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  3. 137017-12450

Blocking the propaganda

I have a friend who lives in the boondocks who is without question the foremost expert in this Country on a certain vintage turntable. I will leave the particulars out so as to avoid making him the focus of this discussion or letting someone else figure out who I am talking about. He said something to me recently that I always knew on a certain level but have not seen "transparently" until his comment. His statement is this; "audio magazines including Stereophile are useful for birdcages and if you run out of toilet paper and nothing else". This was in the context of discussing Mike Fremer's preference for 9" arms. I have concluded that he is absolutely correct, but only for those who have the guts to really dive into audio with open eyes and willing to expend the effort to focus all of their attention and for lack of a better word, devotion, to figuring out the truth for themselves. This person I speak of has unquestionably done that. He has engineered his own products that make his turntable of choice as good as it can get. He thinks outside the box. Convention or "accepted thought" mean nothing to him. The analogy that comes to mind is wine. I know of many who will not buy a wine unless some critic has given it a 90 or above. When someone points out how silly it is to rely on published numbers from someone they don't know, they claim that they rely on experts and numerical ratings because they lack the patience, time and resources to taste wine options for themselves. What it boils down to is intellectual laziness. I intend to filter out 100% of what I read in magazines and even audio boards as absolutely unreliable. I have no doubt that I will fall short, but it is a lofty goal nonetheless. We all ought to forge our own trail(s) with sweat and effort and open minds and avoid laziness. Apologies to those who don't appreciate sermons. 
fsonicsmith

Showing 7 responses by whart

whart's avatar
whart
3,125 posts
 
I understand your disenchantment with the commercial magazines, but filtering out 100% of what you read on the audio boards as well?
I’ve found this board very helpful on set up quirks or optimization questions-
I agree that one should approach anything with a degree of skepticism but that also requires some open-mindedness-- since otherwise the ’filter’ is blocking out all information.
I find myself researching a lot of topics on industrial,scientific, chemical, plastics/materials sites, including boards, journals, white papers, etc. most of which are not directly audio related.
I’m not afraid to pick up the phone or send an email and ask a manufacturer or technical person to explain something if they have time--
I’m certainly not smart enough to design my own circuitry or equipment-- I rely largely on commercial products made and sold by others-- but I’ve learned a hell of a lot from the DIY fora as well as science and tech journals that are not directly related to audio.
And from some of the kind, knowledgeable folks on this board.
In other respects, I agree that groupthink is the easy way out. One should be inquisitive; I think people have a limited amount of time, energy and in some cases, money to invest in pushing the limits and questioning everything. 
PS: without getting into a skirmish over Mr. Fremer, I think he has done the vinyl/analog side of the business a great service in keeping the flame alive during the dark years. He’s controversial, he’s opinionated and he’s a classic NY character, but whether you like him or not, he’s helped to promote vinyl/analog more than any single person I can think of, offhand.

whart's avatar
whart
3,125 posts
 
@fsonicsmith -M. Fremer is a "kibitzer" in the good Yiddish sense of the word. There's a pretty well-known Lenny Bruce schtick about NY'ers that I'll have to dig out...
whart's avatar
whart
3,125 posts
 
+1 @tomcy6
I think I first started posting here (rather than just searching) when I was considering the transition from Crosby Quads to horns. I got some good input from a number of people, including Fred Crowder, who owned Crosby Quads and had moved to a horn type speaker.
Since then, I’ve gotten help on electrical issues in running dedicated lines (@Jea48 has been a wonderful resource), and on other targeted subjects, including air compressor issues (for my tonearm), grounding using an isolation transformer and the use of surfactants in ultrasonic record cleaning machines.
Someone once told me that in any discussion, public discourse, meeting, whatever, take what you get that helps and don’t fret the stuff that isn’t constructive or helpful. Interestly, as my knowledge base increased, I found some older threads here (and on other Internet resources) to have more relevance.
@fsonicsmith - I think in some ways you overstated your "filter" and drew the ire of other members. For example, you acknowledged learning about a tonearm via the forum, but then did your own research. If so, you are still finding value in the forum as a starting point.
@elizabeth - your input is valued, as is the input of others here. So, as far as I’m concerned, I do "care" what others think if I am seeking their help or input on something. Perhaps that’s not what you meant.
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As to snark and Internet sniping, I think it’s always been there. I helped advise a forum related to cars some years ago and the amount of rancor among well-heeled, supposedly sophisticated people was over the top. I don’t think it’s gotten worse, we are just more attuned than ever to the words spoken and written via the Net since it is now a primary connection to the world around us, for better or worse.
whart's avatar
whart
3,125 posts
 
Any Bentley after W.O. lost the company isn’t really a Bentley (though I like the ’50s era Continental fastback).
whart's avatar
whart
3,125 posts
 
@n80- I agree that there is as much snark in the car world on the Internet, but because most of the fora are marque specific, it filters out a lot of people who would go on Rennlist (or whatever) and trash Porsches in favor of something else.
Most of the performance of cars is down to the driver in my estimation. (Obviously, we aren’t talking about top speed runs, but those are of little interest to me).
I know there is a huge aftermarket for tweaks and performance improvements, but as you’ve said, they’re measurable for the most part- increased HP, torque, whatever. (I participated in one of those some years ago by agreeing to pay for a fancy exhaust system if it won the test, with the understanding that the manufacturer would refund me if not; it didn’t and I got my money back without a problem).
The best car analogy I can draw is that despite performance figures, "better technology" and overall better performance, safety and convenience,  there is something so immediate about driving a light, old, well balanced car- road feel and not being cosseted in an environment of comfort that removes you from the driving experience.
New bling, whether hi-fi or cars, doesn’t really get my attention or interest. I quit reading the car mags quite a while ago too, and am well out of it when it comes to that world now. (I did get to have one of my cars reviewed by R&T as the feature car some years ago, and that was a blast, but it really didn’t change the driving experience or the value of the car at the end of the day. It was just a fun opportunity that I got to take advantage of, during the years when I would be humiliated on the track by much better drivers).
whart's avatar
whart
3,125 posts
 
@glupson- don't freak on @geoffkait - he's an interesting, quirky character here, and I doubt he meant anything personal by what he said. You were just the target of convenience for his humor, which is actually pretty funny sometimes if you spend long enough in these corridors. I think most people try to get or contribute what they can and just disregard the rest. I'm not making excuses for geoff, just suggesting that his sense of humor is a bit out there, and you shouldn't get upset by whatever is said here. The nice thing about the Internet is that you can turn it off. :)
Nite. 
whart's avatar
whart
3,125 posts
 
@glupson- This place is relatively tame in my experience. I did a lot of legal work in the era when the Internet was first exploding, and I dealt with a variety of characters, from hard core hackers to people involved in various crimes that would fit into the ’cyber crime’ category today.
Don’t take any of it personally. Just find your niche here-- there’s plenty of give and take where you can get good information or exchange ideas. Audiogon remains a good forum despite it’s somewhat kludgey format and the moderators seem to be ok too- not too heavy handed unless really necessary.
Most of Geoff’s pokes and prods aren’t particularly nasty-- I wouldn’t read too much into it.
I think the philosophical threads are an open invitation to controversy but really, I don’t see this thread as particularly harsh or venal. That may not be worth anything to you- just trying to help put this into perspective.

@geoffkait- that line was from George Carlin, no?

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