Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

@rtorchia "I am still amazed at the vehemence of the attacks on Amir and his following on this thread. All he is doing is applying scientific criteria to his reviews of audio components."

If only... No, he is also stating his opinion on what a piece of equipment sounds like without ever listening to it.

Almost 20 years ago,  users here would have had good debates about the results ASR presented if it was around at that time.

How would you know ? Audiogon join date: October 1, 2022. Which is tomorrow. How old are you?

$150,000 of state of the art test equipment

$150,000 equipment testing $50 China DACs? Hmmmmm….. stupid 
 

If you are not enjoying your time on ASR, that is for one reason, and one reason only. Your arrogance.

How much do you enjoy your time on ASR? Please describe your pleasure and satisfaction. Be it physical or mental.

Whatever that is that you are having, I want to have some 😉

Does Denon even build anything that's any good, certainly not amplifiers.

Point to point wired analog equipment can far outlast and has been proven to outlast wave soldered circuit boards.

@quiet do mine

quiet:

"Odds are they will have issues. They seemed to have a SPDIF issue, was resolved. Not many other issues. Not defending them, but you are just spouting off with nothing to back up your position."

It is amazing how few people can read or comprehend posts. I really fear for the state of literacy when I read posts like this.

Anyway it looks like we have an escapee from the asylum who joined here to attempt to refute the irrefutable.

Anyway it looks like we have an escapee from the asylum who joined here to attempt to refute the irrefutable.

Yup. Typical ASR militia contingent. Involuntary celibate angry young dudes in their thirties, still living in their mom’s basement 

Is "atdavid" back or is that Amir?

All praise the great Amir and pass the collection basket.

$150k in test equipment he clearly is not qualified to use.

Enjoy the noise in the data. 
 

Simple is better for audio, the more complex the worse the sound.

@quiet, this thread IS a good debate. No one flamed any one, tolerance of viewpoints are accepted, what is the problem? Is it ... you don’t agree? Amir dug this hole himself, you don’t need to give him a ladder, NP. This isn’t boxing, the only "corners" are in your head.

@quiet Good bye 😘 Amir is calling you home.

Get your CC out. Drink the Kool-aid.

@quiet, do you want real "science"? You can find peer reviewed journals for that, NP. I'll post real links to real scientific journals, not the mumbo jumbo of a biased audio dealer (his words tell you he is a dealer and to read in as much bias as you want, not mine). 

Are you Amirs BFF, a fanboy, what? Why are you insulting @juanmanuelfangioii ? 

@quiet, now you are insulting the audiogon community??? compuserve? Really? Dude, if this community is not your thing, all good. If you want to participate, all good. Just show some respect. You have been in ASR way to much, that rude denigration thing may work there but it don’t serve the best interest of members here.

but I doubt the people here have the humility to accept they know far less than they think they do.

And you are showing humility by stating that you know more than them? You joined this forum to tell the folks about this? Interesting!

but large audio manufacturers respect his results.

Walmart is also large. Does not mean they make the best products.

@quiet, I gotta call you on BS. Everyone here needs to know that the only thread you have ever posted in is this one and it looks like you just joined today.

To legit members, just ignore this guy, total troll.

Speakers change timing?  Or are you saying something else changes timing. Digital audio is accurate to a nanosecond, vinyl 10's of nanoseconds, phase in speakers uSeconds. Are you telling me that the pace and rhythm of the music is changed by speakers? You realize that is that logical?

Qiuet,Speakers certainly influence the way we hear timing.Especially multi ways where time alignment of the drivers is hard to get right.It sounds slightly out of time because it is.Some designers like Duntech went to a lot of  trouble with stepped baffles and crossover design to ensure  time alignment.Other speakers like Tannoy dual concentrics have the benefit of physical time alignment .Rise time and impulse response  measurements reflect this time alignment.A great many speakers have quite poor time alignment because the acoustic centres of the drivers are out of alignment.Add to that other factors like phase response anomalies due to reverse phase leakage from ports.

@quiet 

That's why transistor amplifiers have been trying to emulate the tube sound since day one. 

@quiet ,

Large audio manufacturers are not trying to make the best products. They are trying to make the best products at a given cost target.

Exactly what I wanted to tell you. Everyone on ASR shops at Walmart. Nothing wrong with that. But if some of us here want to shop at a boutique or specialized store, please don't tell us that Walmart is good enough. I probably can go to Nordstorm, but will avoid Saks, maybe because it is beyond my pay grade. Nothing to be ashamed about that. But at least don't say that the grapes are sour.

@kota1 ,

Point noted. I saw that too and hinted on the previous post.

@quiet why would I have any test equipment?

I am not the unqualified person doing online audio reviews. 
 

Hey Amir is calling you home. 🦑 

For a guy who goes by the handle, quiet, he can talk the leg off a chair. 

He owns the best test equipment money can buy.

Was that after it was pointed out some time ago that the test equipment he used (at the time) was no where near the cost of the one John Atkinson uses or any of the ones at the time that cost way more than this?

All the best,
Nonoise

" I expect you know nothing about the failure rates of almost any audio equipment."

So the "quiet one" seems to think a 39% failure rate is acceptable for the PA5 amp. Wow.Of course John Yang only appears when he can criticise another company's products.

Quiet you said-"

"And proudly, because we all know that saying about opinions, everyone has one. They are pretty much worthless. ASR is quite happy to hear about listening tests, as long as they are only listening tests. It is not a very high bar. Perhaps for the people here it is too high a bar, but not for people that care about sound."

ASR is certainly not happy to hear about listening tests.I was permanently banned for daring to bring up the years of level matched unsighted group tests including listening and comprehensive measurements /reviews by panels of experienced listeners carried out by HiFi Choice magazine.Which is the largest data base of such informaiton available and which consistently reported significant differences between the sound of all classes of components and speakers and which showed a weak correlation between how things measured and how they sounded.So if you report anything that does not align with the pathetically small samples of blind tests ASR bases its narrative on including a quite ancient comparison of SS amps using a very odd speaker with a very abnormal impedance response you will be deleted.

Furthermore when the moderator/gatekeepers of this narrative disallow experience based opinions they have no idea of the level of expertise of the poster.They might be vastly experienced designers who have built highly successful businesses and be highly respected experts on how to make things that sound good.People like Nelson Pass and Herve Deletraz and FM Acoustics for example who have long held the opinion that a lot more than good measurements goes into creating good sound .These are amplifiers and preamps used by some of the world’s best composers and musicians.Not just some ’crazy deluded audiophiles"

The lack of respect and misplaced arrogance is mind boggling.But I guess a simplistic /black and white unsophisticated mindset goes hand in hand with an authoritarian mindset.

Djones51 is exactly right in his assessment of ASR aficionados posted above. My experiences with them have always been very positive. We can debate the relative value of science versus subjectivity endlessly but if people are happy with their components it’s a moot discussion and purely abstract.

But even ASR detractors here will have to admit that Amir”s analysis of manufacturer craftsmanship is extremely insightful and valuable to potential purchasers. You can’t argue with the guy when he shows photos of improperly wired connections, slovenly soldering, faulty grounding, cheap materials, etc. There’s nothing abstract about that. Do you want to pay a king’s ransom to some esoteric company for a poorly made component? Consumers deserve to know what’s going on inside that box.

Anyhow, I hope readers of this thread will approach ASR with an open mind and draw their own conclusions. Ours is a great hobby and there’s plenty of room for different perspectives. 

What esoteric components has Amir really tested, nothing high end.

@quiet When I read this topic and all the posts, it reminds me of arguments between theists and atheists.

To an outsider, perhaps.  In reality it is all prompted by an increase in scientific and  technical awareness thanks to ASR and a consequent rapidly diminishing appetite for uber expensive gear.  

Join the dots as to what motivation the ASR detractors real agenda is.  I don't think the most vocal posters are doing their cause much good, and in fact is probably encouraging many people reading this to check out ASR for themselves.

The law of unintended consequences.

So it is scientific class warfare. The “have nots” vs the “haves”

Really what he is doing is validating to his base that shopping at Walmart is okay. And that is fine but do not attack me for wanting to buy from a manufacturer that makes their DAC in Canada and it cost $10K and yes it sounds better than that $1000 DAC from China.

Amir is catering to his customer base.

He pushes his line of Topping products and disses well respected honest manufacturers with his flawed and smoke n mirrors test methods

ASR wouldnt be a thing here if they didn’t send their junior water boys over to poke the bear, especially if the bear would just yawn and carry on.

ASR has a purpose though. If I lost everything in a natural disaster or economic calamity and if I had been uninsured and if I had not been financially prudent throughout my life and if I had no other options, I might see what ASR recommended to hold me over for a few months until I got back on my feet.

@ghasley I would live with EarPod and a phone. 

@juanmanuelfangioii indeed. I could do it if I had no other choice…but luckily that isn’t the case. I just wish @quiet would finish cutting my lawn prior to engaging in an online flame war with the adults. 

@ghasley that is great could yo@quiet over to my house I have leafs that need raking. 

@juanmanuelfangioii I will but not until he finished his yard work, does his homework, takes out the garbage and flosses his braces.