Best kept secret in AC line filtering conditioning

I forgot to mention this applies to Everything in your system 
they have a 12 outlet model also but much more $$ around $2700

Search Puritan 156.  There are at least three previous threads extolling the virtues of the unit, one started by me.

The 156 is $2300, and the 1512, which is the 12 outlet model, is $4200 in the States according to one US dealer's website. You’re quoting prices from their website but noting the wrong currency. The website prices are in pound sterling when buying in the UK. Aside from the dollar’s weakness against the pound 1.39 to 1 , I'd assume the additional difference also reflects shipping , customs and US dealer markups

I have an AQ Niagara. I don’t have any unwanted hums or noise. However, I am getting a 2.2kw double conversion lithium ion ups as we get a lot of power interruptions in central Florida, and the Niagara doesn’t have that capability. 😎

When my amp is on with shorting plugs in the inputs, the volume all the way up, the silence is deafening, even with the rest of the gear plugged in, just a faint hiss, so how will this help improve things, or wouldn’t it?
Maybe the average UK power supply is quite good quality, or my amp just has a very good PS. https://www.radiomuseum.org/r/frank_hi_fi_stereo_amplifier_pram_30.html


Component wise, it’s not a lot for your money.
@oldhvymec +1

"best kept secret" is a marketing hype phrase. However good these units are, and the testimony about them is quite good, your language gives you away as someone promoting them rather than advocating qua hobbyist.

I just have a difficult time thinking you could hear the difference in a blind test.  Be interesting to know.

People who reach for this must listen to their systems for every flaw and not really enjoy their system because they think they are settling for less.  How can you enjoy music if you are constantly trying to pick your system apart piece by piece?

You need to work on your guerrilla marketing technique. :)

Best process is enthusiastically recommending a product dozens of times in theses threads (sometimes having never heard it). Be relentless. Then, when momentum builds, and sales are boosted, reach out to your dealer (or even better, the manufacturer) to place an order. Ask if a nice discount might be possible based on increased sales you generated.

Many hifi reviewers have been using this technique for decades. You know, "I liked it so much I bought the review sample."

That’s how it’s done.

As for this comment:

...against the much more costly AQ niagra this removes hum,noise

I have written a comparison elsewhere between a lower cost AQ Niagara 1200 and a Puritan 156. I preferred the Niagara 1200 and sold the Puritan 156. Both products removed noise. I have no direct experience with their affect on hum, but hum is usually a grounding issue.

Every system is different, as is every listener.

“Best process is enthusiastically recommending a product dozens of times in theses threads (sometimes having never heard it). Be relentless. Then, when momentum builds, and sales are boosted, reach out to your dealer (or even better, the manufacturer) to place an order. Ask if a nice discount might be possible based on increased sales you generated.”

This is no secret….just read the threads started by millercarbon 😂

Matter of fact the way it works, they call me and not the other way around. They do this because what they value more than anything else is credibility. Quality writing, the ability to clearly explain how something works and performs runs a close second. This works because of a fundamental disconnect you are unable to grasp, in spite of being told repeatedly.

So here it comes again. The vast majority of readers never post. They do their due diligence, find their information, and act. They do not blather. They just do. This is what is throwing you off. You think that because every time you log on you see blather, that this is the point of the site. It is not. In truth the real use involves filtering past the blather in order to find useful information.

Readers find that with Millercarbon. They even, and I know this one'll be hard to swallow, but they even enjoy reading me dismantle shibboleths, canards- and empty-suited blatherers.

I have the 156 and love it. It also has DC blocking on every outlet which has quieted several buzzing toroidal transformers in my system. Nice little extra!

I found it a bit forward and bright sounding the first week, but it settles down after that and is very natural sounding. To get the most out of it owners should purchase the partner product - Puritan Ground Master. These two work together in a synergistic manner. The Ground Master will please your ears by removing additional noise serving up music with a greater sense of ease and improved tone (more natural sounding). Stage size increases as does the space between instruments. Realism is also improved.
The Ground Master is a $240 small box which comes with a cable hooking up to your 136 or 156 ground post. You drive an 8 foot copper clad grounding rod into the ground, hopefully relatively close to your music room, and run an 8 gauge copper wire from it to the appropriate Ground Master post. The Ground Master enables you to do this safely. The effect is quite noticeable.

Just to be clear - “it’s all about credibility.” 

Some folks here are understanding “noise” incorrectly. We are not talking about the hiss, buzz, hum etc…coming out of your speakers as you turn the volume up with no music playing. The Puritan 136 & 156 help remove noise that is actually in the final audio signal - the music you hear. This noise can be defined as any unwanted signal which is corrupting/perverting the fidelity of the recording. These artifacts can blur, add haze, distort, corrupt tone, constrict, mask and obscure detail and on and on….

My mention of the DC blocker in the 156 is referring to the buzz/hum that transformers can make as they vibrate inside a chassis. Residual amounts of DC riding on the AC line can cause some torriods to hum and vibrate. This phenomenon has nothing to do with signal noise.

The Ground Master is a $240 small box which comes with a cable hooking up to your 136 or 156 ground post. You drive an 8 foot copper clad grounding rod into the ground, hopefully relatively close to your music room, and run an 8 gauge copper wire from it to the appropriate Ground Master post. The Ground Master enables you to do this safely. The effect is quite noticeable.

The mains in most dwellings have a copper rod tied to the service panel ground. All electrical device’s safety grounds are connected to the neutral and ground bars.

How can creating a new earth ground which is separate from the service panel ground meet local code?

That’s what the box is for and you can do a quick Google search to see the video and the explanation of the box. I pasted a link below. Without the box it would not be safe.  

http://www.puritanaudiolabs.com/products/ground-master/

There are now over 80 posts regarding the Puritan 156 on A'gon dating back to the end of 2019, the great majority of them positive.  It would be regrettable if this thread ended up doing a disservice to the unit.

@grannyring  "This noise can be defined as any unwanted signal which is corrupting/perverting the fidelity of the recording."
If there is no noise when the amp volume is up with no input signal, where and why does this unwanted signal become apparent when there is an input signal, and if it can affect the recording audibly, why can't you hear it when there is no input signal. A quiet amp is a quiet amp, it doesn't suddenly become noisy when it has an input signal.

Reread my post and you should understand. The audio signal is where the noise ends up.  Your amp with no audio signal entering it or being amplified through it is not playing music. 

@grannyring
Good explanation on the video. The box is creating a star-ground for all the components and sending an equal impedance to mother earth.

I bet it works great. But I still wonder about code. What will an inspector say when he sees a ground rod not tied to the service panel ground. The box probably prevents voltage returning and causing electrocution. But still, what will an inspector say?
(I am not an electrician)

@grannyring I understand that, but if there is no noise from the amp when it’s not playing, and no noise from the amp when everything is connected to it and switched on and it’s not playing, then surely there is no noise entering the system from the mains supply, or if there is the systems power supplies are dealing with it. It can’t just suddenly appear just because I start playing a flac file. Maybe the mains supply is generally cleaner here for some reason, as I have never had a mains noise problem or needed any mains conditioner, and I have used the mains supply in many places across the UK. Maybe the UK being smaller and having many power stations, we are all just closer to the source here, or maybe 230V as opposed to 110V has something to do with it? I don’t know, apart from 230V equipment drawing roughly 50% the current of 110V.

I don’t know how houses are wired in the US, here the downstairs and upstairs power ring are on their own breakers, as are the upstairs and downstairs lighting rings. Power rings are 2.5mm FTE cable and lighting is 1.5mm FTE cable, Also Immersion heaters and Cookers are on there own separate breaker/feed.

My electrician put in the rod and wiring. No inspector. When I sell I remove the wire! 

Millercarbon wrote,

Readers find that with Millercarbon.

Good old Jimmy. Jimmy refers to himself in the third person. Jimmy’s got good game. Jimmy’s got special shoes, amps, and speakers. https://youtu.be/xoskJPDbXR0?t=33

chris_w_uk

... maybe 230V as opposed to 110V has something to do with it? I don’t know, apart from 230V equipment drawing roughly 50% the current of 110V.

You're confused. For any given load, the current will be the same as 120VAC as it is at 240VAC. See Laws of Thermodynamics, conservation of energy.

@cleeds
1000Watts @ 240V - 1000/240 = 4.16 Amps
1000Watts @ 110V - 1000/110 = 9.09 Amps
My point being if connections are not perfect trying to pass 9.09 Amps through them will cause more problems than passing 4.16 Amps.

chris_w_uk

You’re confused, and now you’re comparing apples with oranges.
1000Watts @ 240V - 1000/240 = 4.16 Amps
1000Watts @ 110V - 1000/110 = 9.09 AmpsMy point being if connections are not perfect trying to pass 9.09 Amps through them will cause more problems than passing 4.16 Amps.

@chris_w_uk. Sorry, but you just don’t know what you’re talking about. The component will draw the same current at 120VAC as it does at 240VAC. If the component draws 1,000 watts at 120VAC, it will draw half that wattage at 240VAC. You’re confusing voltage with current.

@hilde45,
Spot on

@cleeds
That would be assuming the identical piece of equipment being used at 110V and 240V, whereas the equipment would be built for the particular voltage being used, so both pieces of equipment would be different so they produce the same Wattage output. If an amplifier manufacturer builds a 100Watt amplifier and sells it in the UK and US they fit the appropriate power supply to feed the amp with what it needs to produce 100 Watts. They don't sell it with the same power supply in both countries as 100 Watt in one and 50 Watt in the other.

chris_w_uk

That would be assuming the identical piece of equipment being used at 110V and 240V, whereas the equipment would be built for the particular voltage being used, so both pieces of equipment would be different so they produce the same Wattage output.

You’re incredibly confused, and now you seem to be confusing line voltage with rated power output.

Here’s the simple truth, all other things being equal: Any appliance, given a specified current draw, will draw half the wattage at twice the voltage. (It goes without saying that its power supply would be correct for the voltage it’s supplied.) It doesn’t matter if you’re talking about an amplifier or a refrigerator.

Example: If we have an amplifier rated for 100 watt output and it draws 1,000 watts at 120VAC, then it will draw 500 watts at 240VAC. Of course, it's power transformer will need replacement or rewiring to accommodate the change in voltage. And of course the power cord will need to be changed to have the proper connector for the 240VAC service. But none of that changes the simple fact that changing the service voltage has no affect on current draw, which is watts x volts. And it will produce its rated output either way.

Cleeds I think you have it backwards, the wattage would be the same in either voltage, but the current draw would be twice as much at 120 volts as opposed to 240 volts. For  Example  10 amps × 120 volts=1200 watts 5amps×240 volts=1200 watts

@invalid +2

  P = I x E
P = Watts, Volt-amps.
I = Current, Amps.
E = Voltage.

Will a 240 volt 1500 watt space heater connected to a 240 volt source produce more heat than a 120 volt 1500 watt space heater connected to a 120 volt source? No.....
Current, amps?
P / E = ?
1500W / 120V = 12.5 amps.
1500W / 240V = 6.25 amps.

ditusa

Will a 240 volt 1500 watt space heater connected to a 240 volt source produce more heat than a 120 volt 1500 watt space heater connected to a 120 volt source? No.....
Current, amps?
P / E = ?
1500W / 120V = 12.5 amps.
1500W / 240V = 6.25 amps.

Correct!

@grannyring  +1.
I like the concept of this grounding unit. The alternative is to use one of the mega-expensive grounding boxes which create a star-ground in a mix of earth and minerals.

Be aware that the Puritan 156 has filters on every outlet and may not work well with power amps (and integrateds) because of "current-starving" under dynamic conditions. Also, the 156 uses gas discharge tubes for surge suppression. The problem here is that GDTs take several microseconds for the gas to ionize and let-through voltages in this interval can be very high.

IME, any power conditioner using filters to shun the AC noise and fluctuations is a compromise. Not only filters restrict dynamics, they also ‘color’ the sound of your system. Some may prefer this coloration (some may call it fine tuning of AC) but you’re not hearing what you’re system is truly capable of when it’s masked with such colorations.

The simplest and arguably the most effective way of AC power conditioning is by way of using a balanced isolation transformer for your system, where everything is plugged into such device, including your amps.

No loss in dynamics with two monster SS amplifiers used on the 156. No speculation here, but actual experience. One is a pure Class A 60/watts per channel by Clayton and the other the #8 Coda powerhouse amp. Both sounded better plugged into the 156. No loss in dynamics whatsoever.

These units do not limit current as advertised. 

Oh this post's title got me.  I kept ignoring it but finally read it.  I've heard a lot of power conditioners, as in literally heard them.  If the power coming into your house was dead clean, then adding almost any power conditioner would be detrimental to your sound.  I've only heard one power conditioner that improves the job of source equipment, helping power amps is what most aim for, but unfortunately this unit comes with a hefty price tag because it also has circuits for power amps.  I bought an Audioquest Niagara 7000 just for what it does for my source equipment and wasn't going to use it's AC outlets dedicated to power amps because I didn't want to risk my power amps influencing the power to my source equipment.  Before buying the 7000 I held out for a year hoping Audioquest would offer a stand alone version of the 7000's source equipment section without the power amp section, but sadly, it wasn't on their radar and I had AC issues with my source equipment that I wanted to be rid of so I bought the 7000.  And no, the model name isn't the price of the unit...It's much worse than that.  It cost me a couple grand more than the model number.  Ouch!!!  But it was actually cheaper than the quotes I received to rewire my house AC power for the audio system.  I did finally connect the amps to the 7000 despite my certainty that it would mess up the "source AC nirvana" that I had invested in.  I was wrong, I can't hear any difference with the amps connected directly to the wall outlets or through the Niagara 7000.  For that I was pleasantly surprised, but I still plan to feed the amps AC from their own dedicated power conditioners so I can crank it up.  So I am either going to buy each amp their own 7000 or anything I can find that sounds better than plugged straight into the wall.  I would like ones that sound better than no conditioner at all, but so far, besides the 7000, I've only found ones that sound worse than nothing at all.  I am very interested in this "Best kept secret in AC line filtering conditioning" but open to other suggestions.  I love my amps because they are so dynamic but that is also why they are such a total pain in the Ar$3.  They trip 15 amp breakers if I have them cranked up and a particularly loud track comes on.  They are ridiculously power hungry so I am sure that I will need 2 more Niagara 7000, a left channel and a right channel plugged into their own dedicated wall outlet, or maybe 2 of the " Best kept secret in AC line filtering conditioning" to keep up with their voracious appetites.  Any thoughts?

@thyce, if your 15 amp breakers are tripping then change them for ones with a different trip-curve. The breakers are thermomagnetic devices. The magnetic side will cause instantaneous trip like in a lightening strike, the thermo side will heat up and cause a bimetal strip to open-circuit the breaker. The trip-curve determines the time and amount of overcurrent allowed before tripping.

I don't know about regs in USA but maybe upgrading to 20/25A breakers with a slower trip will not only provide uninterrupted service but better dynamics too. Go as high as the house wiring or wiring regs will allow.

@cleeds, you not only have things backwards but upside down, back to front and inside out :)

You also state: " And of course the power cord will need to be changed to have the proper connector for the 240VAC service."

The IEC receptacle is an industry standard that is used for connection to the mains regardless of countries' voltage. Think about a device that has the ability to be used on either 110V or 230V by internally connecting the transformer primaries in series (230V) or parallel (110V)  do you find two different IEC connectors on the back panel???

@thyce  Thing seem to be quite different in the US to the UK this is a typical UK consumer unit with the usual value breakers for a there bedroom house. https://cursorium.co.uk/uploads/consumer_unit.jpg

lemonhaze

@cleeds ... You also state: " And of course the power cord will need to be changed to have the proper connector for the 240VAC service."
The IEC receptacle is an industry standard that is used for connection to the mains regardless of countries’ voltage. Think about a device that has the ability to be used on either 110V or 230V by internally connecting the transformer primaries in series (230V) or parallel (110V) do you find two different IEC connectors on the back panel???

Hey @lemonhaze: Think about your typical power cord. You’ll note it has a connector at each end of the cord. One end goes into the wall for AC power. Connectors for 240VAC supply are different than connectors for 120VAC supply. That is why I stated that the cord will need to be changed to have the proper connector.

@lemonhaze,
I concur

I have been curious about getting a power conditioner, but am leaning towards PS Audio's approach and getting one of their re-generators. It would seem to me that it would result in cleaner power. Any thoughts? My dealer is really excited about the puritan stuff too.

cleeds, fair enough. So it’s not the power cord that needs to be changed but just the connector that plugs into the wall? I have lived in countries that use one voltage only. South Africa, UK and now Ireland which are all +/_ 230V

The potatoes are not the same, British and Irish spuds taste terrible!

@hilde45    

"JImmy agrees."
Never trust people that have facial tattoos or people that speak about themselves in the third person.    

Unless, of course, pomposity is a quality that you admire.

I recently got the Puritan 136 and was curious as to why there seemed to be a larger price discrepancy than the difference in currency values calculate to. I sent an email to Puritan, which was answered quickly by the owner of the company who explained that the boxes are designed and built differently in the US vs. UK because of the voltage requirement.

They come with a nice power cord that has special prongs plugging into the unit. 

I replaced a Furman elite 15 as the plugs never seemed to lock in to my liking and the way the Puritan does it is unique (on an angle) and it is solidly built, looks very clean and is tight in the back (no pun intended) when you plug in the cords. I also wanted a silver face plate which Puritan will swap for you (instead of my old Furman brown like NAD boxes). I got a really good trade in for my Furman so I took the plunge.

Because they say the sound improves with break in over a few weeks. it is hard to tell how much improvement I am hearing, because it is gradual. On initial plug in, I thought it sounded a little better, but nothing earthshaking. I don't regret the upgrade, but I think it is a much more noticeable improvement if you have no PC than if you upgrade from a decent one.

My stereo is in a circuit with nothing else on it, and the power is pretty clean in general, so the amount of noise needed to be filtered is probably less than for most people. The less noise the better, just like when you filter water from the public utility, the less contaminants the better.

I don’t spend a dime on power conditioning. I paid an electrician to install 8 direct connections from my room to the junction box. That was good enough, and I have zero sound issues. To me this is like power and speaker cables - Snake oil.

No, it is science. Your "solution" made things worse.  

Electromagnetic radiation is everywhere. Radio, cell phones, WiFi, all of it and more. When radio waves cross a wire they induce a current in the wire. This is in fact how an antenna works. All your devices have them. Every wire then is an antenna.  

What you did is instead of having just one antenna bringing RFI into your system you now have 8. The reason it sounds fine to you is because you never bothered to compare.  

Probably you are convinced this noise is something you can hear, like hiss or hum. It is not. RFI is radio frequency, a lot of it megahertz. Millions of cycles per second. You cannot hear millions of cycles per second. But this noise is there, it can be seen on a scope riding on the 60 Hz AC, and it can and does make it all the way through power supplies and into the music signal.  

Still you do not hear it as discernable noise. It is not like hiss or ticks or pops or anything you can point your finger at and say wow I need to do something about this noise.  

It manifests instead as a layer of grain or glare, a graying of the background, an indistinct quality around images. It makes the sound stage flat and narrow. When removed the background goes black, images float more distinct and dimensional, and everything sounds much more liquid and natural.  

There is even a simple test you can do to hear this for yourself. Don't cost nothing. Takes only a few minutes. Leave your system on long enough to be properly warmed up. Listen to your favorite tune. Go and flip off all the circuit breakers except for what is needed for your system. Listen again. The huge improvement in liquidity and everything else as described above is due to breaking the connection with all those circuit wire antennas.  

Not snake oil. Science.