Blocking the propaganda
clearthink, I was giving you credit for being funny. I guess it was misplaced. onhwy61.....that was funny. Really funny. For clearthink's benefit, right out of the dictionary: fetishism: 1. belief in magical fetishes. 2. extravagant irrational devotion. 3. pathological displacement of erotic interests. I was talking about the second definition. Maybe the first one. |
onhwy61"Have you never looked at the reflex port on your loudspeakers and wondered? Wait, are your loudspeakers rear-ported?" No I have never considered, fantasized or contemplated having sexual intercourse with audio equipment and it is increasingly evident that you have had such urges and I encourage to you seek help for what many would consider a sexual deviation that will prevent you from enjoying happiness in a sexual way with an actual fellow human instead of an inanimate object that can not love you back I feel very sorry for you and others that have these urges and I guess it's one more reason I never buy used equipment you never know where it has been or what fluids may have been injected in to it. |
Clearthink, you're being way too literal, but then again many audiophiles think of their equipment as "beloved". Have you never looked at the reflex port on your loudspeakers and wondered? Wait, are your loudspeakers rear-ported? |
n80" I did not take into consideration that everyone might not know the various meanings of 'fetishism'...you probably offended the very very large numbers of people who do actually swing that way" A fetish is "a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc." and if that is how you get your little jollies it is fine by me but it is a mistake for you to assume, deduce or infer that participants, contributors and readers of this forum or audiophiles, music lovers or musicians share your dependence on audio equipment for sexual performance, gratification and fulfillment and no I am not judging you in any way but I think you might need professional help so that you can function as a more complete human being. |
clearthink, that is very funny. I did not take into consideration that everyone might not know the various meanings of 'fetishism'. But just so you know, even though you might not have intended to be judgmental, you probably offended the very very large numbers of people who do actually swing that way..... |
n80"here always seems to be some level of fetishism that seems perfectly reasonable to some but unreasonable to others... I dabble in a number of 'high end' hobbies. One of my joys, and maybe this is a stupid fetish too, is getting to that point where I can appreciate something that is truly good... Well that is fine if your sexual life and sexual satisfaction is inextricably associated, linked and dependent upon your hobbies and audio life and that you may be unable to sexually "perform" without these hobbies and the equipment you acquire to indulge those hobbies but for you to assume based upon what you have read here that others share this particular sexual deviation is misguided on your part. I pass no judgment on you apparently use this equipment to achieve sexual satisfaction but probably the rest of us would likely prefer that you not infer, deduce or speculate about our sexual preferences, practices and interests on this site. Personally I feel very sorry for you that you suffer this problem and I do not mean that in a judgemental way at all you probably need help and I hope you are able to find it so that you can function as a human being without relying on things such as equipment used in Music Reproduction Systems to achieve your sexual gratification and fulfillment. |
Outsiders looking at the audio hobby oft perceive ritualistic behavior, psychological trickery or traps, obsessive compulsive behavior, fetishism, masochistic behavior, lack of cost benefit analysis, peer pressure, crass salesmanship, trolling, shilling, behaviors of addiction, a general inability to express characteristics of sound without being trite, glib or hackneyed. Yet the outsiders perceptions of hobbyists are not necessarily false. |
Outsider looking in here. Sorry if it is not my place to comment on such weighty matters but this seems to be a topic that generates a lot of navel gazing among serious audiophiles. There always seems to be some level of fetishism that seems perfectly reasonable to some but unreasonable to others. And to be honest, for those of us on the outside, the fetishism of even moderate audiophiles seems rather extreme to us. But that is neither here-nor-there because at many levels the outsider is in fact uninformed. And this is a problem, if you want to call it that, in most serious and expensive hobbies, especially those in which there is a large subject element like hearing, seeing, tasting and simple preference. I see this same thing in photography. And there are also gear heads in most hobbies of this nature. Their joy seems to be not in the music and not in the photograph and not in the performance of a sports car on an actual race track but in the specifications and potential capabilities of the audio equipment, car or camera or lens. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. But their objective and enjoyment is going to be different from those in whom the music and the actual image and actual lap times matter the most. In photography they are often called pixel peepers. Many of them have lavish gear. Many of them often can't recognize are truly good photograph much less make one. Many a 911 owner couldn't keep up with me in an old 350Z on a race track. Then there are the name droppers. Who has the mostest and the bestest and the latest. Those who will pay $2000 for a bottle of Pappy Van Winkle 23 and not be able to tell that it is hardly any better if better at all than a $110 bottle of Blantons. Nothing wrong with that either as long as they don't try to persuade someone that the Pappy is $1800 better. I dabble in a number of 'high end' hobbies. One of my joys, and maybe this is a stupid fetish too, is getting to that point where I can appreciate something that is truly good but also recognize where the increments of 'better' become of little meaning and high cost. That's subjective too of course. |
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OP clarification accepted and appreciated! turns out my filter inverts phase and feeds it back in to inputs !!!!! i value the inputs and opinions of others for sure one way is humble yourself and start listening to what others have on TT, CD player or streaming..... big fun Any Bentley owner filling own tank is a poser |
roberjerman Fremer recently promoted (reviewed) the 16K Grado cartridge! Raise your hands if anyone thinks this is a "good value for the money" product! >>>Typical pseudo skeptic Strawman argument. Nobody ever said it was a “good value for the money product.” Obviously it’s not. Duh! 😛 In fact, I’d call it a “bad value for the money” product. If you want to cause a ruckus you’ll have to do better than that. |
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roberjerman I had the honor of Mr. Fremer calling me an IMBECILE after I called him out on UTube for promoting (flogging) expensive PC’s in Stereophile! >>>>What a dork! You, not Fremer. 🤡 It is becoming apparent there is a huge gap between the cheap mid fi naysayers and the progressive, well-heeled High Enders. Light years, I’d opine. |
I don't care one iota about what people feel they need to do to tweak their rig...I have tweaks here and there...it's the promotion of sketchy products by commercial interests who cram their posts with hyperbole, with zero explanation of why or how a "magic" fuse or magnetic placemat can do anything other than enrich a greedy commercial entity that is lame. Cleeds is clearly unaware of how the legal system works, and that's not surprising...the claims of subtle or not so subtle improvement to hifi systems using hyperbole and subjective reviews of what could best be described as expensive placebos is part of the game, but keeping the sales force out of forums is what matters most to me. |
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Audio mags are fun to read. Don’t take them too serioulsly. Forums like this can be educational and they can be filled with arrogant airheads determined to prove how smart they are. Mostly here and many other audio forums, you find positive comments from audio nerds who AGREE Abc equipment is great. There is not much tolerance for negative comments or experiences that would be educational and informative about an audio manufacturer or dealer. In that stricter sense I don’t see magazines or forums as balanced information. |
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Damn! We just got the first argument worked out and now another one is about to blow. My business law prof told me many years ago to stay out of court if at all possible. cleeds you're just going to have to accept that wolf_garcia is a skeptic and can't hear what you can and not let his views upset you. wolf_garcia should let the tweakers have their fun and not try to rile them up too much. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, just offering a suggestion to help keep the peace. Who wants to argue about something that can't be settled. We can't hear with anyone else's ears, just our own. |
wolf_garcia The market for expensive tweaks often made up of inexplicable "magic" properties is one that always needs criticism, simply because it's mostly driven by greedy frauds preying on the insecurities of gullible audio geeks who welcome any hyped placebo.If you're really so convinced that what you allege is fraud, why don't you go to court and sue for damages? Of course, it's much easier to just keep repeating your allegations here without having to prove your rather paranoid instincts. And it's probably more fun for you. But please consider the legion of souls you could save with just one court victory! And you'd have lifetime bragging rights here. |
I read audio mags and forums for entertainment...like many my ability to assemble an audio system is driven by my ears only, and if somebody else hears good things from an item I own, hey, that's great (A reviewer recently liked my Klipsch Heresy III speakers, and I thought it was my secret...who knew?). The market for expensive tweaks often made up of inexplicable "magic" properties is one that always needs criticism, simply because it's mostly driven by greedy frauds preying on the insecurities of gullible audio geeks who welcome any hyped placebo. If you've been around a while you see this stuff pass into history as silliness. Experience and listening to things while being secure in your own tastes is important as well as being able to detect hyperbole from reviewers. |
@fsonicsmith - I think in some ways you overstated your "filter" and drew the ire of other members. For example, you acknowledged learning about a tonearm via the forum, but then did your own research. If so, you are still finding value in the forum as a starting point.You're absolutely right. Right that I went too far and that it drew ire for that reason. It was a poor choice of words on my part. I went overboard in trying to convey the premise which is that in the modern world, we think that we are too busy to pull up our sleeves and dig into how things work and why for ourselves. Too busy to figure out for ourselves what is and what is not important.That we tend to rely on Motor Trend or Car and Driver for rating cars while we don't expend the effort to learn how to change the oil. Or continuing with cars, that we buy an expensive sports car but don't take a professional driving course on a track to learn how to properly drive it. I reported the comment by this turntable technician and how it made me think differently. When you disassemble customer's turntables and rebuild them from the ground up day after day and install different tonearms and listen and design and machine your own custom parts, you develop a knowledge base that is truly independent. In particular, this turntable technician taught me that the choice of cartridge is far less important than proper alignment. On any given deck, he can make the table sound better with a simple vintage Shure cartridge than most of us can with some megabuck cartridge. |
+1 @tomcy6 I think I first started posting here (rather than just searching) when I was considering the transition from Crosby Quads to horns. I got some good input from a number of people, including Fred Crowder, who owned Crosby Quads and had moved to a horn type speaker. Since then, I’ve gotten help on electrical issues in running dedicated lines (@Jea48 has been a wonderful resource), and on other targeted subjects, including air compressor issues (for my tonearm), grounding using an isolation transformer and the use of surfactants in ultrasonic record cleaning machines. Someone once told me that in any discussion, public discourse, meeting, whatever, take what you get that helps and don’t fret the stuff that isn’t constructive or helpful. Interestly, as my knowledge base increased, I found some older threads here (and on other Internet resources) to have more relevance. @fsonicsmith - I think in some ways you overstated your "filter" and drew the ire of other members. For example, you acknowledged learning about a tonearm via the forum, but then did your own research. If so, you are still finding value in the forum as a starting point. @elizabeth - your input is valued, as is the input of others here. So, as far as I’m concerned, I do "care" what others think if I am seeking their help or input on something. Perhaps that’s not what you meant. ************************************** As to snark and Internet sniping, I think it’s always been there. I helped advise a forum related to cars some years ago and the amount of rancor among well-heeled, supposedly sophisticated people was over the top. I don’t think it’s gotten worse, we are just more attuned than ever to the words spoken and written via the Net since it is now a primary connection to the world around us, for better or worse. |
elizabeth, We all care about what other people think. We learn from their experience and opinions. I would not like to try to put together an audio system without any input from anyone, just start picking out components at random, not even knowing what they do. We just have to try not to be the people who start arguments. When a thread goes bad just don’t read it. Stick to the threads that are helpful or enjoyable. There are a lot of people who like to argue but there are a lot of good people here, we can’t let the argumentative ones chase the good ones away. There's even a thread titled Cds vs Vinyl that has managed to stay civil. Who would have ever believed that that could happen? Tip: Stay away from threads about fuses or the directionality of wires. |
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The "high-end" sound has become a trend far away from natural sounding music to my ears.erik and Michael, Getting natural sounding music has been difficult since the days of wax cylinders. I think that today we have more high quality equipment (high quality does not mean the most expensive) to choose from to produce a musical, natural sounding audio system than ever before. The problem, as in many areas of modern life, is that we are faced with so many choices the problem becomes sorting through them all. But that’s just another opinion. You guys continue to take your $100 receivers apart or listen to vintage equipment or whatever sounds best to you. |
