Sound is personal as we all know. I've built and have heard a lot of build it yourself speakers and I've just never heard a pair sound as good as higher end speakers from a larger/name brand company. That's just me, but I'd listen with open ears like I always do if there was a pair around. I get to Madison often as my step kids are there. Do they have a pair set up to listen to if I go visit them?
The problem with your thoughts for many of us is that the amps DO matter as much as the source and speakers etc... Even if the speakers are as good as you say, if you use an inferior amp or source to save money, then your sound can't be as good as the brand name speaker being fed a great signal. Just go listen at any dealer and have them put on a speaker you like and keep changing amps in every price range. I've owned B&K for years. I just sold my original ST140 that was heavily modified by the guys in Bristol, CT who used to do the mods working with the B&K engineers as they were very tight. They are nice amps for the price, but are not in the same league as Ayre and others that most of us use with our speakers. I thought my Ayre AX7e was a tremendous amp (I was switching from modified Quicksilver mono's), but once I got the Ayre AX5 i was in shock at what I was missing in my sound. Then I did the upgrade to the AX5/20 and WOW. A totally different league from the AX5. A great speaker will showcase what you feed it. If you are feeding a great speaker with B&K, Rotel, NAD or other amps in that range, then you are starving the speaker and not allowing it to shine.
I get out a LOT and listen at dealers all over the country and I am fortunate to get to hear a lot of gear and others on here have also. I have just never heard a pair of any 20k speakers sound great with amps in the range you are talking about compared to the same speaker with a really nice amp. Even if I don't like the speaker due to it running a bit hot on the high end or maybe the bass is a bit tubby or the speaker won't give me that leading or trailing edge properly, I can still hear said speaker sound much better with better amplification and or source. I'd love to hear others who have also done this test to post about their thoughts.
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@ctsooner You are correct in the notion that it’s difficult to sell something like my 12 channel B&K amp. And you’re also precluded from using the many fine, better 2 channel amps out there (unless you want to buy 4 of ’em...). Getting into a Linkwitz system is a big commitment, but not as big as you might think.
I’ve heard the best of the best. I’m very fond of the big floor standing Avalon loudspeakers. But even the Eidolan model sells for $20,000 used, when you can find them. And of course you’re going to drive them with a power amp costing no less than $5000. Now you’re $25k into it and you haven’t even considered what speaker cable to use... That’s not a big commitment?!
Building a Linkwitz LX521 (which I consider to be equal to or better than the big Avalons) and even a new ATI 12 channel amp as Linkwitz suggests is less than $5000 total. You tell me which is a bigger commitment.
Heck. You could build 4 tubes4hifi ST-120, 60 wpc power amps for less than $5000 and have a total system cost under $8000 and still be $17,000 under the used Avalon system.
There are any number of choices for suitable amplification to support a Linkwitz design. When I first built my Orions, I ran four Hafler pro grade pancake amps at 50 wpc. I was able to score them for about $125 each. But one kept having problems and after 2 trips to the Hafler service tech, I decided it was time to do something else.
I saw the listing on EBay for a 12 channel B&K amp and I got it for $500, and it was from a local dealer, so I just drove over there and picked it up. I ran a 2 channel B&K ST-140 for almost 20 years and have always liked their sound. I find my B&K AV1260 to have a similar sonic character and one I’m quite happy with.
Linkwitz himself uses inexpensive class D amps.
So no. I don’t see how the multi-amp nature of Linkwitz designs really have to restrict anyone. |
A lot of responses here! I'll add one more: Snell Type B or C5. What is important to keep in mind is that you really need to work with the speakers to find out what they like. I spoke with one guy who said he took the speakers out of the box, didn't like what he heard, repacked them all in an hours time! Crazy. One good point about the Snells is they was off the shelf drivers. The Type B's are now 20 years old. I bid $2000.00 on a pair and got them for under $700.00 The midrange drivers needed replacing. They now sound great at under $1000.00 Joe |
Harbeth used
Amphion pro line
Proac used
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Revel F206 would be a no brainer choice for any music. A lot of product for the money. Revel just offers more. FWIW. |
A friend of mine just picked up a used pair of Legacy Focus 20/20's for $2200. Super efficient and can be driven nicely with a modified Dyna 70. Wonderful speakers. Don't use solid state amps though. The Legacy's love tubes. |
Regarding the trashing of Cerwin Vega, the XLS-215 is apparently quite good. Check out this review calling them "the best deal in home audio today". I'd love to hear them. ...but 99% of audiophiles will never want to <blah> That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. |
At that price point the Golden Ear Triton 2's deserve an audition. Very nice speakers and with powered subs have plenty of bottom end! Image very well also ... they hold a center image like crazy even with the speakers fairly far apart and create a very nice soundstage. The main problem with them is that most people audition them with receivers and never really hear what they are truly capable of.
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I can't believe anyone mentioned Cerwin Vega in the same post as RF-7's. And any of you who think Klipsch speakers are a joke know nothing. RF-7's are very good speakers. Their Palladium line is as good as any speaker mentioned in this thread and their Heritage Line is outstanding.
I know it is popular now days to laugh at Klipsch because they produce speakers for nothing you can buy at Wal-Mart. But they also still make some of the best speakers in the world. |
Russ, the problem really IS the amping. You're basically locked into that B&K amp which most folks don't own. If you need to buy a new amp for the speakers, then you are locked into things and have a product that has a very small used market when you want to get rid of them. Some, like you, will go for that, but 99% of audiophiles will never want to lock themselves into one or two amps especially when there are so many amps that are better on the market. Just makes no sense business wise to lock yourself into that. JMHO |
bdp24 writes:"One problem with the LX521 is that it requires six channels of amplification---three stereo power amps. That nullifies it's low price."
Not at all. The LX521 calls for 8 to 10 channels at 60wpc. I run a 12 channel B&K AV1260 which meets that spec. It retails for about $1200. Linkwitz recommends an ATI amp that is also a 12 channel amp that retails at $1600 or so. I see the B&K AV1260 amps going for $500 and less on EBay all the time. So no. The multi-amplification issue isn't a problem. You're welcome to use more expensive amps, but it isn't necessary. |
As said by a fellow Audiogon-er in another one of these threads: "If you are not
willing to go out and listen to speakers that are in your price range then I
think that you should keep what you have and convince yourself that you just
bought them and they are wonderful.
Asking for recommendations from strangers who
do not have your equipment, room or music is a great way to become an equipment
collector. Basing your purchases on reviews is just as unwise. When's the last
time you read a review that was unfavorable? Audiogon is full of classifieds
from well-meaning so called audiophiles who continually "turn"
equipment because they mostly buy without trying and read reviews. They listen
to the component for a few months and move on. That is not the way to achieve
bliss only frustration and a lot of wasted money.
If you sincerely care about music and building
a synergistic system you have to put in the time and travel to hear what gives
you goosebumps, anything less is a crap-shoot." |
I really like my new ProAc Studio 148s. Great imaging and very deep bass. They take a while to break in. I worked out nice price with my dealer for new 148s in mahogany. I am also using them with Soundocity SEV9 outriggers for greater stability.
Check my system details if you are curios... |
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Whomever recommended the Living Voice speakers is spot on. For what you said is your amp and your listening preference, they should take care of things.
Truthfully, so could a pair of Reference 3A Grand Veenas or, rarer still, the Escalante Fremont.
FWIW, I own a pair of AZ Adagios, but have heard all the speakers listed above in my post, so no favorites here. The Adagios don’t have that juicy punch rap needs.
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I tried to edit, but was too late. I'm sure that you will chose your speakers over anything else, but my point is that if 10 people can chose their favorite speaker and then yours, I bet all 10 will chose their favorite speakers. Subjective, that's all. |
Russ, how can you honestly make that statement. Sorry, but first off maybe for YOU it's the best, but have you ever heard Vandersteen 7 mkII? Have you heard the larger speakers from nearly anyone? Sorry, but there is no way that statement is true. I'd put my Treo's up against them any day of the week. |
One problem with the LX521 is that it requires six channels of amplification---three stereo power amps. That nullifies it's low price. |
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Magnepan 1.7i good, Eminent Technology LFT-8b "gooder"! |
Consider a home audition of Ohm Walsh 2000 ($2800/pr). You have enough juice for them, and they do just about everything well. As long as your room is not larger than the recommended room size for the speakers (see the Ohm web site), you might find them the perfect solution to your search.
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Magnepan 1.7i and DWM hands down for jazz!!!!
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Check out the Spendor A5R. I’ve owned a few Spendor floorstanders and I think they would fit the bill! |
There's a pair of Joseph Audio RM25XLs for sale here a bit below your price target. I know you mentioned the SF Venere above, and having had them both in my system (Venere 2.5) I'd put the RM25XLs at a significantly higher level in terms of refinement, imaging/soundstage, linearity, and overall build quality. They also go a bit lower than the 2.5s and are likely an easier load for your amp as they don't dip below 6 Ohms. Just another option and best of luck.
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considering the amp being used and the real world price of the RF7, it might not be such a bad recommendation. I wouldn't choose them, but when I heard them, was quite surprised they sounded pretty good |
Trevill,
i found the the suggestion to buy Klipsch or Cerwin Vega to be really funny. I wonder if he was just being sarcastic when he made those recommendations. I liked the way you said those speakers are for punks. |
Agree with sbank and would add Vandersteen to the list of extra careful audition due to placement, set up, and electronics issues... |
The Zu line IMHO has a very distinct house sound that is more system dependent (or perhaps room dependent?) than most others. I've heard them sound great & terrible and everything in between.
The Zu guys seem so cool and there funky colorful designs are unique in many ways, but I'd tread carefully before buying. A demo with your own gear is even more recommended than it usually is. Cheers,
Spencer
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Thanks for the advice I'm going to listen to them after Christmas I'm also interested in the sonus faber veneer |
Paraneer, actually he mentions what kind of amp he has in the first post, and at least some of us are familiar with its capabilities.
I'd suggest demoing the Totem's carefully, they have a unique house sound. |
Thanks guys I have been looking at the zu audio omens as well and the vandersteen 2ce sig I I and the totem forests |
The OP now has 17 suggestions on his short list. And we do not even know what kind of amp he has or if it could properly drive any of what has been suggested. Buying a speaker this way is akin to selecting a vacation destination while blindfolded and throwing darts at a map! |
A factor you may want to consider in narrowing down the many possibilities that have been suggested is that I suspect the sonics of your amplifier are likely to be significantly better driving a speaker having a nominal impedance of 8 ohms (or more), compared to driving a nominally 4 ohm speaker.
The main reasons I say that are (a)the amp’s 4 ohm power rating is only 60% higher than its 8 ohm rating (240 watts vs. 150 watts), rather than the ideal which would be a doubling or close to it, and (b)its weight (which is often a useful indicator of power supply robustness) is only 31 pounds (light for a class AB two channel amplifier having such high power ratings).
Good luck. Regards,
-- Al
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Melb, gives a nice mix for you to start with. You have speakers that are all voiced a bit differently so depending on your tastes, you'll fine at least a few that you will like. |
Aerial 7b, 8, 8B, or 10T all do a good job at what you want, and at current used prices are enough below your budget to get a better amp also |
It sounds like the OP wants what sounds best at $3000 for others, then he'll decide among this short list developed using whatever factors he decides to use.
Trrevell, I have found that bang for buck is best with either used, or internet direct companies like your emotiva amp. An internet direct speaker company that floored me with its Sierra 2 model was Ascend Acoustics. This speaker simply does everything right with no weaknesses. The detail, accuracy and air is just splendid. The highs, with the Raal Ribbon tweeter, are never harsh but so real and detailed.
For you, I'd suggest looking into the floorstander model, the Sierra Tower, with the Raal Ribbon option. A 7 year warranty, 30 day in home trial, for 2800. Not sure about shipping though. |
I would look for the speaker that your amp can properly drive, is within your budget and most important - sounds best to you. But you really insist on my recommendation to add the growing list above, I'll be happy to give it you. |
Proac D20R's are a fantastic speaker as well as Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand SE's. I think you would like either of these better than the Zu's.
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If you’re after a more sophisticated speaker that nails voice and blues guitar, I’d check out the LV OBX-R2’s Trrevell. |
Thanks charo but those are horrible speakers and I'm not just a punk kid who wants to blast out their neighbors I mainly listen to rhythm and blues , jazz and blues I like soulful music I have been looking at the zu audio speakers but have yet to hear any |
I second the Legacy Focus HD for your taste in music. No subwoofer needed, very efficient, lots of slam and energy.
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Unless your room emphasizes bass, I don't think you are going to be happy with the speakers listed above for the kind of music you listen to. They are designed to be more neutral, which, IMO, does not lend itself well to home reproduction of rap and soul. Anyway that's my opinion.
You should check out the Klipsch RF7 or the Cerwin Vega speakers on Amazon, which I think are more suited to what you're doing. Also, look at Axiom speakers, available on the web direct. I think they're very nice and will work out better for you in the end. |
Tannoy, F8's Ton's of reviews, great sound, great value.
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Sonus Faber Toy Tower!!!WAY under your budget & worth EVERY penny of $3000.00!!! |
