Everything I’ve read from reviews to actual user/owner experience say this is a true game-changer experience. I’m actually afraid to try it for fear of being wrecked forever. It’s also available for headphones that also seems to provide a mind-blowing experience. This one seems legit — if you dare.
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Acoustic articles are not a "fad"... All Dr. Choueiri research and Filters are PURE acoustic... It takes few minutes to verify... It is not a "tweak" nor a new upgrade...There is no degradation of the TIMBRE experience and it is scientifically explained WHY this is so...It is not a new complexities level added, it is a new acoustic experience better than anything before it... Dont trust me read not the reviewers only but Dr. Choueiri papers... It is complete acoustic improvement UNIVERSALLY acclaimed... Anyway it is for me in my actual journey the only REAL upgrade not a marginal upgrade or a mere change...As most costly dac upgrade for example...
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By the way there is no "true" stereo...😁 This true stereo concept had no meaning in acoustic save if we use this expression to characterise many speakers system of home theater compared to it... There is acoustic day to day TRUE experience of sound and music , and there is recording always defective or imperfect reproduction through headphone or 2 speakers or many speakers for specific reasons in each case in acoustic.. Dr. Choueiri explain it way better than me...
To start the understanding read this article it is simple to read : «In 2014, Choueiri founded Theoretica Applied Physics to manufacture and market audiophile-caliber components incorporating his patented innovations. There’s a problem, Choueiri and many others maintain, with the way that stereo recordings have been played back for the last 70 years or so. “If you go out in the forest and you hear a bird singing, it’s not because there are two birds singing,” Choueiri explained with his characteristic intensity. “There’s one bird singing.” Stereo only creates the illusion of localized sound by manufacturing a phantom image “and your brain doesn’t believe it.” In life, a sound is precisely localized because of a slight difference in the arrival time at the right and left ears, as well as slight differences in amplitude and tonality that are attributable to the physical presence of the listener’s head and the shape of his or her ears. With reproduced sounds emanating from two loudspeakers, these relationships are considerably degraded, especially if the listening environment introduces reflections. Each ear isn’t hearing what it’s supposed to—inter-aural crosstalk is spoiling the party.» https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/theoretica-applied-physics-bacch-sp-adio-stereo-purifier/
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It's not a new fad. Ralph Glasgal has been promoting DSP crosstalk reduction for a long time. Polk, Carver, Lexicon and others have tried to tackle the crosstalk problem over the years using analog methods. It's a real problem, a real shortcoming of 2 speaker stereo reproduction. It's not intentional or desirable in any way, although some may develop a taste for it. 2 speakers is the simplest stereo possible and it beats mono, so that's why it became a standard. It has nothing to do with any inherent audio superiority, although with crosstalk reduction it can get so good on properly made recordings that it's harder to argue the need for multi-channel formats. Still, I think well done up-mixing of stereo recordings to 5 or 7 speakers located across the front of the listening area has some great upside potential, especially for creating a huge sweet spot. Purpose made recordings for this kind of setup would even be better, but that's not likely to happen. Adding crosstalk to headphones may make some sense, but ideally you would not want to do it with the same time delay that happens across your head with stereo speakers. If you do so, you'll introduce massive comb filtering to the signal for center panned sounds, just like speakers do to your ears. Now that I say that, I can think of a way to add time delay without causing comb filtering to center panned sounds - I think I'll have to try that! I've not tried the BACCH DSP yet, but I'll vouch for crosstalk reduction. From the reviews I've read of BACCH it sounds similar to my own experiences with using a physical divider or my own, not so powerful channel mixing methods. The timbre of center panned sounds is very nicely improved, as is the overall sense of acoustic space. It matters more on some recordings than others. I never heard anything that sounded worse because of it, although I'm just reducing crosstalk, not creating the extreme degree of left right separation that BACCH DSP can. |
Bob Carver got into this, as did Polk to some extent. Neither really caused a great deal of market shift and the efforts were mostly forgotten. I did some math, and something like 65 dB of separation is equivalent to about 1,800x the voltage. Doesn’t seem like you can really hear better. What I really need is a way of encoding 96kHz/24 bit signals into 44/16 in order to avoid upgrading my dial up modem when streaming music. 🤣 |
It is not a dac, or an amp. or speakers with a sound of their own ... BACCH filters can be coupled with any DAC... Even my low cost marvellous one...😊 It is not a component which we evaluate comparing it to another similar component in a review...There is nothing else to compare it anyway... I did not recommend it as a component.... I recommend it as an acoustic revolution because they are filters which can be coupled with ANY SYSTEM peculiar original sound qualities without modifiying them nor modifying the timbre as perceived through your stereo system but increasing each acoustic recording 3-D spatial perception... There is nothing else to compare... It is not a dac nor a component but a spatial acoustic catalyser acting without degrading nor the timbre nor the specific swound qualities of your system ...It work only with specific measure of your room and inner ears and head position peculiarities which must be measured for each customer... There is many articles of Choueiri and youtube interviews, nevermind the reviews...Then you will understand without even the need to listen to it WHY it is an acoustic revolution... Then all reviews will make sense... It is not an audio gimmick or the marketing of a new components as they are plenty new one each months with positive reviews, it is practical applied acoustics ... I signal the existence of this acoustic revolution here because i read about it and listen Choueiri acoustic explanation...I never recommended to people here to upgrade their components and throw money on upgrade components, i ALWAYS advised people to EMBED FIRST rightfully what they already own electrically, acoustically and mechanically... I dont reviewed components to sell them ... I reviewed here my reading about an acoustic revolution... Inform yourself , it is what i spoke about mentioning Choueiri as a genius in acoustic... We must read the man not the reviewers First and last..
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It sounds like a glorified DSP system. Subject to all kinds of tweaking. Has anyone seen the interface? Seems installation would be somewhat problematic. Dsp interfaces are notoriously annoying to deal with. I don’t feel like sitting down with the laptop every time I sit down to listen to music. Every single piece of music is different, so this means you got a tweak every single piece of music. Of course if you tweak one piece of music, you’ll be tempted to tweak things for another piece of music not sounding as good. It all gets back to quality of recording which varies substantially. If you have a really good system these differences and sound quality are less of a problem. Quality amplifier, preamplifier, streamer of course speakers. If your system needs to improve, I'd spend the money on a better quality piece of equipment rather than this dsp System. |
Incredible... It is evident you had read nothing and describe not what are the BACCH filters... You describe the BACCH filters as a mere other dsp among others without even knowing what they do... Before speaking READ... Does this site and science articles of Choueiri lab appear marketing to you? READ...
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You’re so far off base it’s downright silly and you’re now embarrassing yourself. Maybe go read something about this rather than throwing out ridiculous and totally ignorant statements. |
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It's dsp. It takes a system and modifies the heck out of the sound. It's a massive coloring project. It's a system designed to improve upon existing system components. And enhancing the qualities so it seems pleasant and desirable. If this was so revolutionary, more people would be aware of it. Why is this? Does anybody even have the system? |
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No, it’s more just your problem. As others have stated here this is clearly not just “marketing stuff” from Princeton. You clearly don’t have the capacity to understand it but for some reason seem intent on disparaging it — why I have no idea. You have no idea what you’re talking about and have done not even the most basic research on the technology, so your opinions and credibility here are precisely zero. From Andrew Quint’s review of the BACCH system…
But, maybe you know better based on — nothing.
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https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/theoretica-applied-physics-bacch-sp-adio-stereo-purifier/
Listening to music played with the BACCH-SP adio for six weeks can only be described as revelatory, in the sense that I heard a domestic two-channel system—mine—do things I’d never heard before in any setting. Two observations should be made at the start. First, as promised, the BACCH XTC filter introduced no colorations or timbral distortions to the reproduced sound. Instantaneous comparisons of filter/no filter are readily accomplished with the BACCH app on the iPad; it’s easy to toggle back and forth between the bin your filter is in and “Bypass.” The crosstalk-cancellation process is utterly transparent. Secondly, whoever did design the DAC (and ADC) for Theoretica did a helluva job. I heard no meaningful difference in the overall sound of my system when using the $47k Ideon or the BACCH-SP. Getting the model with the DAC (and ADC) requires an additional expenditure of $4000. Sounds like a bargain to me. What does the BACCH-SP XTC filter bring to the table, sonically? The processor renders several aspects of spatiality very effectively, some of which I’ve experienced only rarely in the past with the most elite systems, if I’ve heard them at all. One is envelopment. The sonic image moved out in front of the two speakers and wrapped around the sides to end up well out into the room, outside the lateral boundaries of the Magicos. On a Chesky Records binaural recording featuring trombonist Wycliff Gordon (Dreams of New Orleans), Gordon is localized at the 10 o’clock position, forward from the plane of the loudspeakers. His improvisatory genius is believably isolated and exposed—your brain tells you that’s where he is standing as the featured performer, not where some mixing engineer put him in post-production. Music played back with the filter engaged often seems subjectively louder, perhaps because of this heightened sense of immediacy.
Envelopment and proximity are attention grabbing at audio shows but can be dismissed by skeptics as gimmicky; reverb can be taken for granted. A fourth spatial characteristic of the sound created by a BACCH filter, the one that impressed me the most, is what Choueiri has called spatial extent and resolution. Extent, he explains, “is the perception that the sound occupies a three-dimensional volume, like a hologram,” while resolution, in this context, “is the ability to discern detail and structure within the extent.” Listening to my favorite orchestral test track, the opening Allegretto of the Shostakovich Symphony No.15, as performed by Bernard Haitink and the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, I attended closely to the sequential woodwind solos near the beginning of the movement. It’s not only clear that the bassoon is a larger instrument than the flute, and that the former is seated a row behind the latter—you can get that kind of information from traditional stereo—but also that these correctly scaled and localized aural images interact to represent a continuous acoustic environment where the musicians are breathing the same air but still own a unique three-dimensional space of their own. It’s like the difference between the pop-up-book kind of depth and dimensionality you get from most 3D movies and the far more effortless perception of space you experience in life. |
The concept of eliminating cross talk in stereo audio reproduction is not a new fad, but rather a longstanding pursuit in the field of audio engineering and high-fidelity audio. It's not necessarily neurotic but rather driven by a desire to improve the accuracy and realism of stereo sound reproduction.
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Yes, I’ve heard it. I bought "BAACH4Mac", the lowest price version, for under $1,000 USD. You can spend over $30K for the most expensive versions, with several price points in between. The cheapest version does not have the most advanced filters, nor does it include a microphone for acoustic measurements or a web cam for head-tracking. Software only, for MacOS only. This is not a gimmick, it really does produce remarkable effects. For example, in one of the first tracks I heard, the apparent position of a trombone player moved from approximately my left speaker to a point around 7 feet to the left, placing it outside my living room walls and onto the front porch. Uncanny. However, I don’t get that dramatic effect with most recordings. And you may not get it with all loudspeakers. Mine are hybrid electrostatic speakers that are rather tightly focused on the listener’s sweet spot. IMO this is a potentially game-changing technology, but years after first release, it still isn’t productized to the point it is ready for prime time (unless it’s been greatly improved since I bought it). For most users, the installation and set-up process might take an hour or more, with a lot of telephone support and remote access by the vendor. The UI is ugly and complicated. And again, at least in this lowest-price version, you don’t get the most dramatic effects on all (or even most) recordings. I kept thinking something about my setup was wrong, so I kept monkeying with it until I gave up and went back to conventional stereo. I may revisit it soon, after having made other upgrades to my system. I’d be interested to hear if anyone has auditioned and can comment on both BAACH4Mac and Apple’s spatial audio technology. |
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More than half people had no idea of basic acoustic .... The concept above of "envelopment" or named " listener envelopment" Which is the experience resulting from the relation between the sound sources apparent dimensions and the listener position and envelopment , ASW and LV abbreviated, can be mechanically created in a small room and this without any DSP but with some timbre modifications and no comparable perfection as with the BACCH filters... I did it in my small room then i know it ... Then when i read about the BACCH i know instantly how and why this will be a revolution in audio... Knowing basic acoustic by experiments is better and a real knowledge, buying many dac and many amplifiers and speakers because of hype and a big wallet is NOT KNOWLEDGE...There is no other dsp to compare the BACCH filters with... Reading what Choueiri explained well, if you had basic acoustic knowledge is ENOUGH to understand why it is not a marketing gimmick...
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Hi, I heard it at Axpona and I thought it was excellent sounding. It had a 3D effect. I have ordered one and we will set it up in the next two weeks. I have a reference listening room and we use this room to test lots of different brands. I do not represent this manufacture but I am in the audio industry. I find this manufacturer very interesting and I believe the designer has a very solid reputation. Cheers and I will give my honest opinion after it has been set up. |
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Amazing comment. Pretty much reinforces my belief that while the underlying engine might be truly wonderful, it's always the implementation interface that makes it terribly unpleasant to deal with and not worthwhile. About not working well with all speakers is a huge problem, and of course music selections are kind of important. I have lots of recordings that sound absolutely wonderful even without this product innovation. Why the designers spend all their time with the core engine without giving regard to the interface and issues encounter upon implementation is beyond me. Dsp tools that are out there are also the same, the backend is probably fine it's just the front end that screws things up and frustrates the hell out of people.
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I have been interested in this subject most of my audiophile life. Decades ago I heard a demonstration of a Yamaha DSP-1 Sound Field Processor and I was blown away. Since then I have acquired several processors including a Carver C-9 Holographic Generator, BSG QOL, Black Ice Foz SSX, and a DSP-1. Someday I expect to write a review of these processors in case anyone else is interested. I have not heard the BACCH system but I look forward to it. I've got a spare MAC laptop that I could use but I would like to hear it at an Audio Show if possible. For now I'll discuss the BSG QOL processor because it's my favorite and there is good reporting on it. The unit is very good at expanding depth of the soundstage. You can almost see the instruments placed in 3 dimensions with much more depth than standard stereo. I really like it and I run it most of the time. Whenever I compare components I bypass it because it makes everything sound better. I like it so much that I bought a spare in case this one breaks. There are several good articles in the trade mags about this processor and they go into the theory behind it. If you are interested you can learn more about this subject in layman's terms. Here are a couple links: Stereophile BSG and TAS BSG Review
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@curiousjim Its clear the OP has already formulated his completely uninformed opinion and is now just cherry-picking responses that reinforce it while disregarding all the positive responses. Plus, he’s obviously done zero research on the product or made any effort to actually learn anything about it. But it is interesting hearing the feedback from people who’ve actually used it, so at least there’s that. |
To say I've done no research is just wrong. I saw the YouTube video from the audio file junkie and it does confirm that the interface is not terribly friendly to work with. The channel really doesn't show how the thing works which is really the point. To speak about how it sounds and all the wonderful immersive two stereo benefits, you have to keep in mind he's a representative of the company and clearly he's biased. He makes money off of this product or hopes to. As noted in a common above it's a pain in the ass to work with. That's the biggest marketing problem. It's a confusing product that's glitchy. How horrifying to get involved with his product. Don't understand why the manufacturer can't do a better job with the interface makes no sense whatsoever. |
A user above said it took him an hour to set up, and once it’s set up you’re done so not sure what you’re on about here. Plus, you thought it cost $20k when in fact there are options down to around $5k and as little as $900 and dismissed it as a “marketing gimmick.” C’mon man. Given the benefit on offer here I think you’re greatly overemphasizing the interface issue, but u do u. |
@curiousjim After it was linked here. Joke. Total joke. |
Hey Guys... I've been following the progress of BACCH for many months. After a couple weeks of use, I decided to write an article NOT directed to audiophiles, simply for music lovers who might want to enhance their sound. A review for audiophiles would look different, but the article touches on the changes in sound. For about a month now, I've been using the BACCH Plug-In download purchased online for $320 (after promo discount) with my Foobar music player. This concept is not new, but it did need intelligent digital sound processing to refine what is necessary. I'll try to post my long story here if it takes it. I will share with you here that holographic dimensionality, dynamics, localization, increase of truthful timbre (my most important goal) is rewarding, with no perceptible downside. My article gives some backgrounding and I'm open to outreach. More Peace (bold print for old eyes) Pin |
MUSIC September 2023
Our topic grabs most of us like a friendly, octopus-hug. For some of us, music is a life-affirming need, like food or drink. Hi...my name is Tim, and I’m an aging audiophile. Harbored deeply in my genetic reality, the playback and enjoyment of electrically recorded sound began with my folks. The riches of radio into my adolescence included crooners, be-bop, do-wop, Elvis, Ella and Old Broadway. My older siblings displayed musical talent, me, the designated listener.
Friends, this article is not intended as a product review, though it easily could be. My audience is for anyone who has more than a passing interest in quality sound from a stereo source. The source might be a tablet, laptop, or PC, and include headphones, earbuds, passive or active loudspeakers on up to exotic high-fidelity audio. In describing my recent experience, I may occasionally use audio verbiage, but the plan is to share news with anyone with a passing interest in better sound, using layman’s terms. Disclaimer: I’ve no affiliation, professional interest, financial or otherwise with the product. I’m just a music lover who wants to spread good news in plain language.
In my simple opinion, I’m introducing a scientific, ground-breaking add-on device that, in some form, will long affect musical arts appreciation. The specific product is the BACCH Labs plug-in filter developed by Professor Edgar Choueiri of Princeton University. As a simplification, it is a downloadable algorithmic digital filter that works to correct the arrival time of sound to one’s ears. The digital technology dates to 2016, however, advancements allowing a downloadable plug-in are very recent. Much technical info can be found on their website. As I understand, successful demonstrations by Prof Choueiri have included even the use of a lowly boombox. This story is mine, alone, in my dedicated studio. Like food and beverages, there are opinions. We may share experience yet interpret it differently to others.
Here goes.BACCH algorithms perform the cancellation of “crosstalk,” sounds emanating from one loudspeaker penetrating sounds coming from the other loudspeaker, delivering unwanted information to both ears. This simply does not happen in nature. BACCH identifies these sounds, extracting what does not belong, allowing what does. Addition by extraction, pretty much...resulting in left speaker information to left ear only, right to right. The resulting sounds become much more life-like. Harmonic content seems naturally increased, especially in listening to well recorded piano. Former “missing” information, distorted or hidden by crosstalk deep in the mix, self-corrects and becomes audible, restoring cues to dimensionality. I’m reminded of the floating 3D seeds in the movie Avatar.Timbre, the sound of unamplified instruments in real space, becomes more convincingly and truthfully expressed. Leading edge crispness, acuity, greater articulation and the natural decay of sounds are more perceptible, without effort. All this without loss of dynamics. If anything, the percussive content seems increased without overloading, nor drawing attention to itself. Vocals are delineated with articulation and profound clarity, stirring emotional reach. Better timing of high frequencies, percussive strikes, shimmers and additional vibrancy of taught strings, draws smiles.Ambiance retrieval.
Any space where sound is created is uniquely captured by microphones. Standing on a corner in downtown Manhattan, NY, consider how our hearing can detect and locate events inside the cacophony, making some sense of it. This brings us to some concerns. For focused, attentive listeners, some recordings that have been heavily processed and engineered in the studio can sound foreign and somewhat incorrect with the BACCH, especially listening to old favorites.
Until now, I’ve refrained from examples of specific music. Rather involuntarily, when specific music, artists, genres are brought up, our opinions, flavors and, yes, prejudices come to fore. Hackles rise and we become defensive. I’m hoping to skirt that with a smattering of examples in a few broader areas, hopefully, music familiar to many of us.
First up, an example from the mid-1970’s, “Dire Straits” their introductory, self-titled album. The analog sound (vinyl) was exceptional, and it remains a favorite to this day. Jumping to the mid-1990's, the sound of digital technology had improved, finally striking my emotions. Unable to financially pursue great sound in both digital and analog (records,) I gave up my beloved vinyl system. The real challenge was in replacing my vinyl music with equally great sounding digital sources.
As an aside, in the extreme hi end audio community, the “which is best” argument continues around vinyl or digital playback. Most would agree the gap has closed considerably, particularly for the more casual listener. There is much to be enjoyed in the tactile process of handling, examining and playback of vinyl. The jackets are rich with readable information and shopping for used vinyl can be fun and exciting. I continue to shop for friends, truly feeling a part of music history. Nonetheless, here, our topic is the general improvement of sound for the masses.
In time, I finally found a good sounding digital version of “Dire Straits,” still, not equaling my memory of the sound of my vinyl. With the active BACCH in my system, the sound surpasses the vinyl playback in all parameters of good sound, despite it being a studio production. Next up, Paul Simon’s “Graceland,” a tour de force creatively and sonically. With the BACCH, from a digital source, the title cut, “Graceland,” sounds odd and a bit off. Remember, as an audiophile, I listen with more than average intent and know this album extremely well. The cut “Homeless,” however, sounds even more amazing than the vinyl, using the BACCH.Mercury Living Presence has historically famous classical stereo recordings. The recording techniques of the day used 2 and 3 microphones to record stereo with minimal studio processing. With the BACHH, OH my! Onto minimalist audiophile quality 2L Music Store recordings. OH my, my!! Onward. Last night I listened to some cuts from “Kind of Blue,” a Miles Davis led iconic jazz recording, famous for its enveloping sound. It was a riveting experience. I shifted to streaming more jazz records by a European label acclaimed for its “hands-off”” studio processing, ECM. Again, consistently lovely. “Trio,” a friendly collaboration of skillful harmonies from Emmylou Harris, Dolly Parton and Linda Ronstadt reaching worldwide sales of appx. 4 million. Like the Dire Straits, vinyl wonderful, digital just okay. With BACCH, the vocals are more enriched and delineated, sounding superior to my memory with vinyl.
Okay, old timer, what about modern music? My young son has created computer generated electronic music for years, having signed with a music label. Ash's music is created using headphones, not studio monitors and adapts quite nicely to BACCH playback, since loudspeakers are not used in the production. BACH playback in my sound system has increased my respect and understanding of they's (yup) creations of genres which are less familiar to me, including rap, hip-hop, etc. Again, a caution folks. Much of today’s modern popular music is highly processed and flavored towards exaggerated bass suitable to mass-produced earbuds and other common listening devices.
There IS a low-risk trial solution! The BACCH has a 14 day free trial period featuring basic “set-up” instructions for your stereo. At this writing, cost of the entry level plug-in is $399 minus a current 15% off instant promotional code. For many of us, spoiled by almost free music streaming offline, this cost may seem alarming. Remember, this is a SINGLE cost improving music appreciation over months and years. Amortized, as a benefit for music lovers, it’s inexpensive and great fun! For audiophiles, evolutionary.
Over time, there most likely will be competition, however, it is my understanding that BACCH is continually improving its algorithms, having quite a lead. True progress in the audio arts moves slowly. BACCH provides evidence of “surely.” Thanks for reading, Tim Gagnon pinthrifttm@gmail.com |
Great review.... Thanks for the trouble to do it pinthrift.. Most people will not read Choueiri papers then it will help them to look at it... I was tempted by the BACCH labs windows version but it is not so well suitable for headphone... My main audiophile set up is for headphone... So good are my box speakers they are not at the level of my headphone... I must wait for a windows version for headphone or buy the costlier BACCH Choueiri option... |
So why don’t they post an explanatory YouTube video explaining the interface. This is the biggest hurdle for marketing this product and they know it. DSP interfaces are horrifying. Also testing a room is horrifying to do. Because no one has designed an Interface that makes the process easier to deal with |
I built my entire system on the principles of Dr. Edward Choueiri. I read about BACCH when I first started building my system and tried some music processed by the BACCH system and it was amazing using the suggested set up and placement of speakers. I could pick out every instrument in the orchestra in perfect space. I am saving up for it. Full package is about $10K. His work and principles are licensed to the sound bars that do so much with so little. Imagine what a true HiFi rig will sound like. It’s my next purchase and it will be the ultimate game changer. I feel like everything I’ve done has gotten me to this place. This is the real deal. Thanks, Steve |
