Lol ok I thought I was losing it…
Aurender Model Choices
Before I ask my question let me provide some context.
My system includes the following:
New MacBook Air Running itunes/Music serving hundreds of stored CDs
Macbook connected to my Benchmark DAC3 via Audioquest Coffee USB Cable
DAC balanced connection to Benchmark HPA4 PreAmp
PreAmp balanced connection to Benchmark ABH2 Amp
Benchmark Amp connected to Harbeth C7es-XD Speakers
This configuration has provided a neutral clean, and balanced sound. Really no complaints. However I wanted to add Streaming. So I Signed up for Qobuz and downloaded the App to my MacBook. Using WiFi I found that the Qobuz stream offered superior sound quality to my local CD library. Even Redbook CD quality was better plus the HiRes albums were really good
So now I need to get a dedicated Streamer. Using the MacBook is not convenient and from what I’ve read a Streamer should offer additional SQ enhancement. I’ve done a lot of research and really like the Aurender products plus when I recently purchased my speakers I auditioned them with an Aurender Model 100. The sound was excellent. I plan to go back in a few weeks to audition the $6k N200 model. I’m sure it will sound very good but I will be left wondering what does the N20 sound like? How much better can it be for another $6K? Unfortunately my dealer doesn’t have one to audition and neither does any other dealer near me. I’ve read comments on several forums that the N20 is twice as good as the N200 or that the N200 is nipping at the heals of the N20 or that the N20 just offers a 20% increase in SQ or the N20 blows the N200 out of the water. Without a side by side audition I’m struggling with paying twice the price without a demonstrable and significant SQ improvement. I would expect a SQ that once heard I could never settle for the less expensive model. In my recent experience a more expensive model does’t always win. When buying my speakers I auditioned the Harbeth C7es-XD and the more expensive 30.2 XD model. After almost an hour of back and forth I preferred the lower priced model.
So to conclude has anyone had the opportunity to audition the N20 and N200 together?
If so please Specifically what if any SQ differences did you hear and were they worth an additional $6k?
As I listen to my system streaming from my MacBook with wonderfully smooth, clean HiRes sound I wonder can I actually get significantly more improvement for $6k or $12K?
Thanks for any info and experiences you can provide.
134 responses Add your response
@ghdprentice app store latest version is the same as I have on my phone. Even if I remove the app and pull it down again I’ll still end up with the same version. No? |
Using N200 with a new Samsung Tab and on my iPhone 12 with no issues. I was using an earlier Samsung Tab but it wouldn’t run Conductor 4. It still runs 3 fine. I have had really good luck with Aurender. It’s been stable and the few times I had an issue it was an easy issue , pilot error , or they fixed it remotely. I’m not sure what other Streamers can be accessed remotely by the manufacturer but that to me is huge. |
@alfa100 MSB Discrete DAC with aurender N200 |
@jfrmusic congrats! Go to system page and you should be able to upload photos there. |
Finally got my Aurender N20 and MSB Discrete DAC. The MSB took 3 weeks to arrive. I’m running the MSB direct into my AHB2. Tried the HPA4 and direct method was significantly better. So far sounds really good will post more after I give it a break in time. But I can say the soundstage is excellent especially depth and the low end solid and impactful. Highs are smooth. Looking forward to see how it improves over the next week as it burns in. Already sounds better after 4 hours. How do I post a photo of my setup? |
Just received My new N20 Replacing a N200. The N20 is connected cardas usb to Holo May KTE. Using My Pass 250, breaking in new TRIANGLE - 40th Anniversary Comete EZ. I had been through a lot of streamers. From all the Eversolo models A6 to A8. I tried the Hi fi Rose 130 transport. It was pretty but it did not sound good in my system. Then I got a good deal on a Aurender N200 and bliss returned. Kept reading the opinions on the Aurender models and decided to try the next level. What a Difference!! The triangles and not suppose to be about bass, and they were not. Just a nice even beautiful midrange. That all change with the N20. They now sound like a sub is on. Really hard to believe the difference. Soundstage is huge and detail is much improved, shockingly so. I still would recommended the N200 to anybody, but the N20 in my system is on a whole different level. |
I used an N200 for about a year and then upgraded to the N20 (initially used with AES connection to Chord DAVE DAC). The first thing I noticed was a larger soundstage-both wider and deeper compared to the N200. Instruments sound a bit more natural as well. With the AES connection on the N20, I also noticed that the top end was a bit recessed though-compared to using the USB connection with N200 into Chord DAVE DAC. . So, based on a recommendation to use the Optical (toslink) connection from the N20 to the DAC, I heard MUCH more air and top end. This was a SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE- and sounds much, much better to my ears- better as in an entirely different unit. The kicker is that it was also recommended that using an inexpensive toslink cable (fiber optic cable) from Amazon - less than 10 dollars- would be fine. And it is! The N20 sound quality is now excellent. I'm still a bit shocked how much of a difference the Optical (toslink) connection makes with the N20 to Chord DAVE DAC compared to using a much more expensive AES cable. I highly recommend trying this method of connection if possible. |
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@jfrmusic,
Word Clock is automatically turned on when a word clock signal is detected on the BNC input. When Word Clock mode is on, the SPDIF output will synchronize with the word clock signal. For 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4 kHz sampling rate music, 44.1, 88.2 and 176.4 kHz word clock or a 22.5792 MHz master clock signal are valid. For 48, 96 and 192 kHz sampling rate music. 48, 96 and 192 kHz word clock or a 24.576 MHz master clock signal are valid. Click here for Conductor app settings please see Conductor App settings since I think something has to be turned on. This might be different between V3 and V4. Please verify by looking at the App’s settings. |
Thanks for all the information. Very much appreciated. Aurender has list of recommended SSD drives on their site. I got one of the Samsung units. I did speak to Vince about the word clock cable he said no specific recommendation. Said to experiment. I asked Vince if there were any strings I needed to make to use the clock. He said no. It will automatically sense it. So you’re saying there is a setting in the app I need to address to use the clock out? |
More info: The SSD Disk installation means you loosen the screws on the back of the unit, pull out the slot, insert the SSD, push in and tighten the screws (top slot is Music1). After I installed the SSD, I went to the Conductor App, settings, disk information tab to format the SSD. If, for some reason, the format command does not appear, please power down (turn electrical power off) and restart manually. Restarting takes time since the N20has UPS circuitry inside. I checked for software updates on the N20 (there were none) and deleted my old Conductor App and installed a new copy from the App Store on my iPad. Once your albums have been loaded to the Aurender Hard Drive, please back them up to an external hard drive. DO NOT FORGET THIS IMPORTANT STEP. NOTE: "In the Conductor app, go to Settings>Backup & Restore>Backup to Music1/backup. This will create a small backup file which contains your library database information including playlists, ratings, settings, and streaming "add to library" content. This backup file will be saved to your Aurender's Music1 internal storage drive in a folder named "backup." NOTE: this file does NOT contain any actual music files. It is only the library directory database". Maybe ask your retailer for more information. |
@jfrmusic, I suggest you ask Vince from MSB what word clock cable you should use between the Aurender N20 and the MSB DAC (highly recommended). Change the Conductor App word clock setting for the N20 to use the word clock option. I also suggest you ask your Retailer what hard drives (including sizing for your albums) they recommend for your Aurender N20 to include explaining the Aurender N20 Conductor App hard drive format instructions. Your Aurender Conductor App includes a Remote Internet Technical Support if you have any issues. This allows Aurender to connect to your unit, if needed. Please discuss with your retailer and read the on line Aurender instructions for transferring music files to your Aurender Music Server to include how to handle the album cover art. Aurender Music servers scan locally stored files for embedded artwork. If there is no embedded cover art for the file, then the scanner checks the folder the files are located in for a "folder.jpg","cover.jpg", or "front.jpg" (".png" files work too) image associated with the files to indicate a front album cover. When neither of these criteria are met, the software will display a generic image as album cover art. Unfortunately, some media software programs such as iTunes handle cover art much differently. Instead of using embedded album artwork tags, iTunes uses "sidecar" files containing album cover art and other metadata. Unfortunately, this data is not relevant or viewable outside of iTunes. This process is a little complicated so please confirm everything before you start the actual transfer. I suggest a test of loading 10 albums before you transfer everything. Click here for handling album cover art Click link for transferring albums to Aurender I suggest you connect to QoBuz first to ensure everything works and sounds great. After this, you can deal with setting up your hard drives and loading them with content. Please scan the Conductor App settings to ensure your settings are correct for your application. I hope this helps.
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“do i need an expensive cable” Simple answer is NO. Keep in mind, you are dealing with a sine wave that is easily susceptible to noise and jitter. Start with a generic 75 ohms cable and you may or may not appreciate any improvements over a very fine N20’s OCXO internal clock. The impedance and shielding characteristics of a clock cable are of utmost importance in maintaining the integrity of sine wave signal between the two devices being clocked. A better cable will allow you to appreciate the enhanced realism and transparency typically realized from a superior clocking system. BTW, you need 75ohm cable not 50ohm as I previously stated since Discrete DAC only has word clock output. As @audphile1 pointed out, settle in with your gear and address cabling at later stages of your journey. You can refer to my system when you’re ready to experiment with better cabling. |
@jfrmusic my recommends would be to start with a baseline level Ethernet cable like the bluejeans you had mentioned or even the Amazon Linkup cable. Don’t invest in switches or any other network tweaks. The MSB Discrete has a built in preamp section correct? So I would try that in place of the benchmark preamp. You have a digital front end that’s a good few levels above your amplification chain. See how the MSB volume control sounds vs the benchmark pre and layout a plan to upgrade the amplification next. Put the cable upgrades and tweaks on back burner for now. Just my $0.2. |
Thanks. One other thing I forgot to mention. They offered me discount on an expensive Cardas Ethernet cable. I declined. I want to start with the CAT 6 certified un shielded cable from Blue Jeans. Plus they were running plain RJ45 cable all over so that’s what I auditioned. I did order an Uptone Ethernet Switch. So I’m thinking that should give me a noise free connection. Also today I think demonstrated subjectively for me that more expensive equipment doesn’t always lead to better sound. Again subjectively. . Those very expensive Excelon speakers really overwhelmed the N30 and higher end MSB. Poor synergy can be a problem. This recreation of the live music experience in our home is truly an art and a science. |
@jfrmusic congratulations!!! That’s one heck of a digital front end! Enjoy it and keep us posted! |
@lalitk definitely worth trying. |
Ok I had my audition and it was quite an adventure so this may be a little long! Test 1 I started my audition with the Aurender N200 connected to an Esoteric DAC (not sure which model) then through a Hegel Pre and Amp feeding the Harbeth 7es-XD Speakers which are the ones I own. The sounds were very good with a nice soundstage and loads of transparency yet I noticed a little lower treble brightness on strings and the soundstage seemed to be overly lit up. They didn't have an Aurender N20 but did have a N30 in another room I asked to hear that.I thought the DAC or Amp may be the issue and not the Aurender. Test 2 This room did not have my speakers so many variables changed. The N30 was connected to an MSB DAC and I'm not sure which one but is was one of their multi box units. The Amps where some giant floor mono blocks that were about 2' by 3' and 6" high.which were feed by their their companion preamp. The brand began with a V but I had never heard of it. The speakers were large Excelon floor model units which sell for $110K per pair. So quite a different mix. Any way I can tell you and you may think I'm crazy but I preferred the sound in the first test. The treble in this room was more in your face and not as smooth and the bass while more robust didn't have a natural feel to me. Plus the sound stage while large just seemed off and somewhat exaggerated. Even my sales agent thought the same. This is a new speaker line they just brought on. Anyway I guess some like this type of presentation and are willing to pay a lot for it.I thought the Speakers were the issue in this test. Test 3 Went back to room one. I asked for the MSB Discrete DAC to be used with the Aurender N200. I asked about the Network streaming capability with the MSB to see if that would be an option to eliminate the Aurender. They said the MSB can only be used as a Roon endpoint. I was sure you could also use Mconnect but they were adamant about it. Now the Aurender N200 only supports USB and S/PDIF Coax. So they said they would need to add two inter connecting USB add-on modules to the MSB. I questioned the need for these two modules as the MSB site shows a basic USB module and an advanced Fiber Optic based two unit addition. The techs there said you can only use the two unit device to get USB. So we proceeded with the test. Let me tell you the MSB Discrete utterly smoked the Esoteric. No contest! In every facet the MSB was superior. Bass, Soundstage, Transparency, Imaging with a beautiful treble. No hash. No Grain. Just amazing. Just swapping the MSB in and the Esoteric out completely transformed this system. It shows how source is so important on one side of the audio equation and speakers on the other. Upon hearing this I asked for a package deal if I got the Aurender N200 and the MSB Discrete with the optional second power supply (which is how I was auditioning it) and the two unit USB upgrade. They gave me a fair deal but I wanted to think about it so I went to lunch. At lunch I decided to call Vince at MSB. And here's where the story takes a turn. I asked him first about the USB issue. He said yes there is an original USB module and a more advanced fiber based two device unit. He said the Fiber one was better but not significantly. He asked what Aurender I was considering. He said with that N200 model I would need at least the original USB module as USB performed much better than RCA Coax. BTW each of these add-on modules is $990. He said He uses the Aurender N30 with his own MSB units. So I asked about the Networking and he said yes it's a Roon endpoint but you could use Mconnect he but said it was complicated to make it work right and even he found it complicated. Then he said if you want the absolute best performance from the MSB use an AES connection. So I said then that's an advantage to using the Aurender N20 which supports AES. He said definitely plus you the can also connect the MSB clock out to the Aurender N20 clock in via BNC. He said their clock is superior to the one in the Aurender and that would give me another significant improvement in performance. He said this combination of AES and BNC would net a minimum of a 30% performance increase to be conservative but it was probably much higher. So he strongly recommended the N20 with the AES/BNC if I wanted to get the best from the MSB. So I went back to the dealer and ordered: An Aurender N20 MSB Discrete with the second optional power supply Hopefully will arrive in a week. Sorry for the long story but I wanted to explain what transpired. I want an endgame system for me. .And this I believe it it. Will maybe there's a still an Amp to be upgraded but that would be it. Be a happy to field any questions |
I have not heard MSB Discrete with MSB renderer but one would assume (given MSB immaculate implementation of these modules) that it shouldn’t sound any worse, different maybe but certainly not worse than when compared with Discrete DAC fed by N200 through its Pro USB module. For example, my Merging DAC sound pretty darn good with its embedded Roon Core + renderer but clearly Roon rendering is not in the same league as N30SA. The Roon option is only $3500 with Merging DAC, so it’s not a fair comparison but it sounds good enough for most end users 😊 I believe you had a similar experience with Bricasti’s network module. |
@lalitk that’s an interesting point. |
Aurender seems to favor the SPDIF/AES with the N10/N20's due to the high precision clocking in these units. With USB the streamer is somewhat at the mercy of the clock in the DAC. Given that AES is clearly the favorite of the folks who built both of these units I think you have to suspend the cost worries and listen to them together if you have the chance. |
I’ll be going to my dealer tomorrow to audition the Aurender N200 and possibly the MSB Discrete DAC. Here is issue I can see looming. I’ll like the N200 and the MSB but the MSB has USB as an option and is optimized for AES. The N200 is optimized for USB but does have regular Coax. If I decided down the road on the MSB I would need to add the optional USB module or if I planned to use MSB optimized AES then the Aurender N20 while more expensive comes into the picture. Or I could just pick a different DAC that’s optimized for USB. My second on my DAC list has been Meitner MA 3 which does have USB. I’ll let you know tomorrow what my what my adventure leads me to. |