Bluesound Node2 with outboard DAC

I had a Node 2 and used it with it's internal DAC and as a streamer. Upgrading to an Auralic Aries Streamer made a big improvement, and I think you have the other equipment to hear it!

Bluesound Node 2i here. I recently added an SMSL VMV D1SE, mostly because I wanted to locate my digital gear across the room from my analog gear and preamp, and the D1SE provided balanced outs.  I didn't really expect a difference, but I got one.  Mostly, I notice I can listen to the Node all day now if I'm too busy to deal with vinyl, where before I got listener fatigue after about 3 hours.  Badly mastered digital recordings are still bad, but I think there's an improvement with well mastered digital recordings.

I did not do a side by side comparison so I'm reluctant to describe any differences other than the listener fatigue, but that and the balanced outs made me very happy with the purchase.

I mainly play Apple Music by Airplay to my new Hegel H95 using it own built-in DAC.

I also have a Bluesound Node 2i when I connect via airplay to Node 2i and then into Hegel by a cheap Coax cable ($20), it sound worse with noticeable on the vocal sound seem not as clear and dark as directly connect via Airplay to the Hegel.

Just curious is it because of the cable I use? 
What if I upgrade the coax cable will it improve the sound to be better than directly connect via Airplay to the Hegel?

 

I’ve got the new Node into my Simaudio DAC via coax and it’s great for general listening. The difference going direct out vs DAC is noticeable but not earth shattering.

These days any good quality streamer + a good quality modern DAC = good sound. Outboard DAC optional. 

To start, If you already have a good quality media streamer like a Roku, you can use an Adapter that cost $25 on Amazon and output via toslink or maybe others to a DAC of your choice and get very good quality 2 channel hifi sound.

I have my Bluesound Node 2i connected to my Denafrips Pontus II DAC and it sounds great! I’m using a toslink connection from the Node 2i to the Pontus as I’m also connecting my Audiolab CDT 6000 transport to the Pontus via coax. Spinning silver discs is my preferred mode of listening and I give the SQ edge to CDs over streaming in my system. I believe that having a quality standalone DAC is essential to any digital system and I’m extremely happy with both streaming and CD SQ.  The Pontus was definitely a game changer for me.

  Two improvements I have noticed are more detail,and bigger,wider image. I'm even running my CD player through the Topping with positive results.


JCPenney Kiosk Associates

I plugged Vault 2i into my Pro-Ject S2D DAC via coax and noticed change from 44.1 to 88 and 96 ok MQA file played by Bluesound.  So it appears that all the MQA unfolding is done by the Bluesound which is reflected on my DAC’s display. Am I understanding it correctly?  I know that for the Pro-next to perform MQA unfolding, it has to be connected to a source via USB. However if I am am able to pull off MQA streaming via above connection, it would greatly simplify my system.

2nd or 3rd the RME and I also have a node 2. Obvious improvement and only on 3rd day but was a demo so probably broken in. Excited to mess with settings as there are loads of them. 

@garthb309 your interconnects need to go from the tac to the pre/amp. If you hook the RCA interconnects to the Node then you are using the Node's DAC.

I have a differenct but related question: when I hookup my external DAC to the Node2i, do I have the interconnects go from my DAC to the amp or from the Node2i to the amp?  (there is a toslink from the Node to the DAC in both cases)

@dbphd ,
That is what I am doing.
Node to Codex. I have no experience with Roon/Mac, so I can't say it will sound 'better', but I am very happy with my current combo.
Bob

For Roon I use a Mac Mini, ultraRendu with UpTone linear power supply, and Ayre Codex DAC with balanced analog to an Ayre A7e integrated that drives KEF LS50s.  I use an iPad for control.  Could I just run a Node 2i to the Codex DAC and expect the same quality audio?

db

Any updates? I am looking at getting either the topping d90 or the RME ADI 2 to maybe improve the sound quality of my system currently using the Node 2. thanks

+1 gb21

I would say listening up to 24/96khz there is no audible difference between well-built delta/sigma dacs that justifies a price above £1,000 (probably much lower e.g different Topping models). That is if they are built with the purpose to be uncoloured. But naturally you can pay extra for different features you like.

Waiting for my ordered RME. RME is a higly appreciated pro brand. Which means you get value for your cost. Will test it next week to Node 2 and others. Another fine pro dac for double cost would be the Crane Song Solaris.

Please inform us when you found a big improvement. :-)

I have the Node 2i for four months now.  In that time I have no disconnects between an iPad and the Node and just two or three dropouts of less than a second between the router and the Node.  I’m running it through a MHDT Orchid DAC now.  The most notable change is in how natural the presentation is.  It’s not a night and day fidelity thing.  It is a major listenability thing.  

Recently compared (2/27/2020) the Node 2i versus the  RME ADI-2 dac. The AB tests with volume matched showed a surprisingly small advantage to the RME. The issue then was why triple the purchase cost for a small gain. If you are not locked in to your favorite listening chair then it might be a challenge to appreciate the subtle gains. I am going to try other external DACs (Chord Qutest) to search for the big improvement that I hoped for but did not hear with the RME.

I'll chime in. I have a Node 2,and have been asking the yay or nay external DAC question on other sites,with little or no input. So,after reading many positive reviews,I purchased a Topping D50. I know,it's rather inexpensive,so please don't hate me!  I have to say after about a day of listening,this thing has settled down nicely. 
  Two improvements I have noticed are more detail,and bigger,wider image. I'm even running my CD player through the Topping with positive results. 
    
This is my first DAC,so I have no comments or comparisons on any other models.

I’ve found everything matters. I’ve heard major differences between the Node and the Allo digione sig, and again when I changed the power supply to Allo’s Shanti power supply. It’s about eliminating noise on the power input. 

Some listeners using outboard DACs seem to imply that the node has an effect on digital SQ.  On the Roon forum, one user claimed measurable difference on SQ (thru the speakers). I find that hard to believe. Is it really likely that the streamer degrades the digital signal fed to a DAC?

I'm thinking about purchasing a Bluesound Vault 2i to use with my Gungnir Multibit mybkexperience

I have the Node2, connected to a Schiit Bifrost multibit. The sound was better than the Bluesound dac. However I just went down the Raspberry pi rabbit hole ( pi 3b+, allo digione sig spdif out, shanti power supply) and a RME ADI-2 dac. It’s a bit of diy, but I just played Bowie’s Scary Monsters lp vs tidal through the new setup. The digital front end sounds like I’m sitting in the mixing studio. Amazing, no digital harshness. My vinyl front end( VPI prime, Hana SL, ph16) was a little bit rounder and ever so slightly narrower soundstage, but I’m nitpicking.
I guess paying attention to the beginning of the audio chain makes a difference. 

Regarding MQA, I believe Bluesound does the first unfolding, and sends it out to the dac, or you need to go into the settings and select mqa pass through where it will just let the dac do all the work. Though I’m not sure as I never had a MQA dac to try it out on.
Good luck
mdr

The dealer I purchased my Bluesound Node 2i suggested i connect it by way of Audioquest Carbon digital coax cable to an inexpensive Pro-Ject S2 DAC.  He told me the the Pro-Ject, even though it is very inexpensive is better than the DAC inside the Bluesound.  I do hear tighter bass and more detailed highs or is it like the EMPERORS NEW CLOTHS, by spending more on an external I have convinced myself it sounds better.

I still don't understand how using two MQA certified devices why I am not able to get full MQA unfolding?  Is it the digital coax cable that is the problem.  So, if that is what is breaking up the complete unfold, why then didn't Pro-Ject design their DAC with RCA inputs and RCA outputs so I could hear full MQA?  It must be the digital coax to be the problem.  Still don't understand why connecting two MQA devices why I would not get complete MQA unfold no matter how you connect the two devices.  Also, if Pro-Ject is aware of this, why would they even bother to put MQA into the DAC to begin with.  They should explain this in their owners manual.

I’ve been fine tuning my RME and there is nothing in this price range that can touch it. If you want to see a review of the RME w/very descriptive charts go to Audio Science Review. They described it as the best measured DAC to date. Very clear transparent sound w/a wide detailed sound stage. I’m using the SD Slow filter that takes out the top end digital harshness. Still plenty of detail w/cymbals, horns, strings and snare drums.Price & performance ratio is very high.

congrats on the RME
let us know how you like it after settling in....

OP.
Glad to hear you went with another outboard DAC and are pleased with the results.
Myself, I sold the esoteric dac and went with a mytek Brooklyn which was another huge step up and it supports mqa so now on the right files I am getting 24/192.

In a little piece of heaven for now!

Bluesound Bluesound DAC are ok but nothing special.  I’ve used an Oppo 105, Bryston DAC3, and Mytek Manhatten.  Pretty much any DAC will improve it

There's actually a Benchmark DAC1 on here right now at just $400.
That is going to be a nice improvement just for that little cash, certainly over Bluesound and likely an OPPO too.
A benchmark dac2 sold for 950 here about 4 days ago.
There are some great dac deals around.

Recently bought the RME ADI-2 DAC. Hooked it up to my Blue sound node and it was a huge improvement. RME is a German Pro Audio company that builds recording studio gear. It's a 32/768 kHz converter. W/features not found in other Dac's. Check it out on their website

I must say that a few weeks back I bought a very lightly used Benchmark Dac2 in mint shape for $1,200 and connecting my Oppo BDP105d to it and the difference in sound is amazing. One of the best tweaks ive made, a great dac. 

aliskhan. 
I would have to say a resounding YES.
The weak link of the vault and node is the DAC, any half way decent DAC is an improvement. 1000 to 1200 gets you in the very good DAC market in todays equipment.

I'm also thinking of using an external DAC with node 2... and I'm also wondering if spending $1000 to $1200 going to get any tangible or even worthwhile boost in SQ.

OP
I had huge issues with the OPPO app on my phone doing exactly the same and eventually gave up with it.
The OPPO is used purely for movies now and I use the Bluesound vault2 as my dedicated streamer, no connection issues from the Bluos app.

mahler123, What I was meaning as far as connectivity I should have said connection / disconnection issues. My Oppo BDP105D on a regular basis while streaming disconnects from my tablet I use as the controller. So I have to reopen the app, go back into Tidal and go back to who I was listening to. It's a major pain in the rump. Otherwise I would probably just get a better dac like Benchmark, Bel Canto or Mytek. Mytek because it plays MQA. 
Can anyone support the difference and is it worth paying more for an MQA DAC to listen to MQA files vs FLAC and other Hi-Res files ? 

I think by connectivity I would say the OP means the ethernet connection?
Vault 2 is easy as it is hard wired ONLY, no choice for wireless and so in all honesty zero dropouts as long as you have a premium fast internet service.
The node 2 gives you option of both wired and wireless I think.
Where possible I run all my components on wired connections so as to minimize any chance of dropout. From my main hub upstairs I ran hard wires down to two smaller hubs downstairs so I could feed everything by hard wire in both the HT room and my stereo room but that might have been overkill...lol.
Some have reported occasional dropouts on the node using wireless but I would think again it would be more down to your router than the node unit.

@Initim 
  I was using an Oppo 105 in the same system as my Vault2.  At first I was using the Vault2 as a stand-alone source into the preamp and quickly realized that I preferred the CDs that I was burning into the Vault2 played back from the Oppo.  I then plugged the digital out from the Vault2 into digital inputs for the Oppo and much preferred that.  It didn’t sound identical to the same discs played back natively on the Oppo, but very close.  After a while I added the Manhatten, using both the Oppo and Vault2 as digital transports, and they both sounded much better via the Mytek.  The very subtle differences between the Vault2 and the Oppo 105 May have been due to the differences between the coax and toslink inputs on the Manhatten, or due to differences in the 2 transports themselves, but they are very close.
  When Oppo announced that they will cease making disc spinners I bought a 203 and replaced the 105 with that.  I moved the 105 into a home theater system in a different part of the home and there is a Bluesound Node2 in that system.  I now run the Node2 into the DAC of the 105.  This has improved the sound of the Node2, but the rest of the HT system is made of mid fi gear that costs a fraction of my 2 channel  system, and the upgrade for the Node2 isn’t as blazingly obvious as the upgrades in the two channel system.
  The take away would be that the Bluesound products are fine as digital transports, but like any component, you need to consider the entire system before you make your choice.
  I didn’t understand the last part of your post regarding connectivity.  Can you rephrase that for me?

Uberwaltz and Mahler123. Thanks for feedback. I figured outboard DAC would be better. Question I'm asking is using a good or really good DAC like a Mytek Manhattan is the Bluesound worthy of good enough and quiet source to be worthy of using with a really good DAC, capable as a source. I hear this matters also. My OPPO bdp105 sounds pretty good. I think I can do better plus it disconnects a lot during streaming and have to start over where you were on Tidal is a pain. 
How's the Bluesound for keeping connectivity? 

I visited Audioconnection last year and Johnny was demoing the Bluesound Node/Vault for another customer. He played the onboard Bluesound DAC and then switched to an Ayre Codex. The difference was noticable-for the positive.
So, Yes, using an external DAC will improve sound reproduction.
I use both the optical and USB outputs.
B