Aurender Model Choices

Thanks. 
 

One other thing I forgot to mention. They offered me discount on an expensive Cardas Ethernet cable. I declined. I want to start with the CAT 6 certified un shielded cable from Blue Jeans. Plus they were running plain RJ45 cable all over so that’s what I auditioned. I did order an Uptone Ethernet Switch. So I’m thinking that should give me a noise free connection. 
 

Also today I think demonstrated  subjectively for me that more expensive equipment doesn’t always lead to better sound. Again subjectively. . Those very expensive Excelon speakers really overwhelmed the N30 and higher end MSB. Poor synergy can be a problem. This recreation of the live music experience in our home is truly an art and a science. 

@auphile1

Curious. Why did you switch from Benchmark DAC3 to Bricasti?

@audphile1 

Oh forgot to ask. Do you use it as your PreAmp?

I’ll be going to my dealer tomorrow to audition the Aurender N200 and possibly the MSB Discrete DAC. Here is issue I can see looming. I’ll like the N200 and the MSB but the MSB has USB as an option and is optimized for AES. The N200 is optimized for USB but does have regular Coax. If I decided down the road on the MSB I would need to add the optional USB module or if I planned to use MSB optimized AES then the Aurender N20 while more expensive comes into the picture. Or I could just pick a different DAC that’s optimized for USB. My second on my DAC list has been Meitner MA 3 which does have USB. I’ll let you know tomorrow what my what my adventure leads me to. 

@audphile1 

I can understand. The Pass is a great PreAmp. 
BTW. Your link doesn’t  work. 

I plan to ask for an Audition of the N200 with coax to a MSB Discrete which my dealer also carries. He doesn’t have an N20 but I think he said he has an N30. 

Also I sent an email to MSB and asked if the Discrete was agnostic related to input selection. I may call them before go to the dealer. 

@hgeifman 

Thanks for all the information. Very much appreciated. Aurender has list of recommended SSD drives on their site. I got one of the Samsung units. I did speak to Vince about the word clock cable he said no specific recommendation. Said to experiment. I asked Vince if there were any strings I needed to make to use the clock. He said no. It will automatically sense it. So you’re saying there is a setting in the app I need to address to use the clock out?

Thanks to each of you for your thoughtful responses. You have given me much to think about. I guess it's possible that my system is not of a level where I will hear all the N20 has to offer. I currently don't plan on upgrading my Pre Amp, Amp or DAC at the moment as I consider them to be excellent performers with extremely low distortion and very high SNR. But who knows. As you all know nothing is forever when it comes to Audio components. I'm thinking that once I audition the N200 I'll like it so much I won't feel the need to go for the N20. Although one of the reasons  from a feature perspective I like about the N20 was the OCXO clock for BNC and Coax. With N200 I'd stay with USB or possibly it's Coax. Benchmark told me that if you have a good Coax out the DAC3 Coax will perform better than the USB. BTW Roon not an issue for me.

jimmy2015

Did you compare the N200 Coax with it's USB?

Thanks again for the good information. I’m thinking the N200 will be excellent in my system. I’ll have some money to apply to cables. 

Thanks again for all the great responses. I’m gratefull to each of you for considering and answering my question. I really appreciate it. I think my current system is pretty revealing. The Benchmark products tend to be underestimated because of their size and price but I’ve not heard anything significantly better at two or three times the price of this stack (DAC3, HPA4, and ABH2) which cost close to $9k. Plus they are so easy to move around. However your points are well taken and the law of diminishing returns will most likely lead me to the N200 as I definitely want the MacBook out of the system as I know a dedicated streamer will offer better SQ as well as convenience based on my audition of the Aurender 100 which was an older discontinued model.It sounded very good. Better than my computer based system.

So one more piece of advice I seek.

To those who have purchased Aurenders can the Aurender models be purchased below List price? If so what can you tell me about what a fair discount might be?

Thanks again

@macg19 

Actually I just sold my two REL T/5x subs. I just could not get them smoothly integrated with my Harbeth C7s. Probably because the low end of the C7 is only down 3db at 45hz. Tried a variety of combinations of Crossover/Volume. Felt they just negatively impacted the natural soundstage of the C7s which have perfectly adequate bass down to 40hz. With my Spectrum analyzer I can even see some below 35hz output. The C7s just sounded more open and holographic without the subs. The RELs are really low bass reinforcement rather than true subs with their sweet spot around 35-42hz. So I think they were just mudding up the C7 low end.

Interesting approach. Amazing you gave up the N20. Maybe ask why you went this way? In any case thanks for the suggestion. I would rather have no Mac or Windows computer in the mix. 

@audphile1 

Thanks for doing the comparison. Can you tell me what DAC you are using?

I’m sure I’ll do the same comparison when I get my streamer. As I mentioned Benchmark recommended the SPIDF because of its patented “Jitterlock” feature on the DAC3 and said the SPDIF Coax would be better. So I will have to try both. 

@audphile1 

Thanks again. I’ve wondered what a reasonable upgrade path might be if in the future I want a better DAC. Will keep the Bricasti in mind. 

@audphile1 

Sorry. Must be doing something wrong. 
I get an err page when I click on System Details. 

@audphile1 

Finally connected using my iPad. iPhone no go.  Strange. 
 

You have certainly had quite an iteration of equipment. Very nice system. Are the PASS amps still there. Also how did you get those heavy amps home and into you room?

@audphile1 

After reading that thread where Benchmark and some users claim that the streamer you buy is irrelevant as the DAC3 will eliminate all noise and they will all sound the same. You I believe had the DAC3 with both Lumin and Aurender streamers. So what’s your take?

@audphile1 

Thanks again. In few weeks I will have chance to audition the N100 and N200. 

@dbt 

You have a wonderful system that I'm sure sounds fantastic. You mentioned you transitioned from the Benchmark DAC3 to the HOLO Audio Spring KTE DAC. I'd be interested in more of your thoughts on that move. Once I get the Aurender I plan to upgrade my DAC3 which I've had for the past 7 years. It is a very good DAC but I think DAC technology has improved especially with the R2R Ladder non Chip based DACs. So at the momentum the Holo Audio May KTE looks very appealing especially at its price point. Any impressions on how the Spring 3 KTE bettered the Benchmark DAC3 would be enlightening.

@dbt 

I’d forgotten about the MSB Discrete. I will check it out. The dealer near me where I will go to audition the Aurender also carries MSB. Will give it a listen. 

@dbt 

Thanks again for your thoughtful response. It’s always a challenge when considering a component upgrade that is basically fine but may now be surpassed by newer technology. The May might be a nice move from my DAC3 as would the Tambaqui or dCS Lina. But those last two are more than twice the price of the May. 
 

Too many choices and not many to actually compare side by side. 

@audphile1 Thanks for the warning

@dbt Thanks for all the MSB info. MSB may be too much for me at this point.

@audphile1 

The dealer is Overture in Delaware (home of tax free shopping). It about 30 minutes from me in Southern NJ

Ok I had my audition and it was quite an adventure so this may be a little long!

Test 1

I started my audition with the Aurender N200 connected to an Esoteric DAC (not sure which model) then through a Hegel Pre and Amp feeding  the Harbeth 7es-XD Speakers which are the ones I own. The sounds were very good with a nice soundstage and loads of transparency yet I noticed a little lower treble brightness on strings and the soundstage seemed to be overly lit up. They didn't have an Aurender N20 but did have a N30 in another room I asked to hear that.I thought the DAC or Amp may be the issue and not the Aurender.

Test 2

This room did not have my speakers so many variables changed. The N30 was connected to an MSB DAC and I'm not sure which one but is was one of their multi box units. The Amps where some giant floor mono blocks that were about 2' by 3' and 6" high.which were feed by their their companion preamp. The brand began with a V but I had never heard of it. The speakers were large Excelon floor model units which sell for $110K per pair. So quite a different mix. Any way I can tell you and you may think I'm crazy but I preferred the sound in the first test. The treble in this room was more in your face and not as smooth and the bass while more robust didn't have a natural feel to me. Plus the sound stage while large just seemed off and somewhat exaggerated. Even my sales agent thought the same. This is a new speaker line they just brought on. Anyway I guess some like this type of presentation and are willing to pay a lot for it.I thought the Speakers were the issue in this test.

Test 3

Went back to room one. I asked for the MSB Discrete DAC to be used with the Aurender N200. I asked about the Network streaming capability with the MSB to see if that would be an option to eliminate the Aurender. They said the MSB can only be used as a Roon endpoint. I was sure you could also use Mconnect but they were adamant about it. Now the Aurender N200 only supports USB and S/PDIF Coax. So they said they would need to add two inter connecting USB add-on modules to the MSB. I questioned the need for these two modules as the MSB site shows a basic USB module and an advanced Fiber Optic based two unit addition. The techs there said you can only use the two unit device to get USB. So we proceeded with the test. Let me tell you the MSB Discrete utterly smoked the Esoteric. No contest! In every facet the MSB was superior. Bass, Soundstage, Transparency, Imaging with a beautiful treble. No hash. No Grain. Just amazing. Just swapping the MSB in and the Esoteric out completely transformed this system. It shows how source is so important on one side of the audio equation and speakers on the other.

Upon hearing this I asked for a package deal if I got the Aurender N200 and the MSB Discrete with the optional second power supply (which is how I was auditioning it) and the two unit USB upgrade. They gave me a fair deal but I wanted to think about it so I went to lunch. At lunch I decided to call Vince at MSB. And here's where the story takes a turn.

I asked him first about the USB issue. He said yes there is an original USB module and a more advanced fiber based two device unit. He said the Fiber one was better but not significantly. He asked what Aurender I was considering. He said with that N200 model I would need at least the original USB module as USB performed much better than RCA Coax. BTW each of these add-on modules is $990. He said He uses the Aurender N30 with his own MSB units. So I asked about the Networking and he said yes it's a Roon endpoint but you could use Mconnect he but said it was complicated to make it work right and even he found it complicated. Then he said if you want the absolute best performance from the MSB use an AES connection. So I said then that's an advantage to using the Aurender N20 which supports AES. He said definitely plus you the can also connect the MSB clock out to the Aurender N20 clock in via BNC. He said their clock is superior to the one in the Aurender and that would give me another  significant improvement in performance. He said this combination of AES and BNC would net a minimum of a 30% performance increase to be conservative but it was probably much higher. So he strongly recommended the N20 with the AES/BNC if I wanted to get the best from the MSB.

So I went back to the dealer and ordered:

An Aurender N20

MSB Discrete with the second optional power supply

Hopefully will arrive in a week.

Sorry for the long story but I wanted to explain what transpired. I want an endgame system for me. .And this I believe it it. Will maybe there's a still an Amp to be upgraded but that would be it.

Be a happy to field any questions

@audphile1 

Yes that’s the plan. Starting with good quality tested cables from Blue Jeans to be used as a baseline before investing in anything else. I did buy the Ethergen switch because when I spoke to MSB they recommended it. They also said don’t go crazy on cables. 

@lalitk 

That BNC cable you referenced is $750. The BNC connection from the MSB to the Aurender is transmitting clocking. Not audio. So do I need an expensive cable?

Ok where is System page?

Finally got my Aurender N20 and MSB Discrete DAC. The MSB took 3 weeks to arrive. I’m running the MSB direct into my AHB2. Tried the HPA4 and direct method was significantly better. So far sounds really good will post more after I give it a break in time. But I can say the soundstage is excellent especially depth and the low end solid and impactful. Highs are smooth. Looking forward to see how it improves over the next week  as it burns in. Already sounds better after 4 hours. How do I post a photo of my setup?