Basic switch....should I upgrade?

@lalitk T H A N K S... reading away. I think at this point my whee noggin has crossed the rubicon. Madness takes it toll. Have exact change.

@wsrrsw

I’m aware of latest offerings (Muon filter and Rubicon Ethernet switch) from NA albeit at higher price point. You may try EE8 and see if it’s worth the improvements in your system. You can read up on Muon and Rubicon switch here,

@lalitk Network Acoustics now has the muon Streaming System But to use roon and the hard drive I would need a switch. English Electric 8Switch seems to be an excellent choice. Trying to decide if the included power best option. They say not to use linear power with the unit.

A lot more here on the Muon

“Less of a chain (wires, power et all) to me makes sense.”

That’s why I’ve been recommending trying Network Acoustics ENO passive filter. It is probably the most effective noise filtering device without the ‘extra’ baggage (LPS, clocks, Ethernet switch, fiber converters and so on).

@wsrrsw ok. So you need one Ethernet to Roon core and one to streamer. I thought EtherREGEN can split one in to two outs. So I fail to see why fibre optic is necessary in this chain at all.
One more thing…I tested and didn’t care for the iFi power supply on d-link switch. I returned the iFi. I also returned the FMCs.
I just ended up with EERO to NA Eno Streaming System to Lumin U1 Mini. No further plans to touch or “enhance” this chain.
This is the best sounding combination. But…it is system/ears/brain//OCD driven and dependent so yeah I get it….

I don’t think stacking switches is a great idea. I would just recommend running one EtherREGEN with a good cable on a dirty side and the best possible cable you can get your hands on for the clean side going into your streamer. Also try grounding the switch/EtherREGEN. 

i agree with this ^ ^ ^

@fredrik222 Think you mean Ethernet is more than SFP? 

I seem to be flip flopping over SFP verses Ethernet cable. Ever time I switch I’m happy (no telling my wife….I’ve been laying ground work for other goodies)

Less of a chain (wires, power et all) to me makes sense. YMMV. 

@wsrrsw going to and from optical involves signal conversion. While I subscribe to that you should not be able to hear any difference from an audiophile switch compared to an enterprise switch, similarly if everything works ok, you shouldn’t notice any difference from optical transmission​​​​​​, I am sure someone is going to argue that moving from/to optical degrades the signal. 
 

personally, I have to fibers run to my detached garage due to the length of the run from my switches, but no audiophile grade stuff in the garage, just a SVS prime and some B&W speakers for workouts. Fiber is expensive however, at least 10 times more.

@audphile1" I don’t think stacking switches is a great idea." Agree but no can do if using the optical cable. Here’s the current setup and below the EtherREGEN words to the wise (who can read). So if optical, then two switches....jesh I’m flummoxed. @fredrik222 Thoughts?

@anzaanimalclinic Can you please post a snap(s) of your three switch setup?

On Page 6 of the EtherRegen Manual "

"Since it is preferred that your audio endpoint (DAC-attached streamer/renderer) be alone on one side of the moat, users who connect an optical endpoint should avoidconnecting any other devices to the other ’A’-side ports (the four RJ45 copper ports)"

I have 3 switches and each brought an improvement 

I found fiber sullied the sound but I think I used copper on my etherregen at the same time so maybe that was the issue

I found using a Mutec external clock on the Etherregen and SOTM switches made a drastic improvement as did upgraded power supplies

More is better

I don’t think stacking switches is a great idea. I would just recommend running one EtherREGEN with a good cable on a dirty side and the best possible cable you can get your hands on for the clean side going into your streamer. Also try grounding the switch/EtherREGEN. 

@classdstreamer Last stop is steamer. The nice man @ EtherREGEN who’s name I currently can’t conjure was very helpful/patient when I got my unit. One cardinal rule of use he told me that if using fiber only to come in one side with Ethernet cable and out the other with the fiber optic. Nothing else in or out. Did that. But that made it a one port unit.
Now with Ethernet cable all round I can also run to the Roon server and a hard drive.
http://open.qobuz.com/playlist/3511772 Qobuz system test playlist is what I use

I think it sounds just as good or a tad better than the fiber optic. The Cable from EtherREGEN is tiptop. With the Ethernet cable I think the sound has more air and with the fiber optic less. If that groks?

if you are calling my 20+ years of enterprise networking experience is lack of experience, what experience do you have?

nothing to do with audio. Nobody is questioning your network skills. You are likely good at it 😉

@wsrrsw If you’re running fiber from the EtherRegen into the streamer, my thinking (and hope) is that nothing upstream from the fiber cable, including EtherRegen, affects the sound, as long as you’re not losing data. Have you found that network components upstream from a fiber connection affect the sound quality?

Since I installed my fiber line, I haven’t played with components upstream from said fiber line.

Just tried something. Instead of what amounts to using two switches I went to one.

Took the Dlink away and plugged in Ethernet cable from wall into EtherRegen. This only required no longer using the fiber optic cable and running a Ethernet cable into steamer. Do I hear a difference. Think maybe a tad.

I converted an older Cisco router into a switch years ago when I was feeling thrifty. Cisco quality parts and a new life for an old router

@curiousjim We had 2 Megs DSL back a few years. No streaming then. Now high end streaming is a lot of fun. I’m nostalgic about 33&1/3 but that’s not a deep pang. 

@wsrrsw 

StarLink is incredible technology! I am so happy it is working so well for you! And thanks for your reply.  My last house was wired to the hilt with internet and cable, but sadly, this one is not.

All the best.

JD

@curiousjim

In a closet away from stereo I have a StartLink modem feeding a ubiquity router that feeds via in wall cat 5 to several switches elsewhere in house. D Link switch for stereo will be gone.
l have tried direct into steamer and into steamer using the EtherRegen. The EtherRegen definitely better.   

@wsrrsw 

I am slightly cornfused. My internet comes into the house and goes to the Spectrum modem, then to a Netgear router. Are you not using a router and going straight to a network switch, or am I missing something? 

Thanks.

JD

@steakster if you are calling my 20+ years of enterprise networking experience is lack of experience, what experience do you have?

Audiosciencereview doesn‘t listen, measures the wrong things and is frightfully opinionated

+1

The best way to demonstrate lack of experience - and lack of understanding of audio component synergy - on an audiophile forum is to cite ASR. It’s like reading a book written by an actuary on how to have a relationship.

@wsrrsw you should always have security. Too much shit going on to trust your network provider to catch all. 

@fredrik222

I’m in the sticks using StarLink to get robust internet. I’m all over a real switch but do you think a firewall too would, in my application, be needed?

I sure appreciate your (and all you other folks too) help and insights.

@antigrunge2 he is 100% correct in his review of these products, because you can measure them, and actual network switch performance metrics are not listed on these websites. They are, 100% snake oil. 
 

@wsrrsw i’m in it security, but I have 20+ years of network experience. 
 

I use juniper ex2200-c, with check point 1550 firewall, and extreme networks 801.11ax wifi. Cat6a cabling, newly redone. 
my streamer / server is NAD M50.2, AES/EBU to Classe Delta Pre, and Classe Delta Stereo power amp driving Audiovector R3 Arrete. 

@fredrik222 

B I N G O

“What is clear is that you can’t plug use a bad switch, and then add another device to clean up the bad switch output. That’s not how things work in networking”

Might I ask what your day job is? I’m guessing something in the sphere of  ones and zeros. Also do you stream and if so what’s your setup to the streamer?

Audiosciencereview doesn‘t listen, measures the wrong things and is frightfully opinionated

@duckworp The Cisco 2960 is a low end enterprise grade switch. Very very few home users will ever be able to push it to where it will be remotely a concern for streaming. 
 

@ghdprentice depends on how bad the switch is. D Link are among the worst consumer equipment out there, so there is a real possibility that the streamer chache and tcp/ip can’t cover for it.

What is clear is that you can’t plug use a bad switch, and then add another device to clean up the bad switch output. That’s not how things work in networking. 
 

Also, Audio Science Review have some thoughts on this topic too.

The Cisco 2960 is a fantastic bargain second hand. It is a brilliantly made switch, made in the millions. Despite huge production runs the switch is expensive  new as it is so well made. Compare that to audio switches which are made in the thousands and you can see that the quality of a Cisco is up there with the best audio switches.  I have tested a few switches and the Cisco at $50 on eBay is as good as any.
The other great thing about the Cisco is that it has an optical input/output. You may find you get a better result if you run optical from this switch to the etherregen and then take ethernet from the cleaned and isolated single ethernet ‘out’ to the streamer/bridge.  This is how the etherregen is intended to be used as the single output from its ‘B’ side gives unparalleled clean ethernet to the streamer.  Or, if you are running optical into your streamer/bridge you will probably find that an optical out from the Cisco switch straight into the streamer, therefore bypassing the etherregen, will be just as good since optical fibre is the cleanest of cleanest connections  

Bought a cheap switch Cisco SG110D-08 on EBay UK.

Getting a clock installed for this by fidelityaudio.co.uk

Sent to me (not in the UK).

Way cheaper than any other option I could see for an audiophile switch.

Also bought a Cisco 2960 and was upgraded by audiophool.nl

Since you have an etherregen: get an ocxo clock (AfterDark, Mutec, Cybershaft or other) You can start with a $100 Chinese clock on aliexpress and the upgrade if worthwhile. I also found dxe filters on the ethernet beneficial. Make sure the Etherregen has a strong ground connection from its post.

I have router to D Link switch with RJ45 to optical isolator with fiber converter via fiber optic to fiber converter on EtherRegen input out, via ViaBlue RJ45, into Auralic G2 streamer.  

This is the optical isolator(fiber media converter).

Gigabit Ethernet Multi-Mode LC Fiber Media Converter (SFP SX Transceiver Included), up to 550M, 10/100/1000Base-Tx to 1000Base-SX https://a.co/d/e6VoowN

@audphile1 KISS got ‘cha. Thx for the six part test.
@twoleftears The rundown is as follows.
Wall Ethernet into D link switch.
Out of Dlink switch short audio grade ethernet into EtherREGEN & short run to Roon nucleus.

Also into EtherRegen aduio grade Ethernet  cable from clock.

Out of etherRegen fiber optic to streamer.

@ghdprentice definitely. What we’re trying to achieve is minimize electrical noise in the analog signal that carries digital information via copper Ethernet. Buffering in streamers helps with the digital part of it while noise is noise. Higher end streamers supposedly deal with both aspects. Also if a streamer has optical input, going over fibre optic cable eliminates electrical noise. But..there’s just no easy way out…

@fredrik222 

I get where you are coming from, but a good streamer will cashe and isolate from the switch… TCPIP will provide replacement packets, basically making up for the switches deficiencies. 

See my take and updates on different configs I had just tested (including Network Acoustics Eno Streaming System, D Link switch and basic FMC) in my post here

@wsrrsw the angel n8 doesn’t have any actual switch performance metrics, so pretty hard to tell. Switch performance metrics include things like forwarding plane through put, switching method, over subscription rate, buffer size, etc. 

Please provide a running count of all the different boxes (components and power supplies) and bits of different types of wire that reside between the cable outlet on the wall and the preamp.

@fredrik222 Did you glance at specs for the Angel Boom? That’s not in my wheelhouse.

@sns (Nice System!!!) The EtherREGEN has a fiber optic out and I want to use that as I’m certain using the EtherREGEN is a definite improvement. But like my hard to suss question will a switch in front of that also matter? Most likely yes.

@wsrrsw  I highly doubt you will find a 5 port enterprise switch, but you can probably find 8 and definitely 12. 
 

In theory, cleaner power improves poor circuitry more than good circuitry, as good circuitry is made to operate with a much more narrow acceptable performance range and higher performance threshold, regardless of the input. Is audible however, maybe? 

If you want really clean, most enterprise network equipment can be made to order with DC input. 

Many different takes on switches continues. I agree, lps on present switch is good way to go.

In my case, not convinced of using any switch, Netgear router with lps better than audiophile switch, or any switch for me. I recently went FMC route between router and server, nice, better than the switch in same position. Acoustic Network Muon filter will be compared to FMC in this position soon.

In any case, can't hurt trying everything and reporting back, adds to knowledge base.

Clear as mud as my Dad used to say. No I got this.

Thanks all.

So far my take away is defiantly cleanup power into the switch and a better switch could/should (????) help. A better switch would require finding out the voltage needed to power the unit.

@lalitk I just picked a random TT. Beauty is the the eye of the beholder.

@fredrik222 I’m trying to find a five port (need three) enterprise switch... none so far. The Silent Angel Bonn N8 - TCXO Audiophile Ethernet Network Switch @fastfreight uses to my reading of the specs look very good and it uses a 5V source too. Thoughts?

About a TT when we moved...you can guess the rest.

Clean it all up. Yes!

If your streamer looks just as exquisite as this TT then by all means skip the TT 😊 Back to your query, I don’t think changing out switch before EtherREGEN would yield much improvement. I do like the suggestion of upgrading to iFI 5V power supply on your existing D-Link switch.

Definitely get a TT. I mean look at that thing!