups, and reliably outperform, well, everything thrown at them so far, in every system!! I LOVE that reliability/dependability :-)!!
On the exciting news front, I just booked my ticket to Greece, and am working on a prototype of the Lenco/plinth I'll be sending to Cyprus, assuming I get that far. I'll take the steps, and hope for the best!! Of course, I'll be sending my usual Russian birch-ply/MDF recipe, continuing the Great Traditions of Accumulating Evidence and Putting my Money Where my Mouth Is. Let's put it on the line.
Let's consider what this recipe has accomplished, when applied to a Garrard 301/Dynavector 507 MKII/Denon DL-103 in a very high-end system, pitted against both a Platine Verdier/Koetsu Urushi and a Cain & Cain low-mass, two-tier plinth: "Well, got the stock i/c on the Dyna, and not all tweaked yet, and nothing sitting on stand, without isolation, and it betters the Verdier/Koetu Urishi on a special Isolation stand...I am candidly surprised. I did not expect this. I had the the Cain and Cain plinth and it did not sound good. This is way above. The 301 is incredible in your plinth. It has only the inexpensive Denon 103 R and that is not redone yet...and only a stock cable and it is better by a long ways than the Verdier on a special isolation table. Next I will try the Koetsu in the arm....and in my best phono stage and see. Damn...don’t let this get out, or it will ruin the high end." I'll post a photo under my system of the Garrard sitting next to the Platine. So there you see why I am so confident of this recipe, which has also, let us be reminded all, the fabulous EMTs, which make the rabid anti-Lenco Garrard-ers quake in their boots and drool. For reference, the Cain & Cain did not sound good in that system, compared to the Platine Verdier. This changed, however, when the Garrard had been properly restored, and built into a high-mass Russian birch-ply/MDF plinth, with no tricky separate tonearm pod. We'll know more once the Lenco sails to Cyprus (assuming it does, knock on wood).
Have fun with all your audio experiments all! |
Helen, If you don't mind using up about half your space, you COULD try Quad 57s in your small room. It would be like having the best, most transparent headphones ever made. |
Johnnantais,
I will be on a business trip the first part of May to UK then on to Cyprus around the May 5th-10th. I would like to meet up at srajans if possible. If that works then I have some friends of mine that I'd like to share the lenco magic with....best personal regards |
Hi Sixfigure, dammit that's the second meet-up I'll miss by a month or so, just got an e-mail this morning from an old friend who will be on one of my favourite Greek islands....exactly a month before I get there. I'll only be landing in Athens at the end of the first week of June, and don't expect to make it to Cyprus until the end of June/beginning of July. If you have reason to make it to that part of the world at that time, or at the end of July/beginning of August when I will be making a re-appearance there, then feel free to join us (of course, Srajan is the host and must be consulted).
But the Mediterranean or not, you owe it to yourself to hear a Mighty Lenco some way, somehow, just fire me an e-mail and I'll see if there's one in your part of the world. There's a regular battalion of Lenco owners forming up in the Washington D.C. area! Why? Hearing is believing, and some Giant Direct Coupled Lencos are there to hear :-). Also groups forming up in Colorado and Oregon and other scattered Lencos, and of course my own area where again, hearing is believing. Great to see you concentrating on the magic! |
So, Jean, the ticket to Greece has been bought! I'm betting you're going to work out this visit to Srajan Ebaen, become fast creative-rebel friends, and make idler wheel history. |
Thanks for the encouragement Bob, your enthusiasm is always much appreciated!!
Over here I enjoyed another bout of Crush the Belt-Drive, this time my own turntable in my own system! I've decided it was finally time to sell my Maplenoll, and so I carefully set it up for demonstration, and in setting it up in my system it sounded glorious. The Maplenoll rightly has an excellent sonic reputation (though criticized for build quality, I was the unofficial Maplenoll technician in my area and discovered secrets for flawless performance). For context, a fellow had recently contacted me, having discovered my participation in older Maplenoll threads on other forums, and contacted me. He wrote me to say he had a VPI TNT which was inferior to the Maplenoll in performance, and wondered if I had any tips to further the performance. In addition to being superb in terms of the usual audiophile obsessions - detail, frequency extension, imaging, and so forth - the reason the Maplenoll was my main source for so many years was its thunderous bass, amazing dynamics and incredible PRaT, being a true music-meister.
So, set up in my system it sounded glorious, so much so I worried, so I moved the same album over to the Lenco to settle the issue. WHAT a killing!! The bass which had been superb on the Maplenoll deepened and became much faster and more dynamic. Transparency - again superb on the Maplenoll - increased a hundredfold, details came out which were simply inaudible on the Maplenoll. Transient speed and dynamics macro- and micro- increased to an incredible degree. Even imaging, where the Maplenoll excels due to its linear-tracking tonearm, improved drastically via the Lenco (using the admittedly imaging-excellent RS-A1 tonearm)!
Finally, the musicality - gestalt, PRaT, entrancement - increased to a supernatural degree, to the point where I ended up once again in a multi-hour LP listening Mega-Session! I just hope none of those who may be considering the Maplenoll are reading this ;-)!
I've built myself a new Reference Lenco/Review Prototype for demonstration purposes, the Bauhaus Lenco, with single tonearm, that being the RS-A1 (with Denon DL-103"E"). The angular black-and-silver RS-A1 makes of the black-lacquered Lenco plinth with gray-recoated top-plate and platter a Bauhausian feast for the eyes (I like it anyway), simple, yet modern, a fortuitous accident! I'll include it under my "system". Have fun with your idlers all, WHAT music!! |
Hi all,
I just scored two gems: an ADC K-8 XLM Mk.2 cartridge, and an Ortofon VMS 20E Mk.2 cartridge, each for under $30 on Ebay. Does anyone have any experience with either of these two cartridges, preferably on a Lenco or similar rim drive turntable? |
Hi M16707, congratulations on your score! I've used both to great effect on Lencos, the ADC especially prefers the low-mass SME IIIs, on which it sounds incredibly musical, which would also be a good match for the Ortofon. The Ortofon would also sound good on a Black Widow, or a SME 3009 MKII with fixed headshell (low-mass too) and especially a Mayware low-mass unipivot (especialy if you can manage to re-wire it), and these would also sound great with the ADC! Can't wait to eventually get back to my vintage tonearms for some fun myself. Have fun! |
Wow, Jean, the trip to Cyprus is coming right up! Is everything working out? Do you expect to be able to get online and report back in near-real time on your adventures with Srajan or will we all have to wait until your global wanderings land you back in North America? |
Curiously the ADC K8 was primarily INTENDED by its maker, by then a subsidiary of turntable manufacturer BSR, for use in idler-drive tables...as it was standard equipment in quite a number of BSR record changers, many of them inexpensive at that! When matched up with a good turntable and arm, it could really strut its stuff. Last time I used one (it was a K8E elliptical) I found its secure tracking and smooth high end to be quite pleasant, though compared to my usual cartridge, the Decca Super Gold, I could detect a bit more "cantilever haze" than on most MM cartridges. Or maybe I THOUGHT I did; the ADC stylus design is not as rigidly constrained from moving longitudinally as are the Stanton and Shure styli with their restraint wire built into the stylus assembly. |
Hi Bob, so far, so good, it at least looks as if there is a very good chance of a review, knock on a few tons of lumber, or perhaps a forest ;-), this is complicated and pricey! I have to say the Giant Direct Coupled Glass-Reinforced Lenco with RS is one of the most amazing, musical, magical, detailed and exciting combos I've ever heard (I can't stop marveling anyway, with Denon DL-103"E" from phonophono), so that at least is a nice bit of synchronicity, considering the tonearm being provided for the review is indeed the RS-A1 (though I may include a more user-friendly tonearm for the review for more casual use).
Tomorrow I deliver the prototype of the design to the lacquerer's to find out how that works out, so we'll know soon. The top-plate and platter have already been recoated. I even have someone who will build me a shipping crate!
As to e-mails, we'll see. I like freedom in my travels, which comes before all, and which is why I travel ;-), but I'll chime in with any big news if it is appropriate to do so (or maybe I'll leave it as a big surprise when Srajan publishes the review), keep your eyes open, watch this space!
Veerrrryyy interesting bit of information there Gene, I love these tidbits of idle info :-)!
This weekend I hope to mount my JMW/Ortofon Jubilee combo on my Bauhaus Lenco and report back on it, a tonearm which, also rather incredibly given its size and apparent mass, sounded utterly amazing with the vintage, high-compliance AKG P8ES MM, a Classic. Keep your eyes peeled for vintage classics all, a lot of fun and satisfaction to be had there! |
Hi all, up here I've been having continuing Adventures in Idler-ing, of course, AND human nature, which is to say, the blindness of prejudice. But first, back to the roots. Recently I re-fixed up an Elac Miracord 40 MKII, a lovely Art Deco beauty with round buttons and a Magic Stacker ;-), built to the exacting - and simple and durable - Elac standards, which is why they are my favourite record changers).
I've often recommended it and I recommend it again: those who are sitting on the fence wondering if there is something after all to the whole Idler thing should find an Elac record changer (Listener magazine once ran an article on just such a restoration), or if a bit more ambitious, a Dual or Garrard SP-25 (MKIII or higher), which are more complex and less durable machines. When one is sitting with no large experience of record players hearing a Giant 80-pound Beast/Idler, then one can ascribe what one is hearing to all sorts of things (like, for instance, that a $30K belt-drive would be even better, and so both miss the point, AND make a likely erroneous assumption) and so remain unconvinced. But, if a confirmed Belt-Driver hears a little, humble Elac, Garrard SP-25, or Dual idler, properly restored, tweaked and tuned, THEN to what can one ascribe what one is hearing: something well beyond the abilities of a rather expensive and well-known belt-drive? One can't point to mass, or to some sort of Super Bearing, or any of a host of other possibilities.
In effect, one of these little spuds is exactly what prompted my own "religious" conversion to the Idler Faith, Brothers and Sisters. Had I first heard instead a Garrard 301 in a birch-ply plinth, would the conversion have been so total and absolute? I don't know. I likely would have gone idler (as already I valued PRaT and dynamics above all else), but I would also perhaps not have drawn the conclusion that the idler-wheel system was superior to the belt, at least not immediately. But, faced with a little itty-bitty Garrard SP25 MKIII (these have superb motors btw), which I had restored, and set against a background of highly-regarded belt-drives (Maplenoll, Audiomeca), I KNEW I was hearing something superior to both, and considering the engineering and build quality, the ONLY thing which could be responsible was the drive system. And the fellow who picked up the Elac today, and heard it for a few moments, had a similar reaction.
Which is a roundabout way to say, yet again, to those sitting on the fence seeking Musical Knowledge, dig up one of these old, cheap, common idlers, lovingly restore it, put a decent cartridge on it (give it a fair shake, today's Elac was mounted with an NOS Grado 8MZ, a VERY serious MM), and plug'er in and let'er rip. And prepare for Enlightenment.
Getting back into the Ultra-High-End, I just finished the restoration from junk of a butchered Lenco G88, which was not only spray-painted black with the irremovable paint from Hell (I finally had to have it bead-blasted), but also had a toasted speed control and on-off switch. The plastic trim cover was also spray-painted and, being plastic, couldn't be bead-blasted, so I had to fabricate a substitute from MDF, devise new switches, and have the extra pieces, along with the Lenco and platter proper, re-coated in cream polyurethane paint. The plinth, a two-armed affair for an OL Silver and a JMW Signature, is finished in blue lacquer, finished to a mirror finish (called "polishing the polish"), very expensive,m good thing I wasn't paying for it all! But nevertheless, a prototype for the Cypriot seafoam-green-and-cream Review Lenco, based on an L75. It'll be under my "system," and, of course, it sounds astounding (the recipient currently uses a Wilson Benesch Circle, which has caused him aural pain ever since he first heard the Lenco in the Wyetech Labs system). The fellow's system consists of top-of-the-line Wyetech electronics and Coincident Victory speakers. I thought I'd NEVER finish this project!! Tomorrow night I go over with the Lenco for a few hours of listening and, of course, a bout of Crush the Belt-Drive yippee!!!
Speaking of Crush the Belt-Drive (and Direct Drive), I still receive occasional e-mails from the erstwhile PLatine Verdier owner (and Cain & Cain 301 owner) that the Giant single-plinth Diect Coupled Garrard 301 blows him away, and the owner of the EMT signs himself The Lenco Man. Those looking for that Final Turntable are foolish to ignore the Mighty Idler, and time will prove me right (as it already is as I climb and conquer the Ladder of Belt-Drive - and Direct Drive - being).
In other news, my distributor of, among other things, high-end belt-drives, has just received his second Lenco (the first for his home, the second to help demonstrate his other wares). HERE's a fellow who can rise above his prejudices!: though he distributes high-end belt-drives, he is totally enthusiastic about the Lencos. Meanwhile, another fellow who came to audition the Maplenoll is precisely the opposite (and relatively destitute): upon entering my listening room, he saw the Lenco and said "Oh, an idler, it's OK if that's your thing". I didn't want to play the Lenco, as I knew he would come to the erroneous conclusion the Maplenoll sucked (instead of the correct one that the Lenco/Idler is Mighty).
A friend of mine was in the room, in fact the erstwhile owner of the Maplenoll, who was still wondering if the Lenco was really that much better (he had never compared them in an A/B, and the Maplenoll truly is an excellent belt-drive), and heard the Maplenoll and was impressed. Meanwhile, the fellow was going on about idlers rumbling and being only "for certain tastes", and seeing that he wasn't serious about the Maplenoll and it was a waste of time (the Hell with it), I turned on the Lenco, played the same record (some Art of Noise), and said "Here's your rumble". The background was silent, but more than that, the increase in bass, dynamics, detail, imaging, in fact everything everywhere, was shocking. My friend was sitting there in shock. As to the fellow, water off a duck's back, he was deaf to the whole thing, or decided the Maplenoll was crap, and walked out as if nothing had happened. Invincible prejudice/stupidity. This type of prejudice only ensures limitations: such a person will always miss the possibilities and wallow in mediocrity and mistaken assumptions. So be it.
Meanwhile, my friend, who was luke-warm before, is now clamoring for a Giant Direct Coupled Lenco, and is utterly converted. The moral of the story is: Prejudice leads to deafness in audio and aural unhappiness.
Enjoy your Idlers all, May the Wheel Be With You!! Time to get back to the shop and do my final run: the Cypriot Lenco. |
Hi,
I finally got my Lenco and I am salivating heavily on what happens next :)) I reread all the posts and all the forums and most of the ideas are set but I wanted to ask about the dimensions of the Giant Lenco plinth. I had decided to make it the classic 23X19X6 but it seems that later Lencos are even bigger-can you guys give me an idea of how big is actually enough, I am planning to go for the BB/MDF combination and may be later I will try an oak plinth or a mixture of woods just to have fun, woodworking is an addictive hobby. I had the unbelievable chance of getting a great offer from John Nilsen at Audioorigami.co.uk for a fully tweaked RB250-polished, adjusted and even with a small weight added to headshell to perfectly match my Denon 103, rewired and with three rear counterweights!!! I am stunned by the looks and he is known for great expertese so I really cannot wait to get it! Any advice on how to mount the arm and what I should take into consideration is greatly appreciated, I am new to vynil and everyhting is very helpful. Thanks to everyone on this forum, life is not the same since Lenco came into the light :) |
Hi Kravi4ka...
Welcome to the Brotherhood ! You know, the real answer to your question "How BIG is big enough ?" is answered with another question: "How much weight can YOU stand to live with ?".
I recently finished a Monster-Class plinth of BB/MDF, and with platter installed it weighs in at 87 lbs. In the beginning, I had mad dreams of 100+ lbs, but Jean cautioned me against building something that could cause personal injury in years to come (after all, this is a TT-for-Life !). The final result is now just managable, with the platter removed.
The panels began as 23" x 20", with a total weight of approximately 90 lbs. Many saw & router cuts later, the 11 layers (wood alone) weighed 74 lbs. With something that thick, you'll find it convenient to make removable armboards... which also opens the door to experimenting with various materials for mounting your RB250. I have maple boards right now, but "soon" will be making alternate boards from walnut & something that seems to be ebony.
You didn't mention which Lenco model you have. Depending on the geometry of top plate and platter, you may decide to cut the corner of the top plate, or rotate the unit 90 degrees, as seen in many of the recent Monsters Lencos here, and on other Lenco boards.
In any event, you'll need to think (and measure, measure, measure) to get your RB250 in the right position for "correct" VTA (and remember to account for the size of the Denon 103). One advantage of individual armboards is you get to make them in the appropriate thickness for proper VTA.
Good luck with your planning, and keep us informed on your progress.
Cheers...
Grant |
Hi Gjwaudio,
Thanks for the response, that's what I was looking for.I have actually two Lencos-L75 and an L78, the latter is in better shape but both are supposed to be totally rebuilt and I have already ordered the oilite bushings, the Joel kit from e-bay and a bunch of ceramic balls to try on the bearing. I will just rotate the base and I plan to glass reinforce it and seal the hole of the oroginal arm. There comes the difficult part-the arm bord. I see all kinds of shapes of boards on e-bay-rectangular, kidney shapes and round ones, I have several exotic woods to try such as sandalwood, padouk, panga panga, and of course oak and cherry. I will have to calculate how tall it should be and how to attach it to the plinth... But the VTA is the real problem, I still haven't found "Arm setting for Dummies" and if you can help me with a link or something it would be great. Thanks for the answer again, I intend to make the work as precise as possible with a lot of pictures that might help people like me. Best regards from Bulgaria! |
Hi Kravi4ka,
Does your modified Rega 250 have any added VTA adjustments or is it stock & static?
If your Rega is in the original fixed version with only washers for height adjustments, then you’ll probably want your armboard about 1/8” below flush of the top plinth layer. I say “probably”, because I have a mounted Rega 300 and I’m assuming that the pillar/tube height mounting geometry is the same on the 250.
With mine mounted flush to the plinth without washer, the tube is horizontal with a generic height AT mm cartridge. But I don’t think this is optimal, because someone once wrote here many moons ago, (think it was Willbewill) that a Rega engineer said that these arms are optimal with their butts dragging a bit. But many things can throw minute variances into the VTA formula – cart height, platter mat thickness, the number of bearing thrust shims, MuMetal treatment, etc. Then there’s the question whether you’ll use something to isolate the armboard from the plinth or not. Some use plastic washers, others use rubber grommets and still others directly mount.
But my advise would be to plan for VTA and armboards, but don’t sweat it too much. By making multiple armboards of various thickness and flavors of wood (this stuff is freebie scrap at most lumber yards) you’ll give yourself room to experiment. The only hardwood I’ve heard spoken about negatively for this application is oak. Linn armboards are plywood – probably nicely laminated – but plywood nevertheless.
Maybe Stefanl who has helped me out with Rega issues will weigh in here.
All best,
Mario |
Has anyone made a plinth with alternating layers of MDF and
Solid maple? Results? What difference is there with this and birch ply?
Thanks Tessera |
Congratulations on scoring some Lencos, a Rega tonearm AND a Denon DL-103 Kravi4ka, a KILLER set-up for little money, killer enough to slay high-end belt-drives up into the Stratosphere! The general rule of thumb for achieving correct VTA is that the headshell/cartridge should be parallel to the surface of the record. Something which hasn't been mentioned in a long time is the effect of the Lenco's superior speed stability on both VTA and the tracking abilities of various cartridges. I've found that lots of the reported brightnesses and hardenings caused by too-high VTA are due to the nasty belt-drive speed instability, mitigated and sometimes even eliminated by the Lenco and other large idler-wheel drives (one reason for their "rich", juicy sound): just check out the VTA on the early Lencos posted under my system. Though dramatic VTA discrepancy by audiophile standards, cartridges so set up in the Rega were not bright, and in fact I lived with vintage MMs, current MMs and high-end MCs for going on 12 years with no audible sonic penalties with the Rega set up in the original Lenco hole. Not only that, but cartridges previously known for poor tracking (usually MCs) tracked superbly when set up on the Lenco! A case in point, the Kiseki Blue Silverspot, notorious mistracker, which tracked like a Shure V15 in my rig for over a decade.
That said, if designing from scratch, then one should build the plinth so correct VTA and geometry can be dialed-in. Like Mario said, the Rega best achieves a "universal" correct VTA for most cartridges when it is flush-mounted to whatever surface the Lenco rests on. Again as Mario points out, if you lower the tonearm-board relative to the surface the Lenco rests on, you can raise the Rega with spacers or after-market VTA risers. For most tonearms - the majority of which are VTA adjustable - I lower the tonearm-board relative to the surface as much as 3/8". While you can compensate by raising VTA, if it is already too high, you're screwed. Good luck with your project!!
As to Mass, while Mass is Class, I find that the "magic" weight - at which point the Lenco not only improves but transforms upwards to a whole new Level of Being (perhaps the Best in the World, GASP!) - is reached at 70-80 pounds, after which it is just more improvements. I design in order to be practical: the magic weight is 80 pounds or so, more than this will be a problem both in the present and in the future, and is already a challenge.
Hi Tessera, the main aim of the plinth is to be sonically neutral, and, by means of mass, nail the Lenco to the ground so that the wheel only drives the platter, and the mass "sinks" all the noise/vibration. Baltic Birch (of the Russian/thin layer variety) is heavier than maple, so more mass concentrated in a smaller volume. Furthermore, it is made up of thin laminations, glued cross-grain to each other, and so further eliminates/controls vibration/noise. MDF is even heavier, and can be easily worked. Back at the beginning of the original thread when all I wanted was to get the Lenco/Idler ball rolling, I didn't take the materials SO seriously (though I did in my very first plinths, which were made of a variety of sound-deadening and sonically "superior" materials such as plaster and Corian etc.), and just encouraged all to follow their favourite recipes/theories.
In fact, I didn't believe materials impacted the Lenco greatly, that all it needed was weight/mass (and this is still largely true), and I believed a total mass of 40 was likely as good as it got, more not being necessary. This view changed when Dopogue asked me to build him a plinth which could accommodate two tonearms, and when I tested it out (at a total weight of just over 70 pounds) my jaw hit the floor. It was then I began to advise the Giant Lencos. Similarly the baltic-birch/MDF recipe: while I generally recommended this combination, it was because it was available, relatively cheap, and very heavy, and as written, the birch was laminated. I built several Lencos before I tried this recipe, even though I recommended it, but when I did, I certainly heard - as with the Giant Lenco - an improvement, in frequency extension, in weight, in PRaT, gestalt, flow and in dynamics. Not to mention neutrality. And from that day forth this is the recipe I adopted (mass/weight, neutrality, frequency extension, dynamics, PRaT).
Now maple sounds great, and I find walnut sounds even better, but these are both coloured. So, I follow the following philosophy: build the plinth so it is tonally and dynamically neutral (i.e. extract the best of both). Once you know the 'table/plinth is neutral, the Source, THEN you can experiment to your heart's content with tonearm boards, and know you're hearing the material combination of tonearm board/tonearm/cartridge, and not the plinth. This will also allow you to find the best material for a tonearm board (more experimentation ahead). Currently I favour maple and walnut for their excellent sonic characteristics, but I should probably at some point chase the ideal of sonic neutrality.
Now I can't say whether the MDF might not cancel out the maple's sound (slightly sweet, like the syrup), and it would be a great experiment, but it'll take quite a bit larger plinth to achieve the same weight, which is fine if all you're doing is carrying it from the garage to the living room :-).
At this end I am just about ready to have the Review Lenco lacquered so it can be shipped to Cyprus. I'm cheating: in order to give it an edge, I've made it closer to 100 pounds total weight, being slightly larger in all dimensions at 24 1/2" x 20 1/2" x 7". But, my own Mr. Red is also overweight and oversized, and I cannot hear any appreciable difference between it and the "regular/classic" size. Consider it insurance. It'll be a two-tonearm Lenco, finished in glossy "seafoam green" lacquer, which is to say '57 Chevy Green, with '57 Chevy cream Lenco. All it needs is a muffler :-)!!
Have fun all, and good luck in all your Idler Projects!! |
Hey Jean,
Just exactly what do you mean by:
"But, my own Mr. Red is also overweight and oversized, and I cannot hear any appreciable difference between it and the "regular/classic" size"?
I though the giant giant plinth Lenco's were supposed to be yet way better than the "regular/classic" size.
|
Hi Richard, this is in the context of the post I was responding to from Kravi4ka - "had decided to make it the classic 23X19X6" - which is the Classic Giant as has been a running theme for well over a year now, why is why Kravi4ka refers to it as "classic." It's further explained by my own: "As to Mass, while Mass is Class, I find that the "magic" weight - at which point the Lenco not only improves but transforms upwards to a whole new Level of Being (perhaps the Best in the World, GASP!) - is reached at 70-80 pounds, after which it is just more improvements. I design in order to be practical: the magic weight is 80 pounds or so, more than this will be a problem both in the present and in the future, and is already a challenge."
The Giant Lenco "classic" weight/size as Kravi4ka says, assuming Baltic birch/MDF, is indeed 23" x 19" x 6", which indeed, made my "my jaw hit the floor" exactly as claimed. More than this seems to have MUCH less effect than the transition from 40 pounds to 70-80 pounds. Less than this, considering the HUGE gains made when crossing this size/mass barrier, should only be considered if space constraints are truly insurmountable. Which is why I am shipping a Giant Lenco to Cyprus, though it profoundly affects the cost of the whole enterprise. Perhaps a doubling of the mass over this "magic point" is required to have a profound effect, but I don't think so, and anyway, it is highly impractical. Maybe I'll try it after Greece, but I don't know how I will get it onto the stand! |
Hi guys,
It really is a great forum, I feel like I have friends here! I got the answers for my worries, truth is that this is really helpful, I spent so much time on forums that I obviously missed the important details and you saved my life. I plan to make at least two plinths, and I think I will start with a one that is entirely made of BB, it's going to be a truly giant one-now I am thinking about 24X20X7, that's two sheets of Baltic Burch that I bought on Friday. That's just to try and later I will experiment with MDF and walnut and stuff,I just need to do something immediately :)) Make no mistake, it will be very well executed. I am expecting the arm early next week and I will give you update of how it works out. I am still looking for the step up transformers for the RIAA but I believe they will be either peerless 4722 or S&B TX103(if I find a used pair). Thanks so much for the replies, I really appreciate it. I have two other friends that just got their lencos and it's going to be a great time, I will keep you posted.Have a great weekend ! |
Hi guys,
Thanks for the maple/mdf reply jean. A friend of mine owns a small machine shop. I was wondering what would happen if
he bought for me a slab of solid aluminum and followed the
plinth diagrams to hollow out said plinth. Basically 21 by 19 or so and about 4 or 5 inches high. Has anyone considered or attempted this? I don't know about the cost but the aluminum can't cost more than two or three hundred.
Then, the machining coststo hollow it out and buff it etc.
I was thinking that since the high end tables are mostly
solid aluminum,maybe it's the next step up in killing vibrations.
Thanks, |
Does anybody know if there is anyone who builds metal idlers? I am looking for a couple. I have plastic ones with dryed rubber. Also, if anyone has an extra nose spring setting screw for sale, the adjusting screw which holds and adjusts for motor quietness at the end of the motor shaft.
Thanks, Tessera |
Hi Tessera, to answer your second question first, the best source of replacement parts including metal wheels ate the Lenco B55s and variants, which go cheaper as they have the cheaper pressed-metal platters and smaller main bearings. They have the superb Lenco motors and also the metal wheels.
As to aluminum, what it does is provide rigidity, which isn't the same thing as damping/killing vibration/noise. In a context of Direct Coupling (which can't be done with metal or stone), wood is very much more effective at this. Better to stick with maple and MDF or birch-ply. Though a slab/layer of metal somewhere in there would increase strength/rigidity, sonic improvement is not a forgone conclusion, more experiments at the end of the summer!
The Review Lenco is at the lacquerer's, hoping it'll be done in time for my flight!! Wish me luck all! |
Hi guys,
Thanks for the reply jean. You are right, wood should be the way to go.I've acquired a couple L 75's and the one I have cleaned up a bit (bearing,motor) and stripped of wood does sound better than my LP12 with Lingo supply I A/B'd with, using the same arm and cartridge (Rs a1 arm shelter 501). My L75 seems like an ancient one with a model # in the 2200 range and built in feb. 1968. It did not come with
the standard screw in each corner for affixing to the plinth. anyone encounter an early model like this? How did
you compensate for the shortcoming? Also, looking to sell
an Lp12 and a Lingo if anyone knows any Linnies out there.
Thanks |
About 2 weeks ago a huge box was delivered to my doorstep. It could have been a hot tub, full of water, considering the weight. But no, it was the super-Lenco! Burgandy Bomb!
Packed to withstand the most disgruntled UPS worker, I was astonished to find hard foam, cardboard, more cardboard, another box, more hard foam, big thick perfect fit boards of foam, more fitted boxes and cloth cover. It was like finding Tutankamun’s tomb and peeling the layers off. Underneath was a beautiful, shiny burgandy red hunk of lacquer-covered art. Above it sat a small LP box neatly protecting the workings of the Swiss made Lenco machinery. It was a marvel to see. I quickly got on the phone, called my friend, Ben, who is as strong as an elk, and anxiously waited for him lest I herniated a disc by going any further. While I waited I cleared ample space for the beast.
With care, we removed the last few layers, knowing very well that if there was any damage to this monstrosity, it would be our fault, considering the meticulous way in which it was placed and packed in the onion-like layers.
Ben and I were, and still are, astounded by the perfect symmetry and finish of the plinth and how the table plate sits in it. Every detail was attended to- holes for the arm(s) I plan to use, position of plate, color, finish, etc. I can see why there were delays, luckily, I was patient and in constant contact with the Masta Builder.
Of course, there was a tad of skepticism lurking within, having read about the sonic attributes of this vintage, old school, left behind, long forgotten folksy turntable. Especially when one considers how good some CDs do in fact sound. But with over 1200 LPs and a love for vinyl, and the fact that I have built 4 Lencos myself with very good results, I decided to take the plunge and order a Monster from the Masta himself- Jean N.
Setting up the MG-1 linear, air bearing arm was fun, since the holes and geometry were all set by Jean.
First LP was one of the most challenging to get good separation of instruments, bloom, and that PRaT thing- rhythm, pace, stomp your feet thing. Bruce Springsteen’s first Lp, The Wild… From the drop of the stylus (Denon 103R) I was surprised. Instantly I could hear clarity. This LP I consider a good test because the band consists of 5 or 6 musicians almost fighting to be heard. Usually sounds kind of jumbled as if thrown together. I was very pleased to hear and feel what the band was doing together. No longer did I concentrate to hear the organ, bass, guitars, now I could feel the bass and drums as a driving unit, Bruce leading the way and the sax laying down some texture.
My favorite Classical LP was next- The Budapest Quartet with Clarinet, playing Vulfies Eine Kleine Nachtmuzik.
Ahhh… The sweet, soaring clarinet sneaking up so quietly from behind the woody, melancholy violins and cello. I could hear the tone of the wood and feel the attack of the bow striking the strings with gentleness and verve. I could sense the emotion of the music, hear the musicians move in their chairs as they relaxed to breath. Man, those guys are... excellent! I thought I didn’t care for classical music. Shame on me.
Then, some good ole Rock (I know, Bruce) which normally sounds good. I just had to check some favorites. Buffalo Springfield just made me melt, the beginnings of country rock. Gram Parsons never sounded so good, letting Emmy Lou in on the fun. Los Lobos rocking it, just like they did at Garfield HS. Old vintage Hot Rock Stones were clean and fresh. Of course, Let It Bleed bled all over. Some Beatles. Then, John Lennon- like syrup at times, then raw and pissed, with a tight band driving the pulse!
Now that the fun started, it was time for Jazz. From Miles to Hugh Masakela to Bob Wills and The Texas Playboys (yes, Jazz) to Flora Purim, Joe Pass, Herb Ellis and too many to mention. Before I knew it, my LP clock said it was time for bed, but my brain said “how about some Ray Charles, Ry Cooder, A Clockwork Orange…” By the time I played Coltrane, Django and Beethoven, it was 6 am!
The “Kundalini effect”- if it means grooving with the beat, tapping and stomping, reaching for another album, feeling the hair on your neck go buzzzz and getting the goose bumps- was there. Otis and Aretha, Marvin, Smokey were all smoking.
Jean’s Super Lenco is a beautiful monstrosity. It has balls like a raging bull, and it can purr like a kitten. I will continue to enjoy the magic inside those little grooves.
Thanks Jean. Show those crazy audiophiles over in Greece what vinyl is all about. Then come back and share some more. |
Hi Tessera,
I, as Lenco Lovers' admin saw that you registered over there. According to the series number, you are probably the owner of one of the oldest known L75. Another member has #005790(but there is a date on the motor: 20 oct 1967) and I have #006687 (date on the motor: 03 oct 1967). I think it would be of great interest, for all of us, if you would post on Lenco Lovers some pictures of your, as we call them, "Lencosaurus". It seems that a the very first days of the L75, features were not "stabilized" and each released piece was quite unique. Mine has a tonearm without the decoupled back stud and the other Lencosaurus has no rubber V-Blocks: all one plastic piece....
Hope to read some interesting things from you!
François. |
Hi Michael, thanks for the encouragement, and for the excellent, detailed and informative review!!
For particulars on the Review Lenco I'll be sending to Cyprus to further the Lenco - and Idler - Name, it will be a two-tonearm Lenco, as asking a novice to use an RS-A1 regularly and exclusively is just plain cruel (though NOT sonically) :-). The RS will sit in the back left corner, and the second tonearm - still to be determined - will sit on the front right.
As written, it'll be finished in '57 Chevy colours, to emphasize the roll-your-own freedom and fun aspects which have always been central to this and the original threads. I'll be rebuilding a used older Swiss Lenco L75, no NOS parts, so everyone will know the astounding quality of these old machines, again as already developed since the early days of the original Home Despot thread: this beast will be a proper and fitting Ambassador of these threads, and I thank all those who have contributed to its success - and the consequent bringing to light of the mightiness of the Mighty Lenco - over the years, and those who have offered encouragement. This'll be a review of the Child of Da Thread(s)!! Which means: Giant Direct Coupled Glass-Reinforced birch-ply/MDF Lenco L75, with all original parts.
I'm working today on rebuilding the motor and associated hardware while the plinth sits at the lacquerer's, and hope to have it all together, tested and ready to pack by early next week. Then it begins its sea voyage to the Eastern Mediterranean where, lucky me, I will meet it for a musical love-fest in Srajan Ebaen's various soundrooms!!
Anyway, back to work, have fun with your Lencos and various idlers all!! Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler Wheel!! |
Hi Francois,
The serial # on my L75 Lencosaurus is 002734 with a date of
Feb 18,1968 as date of manufacture. I can't post pics as I don't have a digital camera, also, mu computer is a pentium
II running windows 98 and I doubt I could upload pictures. I can say that I played my lenco nude on a couple of bricks and it did best my LP12 Lingo Rs a1 arm shelter 501. That is, with the arm and cartridge hopping between set-ups.It was unfair really, because the Linn has a dedicated stand and is levelled, the Lenco was plopped on a dresser beside it. Now,that was a few days ago,I have cut out five sheets
of the Baltic birch at 3/4 inches thickness since then, and stacked them. I dropped the Lenco innards on the makeshift plinth and spun some vinyl. Now we're talking. Bare and on
bricks it was better than the Linn, now onstacked sheets, it gains real body and depth while retaining everything that made it better in the first place. There is a sense of real flow now, liquid. And best of all the base has solidified and become quite more extended. On the Linn it was fat,lazy and hazy sounding in comparison. I can't wait till I cut out the MDF sheets, along with all the gluing and screwing and bolting, and then sitting down.
Regarding the original tonearm, it was not in the greatest of shape, so I stripped it. If you guys want the parts, you're welcome to them,(SASE)I can check for details if anyone is interested.I have aa few L75's now, and truth be told, I don,t care about the arms as I have the Rs a1 arm. They are the original arms. The Lenco does have the mounts for the four bolts, just that the bolts were missing on mine. All thigs considered, it was in really good condition when I aqcuired it. Rest of my set up;a highly modified Grant pre which replaced an MFA Magus, driving highly modified Bruno Kruegger Monoblocks (210 Glowing watts per)
replacing MFA D75 amp, driving Sonus Faber Cremonas. All mods done by Mr. Israel Blume of Coincident Speaker. All cabling is Coincident, after trial and error. For the money you can't touch his cables. Also, for the last couple of years I have been demo-ing a lot of higher end speakers to replace the Cremonas. Vandersteen 5, Hanson The KING,Stradivarius,Utopia,the big Macs,Colncident and lots of others. The Strads stood out,but I cant afford them.They
grab a hold of you and don't let go. But the Coincidents did so too, at less than a third of the price. They had a tighter, punchier base and were more open sounding, the strads were a little on the dark side but still very much open. I am leaning towards Coincidents as my next speakers for the sound as well the ease of driving them. There is something that seems effortless to me with higher sensitivity and impedance type speakers.
Well that's a lot for now, Cheers |
Hi,
I feel kind of bad for asking these questions here and not contributing much but I do hope to share my experience later... I came to the point that I have the Birch Plywood, it's 12 sheets of 0.75 inches and 20x19 size( 18 mm thick and 60X50 cm) . I need some advice-I can go for a Birch Plywood plinth only and for the MDF/Bply -I know Jean's advice is for the CLDamping and mixing both but man, do I hate MDF... Anyway, if someone has experience with an all birch plinth please advise. The other thing is a little more serious (at least for me). I know that if I mount the rega arm on the plinth the VTA will be off. I was thinking that I can cut the top layer of BB a few mm wider than the size of the armboard and make the board thinner so it sits below the surface of the plinth and thus adjust the VTA. But how thin should I make the board to achieve that? My cartridge is Denon 103 and I am not sure which dimensions I have to measure to calculate the right position too... I have seen people including Jean use this method to correct the VTA but I don't even know what size to make the armboard-is there a standart booad size for Rega arms or should I just experiment? My plan is to make several boards from different woods but first I need at least some guidance about the size of the board. Assuming that the top sheet of plywood is 18mm how thick should I make the board guys? Or to put it that way-how many mm lower should the rega arm be seated as compared to the top plywood sheet? I hope you understand my question... Thanks in advance, this is the last thing I need to make clear before I start with the router :))
Tessera, I am really interested in your experience with the RS-A1-this is the my dream arm and I would really appreciate a few more words on how you find it soundwise and setup wise, does it match weel with the Shelter? Please share... |
Hi Kravi4ka,
The RS A1 arm, to my mind is a contender for the ultimate if not outright THE ultimate arm.Every other arm made has a fixed cartridge position,where the cartridge is solidly
screwed on to the arm. If you think of all the valleys and peaks and ridges that a cartridge traverses as the record spins,it's quite the resistive ride. No matter what comes along the needle faces it head strong. There is no other
choice. Whereas with the RS A1 the cartridge just sails
through with no resistance because of the pivoting action of the cartridge. It bends and bobs and weaves through the groove. I believe that because there is less resistance, the
needle sits lower in the groove. I auditioned this arm against SME V, various Origins,variations of the RB 300, on
the same tables. Every time there was no contest. It just flows, with no resistance,whereas other arms give a sense
of something dragging things down, or scrapping against a side of the groove. I owned an RB300 before upgrading,which I had a rewire done to and the counterweight change as well.
With each upgrade the Rega responded very positively,rivaling the highly regarded megabucks arms. It had kick ass base in the upgraded mode as well. But it is not in the same league with the RS A1. In comparison, this arm is smooooooth,liiiiquid,and extremely musical. When you have everything dialed right,especially if you get the spindle to distance and the angle to it; it's strictly goosebumps teritory. It really is that good. At the dealers,
he would demo by playing it on a Rega P3, and an SME V on an $8000 deck. The Rs a1 sounded better. Not base slam better,but better nonetheless. You prefer the presentation
of the rs a1. Now, it is not for everyone. It is a two piece affair,and held together by tiny output leads of the cartridge. Care must ALWAYS be exercised when cuing the arm, or else things can get set in motion quickly with the counterweight bobing around at the back. Also the Phono cable can, if not properly attended to,pull the arm of the turntable. You just have to be extra cautious with this one, thats all. I have heard this arm with all the Shelters, and it's a great synergy. And, with others as well,as long as the holes are not threaded. I personally, cannot accept any other arm, but that's me. JNantais has one as well and I believe he is happy with it. Another thing, where else can you just plonk down an arm on any table and play and compare it to what's installed on said table?
There is one comlaint though. If they couldjust supply the arm with an interconnect harness long enough to godirectly to the Phono input instead of it terminating at the base of the arm, then it would be heaven. Because their wire is so fine and pure,it's incredible. Apparently, it cannot be sourced anywhere.
Thanks Tessera |
Tessera,
Thanks for your input regarding the RS A1. Ever since Jean raved about it, I have been hoping to pick one up (used). But from what you've written, it is so fragile it might be best to buy new lest it's damaged. Have you tried it with the Denon 103?
Where would you recommend purchasing one of these Praying Mantises?
Gracias! |
Hi Oregon,
I don't know where you live but if you go to SAKURA SYSTEMS on the net, they will take care of you. They are the N. American distributors as well as for 47 Labs. Also, if you live in N. America, they will deal with you directly. I have not tried it with a Denon 103 but JNantais loves that combo. AS for my arm,the other day I started bragging about how wonderful it is on this forum and ....I snapped the tonearm cable lowering VTA as I kept trying out different makeshift armboards on my makeshift/halfbuilt plinth. Ah guess ah jinxed me.
On another note, does anyone know where to find Rubber Renew and Cameo in Canada?
Thanks Tessera |
Tessera,
I'm sorry to hear about the cable. Will it be necessary to send it to Sakura for repair? Let us know what happens-
can you fixit?
Can someone locally (in your area) fix it?
Must you send it to Sakura, is there a fee and how much?
It is important to know how the company treats its customers.
Thanks and good luck! |
Tessera...
I got my Cameo at Home Hardware (Markham, Ontario area). Find 'em in the phone book and call ahead to make sure it's in stock... not every location had it on the day I went looking.
Happy polishing !
Grant |
Hi Oregon,
Thanks for the condolences. I emailed Sakura Systems with my
problem with the broken arm wire. Yoshi the importer responded like lightning and advised that a new harness is
US 25 plus shipping. I should be able to do the replacement
myself. According to the instructions he wrote, I should be able to fit the tiny wires and solder them to their respective positions. A little dexterity is required and
CARE not damage the new harness as you install it back.
To me, the price seems very reasonable, seeing as this wire is impossible to find. I am ordering two, one for back up.
Also,I think not having to ship the arm is a bonus. I have gone back and forth with emails with Yoshi the last few days, and so far my impression is that he is a proffesional and gentleman.
Thanks Grant I'll check out Home Hardware for the CAMEO. |
Tessera,
Good to hear. I would not trust MY soldering skills with the fine wires.
Keep us posted and good luck.
Oregon |
