Nice.. I'm still enjoying mine... No regrets.. Glad you like yours.. I think I can use an upgrade in the amp department now.. : ) Expensive hobby..
Best balanced linestage/preamp for $4000 or less ???
Hey all !! So I need some help with choosing a preamp, preferably tube, that's a true balance design in and out.. For a 2.1 speaker system.. Need a sub so it'll have to have dual outputs running in parallel if that's the right term to use.. It'll have to have single ended inputs and outputs also.. I use an Oppo205 (Modwright) in the front end for everything digital coming in, movies and music.. But I do my critical listening with music so I use the modded portion of the 205 for that (balance output) and for movies/tv want to use the unmodded single ended outputs..
I have a Classe CA2200 amp and Salk bookshelf speakers and a sub (single ended input)..
I know BAT is out there.. VK31se I'm looking at and some older Audio Research but read them are unreliable.. Anything else anyone else have some experience with ? Will take your opinions seriously as that's how I chose my current equipment... thanks
I know there's some good stuff single ended but I really want a well balance system through out with my music listening..
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Oem-wheels—thanks for the update, I’ll order the Parasound JC2 BP today. I tried RCA passive resistors last night and it was dead quiet but I felt the dynamics dropped off in the bottom octaves. The passive resistors were $500 each 20 years ago and use Vishay or similar quality resistors and were the rage for tweakers. |
OEM wheels—I have the ModWright 205, a Plinius SA-100 modded and updated, and I’m looking for a preamplifier that sounds as good as it better than running the Amplifier from the XLR oppo outputs. The problem with the Oppo into the Pilinius is I can only go to 30-40 and then it’s too loud. I am afraid of missing bits of information. How does the JC2 sound compared to just the Oppo running the amplifier? I’m mainly interested in 3D soundstage and great imaging, and a dead quiet sound floor. I also have the Benchmark 100 watt amplifier—which is dead quiet too. |
oem, I expect you'll be very happy In the past I have had all tube systems cryoed tubes, all kit differentially balanced. zzwhen you get up into JC 2 territory, I think the differences are slight, but no tubes to worry over, or wait to warm up, or have to turn off... It seems a lot of powered sub inputs have not taken output into proper consideration Also Class D amplifier chipsets have advanced significantly, but I doubt many powered sub manufacturers are using newest tech If i do it over I will get passive subs and power with outboard amp/s, or maybe a passive integrated |
My Freya is quiet even with the stock tubes (I looked pretty hard for the much feared microphony in those...none was to be found, and no hum or hiss in my well sorted rig), and they now offer new Tung Sols as a factory option as well as the SS tube substitues that, to me anyway, make no sense...some have whined about tube microphonics with these but I apparently dodged that bullet...I'm using NOS Sylvania "Chrome domes" now but the Tung Sols were fine. The Freya is simply a great sounding preamp (I use it with a Dennis Had SEP) that serves to shame many others out there at multiples its cost, with 3 modes for listening, balanced ins and outs, remote, and that silly price. |
handyman, you are right.. and so is tweak1 about 2 weeks make a difference.. After taking in all the suggestions and read the reviews , made phone calls , etc... I bought the Parasound JC2-BP.. I know, I'm sorry.. I wanted tube.. The tube stuff that seemed to fit the bill of what I wanted it to do was out of my price range.. And some that seemed reachable there was question marks, either in the multiple reviews or when I called them to talk to them directly.. Example, one of the first question is "will this be able to drive my 100kohm amp and a 30kohm sub at the same time ? " I'd get a pause before the answer and they all said yes.. But to me it sounded like " yes, but... " It seems as though I'm the only one trying a add a sub to the system the way I want to do it.... Anyway I mentioned the Wyred4Sound STP-SE2.. I called them and without hesitation they said it can be done.. So it swung me to rethink about solid state.. And there's 2 right off the bat that was in my price range.. STP-SE2 and the JC2-BP.. 2 phone calls later I pulled the trigger on the JC … I want to thank everyone for their help.. I hope nobody is pissed at me.. I learned a lot.. Now I'll be looking for a new smaller musical sub that's easy to drive.. |
what a difference 2 weeks makes. I am in the process of reacquainting myself with newest passives Wish i could afford the best Tortuga ($2700), which appears to be all anyone could want in a preamp. Had I investigated them further I would have gotten one of their ~ $1000 models, as I purchased a Hattor XLR from AGon customer. That said I am excited to receive it, hopefully by Friday |
Oem_wheels: Sounds like u made up your mind. Wanted to edit my previous post. The Calypso does not have the demagnetizer. That's my Rhea that does. Very kind of everyone to not point out my error. The Calypso does have tape monitor rca outputs for your sub. I use a remote controlled preamp for sub volume control. I've seen the Calypso for sale on this site for around $2200. U can do some tune rolling to adjust your sound. |
My dream for several years was to get a Parasound JC 2, but @ 4K it is out of my foreseeable budget. I was reading a passive preamp thread, which moved me to use the XLR outs from my Oppo 105 direct to my amps. fortunately, no impedance issues and wow, the noise floor dropped off a cliff. The only negative is any volume lower han full on seems to cause bit loss, BUT, now I am exploring passive pres. I went through a bunch of them over a decade ago, but like everything else, the tech has improved. If I had $2700 I would buy the Troubador Passive preamp, It appears to be SOTA , but not in my current budget, so I found a Hattor passive on AudioGon and swooped it up. My hope is by plugging the 105 into it, and opening th 105 volume control,l wide open and use the passive pre VC to better control volume. Hope to have it by Saturday, then a few days to acquaint myself with its functions and listen to some music |
Oem-wheels. Yours is a rational approach. I suggested the Atma-sphere MP-3 earlier in this thread as I believe that it's a top quality preamplifier that would serve you well. Certainly in your stated budget range there are numerous very good options available. Patience is a good asset and will allow you to make a wise long term decision. . Charles |
ok guys... thanks for taking the time in helping me out.. from all mentioned there's 3 that seems like fits my taste.. 1 of them hasn't been mentioned here, found by mistake.. Atmosphere, Rogue (thanks ggc), and Wyred 4 Sound's STP-SE level 2 (one that wasn't mentioned).. Called Atmosphere for more info and found that it would cost me about $1500 more than my current budget.. Rogue's latest is about the same price for their top of line.. Talked to them too and they said the latest preamp would work better for me than the one being sold used on Agon.. The STP-SE found a very nice review on 10 Audio.. He liked it so much that he said he bought it.. I know its not tubed but still even with all the upgrades its still under my budget.. And it can do what I need it to do very well.. Right now I have my modded Oppo205 hooked directly to my amp and it sounds very nice in 2 channel.. But I still like to have a preamp to switch sources, add a sub, volume control, balance.. I said screw it couple days ago and almost bought an Audio Research 27.. the guy assured me it can drive my amp and sub.. made an offer $100 less than he was willing accept so it stalled.. After more research I found out that Audio Research doesn't recommend anything lower than 25k ohms to pair with this pre.. close one |
Atmasphere - do manuals generally indicate if the equipment meets the AES 48 standard? oem-wheels - in similar discussions two other pre-amps are mentioned - don Sachs ($2500 new) and cary sl-05 (~$3100 used). No idea how these stack up against those mentioned above, but I am doing a similar search and keep coming back to these, but now have more to look into! |
Hi oem-wheels, There are several good recommendations here. I will give one more Rouge Audio Hera 2 - Hands down the best preamplifier I have heard for the money. Bests other brands, some listed in this post, that cost 3-4 times more. Frequency response is 1hz - 300khz. The sound stage is truly holographic. Rogue Audio discontinued the line due to production costs associated with the level of detail involved with the design, but still services them should anything happen. I am not a rep, nor affiliated with the company. I am an Audiophile that appreciates great craftsmanship especially at reasonable prices. Good Luck There is one currently listed on Agon. https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8ii1a-rogue-audio-hera-two-piece-preamplifier-tube |
I hate say it, but i think igot you all beat. I picked up a used aesthetic Callisto pre eclipse for $4200. Dual balanced, excellent volume control (for each side), dual outs for the sub and separate chassis for the power supply. Now the extra chassis can be a pain if you dont have room in your rack, but the detail and huge soundstage is worth it. Also, a used Asthetix Janus signature can be found for around the same price, the only issues would be dual volum control on the Callisto level. happy listening! |
Not to throw a wrench in this because I'm sure you'll be thrilled with an MP-3, but since your sub ain't all that anyway what about going for a sub that uses speaker-level inputs ( Rel, Hsu, etc.). I think your amp has a second pair of output terminals and it would open up options for other preamps. Anyway... |
Freya has issues. I’d stay away. The only thing it has going for it is price. I bought one with a Vidar and it was plagued with microphonics and I, like many, had to place heavy items on the case to stop it from ringing.gochurchgo - Is it possible the microphonics you encountered were due to noisy tubes? The stock set supplied by Schiit with my unit were noisy and very sensitive. Replaced them and NO microphonics...no noise of any sort with volume full up and nothing playing. Tap on the case...nada. From my own sample set of n = 1, I don’t think the Freya "has issues" other than 6SN7s can be noisy; hence the advice to be prepared to replace them. Noisy 6SN7s does seem well-documented. Buy tubes from Brent Jesse and he’ll test them for noise before shipping. To the OP, for a larger user base and broader range of experiences, check out the thread here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-freya-impressions-and-tube-rolling-thread.832177/page-100 I’m sure you’ll find a few users that did encounter microphonics and tube noise. You do have a money back (less 5%) return window. Schiit customer service was very responsive and quick supplying a return label for the bad tubes and new tubes when I needed them. New tubes shipped as soon as they got notification the old tubes had been picked up by FedEx. OK. That’s it for me. Don’t feel like being whacked by E-dith Prickley’s fanboy shtick. |
A useful thing to check for when looking into balanced preamps is whether they support the balanced standard (also known as Audio Engineering Society file 48). The reason to support this standard is to eliminate the sonic artifacts of the interconnect cables that will otherwise occur. If you've ever had to audition cables and maybe paid extra to get the one that sounded right in your system you know what I'm talking about. Imagine a system where all cables sounded as good as the best you've heard regardless of price; that is what the balanced standard is all about. Here is the standard, in a nutshell: Pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is non-inverting (in the US) and pin 3 of the XLR is inverting (in the US; in Europe these two are reversed). Ground is ignored- no signal return currents are conducted in the shield; the shield is for shielding only! This is the area where most high end audio preamps have problems and is why you hear so much variance in conversations about whether balanced is better or not. The output of the balanced source is low impedance. To this end, it should be able to drive 2000 ohms without loss of bass or increased distortion. The lowest input impedance of solid state amps tends to be 10,000 ohms and 100,000 ohms is common with many tube amps so you might think this unnecessary . But this low output impedance is important if cable immunity is to be maintained. |
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SST Ambrosia 2000 can be had for $3000 to $3500 previously enjoyed. I encourage you to read ANY and EVERY review, you won't find anything but wonderful. Here is a few cut outs: The Ambrosia is a sensation at any price point. Here is a full function preamplifier complete with MM and MC phono capability that for me bridges the sonic gap between solid-state and tube designs. If you already own a tube or hybrid amp, the Ambrosia should prove most complementary. Competitive with the best money can buy. Dick Olsher, Enjoy The Music “I shall not be coy when it comes to the performance of the Ambrosia and the Ampzilla 2000: These are, simply, great components. I’ve never heard better electronics in any system of mine with which I’ve had long familiarity, while the shortest of short lists would be sufficient to contain the few that seem to me in the same league.” — Paul Seydor, The Absolute Sound |
I was going to suggest a used Atma-Sphere MP-3, as Charles did, except that I’m pretty certain it only provides a single pair of XLR outputs, and no RCA outputs, at least in its standard configuration. If you can find one that you would want to consider, though, a call or email to Ralph Karsten at Atma-Sphere would be in order, to see if he could modify it to meet your requirements.@almarg , @oem-wheels , the Atma-Sphere MP-3 is stock with dual outputs. Older units might have single outputs (dual outputs were optional), but extra outputs can be added inexpensively. |
@almarg well don't laugh but its a Paradigm Monitor 8 .. Been meaning to upgrade it but been other things first.. Its not bad though is why I keep putting it on the back burner.. Applied the PBK to it.. I checked the specs after I read your 1st post and can't find the impedance anywhere - manual, online, Paradigm website.. BAT makes transformer coupled output with both XLR and single ended.. But after the "false" claims BAT posted on its impedance I think need to look elsewhere.. I think the MP-3 its going to be and find a sub with XLR input |
