Aurender Model Choices
Before I ask my question let me provide some context.
My system includes the following:
New MacBook Air Running itunes/Music serving hundreds of stored CDs
Macbook connected to my Benchmark DAC3 via Audioquest Coffee USB Cable
DAC balanced connection to Benchmark HPA4 PreAmp
PreAmp balanced connection to Benchmark ABH2 Amp
Benchmark Amp connected to Harbeth C7es-XD Speakers
This configuration has provided a neutral clean, and balanced sound. Really no complaints. However I wanted to add Streaming. So I Signed up for Qobuz and downloaded the App to my MacBook. Using WiFi I found that the Qobuz stream offered superior sound quality to my local CD library. Even Redbook CD quality was better plus the HiRes albums were really good
So now I need to get a dedicated Streamer. Using the MacBook is not convenient and from what I’ve read a Streamer should offer additional SQ enhancement. I’ve done a lot of research and really like the Aurender products plus when I recently purchased my speakers I auditioned them with an Aurender Model 100. The sound was excellent. I plan to go back in a few weeks to audition the $6k N200 model. I’m sure it will sound very good but I will be left wondering what does the N20 sound like? How much better can it be for another $6K? Unfortunately my dealer doesn’t have one to audition and neither does any other dealer near me. I’ve read comments on several forums that the N20 is twice as good as the N200 or that the N200 is nipping at the heals of the N20 or that the N20 just offers a 20% increase in SQ or the N20 blows the N200 out of the water. Without a side by side audition I’m struggling with paying twice the price without a demonstrable and significant SQ improvement. I would expect a SQ that once heard I could never settle for the less expensive model. In my recent experience a more expensive model does’t always win. When buying my speakers I auditioned the Harbeth C7es-XD and the more expensive 30.2 XD model. After almost an hour of back and forth I preferred the lower priced model.
So to conclude has anyone had the opportunity to audition the N20 and N200 together?
If so please Specifically what if any SQ differences did you hear and were they worth an additional $6k?
As I listen to my system streaming from my MacBook with wonderfully smooth, clean HiRes sound I wonder can I actually get significantly more improvement for $6k or $12K?
Thanks for any info and experiences you can provide.
@jfrmusic, You asked “ May I ask why you went this way?” Very simple. Two of my friends with expensive audio system went with Audirvana Studio and stated their Sound quality was much improved. I contacted others and they agreed. So, I installed a demo Audirvana Studio on my MAC computer and was impressed. After several months of listening, and comparing to my N20, I purchased a dedicated MACBOOK M2 Pro, 12-Core CPU, 19-Core GPU 16GB Unified Memory.
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@lalitk I don’t want to digress from the purpose of this thread, but I want to acknowledge your thoughtful comments. I did have one or two Aurender units through my system some time back along with several other streamers - I’d need to rummage out my notes (literally) to recall model(s). Not a proper double-blind test or prolonged exposure, rather just for fun of the units’ owners who wanted to compare on bigger speakers in a “bigger” room. I turned a blind eye to the swapping processes and couldn’t track predictable differences. People (including myself) can usually perceive differences when switching equipment in the chain, but prior experience suggests to me it’s rarer for those differences to be predictable if confounding factors are properly controlled for. When all this is discussed openly as personal opinion (as you clearly did) I see no issue. Thank you.
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Is Aurrender upgrading their product line in the next year...Roon connective...upgrading DACs, clocks, and chips?? I heard this but unable to confirm... Aurrender is on my list to finalize/complete my digital side...but waiting for news on the updates?? Any news...your thoughts/insight are appreciated? |
You may want to check out a 432evo aeon server.
We just had a client take delivery of an Aeon which he preferred over his N20.
That makes two clients who have preferred our Aeon over an aurender n20.
Our servers are completely upgradable, which means you can move from one level to another, this also means that the server can be improved ,when ever new and improved parts become available.
Dave and Troy Audio Intellect NJ US importers 432evo music servers.
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Actually I just sold my two REL T/5x subs. I just could not get them smoothly integrated with my Harbeth C7s. Probably because the low end of the C7 is only down 3db at 45hz. Tried a variety of combinations of Crossover/Volume. Felt they just negatively impacted the natural soundstage of the C7s which have perfectly adequate bass down to 40hz. With my Spectrum analyzer I can even see some below 35hz output. The C7s just sounded more open and holographic without the subs. The RELs are really low bass reinforcement rather than true subs with their sweet spot around 35-42hz. So I think they were just mudding up the C7 low end. |
@jfrmusic you’re going to love the N200 in that system. |
Thanks again for all the great responses. I’m gratefull to each of you for considering and answering my question. I really appreciate it. I think my current system is pretty revealing. The Benchmark products tend to be underestimated because of their size and price but I’ve not heard anything significantly better at two or three times the price of this stack (DAC3, HPA4, and ABH2) which cost close to $9k. Plus they are so easy to move around. However your points are well taken and the law of diminishing returns will most likely lead me to the N200 as I definitely want the MacBook out of the system as I know a dedicated streamer will offer better SQ as well as convenience based on my audition of the Aurender 100 which was an older discontinued model.It sounded very good. Better than my computer based system. So one more piece of advice I seek. To those who have purchased Aurenders can the Aurender models be purchased below List price? If so what can you tell me about what a fair discount might be? Thanks again
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@JFRMusic you have gotten a lot of great advice and points of view. I’ve cycled through some gear in my system, DAC’s, streamers, Pre’s, Amps and Speakers. I haven’t had the pleasure of having a Aurender Streamer grace my system, based on the brands reputation, one of the best in streaming / digital. I have had Auralic, Lumin, Node streamers, PC’s being used for streaming and ROON. I had all in one boxes, Lumin D2, P1, Node (my first) and separate streamer / DAC’s. Separate streamers made a difference, I compared a P1 using the streamer only to a stand alone streamer (G2) and even though the P1 is 3 - 4 x the price, stand alone streamer bested any other configuration. When comparing streamers my experience was the differences were subtle, even with big price leaps and different didn’t mean better. Upgrades to the streamer’s power supply, cabling, noise management beyond the streamer made bigger differences. Synergies between the Streamer and DAC are huge. If the manufacture of the streamer designed it work best with USB but your DAC is specifically designed for AES you won’t squeeze the best out of either. I ran through the above to highlight you have a great set up, carefully matched with synergy throughout the chain, one piece complementing the other. Chose a streamer that continues in that tradition, from the sounds of it, the less expensive Aurender model fits your gear the best from a synergy, cost, diminishing returns point of view. It’s no doubt a great streamer that if you upgraded other components would still be right at home. Some of the best advice I’ve gotten from various audiophiles and dealers is that speakers have the biggest influence over your happiness. If you have speakers that you love, you then build your system around them. Once you get past speakers, and amp that pairs well, preamp that matches what you value sound wise. Then if you stream, digital chain would be the DAC being the most important piece followed by a streamer. Now, in the digital chain everything matters but you can get a solid streamer and DAC that won’t break the bank that sound great and where you’d have to spend a lot more $$ to see improvements. Thoughtfully and purposefully designed Streamers / DAC’s are as important as the price. Also don’t sleep on the interface / app that comes with the streamer. That’s a huge part of if you’ll enjoy the streamer, along with some of the features offered. Support for those is also key, companies that routinely update / upgrade their Apps. Aurender does, Lumin, Aurilac are 3 that do a great job with this. BluOS is a great app, if you slide into Niam, NAD or some other higher end brands that use it, it’s likely the best app out there. Good Luck! |
@benanders empirical and factual evidence, hearsay, bias. @lalitk covered everything else in his response so I won’t reiterate it. |
The evidence is in the pudding. Try yourself and you may be in for a pleasant surprise. The $6K (N200) and $12K (N20) are not for everyone…OP asked for opinion between the two and the members with direct experience chimed in. If I may, why ask for properly demoed evidence from members here than trying the two aforementioned streamers in your system? IMHO, If you’re happy with raspberry pi and don’t have any inclination to try a streamer like N200 in your system then no amount of empirical evidence would convince you or anyone. Plenty of users here are quite content with using their laptops as a source for streaming. The only thing we can agree on is the origin of source file….this is indeed important much like rest of the components in your system. A well recorded file would sound good in any decent system but in a well put together system, you uncover nuances in that very recording that were previously inaudible or one didn’t know even existed. In @jfrmusic system, the MACbook Air is a bottleneck given rest of his system. Stepping up to N200 would be a very audible improvement based on my past experiences. I have owned many Aurender models over the years, starting out with N100 and each time I stepped to next model, I heard marked improvement in terms of perceived detail, liquidity, transparency, pacing and noise floor. Did all of these nuances adds up to spending 2x, 3x or 4x more ….the answer to that would be very subjective and dependent on each individual pursuit. I’ve made my progression from N100 to N30SA….guess what, no regrets at all cause when I cue up a recording, my system gets out the way and I’m being treated with music and the story within each of those compositions. |
Devils Advocate here. You really like your current sound. You state having the computer in the system isn’t convenient. I am presuming that you wish to use the Mac and not have it tethered to your DAC. Why not buy another PC for non music usage, and add a program such as Audirvana to the current Mac, that basically shuts down a lot of the sonically bad stuff that the Mac is doing? |
You may want to look into a 432evo Aeon from @audiotroy. it is a little more than the N200 but as you upgrade the rest of your system the Aeon would fit right in. |
As others have said the N20 uses an OCXO versus a TCXO on the N200. This will have no impact at all if you use the USB connected to your DAC. Before I bought my N200, I researched this alot and spoke extensively to Aurender at last year's Axpona show. I planned on using just the USB for my Holo Audio May KTE DAC. They did claim there are some other minor things that would make the N20 superior, but they seemed very minor to me, and I didn't think the extra money was worth it in my system. I'm very happy with my N200's sound quality. |
Heyya @audphile1 then you misunderstood my intent in that reply. I don’t prefer to segment quotes bc of how that can be misleading, but for expediency’s sake:
I believe it. You are N = 1 (sample size). And you gave no empirical evidence as to why that model was unfavorable. That’s not in contrivance to what I stated above.
Also fine. But also full of bias as is most any similar pursuit. Shouldn’t be stated to come off as factual evidence because it’s not. Nothing wrong with such an opinion so long as it’s worded accordingly. IMO. 😉
Aurender is not unique in this distinction. I do not argue the superiority of SSD implementation for file storage and retrieval - from a software standpoint alone it makes hypothetical sense. So opinioN = 2 here. 😉😉
And now we’re back to limited hearsay. I feel the same way only in reverse - I didn’t hear any 4-5 fig streamer that offered predictable audible improvements to justify price such extreme price discrepancies, but if such a thing is properly demo’ed (with evidence-over-opinions) to exist, I’ll be interested.
Just because someone holds a differing opinion doesn’t make it a “bad assumption”. The tendency of using “trigger” terms and overly-authoritative tone seems to go hand-in-hand for some folks. Why? This is just music kit for fun, whatever prices one talks oneself into. |
Pretty bad assumptions are made above, @benanders 2. I’ve used several streamers - Mac Mini, Auralic Aries G1, Lumin U1 Mini, Bricasti M3 built in network renderer, tried WiiM Pro Plus just to see what the hype is all about and to confirm its all hype. My current streamer is an Aurender N200. Few other points worth notng - the N200 has a slot for an internal SSD and that is the absolute best way to set up your local library. I loaded a Samsung SSD with my CD rips and it sounds amazing - much better than with an HDD connected via USB cable. The difference between the streamers is very audible and the components in the OP’s setup will reveal it. If there’s a three figure streamer as good as the N200 with the same features and build, I’d like to know what it is and where I can purchase it.
Source file is extremely important. But what you’re saying here is streamer, dac, preamp and amp don’t matter as much as the source file and I disagree. I can airplay a song from YouTube to my N200 and with its low resolution and quality it will sound a million times better than the best version of it played thru a garbage chain of components feeding the same speakers. Yet another bad assumption on your part.
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@jfrmusic please note the statements about your Benchmark kit stated up this thread by others, while worded with authoritative tones, amount to nothing more than anecdotal opinions and do not constitute facts. I do not argue their collective conclusion of your not needing a highest-priced streamer, however! 😅 The paradigm of proportionate prices among kit in a chain is never well explained or validated empirically by folks who promote it. You may not want evidence-over-opinion, in which case just disregard this reply. 😁
The reason you like the files on Qobuz could be as simple as they’re using preferable source files than those from your CD library; many folks complain about dynamic compression in newer masters / remasters, but many of these new renditions can sound surprisingly “present” through some systems. Source file should theoretically matter more than anything downstream in the chain, at least until you get to your speakers. So you might try to identify why Qobuz sounds better to you than your CD’s instead of trusting a particular dedicated streamer model to take things where you hope for them to go. Or not… 😉 |
@jfrmusic I probably did but I’m sorry, it’s been several years since I had the N200, I honestly can’t remember too much about that specifically. But again the DAC itself plays a large part in the quality of the USB input. So if Benchmark recommends the coax I’d probably let that guide your decision. |
Thanks to each of you for your thoughtful responses. You have given me much to think about. I guess it's possible that my system is not of a level where I will hear all the N20 has to offer. I currently don't plan on upgrading my Pre Amp, Amp or DAC at the moment as I consider them to be excellent performers with extremely low distortion and very high SNR. But who knows. As you all know nothing is forever when it comes to Audio components. I'm thinking that once I audition the N200 I'll like it so much I won't feel the need to go for the N20. Although one of the reasons from a feature perspective I like about the N20 was the OCXO clock for BNC and Coax. With N200 I'd stay with USB or possibly it's Coax. Benchmark told me that if you have a good Coax out the DAC3 Coax will perform better than the USB. BTW Roon not an issue for me. jimmy2015 Did you compare the N200 Coax with it's USB? |
+1 Spending $12K on a streamer is a waste of resources on that level of a system unless you upgrade everything (plan on spending $75K). Streamers do not contribute as much to the sound as a good DAC. I would much rather have a $2K streamer into a $10K DAC than the reverse. I currently run a $5K streamer into a $19K DAC and have no desire to upgrade. I am a person who is never satisfied and always wants the latest and greatest!
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+1 @ghdprentice Building a system is all about balance, and spending $12k on a streamer in your current system is over the top IMHO. You’re better off taking that other $6k and upgrading another component, adding room treatments, etc. The N200 is going to be such a big improvement over your computer it’s really hard to see you being disappointed or having buyer’s remorse. Go for it! |
Sorry, you asked what differences between the N200 and N20. When I used the N20 AES output upsampled, driving either a Denafrips Terminator (also using its upsampling) or Mojo audio DAC, compared to the N200 the sound is cleaner, clearer, more refined overall. These traits I value and one reason I liked the Benchmark equipment with Harbeth. Once I got a DAC that I would be using only USB with, I went to the N200. USB input will use the clock in your DAC as opposed to the one in the streamer. |
I’ve had Harbeth speakers with Benchmark electronics and think it is an awesome combination. Very synergistic. That said, Harbeth loudspeakers are not the most revealing speakers (the monitor series are a little more so). I think you would not hear a lot of difference between any of these streamers. At the level of your system, while very good but one I would describe as more musical than analytical, when choosing a streamer I would consider which features you want in the streamer more than sound differences (and therefore recommend you look at others in addition to Aurender). |
I own an Aurrender N100 and W20SE and have had significant exposure to the N10 and N20 as well as a number competing streamers. Aurrender would always be my choice. In general, each level represents a substantial improvement in sound quality, in all respects. More detailed, natural, lower noice floor, dynamics, and imaging. My digital end and my excellent analog end provide equal sound quality (see my virtual systems).
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