Aurender

“five chassis digital front end”

@blisshifi 

A five-chassis digital front end demands some serious real estate, and unfortunately most people just don’t have that kind of space. I own a three-chassis Merging Technologies digital front end, and even that feels like a challenge whenever I think about adding more pieces to the system. At one point I actually ran a five-chassis (Merging + N30SA) digital setup… lol!

To this day, I have yet to find a server + DAC two-chassis combo that can handily beat Merging’s performance. A high-performance clock paired with a state-of-the-art power supply + optically isolated LAN signal really makes all the difference when it comes to digital streaming.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and indulging me in my little rant 😊 Always enjoy our conversation and exchange of ideas on digital front ends.

That said, I do WISH it were an option in the N50, like you do. :)

@lalitk I don’t think I was misinterpreting, and we are both on the same page. I just don’t think, in Aurender’s product strategy, it makes sense to build on the internal clock, as we know that the power supply demands for it to perform like the MC10 would result in a compromise of performance if implemented into the existing chassis space for the N50. Maybe future innovations will allow for that in future models. I think from a market perspective, you also hit it on the head with your second to last paragraph.

DCS as well is keeping clocks separate. Unfortunately, their flagship Varese is a five chassis digital front end that takes more space than the N50 plus clock, but it does include mono DACs at a total of… get ready for it… $267K! 🤦‍♂️ 
 

“Putting a the 10MHz clock in as a module into the N50 would likely allow for an improvement over stock, but it wouldn’t deliver the Sonic performance of the standalone MC10”

@blisshifi 

You may have missed my point. I wasn’t merely hinting at shoving a Rubidium clock module onto the back of the chassis. A high-precision clock requires meticulous implementation to be truly effective. You’d expect the same level of thoughtful integration that Aurender has clearly given to the rest of the modules and circuitry in the N50. From an end-user perspective, the current clock implementation in N50 (which is same as in N20, N30) feels like it’s what’s holding the N50 back from being a truly reference-level music server. You’re going all out on everything else—so why leave the clock implementation at such a basic level?

I guess Aurender assumes that anyone investing $40K in the N50 wouldn’t hesitate to follow dealer advice and add the MC10, completing what they position as the “masterpiece” of digital refinement in their music server lineup 😊

I really like your suggestion of an updated W20SE outfitted with a Rubidium clock for those who don’t want to deal with the 3–4 chassis approach. I know I’d pick one up in a heartbeat.

@lalitk I hear you on the chassis overload. Compared to everything else in high end audio, streaming and serving are still relatively new innovations, and management of noise and signal integrity are still in its formative stages. While some folks get turned on by the multiple chassis, many are looking for smaller form factors. Think about computing when it first became mass in the late 70s to early 80s.

In a different forum online, I mentioned where I felt the value of the MC10 clock lies - not only in its isolated chassis, but also in its large, very high quality linear power supply. Putting a the 10MHz clock in as a module into the N50 would likely allow for an improvement over stock, but it wouldn’t deliver the Sonic performance of the standalone MC10. And there is value in using the MC10 even if one ends up selling all their Aurender gear, as it can be used with both 75 and 50 Ohm digital components.

It might be interesting if Aurender were to release something alternative to their flagship like an updated W20SE with the Rubidium clock for those who did not want the 3-4 chassis approach. Perhaps one that sits around the same price point as the N30SA. 

+1 oddiofyl

I agree that streaming can be a mixed bag and for the most part I don’t even think about bit depth or sample rate when streaming because it sounds so good through the Aurender and my DAC that I’m at a point where I can listen to music and not obsess over gear.  

@blisshifi 

I see the Aurender N50 adds another box housing toroidal transformers and takes a more modular approach with its LAN/USB/I²S boards (much like MSB’s design philosophy). What’s a little disappointing, though, is the lack of any major upgrade to the internal clock. Yes, I realize you can use an external clock, but with all that real estate in the new design they could have easily provisioned a Rubidium 10 MHz clock module. It feels like a missed opportunity at this price point.

That said, I’d really love to hear your impressions—especially how the N50 stacks up against the W20SE, which still remains my favorite piece in their lineup.

@oddiofyl ​​​​and @audiostick, if you’re not already doing so, I’ve found that the streaming quality can be further improved by using a high quality switch and Ethernet cable upstream. In my case, many streams outperform the redbook when using the same DAC, but some CDs are still better sounding than their streaming counterparts. Keep in mind I’m also using the N30SA, and comparing it with transports up to $25K. I also am now currently evaluating the new N50, which is just on a whole other level. FML!

@oddiofyl  Interesting you mentioned "I still think my transport sounds better than the Aurender with 44.1k material."  I still own and stream allot of 44.1k material and think the same the same thing, but assumed it was my sub-par Streamer.  It has made it difficult to leave disc-spinning behind.  Thanks for input.  

My Aurender and Vault are in different systems.    I can't really compare the two but I can say that .flac files pulled from the Vault played flawlessly and sounded excellent on my main system.   I still think my transport sounds better than the Aurender with 44.1k material.   

The Aurender plays from a memory cache and sounds great whether its a stream, memory stick, USB drive ....  all sound good with the Aurender.  

@oddiofyl Have you by chance compared listening to files played from your Vault to files directly from the N200?  Did you hear any differences?

Dinov,   I was easily able to find my Vault 2 on the network and play it's files through the Aurender.    There is a tutorial/ help within the Conductor software that lets you "mount" the Aurender to your PC and move files to it's SSD.    

I have a N200 , its a great machine 

Good call on the clarification, George! Thanks for that. 

@blisshifi - I've read that the N200 sounds better than the N10, but have never heard it before. If I had the choice of either player, I would choose the one that sounded best to me.

@ghdprentice - I can confirm your comment that indeed the N10 will stream Tidal or Qobuz. Also it'll stream Spotify as well. It however cannot do the Tidal or Qobuz apps.

Just to make sure what @blisshifi says is not misinterpreted. The N10 will run Qobuz natively... meaning the N10 will log on to your Qobuz (or Tidal) account and you use your mobil device (phone or tablet) to control it with the highly regarded Conductor app. The normal way most people use it. I have two Aurrender... and it is how I use it. 

Qobuz Connect is a new feature that allow you to use the Qobuz App to stream from your Aurrender. 

@pdjmwj The N10 is a very good streamer on the used market today, but keep in mind a few things. First, it’s on an older hardware architecture, so its updates are fairly limited. For instance, it can never receive Roon compatibility or Qobuz Connect. Second, I’ve known a few folks who said the N200 sounds better (I agree here), despite it being a lower MSRP. That is a bit subjective, as the N200 is a bit more dynamic, coherent, and resolving, the N10 is a bit softer on its delivery. Some people may prefer the latter. 
 

N10 user here. I've had several software updates in the last month or two, including one in the last week, so no, they have not stopped supporting the N10.

@pdjmwj 

You may have missed my feedback on your thread, 

https://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2829917

“N10 is good streamer (better than N150) if you’re using AES/SPDIF output from streamer. Having said that, I would not buy N10 if Aurender is no longer pushing software updates. So check with Aurender if they are still supporting N10. 

Streamer choices greatly depends on your DAC. Are you connecting the two together with USB or AES / SPDIF.  If USB, N150 would be upto the standard (this means your DAC has a superior clock and decent USB implementation).”

@lalitk 

Been reading thru many different Aurender posts and saw you owned an N10. I'm looking for a streamer only and have a great price on one. 

Question: is the N10 in 2025 still a worthy streamer. The N20 is beyond me unfortunately.  The N10 has the connectivity I need. Somewhat concerned about software updates.

tanks...

Agree with ofdiofyl, the upgrade in sound is noticeable. Something I wasn’t expecting with N150. <was using modright oppo205 with cd collection and bluesound to Musical Paradise DAC; now using Aurender to Musical Paradise DAC.

The Aurender now comes with free 2 month trial to use ROON.

I am really loving my N200,    As lucmichaude said, stored content is indistinguishable from the original.   Support from Aurender is great too... Im glad I stretched my budget on this one , it's such a slick way to stream, and store music.  

I have the Aurender's USB connected to my RME DAC which I use in a headphone set up.  The RME doesn't care about the source clock, it uses it's internal clock for all inputs

Keep in mind thats just a USB 2.0 cable, nothing special.   I think my Lab 12 does sound better via coax,  I haven't A/B 'd the two extensively,  could sound better with a purpose designed USB audio cable , not sure.    Like everything,  it's all subjective 

I'm holding off on any further cable purchases until I get my new pre.    I just picked up some DH Lab Air Matrix Cryo RCA and they are super high quality .  I will eventually pick up the DH Labs USB and revisit .

I have two N100H for my two systems. One feeds a Devialet 220 Pro to Raidhos X3. The Devialet has all kinds of inputs for streaming.: Ethernet, upnp, spotify etc.. The Aurender is so much cleaner it is hard to believe. So II bought one for that system. In the other, the Aurender goes to a Denafrips Pontus USB. 

One of the two units, cloned from the first one, had a stange bug of filling its queue by repeating the playlist. The USA team , Kelly and Ari, did not let me down and had their team in Korea work on it in remote mode until it was fixed. 

Also, I like their conductor app which accesses Qobuz beautifully. i mean the sound is indistinguishable from the same song on the hard disk, in Hi res.

I just whish they could access Apple Music internally like Qobuz. Maybe some day.

@pokey77 Your stance is accurate. I wasn’t implying you yourself had heard the two and had a preference, but was just acknowledging the sentiment between the two. Both are exceptional and endgame. While I had a preference sonically for the N30SA, one’s system synergy might sway the decision. But I do also agree that Aurender is a simpler solution in terms of usability. Glad to hear of your affinity for T+A and as above acknowledge your sentiment on their software interface. I would say that despite any lack of maturity T+A has over a more mature platform, it is nice to adjust most settings like DAC filters, preamp source display names, etc for many of their units over their mobile app. 

@blisshifi 

Just to be fair, I was not implying that the N30SA was better, I've never heard the N30SA or the Taiko. But I have read at least a few that have gone on the record saying that they preferred the N30. My impression on the two compared is that they are more similar than not. With the $10k+ savings on the N30, and the fact that the software is fully dialed in and easy to use, the N30SA makes solid logical sense. -blisshifi, I appreciate your comments.

@vonhelmholtz 

I think with the exception of the W20SE, all other Aurender streamers have been updated or introduced in the last two years. The W20SE was introduced in late 2019, so isn't all that far beyond the newer streamers.

BTW, I love T+A gear. Heard it many times and it came down to my second choice. Love the looks and the sound quality. The SACD player they have is amazing and it has a built-in streamer that sounds amazing. But the software, at least last time I heard it four years ago, was very poor operationally. I hope it is much better now. But this is certainly where Aurender shines in having such a seamless and easy-to-use software interface. And not only is it easy to operate, it has phenomenal sound quality as well. 

@falconquest

I use Roon to broadcast to my 2 channel and 11.2 rooms. Others have many other Roon endpoints. For me, this flexibility would not prevent me from moving to Aurender/Conductor, but it is a consideration.

@vonhelmholtz To respond your assumption, the answer is "typically yes, but not always".

As oddiofyl mentions, he still prefers the coax out from the Aurender to the USB. While the higher end Aurenders have even better clocks, the N200's coax may still be better than the USB interface to your Holo. You would have to experiment and decide.

Sometimes, but rarely, even with USB, some DACs can be set to prefer the internal clock of the source vs in the DAC. Very, very rare.

And in the case of T+A DACs, both the SDV 3100 HV and the DAC 200 both have some masterclock functionality built in, so it still optimizes the clocking coming in from the Aurender when using coax/AES.

And again, with the N200 vs the higher ends via USB, what you are still getting in the other units are a more robust power supply and better isolation that will give you additional tonal density and clarity. I would say something like the N20 would give you more body and meat on the bones in the same way your new phono stage does, where as the N200 will sound just a bit leaner/neutral. The N200 gets very close to the N20, but there is still an audible improvement in the N20 (say 20% better) but at double the price. The N20 is the sweet spot for near end game at its price point, but the N200 is probably Aurender's best unit for price/performance ratio.

I used to own a N100H and a separate CD transport which to me sounded great. In the interest of going to a one box solution, I picked up an ACS10 which I run via USB into my Holo Audio May. The Conductor app allows me to flip between Tidal and my stored music easily and seamlessly. I use a dedicated iPad as my interface and scratch my head at why anyone would want a subscription to listen to music? The cost of the iPad is half that of a lifetime Roon subscription so it makes perfect sense (screw using a phone!). The sound is fantastic and Ari has always been very helpful whenever I have questions. I couldn't be happier! 

@mkdm11

My replacement Holo May DAC KTE will be here on Wednesday. I’m interpreting your post to say that AES/Coax vs USB performance is very close With the Holo. If this is correct, then USB would certainly provide you with the added ability to listen to high bitrate PCM and DSD, but given the fact that you are struggling with interconnects, my interpretation of your remarks might be off.

@blisshifi 

Just to make sure that I understand..The better clock is integral to providing the ultra low jitter Coax/AES output, but is not central to USB output, thus for USB only the N200 is sufficient.

@lalitk Nice to know about Euphony Stylus on Pink Faun. I recall when Euphony first came out there was a lot of chatter about how it sounded better than Roon. I have one friend that still uses it, but I never personally owned a hardware solution that ran it. Thanks for sharing. 

@vonhelmholtz Yes, while the streaming processes and protocols may be the same, the quality of the power supply, clock l, and isolation in the design of the circuits and components (isolation overall by chassis, isolation inside across individual components, etc) are the main reasons why each unit sounds the same. 

The Suncoast Audio video was informative. They clearly stated that streaming services, streamed internal and NAS are processed and sound the same. All files are loaded to cache and played locally from cache. Given that some of you can hear a difference suggest that some difference in background processes must exist.

They clearly believe that the N20 is the sweet spot, but that the N200 is the best transport value for USB only. The choice depends upon how your DAC handles USB vs coax/AES.

All of the transports, except the battery powered W20SE have been updated within the last couple of years.  All now have transformer isolated ethernet inputs and the newer lower powered Intel chipset.

This video was a really good Aurender sales presentation.

@blisshifi

Pink Faun has developed fully customized OS called Euphony Stylus. The end users can switch between Roon and Stylus depending on one’s preferences in playback quality and UI experience. You can also add Merging Technologies +player to above list. The implementation of ROON in their +player is just as remarkable not to mention the adoption of RAVENNA which allows streaming upto DSD256 over Ethernet.

@lalitk I would agree the UI for the native T+A streaming platform isn’t as mature as Roon or Conductor, but I would anticipate that knowing T+A hasn’t been a company completely dedicated to designing digital sources like others have. Of all the platforms out there, Roon is my favorite one to use, but in my experience it’s not always the best sounding. The Grimm MU1 and Taiko SGM are two that are truly exceptional with Roon. Pink Faun is up there as well. 

@blisshifi

You’re probably right! If I am faced with the decision to pick between Taiko + XDMS with marginal gains over N30SA, I am very likely to keep the $10K savings.

The T+A SDV3100 scenario you shared is what I find most interesting. If you have to try really hard to tell the difference between SDV3100 streaming client and N30SA, then my hats off to T+A. But I know there is little bit more to the story, the T+A interface for Qobuz / Tidal is not very user friendly (you can’t have it all, right). A close friend of mine who owns SDV3100 actually prefers Taiko over SDV3100 internal streaming client.

You gotta love the subjective nature of our hobby :-) I do appreciate your candid feedback, thank you!

lalik innous servers ajrun an older inferior processor so they are having Roon issues Sense is much less resource intensive.

432EVO uses a much newer and more powerful processor then Innous also unlike Innous we run Roon in its own core on the cpu

it took frederic vanden pool the evos designer five years to develop a totally unique operating system designed to run Roon properly

Fredeic is a master linux programer

so his operating system actually employs three cores of the processor.

One core runs Roon

One core runs machine operations

one core handles music files all run on a fast yet low noise processor.

combine this proprirtary operating sstem with great hardware you can produce a superior sounding Roon server.

Dave and Troy

audio intellect NJ.

US importers 432EVo music servers

@lalitk Unfortunately no, when I did compare it was in someone else’s system and Taiko was running Roon. At that point the units have the same level of body and natural delivery (which is significant compared to any other streamer / server I’ve ever heard), but the N30SA had better clarity and separation. Maybe XDMS puts the Taiko up a notch, but for a $10K difference, I’m wondering if the SQ improvement from the software alone would justify the price difference.

What I would also say is that while I do have the N30SA, it is hooked up to the T+A SDV 3100 HV Reference Streaming DAC Preamp. I’ve spent a lot of time comparing the two, and it is really close. The N30SA does still beat the SDV’s streamer just ever so slightly with body and detail, but I have to try really hard to tell the difference. I’d like to try hooking up a simple fanless NAS, thinking of getting a QNAP HS-264 to try, putting one of my SSDs and a linear power supply to connect via Ethernet into the SDV and compare it to the N30SA’s local library. If the SDV is close, that really makes it a killer unit as its preamp and DAC sections are also the best I’ve ever heard.

And again, in full transparency I am both an Aurender and T+A dealer, so feel free to take my comments with a grain of salt despite these being my honest convictions compared to all other gear I’ve heard. 

“Not only does it sound better, the N30SA costs $10K less”
@blisshifi

Have you compared Taiko running on XDMS with N30 in your system?

@pokey77 

Thanks for the info.

Roon can exhibit functional issues due to seemingly minor network issues.  For example, don't use a smart switch unless you know what you are doing.  Perhaps, some Conductor users suffer the same fate.

Roon musicality claims are all over the map.  I wonder if this can be traced back to Roon Core implementation.

+1 @pokey77 on the Aurender N30SA over the Taiko. There are a few other threads on other forums that cover this. Not only does it sound better, the N30SA costs $10K less. 

@vonhelmholtz 

You may be interested in watching this video from Suncoast Audio where they discuss all things Aurender with Ari Margolis - he is the face of Aurender here in the states. It'll bring you up to date on Aurender and what they are doing, including why they use their own proprietary software, best sounding outputs, etc. 

(13) In Stereo with Mike & Rick - Episode 4 - Ari Margolis with Aurender - YouTube

I've owned an Aurender N10 for four years now. I can say that the Conductor software is very easy to use and I've really had no meaningful problems with it, just works every time. So for the few users who have had problems, I wonder if it is not with the actual machine itself or some other issue? My dealer has/had nearly all the different models in stock and I don't ever remember him having a problem with one. To be forthcoming, I've only used Aurender streamers in my system. I've also played with several DACs that have a streamer built in at my dealers shop, but none of them, even the top $$ tier brands don't have a user interface that is as useful or as easy to use.

I've followed along on the Taiko threads on a different forum. At least one member, who has both the Taiko Extreme and an N30 sold the Taiko as they enjoyed using the Conductor software more on the N30.

A note on Roon, I know a person on this forum that can use both Roon and Conductor and they prefer Conductor. Also, there's a thread, again, on another forum, that is about the different updates to Roon. Apparently, each iteration of Roon can be different sounding and some much better than others. Though Taiko uses Roon, they are in middle of an upgrade to their own XDMS software, and all users in that forum that have tried both Roon and XDMS say that XDMS is far superior.

@vonhelmholtz 

As said previously I have explored I2s in depth and I wouldn't get hung up on it and think you are buying into older tech such as USB, AES and SPDIF.

The USB powerline interference has been mitigated by DACs using Amanero USB Boards, which receive power directly from the DAC's power supply, not from the host via USB cable.

I use electrical tape to tape over the +positive line at both ends. This prevents EMI/RFI interference and stops the wire acting as an aerial, if you only tape one end. Don't tape the -negative line as this is the ground. Many instructions online.

The Amanero Board is why USB can outperform AES/SPDIF in many systems, various manufacturers use standard and modified versions.

@dinov Thank you for sending me SEVEN notifications that I had corrected your inaccurate and grossly misleading post.

Aurenders can utilise NAS, but as I said internal drives sound better. I have 4000 CDs (FLAC & WAV) and a few hundred SACDs on a 4tb SSD removable internal drive and it’s only half full.

If you are content with your system, enjoy and good luck to you, nobody is disputing that. However there are continuously 4 or 5 threads enquiring about Aurenders - that says something.

@lalitk thanks but let’s just agree to disagree. 

“For now, a Node with an external linear power supply, a great digital interconnect, my DAC and a NAS gives me audiophile bliss. What’s wrong with that?”

@dinov

There is nothing wrong with the your current system. But your previous statement on Aurender being not NAS friendly is inaccurate. My Aurender can access music stored on its internal drives or as well as external NAS on my network.

My Aurender had no problem finding my Vault and PC on the network

@ronrags ​​​​​​Why you telling me? I don't care.  Better addressed to the forum.

@lordmelton with all due respect, from two of this threads contributors, it was my understanding that using a NAS defeated the main premise of Aurender’s proprietary “signal” path. I don’t think what I said was “incorrect” as you put it but if you’re ok with how Aurender handles its signal chain then this may be your component. For me, I don’t need or want proprietary built in HDDs. I like the flexibility of a NAS, and not something that’s proprietary. So like I said, I’d look elsewhere, and Lumin fits fits my needs if I wanted to throw more money at this situation. For now, a Node with an external linear power supply, a great digital interconnect, my DAC and a NAS gives me audiophile bliss. What’s wrong with that?