Jean and all,
Remember- FDLFUBD!!!!!!!!!!
friends don't let friends us belt drives.
Have a merry-merry Christmas! |
That's it!!!
Angels are pulling our legs! |
WOOO! Peter has upped the ante! Better get our garages cleaned out for some serious work this winter. |
About my Lenco: As I proceeded to post the info requested, the thread was gone. Looks like Jlin saved the day. Many thanks!
Per Kim’s request, I will describe my Lenco 75.
After several emails to the lenco Masta, and to a few of his disciples, I set out to find a specimen which would meet the proper criteria for achieving what has been described as excellent, ass-kicking, (or better yet, multithousand-dollar-costing beltdrive, ass-whooping), turntable. I was skeptical, but my desire is to reach sonic nirvana. Therefore, I took a chance.
Within a few weeks, I had a Lenco in my hands and on the card table. Camera at my side, I disassembled and made notes. Quite simple in design, it is the fine machinery and solidly built motor that most impressed me- just as the Masta had promised.
First I cut out the upper right corner, easily done with a metal cutting blade on the hand held jig saw. I placed masking tape on top and underneath the metal base and drew my cutting lines. It was easy. Lightly filed the edges. Piece of cake.
Masked the chrome plate, lightly sanded the grey base and found my son’s can of gold spray paint. Maybe I’ll call her Goldy?
Found a good buy on a Rega 300 arm and a Denon 103.
Searched for a template on the web. Found it easier to just make my cuts, leaving as much Baltic Birch plywood as possible to stay true to the Masta plan. Jig saw, hand drill and router and good light was all I needed. One trip to use a table saw to get clean straight sides after gluing 5 layers of ply and one sheet of drywall.
The table base fit well, the motor hanging proud and loose.
Oh yeah, I did adjust the motor with the set screw, after I cleaned and repacked with grease.
It all looked good, but I couldn’t just leave her with the chipped ply on her sides, so I looked for a solution. The tables on Lencoheaven.com were definitely a source of inspiration. To my surprise, I found someone near me with LOTS of exotic veneer. Beautiful patterns. I settled on “Goya” for the sides and Birdseye Maple for the top. I first glued the veneer to a flat thin board, sanded, varnished, sanded, varnished XXX, then cut to fit the sides of the plinth. I was warned by 4yanks, that veneer would likely be brittle and a problem in that it chips easily. He is right. At times all I had to do was look at it and it chipped. My nephew, who has a way with words, suggested I call her “Chippy.” That was after I referred to his house, which is being remodeled, as the “Golden Arches.” But he hits below the belt. I am almost over it. I must remind myself that he has 3 young children, and I don’t want to raise them. His life is spared.
Anyway, barely able to see through my tears, I managed to cut out a few armboards out of oak. Setting up an arm and cart was new to me. Advise was sought from the disciples. All along I was encouraged to do everything myself. This proved to be good advise.
The table measures 18X16.5X4 inches. It is incredibly quiet between tracks and sweet when it supposed to purr. But she growls and roars when called upon. Sends me and my audiophile buds tapping our feet, bobbing and weeving when the bass and drums lock it in. Vocals sound like real people, with feelings. Right now, Otis Redding is telling me to try a little tenderness. I got to remember that.
For more info about my system, you know where to look.
The rebuilt took about 2 months. I like to go slow, and methodically. It is fun, economical, enlightening, a sonic jewel, and, bragging rights are priceless. My only regret, and needless to say, TREMENDOUS guilt, is that friends should not let friends drive their tables with belts. I am guilty. Some of my friends have Basis with Graham arms, Nottingham Spacedecks, Regas, VPIs… oh! The shame I feel in the morning after a listening session at their houses! Only to come home to my listening room, turn on my preamp, amps, turn the switch that sets that well balanced, 9 pounds of gentle fury spinning, lay a favorite black vinyl disc, drop the stylus, and hear beautiful music. |
Billybuck,
Why don't you just buy another arm? There is usually one on ebay.
Might make life easier??? |
Kim,
Looks fantastic! How does it sound?
Could you please post details- how long to rebuild, list arm, cart, other components, type of music you prefer, etc.
Thanks, good work. |
Nigel,
At each corner of the table, underneath, there is a 4mm threaded nut/knob. The plinth should be screwed to these 4 threads from underneath. The trick is to get a straight hole up throught the layers of mdf and ply. Make sure you leave area (larger than the 4mm screw) so that the head of the screw is braced against the plinth. This depends on how long the screws are and how deeply they are threaded into the nut/knob. I would make these drills after you have glued all the layers together. I advise against only the first couple layers ( then covering those holes with subsequent layers) because you won't be able to get to these screws when you want to remove the plate from the plinth- I am 99.9% certain you will remove the plate for tweaking/adjusting.
Secondly, looking at the top plate from above, platter removed, there are several holes in the top plate. I am referring to the top plate under the platter with the platter removed (I repeat). Screw the top plate down onto the plinth. 3 or 4 screws are enough. The plate should be resting flat on the plinth, this being your first layer of ply routed to the correct depth.. You don't want it too high nor too low, otherwise, when you couple, or screw the plate down, you might bend, or warp the plate, causing the platter to rub against the sides of the plate.
Neoprene, which should be glued onto the plate, not the plinth, can be found on eBay. I used dynamat which is used to dampen car doors.
Of course, other folks may have done things differently, and hopefully they will share their ideas, but I hope you get the general idea.
Let us know how things proceed and email some photos. |
Please advise! A Lenco rebuild is in my near future. I will likely use an RB1000 tonearm and I need ideas as to which cart would be best for the ultimate in PRAT Nirvana, Kundalini, Kunta Kinte and Woogie Boogie.
I've been told that "the RB1000 has an effective mass of 10." Don't know if this is true, could be a belt-drive dirty dog conspirator. They lurk among us- beware. |
Mario,
Thanks for your response. I should have mentioned this: I currently use an RB300 with a Denon 103 on a rebuilt Lenco. It sounds great.
Any ideas as to which cart would be a GREAT match for an RB1000? Lenco lovers? |
Peter,
Can you refresh our memories and provide details as to what it is you are doing?
Thanks |
Ccryder,
Why not try disconnecting the ground from the motor plug, or better yet, switch it out to a 2 prong plug. It may be an easy fix, well worth a try.
Of all the Lencos I have, not one has 3 prongs.
Good Luck and keep us posted. |
|
Hey Lenco Maniacs!
Another belt-drive bites the dust. A local audiophile just packed up his Nottingham Spacedeck after hearing a POORLY set up L75. He could not believe his ears. He is in the planning stages for a proper plinth and I am happy to assist.
Thanks to everyone here for taking the time and making the effort to share their knowledge.
Viva the Lenco Brigade! |
Bolson,
Thanks for your impressions and historical perspective. I know of 2 fellow audiophools in my area who have dumped their expensive belt-drives. They simply cannot believe their ears when they hear a Lenco with a simple tonearm and decent, inexpensive cart.
It would be fun and interesting to hear from more who have come from the darkside!
Enjoy! |
News from my part of the world- The Great Northwest. The mighty Lenco has just demolished a Nottingham Spacedeck and will soon do the same to a Well Tempered.
A toast to Jean Nantais and his quest to bring us out of the 70, 80, 90 dark ages of the belt drive and into the Enlightened Age of retro idler wheel Lenco-ology.
Happy New Year Lenco lovers! |
Hi Lenco lovers!
Just completed my second L75 which will be presented to a friend this Friday. Please have a look in my "system".
Viva le Lenco |
Mario,
The sides are one piece of Maple. With a table saw, I simply cut a VERY shallow slit and placed some inlay. This is top secret, so don't tell anybody! The sky is the limit with the inlay. Plenty to choose from.
Jean,
A true compliment coming from the Master himself.
I will take you up "if he doesn't appreciate it..." I plan to post a photo of his ugly mug, his name and his address. We can all go over and ...
While we're at it, we'll relieve him of his fine album collection too! |
Goughary,
If you have not found a source for the rods/screws, send me the length you need and I will get you a set of 4. It might be wise to measure a bit short and use a counter sink so that the screw head has some purchase.
Hope your project is coming along. |
Mounted new RB300 w/ Denon 103R. Need advise, please.
Did some tweaking with new armboards. New armboard is approx. 2-3mm below top plate. ***Where is yours?
I played an LP
1. seems fast. Timed it and it is about 33rpms in 56 seconds. However, on this table (Lenco 75/S) the slowest adjustment is 33 and I cannot slow it down. Other table goes down to 16 allowing for adjustment.
2. in the middle of the LP, the stylus skipped, not advancing. I lifted and advanced, the stylus would not drop onto grooves. Could be my armboard is too high (thick)*** I placed another mat on top of the first and LP played all the way through. However, #1 and 3 still a problem.
3. Lots of sibilance, i.e. thick and smothered sounding "s" sounds. Could this be related to new Creek phono stage not broken in. Or cart adjustment?
Digital scale reads 1.6 g tracking force.
Not sure about VTA and cart alignment, just eyeballed.
Any ideas?
Thanks from Oreegunn |
Peter,
In one word- FABULOUS!!!
You have taken the Lenco to another planet, where green creatures roam in song.
Thanks to you and Jean for setting us vinyl lovers to seek out other, better worlds for our listening pleasure.
Oregon |
Gp49 (Gram Parsons?- I wish).
Great addition. Thanks for taking the time. |
Jean is THE MASTA!!! of Da Lenco!
Always willing to help, always positive, never rude or disrepectful.
From the moment I stumbled onto the old thread, Jean has been a true and complete gentleman. He has, in private emails, been generous to point out the contributions of others and refer me to them.
I hope that we continue to benefit from his hard work and talent.
To hear the Lenco, is to Love the Lenco! |
Well done Grant.
Thanks for sharing a familiar experience- surprise (at some guy ranting about a DIY $200 turntable. Entertainment and curiosity, went back to see more ranting, total skpticism, noticed some others in ranting mode, inquired about Nottinghams and Well Tempered tables only to hear that some were sold and replaced by the old Lenco??? Went back. Made contact with that crazy guy up north. Found him to be nothing but class and a real gentleman. Always willing to share with no strings.
Now, a true Lenco fanatic myself.
Thanks Jean! Keep on Truckin' |
The Burgandy Bomb-- Ohh La-La!!! |
About 2 weeks ago a huge box was delivered to my doorstep. It could have been a hot tub, full of water, considering the weight. But no, it was the super-Lenco! Burgandy Bomb!
Packed to withstand the most disgruntled UPS worker, I was astonished to find hard foam, cardboard, more cardboard, another box, more hard foam, big thick perfect fit boards of foam, more fitted boxes and cloth cover. It was like finding Tutankamun’s tomb and peeling the layers off. Underneath was a beautiful, shiny burgandy red hunk of lacquer-covered art. Above it sat a small LP box neatly protecting the workings of the Swiss made Lenco machinery. It was a marvel to see. I quickly got on the phone, called my friend, Ben, who is as strong as an elk, and anxiously waited for him lest I herniated a disc by going any further. While I waited I cleared ample space for the beast.
With care, we removed the last few layers, knowing very well that if there was any damage to this monstrosity, it would be our fault, considering the meticulous way in which it was placed and packed in the onion-like layers.
Ben and I were, and still are, astounded by the perfect symmetry and finish of the plinth and how the table plate sits in it. Every detail was attended to- holes for the arm(s) I plan to use, position of plate, color, finish, etc. I can see why there were delays, luckily, I was patient and in constant contact with the Masta Builder.
Of course, there was a tad of skepticism lurking within, having read about the sonic attributes of this vintage, old school, left behind, long forgotten folksy turntable. Especially when one considers how good some CDs do in fact sound. But with over 1200 LPs and a love for vinyl, and the fact that I have built 4 Lencos myself with very good results, I decided to take the plunge and order a Monster from the Masta himself- Jean N.
Setting up the MG-1 linear, air bearing arm was fun, since the holes and geometry were all set by Jean.
First LP was one of the most challenging to get good separation of instruments, bloom, and that PRaT thing- rhythm, pace, stomp your feet thing. Bruce Springsteen’s first Lp, The Wild… From the drop of the stylus (Denon 103R) I was surprised. Instantly I could hear clarity. This LP I consider a good test because the band consists of 5 or 6 musicians almost fighting to be heard. Usually sounds kind of jumbled as if thrown together. I was very pleased to hear and feel what the band was doing together. No longer did I concentrate to hear the organ, bass, guitars, now I could feel the bass and drums as a driving unit, Bruce leading the way and the sax laying down some texture.
My favorite Classical LP was next- The Budapest Quartet with Clarinet, playing Vulfies Eine Kleine Nachtmuzik.
Ahhh… The sweet, soaring clarinet sneaking up so quietly from behind the woody, melancholy violins and cello. I could hear the tone of the wood and feel the attack of the bow striking the strings with gentleness and verve. I could sense the emotion of the music, hear the musicians move in their chairs as they relaxed to breath. Man, those guys are... excellent! I thought I didn’t care for classical music. Shame on me.
Then, some good ole Rock (I know, Bruce) which normally sounds good. I just had to check some favorites. Buffalo Springfield just made me melt, the beginnings of country rock. Gram Parsons never sounded so good, letting Emmy Lou in on the fun. Los Lobos rocking it, just like they did at Garfield HS. Old vintage Hot Rock Stones were clean and fresh. Of course, Let It Bleed bled all over. Some Beatles. Then, John Lennon- like syrup at times, then raw and pissed, with a tight band driving the pulse!
Now that the fun started, it was time for Jazz. From Miles to Hugh Masakela to Bob Wills and The Texas Playboys (yes, Jazz) to Flora Purim, Joe Pass, Herb Ellis and too many to mention. Before I knew it, my LP clock said it was time for bed, but my brain said “how about some Ray Charles, Ry Cooder, A Clockwork Orange…” By the time I played Coltrane, Django and Beethoven, it was 6 am!
The “Kundalini effect”- if it means grooving with the beat, tapping and stomping, reaching for another album, feeling the hair on your neck go buzzzz and getting the goose bumps- was there. Otis and Aretha, Marvin, Smokey were all smoking.
Jean’s Super Lenco is a beautiful monstrosity. It has balls like a raging bull, and it can purr like a kitten. I will continue to enjoy the magic inside those little grooves.
Thanks Jean. Show those crazy audiophiles over in Greece what vinyl is all about. Then come back and share some more. |
Tessera,
Good to hear. I would not trust MY soldering skills with the fine wires.
Keep us posted and good luck.
Oregon |
Tessera,
Thanks for your input regarding the RS A1. Ever since Jean raved about it, I have been hoping to pick one up (used). But from what you've written, it is so fragile it might be best to buy new lest it's damaged. Have you tried it with the Denon 103?
Where would you recommend purchasing one of these Praying Mantises?
Gracias! |
Tessera,
I'm sorry to hear about the cable. Will it be necessary to send it to Sakura for repair? Let us know what happens-
can you fixit?
Can someone locally (in your area) fix it?
Must you send it to Sakura, is there a fee and how much?
It is important to know how the company treats its customers.
Thanks and good luck! |
Jean,
Thanks for your input.
Anyone have a 17D III they are selling??? |
Good news Tessera. Let us know if the RS arm is improved with the direct soldering.
Hope to see some photos of your Lenco/Plinth.
Oregon |
Thanks Gilbodavid. My sentiments entirely.
Jean has enhanced our audio experience in numerous ways.
(Seems it's the same folks posting negative, non-productive comments which would be more appropriate in a gossip column.) |
To the unbelievers!
The Lenco is indeed a FANTABULOUS machine!!!
As to Jean's great efforts to prove the Lencos attributes- dead on stability, clean, quiet and and vibrant dynamics- attributes which allow the cartridge to ride in the groove with such incredible accuracy, my LPs bring chills both mellow and exciting- ignore the fools who don't want to believe, the ones who will only listen to some high paid reviewer, right or wrong, and allow them to form their opinions for them. (Remember, it means more Lencos for us).
Thanks Jean. Sorry about the customs frustration. I've had items sit in Italy and Korea for weeks. I understand.
|
Mario,
Thanks for posting your project photos. The Peter Plate looks great in red and your design is an inspiration.
Please keep us posted.
I know what I'll be doing this Winter!!! |
Lew,
It seems what you wait for is not far in the future.
A friend of mine is an audio reviewer/writer. He tells me that Teres, maker of high end belt drives, plans to dump the belt drive line (except for there most expensive one) and go with rim drive, vintage design. Seems they have come to realize what Jean and many others have- belt drive is not the answer to stablity!
Us Lenco lovers know that what we hear is far superior to many modern day belt drives.
Finally, Teres has awaken and seeks the PRAT that we have been enjoying.
I wonder when the other manufacterers will hear the magic?
Enjoy your Lencos!!! |
Teres,
I appreciate your help in clearing this up. It's always risky to put info out there without good, clear information.
I applaud Teres for seeking a better way to bring joy to our hobby and way of life.
Please keep us posted on any new developments.
Respectfully, Oregon |
IMHO the Lenco motor is adequate, if not excellent. Simple design and easy to adjust if necessary.
It would be very difficult to spend $1700 for a motor one does not need. But if you do, I'd be happy to purchase your Lenco motor for $25!!!
|
So, nobody knows what happened to Llovers? all the information is lost, or is this just rumor?
Artd, can you have Francois chime in?
Thanks to all. |
Mario,
Very nice. Congratulations! |
Yo from the Great Northwest!
Please click on my system to see my latest Lenco beauties.
This thread has been one of the best public, worldwide services. The mighty Lenco has kept me at home, indoors and off the streets.
Another Lenco Crazy |
Jean,
Thanks for holding the Lenco flag so high and proud.
I am in total agreement, the Lenco should be left as it is- with regards to its integral parts; motor, base plate, idler wheel mechanism, spindle.
Please do replace the plinth using the recipe of baltic birch ply and MDF, and replace the arm with an affordable Rega. Once one gets a feel for what wonderful machines these oldies but goodies truly are, then go to the Lenco laboratory for further experiments and improvements.
Lucky for us, we have the know how at our fingertips-thanks to the Lenco aficionados on this wonderful site.
The Lenco is a KILLER!
Remember- friends don't let friends use belt drives. |
Hxt1 and Lew,
It would be great to see your work/systems on this site. I hope you will post some photos in the future.
Thanks, Oregon
|
Yo, lenco fools!
Added a Dynavector 17D III per Jean's recommendation. Wish I could say something negative (just for fun), but- the man from the great north is right again!!!
Excellent results- beautiful, moving, engaging MUSIC.
Thanks for keeping it positive Mario, David and Mr. JN! |
A Lenco lover who purchased one of my tables (replaced a Nottingham Spacedeck and Well Tempered), had a clamp custom built out of some strange, mysterious, expensive material.
I was against the idea. Just think of all the LPs out there for all that money?
After getting his wonder clamp and A/B comparisons, the clamp was never used again. Seemed to suck the dynamics out of the air. Toe stopped tapping. Had to call the toe truck.
Lenco no like clamp!
Lenco like records!!
Lenco like MUSIC!!! |
Oh yes! I have seen the Black Slate Beauty machined parts as they were made.
The idler wheel doesn't use a shaft!
I've been lucky enough to have seen photos of the complete table as well.
I hope to hear this slate beauty, to compare with the Birch ply Lencos in my stable.
Impressive when one considers how well a properly (wood) plinthed, tweaked out Lenco can stand up to the ultraexpensive belt drives.
The word from the Mill is that this one is fantabulous. |
Hummmm???
Maybe its time to end Da Thread, Lenco Heaven and Lenco Lovers?
I propose LENCOS ANONYMOUS!!!
Twelve step program could go something like this:
-get some ply wood
-get a lenco
-throw the arm away
-get an RB300
-get a 103
OK, ya'll can add some more steps.
- Oh. one more step; email Mario, and get the the original thread which was mysteriously deleted at 4k+ hits.
This is where it started with me and many others when we saw a post about building a great turntable for 200 bucks, posted by some crazy nut. If you don't feel like sending Mario an email, (leave him alone, I'm sure he'd rather listen to some tunes), and simply see the 5 steps posted above, that's the basics.
This is where I first heard of a Lenco. I was actually prepared to buy a used (expensive) table. But when I emailed the seller, he said it had sold. Then he said, "the Lenco kicks the ass of the ..." (insert table name which the seller had just sold).
Now, I, like others, take the ideas which are shared on this thread- which Jean created, and lucky for us, Mario saved- and build some excellent, affordable* turntables.
I use the word lucky. Ideas are shared openly and transparently. At least that's been so with most of the Lenco fanatics on this thread.
*Affordable? The great Lenco was a stealing deal back when Jean started da thread. Now, even eBay seems to be looking for some.
Here goes: Lencos Anonymous
My user name is Oregon:I have several Lencos that I listen to, several which I've sold and some for sale. It baffles me that some folks would spend 40 THOUSAND DOLLARS for a turntable when there is a superb table which will bring the music from the grooves of your records to your grateful ears and still give you MORE pleasure. Just think of all the records you could buy with the $32,000.00 you have left over? Just think of all the synapses bursting in euphoric joy and sorrow when the MUSIC calls for it?
Jimi slicing down a mountain and building islands...
Beethoven and Schiller calling out to humanity...
Dylan opening a window...
Mozart reaching us through a clarinet...
Coltrane injecting us...
I quit the LA.
Time to put some records on!
|
Francois,
Just joking.
This is an excellent thread. Sometimes things get a little rocky.
I am familiar with Lenco Lovers and it is fantastic! |
"instead of building and testing, there is a bit too much theoretical discussions just going nowhere"
Yes, Francois.
Unfortunately, you are correct.
Here's a question to the Lenco Brethren:
Which is your best arm/cart combo with the mighty L75 replinth? |
Jean and Rick,
Thanks for allowing us to hear about your findings. I agree that the Lenco is superb where musicality thrives- the midrange. Most likely due to stability of speed. Of course, the highs and lower frequencies are powerful, defined and clear.
The Denon 103s have impressed me, but now I find that the Dynavector 17D III has opened up the sounstage- bloom and depth- to another level.
The 17D is an excellent cart.
Have a great Summer ya'll! |
Got to chime in-
Hi Jean, TIA, Bill, 04rdking,
Hi TIA: the answer to the first question is how much is it worth to you? Considering that just sitting on bricks with a Rega stuck in the hole the Lenco easily bested a fully-tricked-out Linn LP12, and with not much more than that a VPI TNT (as reported in early days on the first version of this thread which can be downloaded on Lenco Lovers)
I'd like to add 2 others tables that were bested by a crappy old L75, original arm, sitting on bricks before full rebuild and custom plinth-
Nottingham Hyperspace
Well Tempered
Remember: friends don't let friends use belt drives! |
Johnk,
Best is L75 or L78.
Musicdoc,
Trash the original arm and get a Rega RB 250 or 300. No need to mess with the original arm.
As mentioned above, see Lencolovers.com |
