Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy
"Audiophiles are Snobs" Youtube features an idiot! He states, with no equivocation, that $5,000 and $10,000 speakers sound equally good and a $500 and $5,000 integrated amp sound equally good. He is either deaf or a liar or both!
There is a site filled with posters like him called Audio Science Review. If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money. They also occasionally state that the high end audio equipment/cable/tweak sellers are criminals who commit fraud on the public. They often state that if something scientifically measures better, then it sounds better. They give no credence to unmeasurable sound factors like PRAT and Ambiance. Some of the posters music choices range from rap to hip hop and anything pop oriented created in the past from 1995.
Have any of audiogon (or any other reasonable audio forum site) posters encountered this horrible group of miscreants?
What if the "critical mind" is selling fairy tales? You get people buying fairy tales, In Amir's case he asks for the money in every "fairy tale" he puts on his site.
@4afsanakhan, first if you get subs get a pair. As for multichannel audio I personally prefer it and still listen to stereo. See my thread here on atmos music if you want to discuss more.
"Science" is published in peer reviewed journals. The guy at ASR is asking for money in every review and states upfront that he is a dealer and you can assume as much bias as you like. He can't even properly listen to components because he states proudly he doesn't like room treatments. It is worse than a joke because he has duped people into something like a cult of measurements.
@mitch2, have you seen the vitriol on ASR for people who don't sing there tune (or measure their tune, LOL). Are they afraid of something? Is Amir afraid of something? If you want "science" good, stick with peer reviewed journals:
@rtorchia, you said it it 100%, "they made you feel like an idiot". You aren’t alone, they denigrate anyone that disagrees. Amir doesn’t even use room treatments and disdains them, go log back in and make him feel like an idiot and see how he likes it.
There is no reason to denigrate anyone, including Amir. Fact is fact, he does pass the donation plate, he is a dealer, he openly tells you that you can read bias into his articles, he is a former microsoft exec, he doesn’t have any peer reviewed papers published in any respected "scientific" journals and he is yammering away and made you feel like an idiot, just saying.
@quiet, do you want real "science"? You can find peer reviewed journals for that, NP. I'll post real links to real scientific journals, not the mumbo jumbo of a biased audio dealer (his words tell you he is a dealer and to read in as much bias as you want, not mine).
Are you Amirs BFF, a fanboy, what? Why are you insulting @juanmanuelfangioii?
@quiet, this thread IS a good debate. No one flamed any one, tolerance of viewpoints are accepted, what is the problem? Is it ... you don’t agree? Amir dug this hole himself, you don’t need to give him a ladder, NP. This isn’t boxing, the only "corners" are in your head.
@quiet, now you are insulting the audiogon community??? compuserve? Really? Dude, if this community is not your thing, all good. If you want to participate, all good. Just show some respect. You have been in ASR way to much, that rude denigration thing may work there but it don’t serve the best interest of members here.
@quiet, I gotta call you on BS. Everyone here needs to know that the only thread you have ever posted in is this one and it looks like you just joined today.
To legit members, just ignore this guy, total troll.
@rtorchia you said Anyhow, I hope readers of this thread will approach ASR with an open mind and draw their own conclusions. Ours is a great hobby and there’s plenty of room for different perspectives.
ASR is a pay to play website. The members proudly display their "donor" badges like medals. They are even ranked by how much scratch they cough up. Now imagine an "open minded" poster goes their and posts valid metrics that don’t support Amir. ASR can’t let their cash flow source know that the what they bought and paid for (which they proudly display) is nothing more than one opinion of many, many, many which are very different. Ask those members to think for themselves, listen to new equipment in their own room, send it back if it don’t cut it and make a decision? Without ASR to tell them what to do? oh, the horror. Try posting anything like that and you get instant ban, no rhyme or reason other than to keep the paying members isolated and on the kool aid of Amir wagon train.
noske,I think that is a sexist comment "womens gossip". I am really surprised, shame, don't ever criticize someone using a term like chi-fi, just unbelievable you would post this.
Don't fall for the misdirection, ASR is pay to play, you don't pay, you don't post what is gospel at the altar of ASR= ban. Truth is not the friend of propaganda when you have a meter running and people laying out their plastic with NO idea where the driver is taking them. He is taking them "for a ride"alright', right into his pocket.
@laoman, thanks for posting that note, I had no idea the word is out about those members at ASR losing all that money for nothing but a crappy name tag on their avatar, just terrible. Hopefully a few of them read this thread and save some bank from the claws of ASR.
noske, have I passed the plate your way asking for a handout? The only "bombs" going off around here are truth bombs. Dude, I am only trying to save you some dough, unlike some people at ASR I don't need your advice, your capital, or obedience.
What measurement is there that will predict how a given group of components will interact with my room, my senses, and my content selection all at the same time?
Good luck with that much, and I didn’t even mention how it will please the personal taste of all listeners in the room simultaneously.
@amir_asr the militia is not nonsense, ASR is not what I call a forum, non conformrity is flamed, shamed, and banned, it is a firing squad. I think you allow it because if the people paying your bills get good information from other sources it won’t be profitable for you, what do you have to say?
@amir_asr, welcome to the forum, will you reciprocate and allow members here to post on your forum without instant bans because we have a wide range of opinions that may not be popular on asr as long as we are respectful?
You know, your members simply lose it if anyone likes a component that they have 0 personal experience with, but is simply popular to bash. Is this a dialogue that goes two ways or did you just come here to tell us that you are right and we are all wrong?
@smpratherwelcome to the forum, I see you made your first post, do you want to expand your audio experiences and knowledge with some different points of view? Please share your gear, your preferences, etc. and I think you will find the process very non confrontational and supportive.
Don't ever spend your cash on anyone elses evidence, just form your own evidence though auditioning gear and by using retrun polices, NP.
I really feel sorry for folks like you. Instead of sitting back and enjoying music, you keep worrying about the most mundane things like how your wires sound! Learn to take some things for granted. You know, like how you don't worry about the bolts that are holding your engine together while driving. Base your audio decisions on science and engineering and you become free of such anguish.
I suspect it won't be long until folks like you worry about your sock color impacting the sound you hear.....
Non-comformity is in play every minute on ASR Forum. As I mentioned, look at every review I do and see the volume of complaints about my review. Heck we have entire threads dedicated to people just complaining about us:
We will see if you walk the walk then, I will see you on ASR today using this same handle and if you can actually keep your word about and an open debate going without sending dissenters to the instant ban firing squad if they don’t conform to your opinion, no flame wars, just a discussion.
BTW, you never answered my question. Do you keep non conformists and dissenters out of ASR because it might disrupt your cash flow?
@amir-asr, I forgot to welcome you to the forum as well. Can you please post your personal system, preferences, and what you are trying to achieve? I think all of us here will be more than happy to be supportive in a non confrontational style.
For example, in your review of the Paradigm PW Link (which I also own and AGREE with your assessment, stone cold bargain, great room correction) you shared that you don’t/won’t use room treatments. This would be a GREAT topic to discuss in the appropriate thread. You can use room treatment and then place acoustically transparent fabric over them so they remain "invisible". If you like ARC or any DSP room correction you will find that it works MUCH better in a treated room.
Hey @amir_asr, I know there are a lot of tough questions here but no one is banning you for your answers. Please bring down the wall at ASR, let people that don't conform to your dogma (and don't pay for a name badge on their avatar) discuss respectfully. I think you will have more members if you include dissenters and not take a big hit to your cash flow, all good. This is not a one way street where you are right and that means everyone else must be wrong.
@smpratheryou said, "there can be no debate", is this why you came to a forum that hosts debates about audio?
Let's start with a discussion then. You saw @tonywingapost earlier, describing his system, the effort he took to make it the way he likes, the pics he posted. You saw @fleschlerpost about his background and experience. Let's just start with telling us a bit about your system and what you want to accomplish, OK? Feel free to start a new thread if needed.
@amir_asr, the walls are still up at ASR which is fine. If you came here to learn about audio that’s fine. If you came here to defend your reputation that’s fine. But if you came here to start an argument about why you are perfect and we are not let’s just set that aside for your forum at ASR.
The walls are still up there, you have really not discussed anything about YOUR system, what you are trying to achieve, etc. When you say:
"But instead come here to complain, acting like you know more than whole of audio science."
It comes off like
"... acting like you know more than me (being Amir_ASR)"
and you are referring to yourself as being the whole of audio science.
You still have not shared anything about YOUR system. Is it perfect? What do you own, why did you buy it, what are you trying to achieve.
There is no need to feel shy, we won’t talk down to you if it is built with components that are more entry level. You will find that many of the members here start with where ever they are now, take the collective "experience" (not just data) of the members here and increase their enjoyment of the music. Have you participated in any threads here besides this one? I think you’ll enjoy it.
@kokakolia, we will see how amir responds, I hope he didn't come here just to plug the leak in his collection basket. So far he has not posted anything about his own system, his tastes, what he wants to achieve. I don't think he has discussed anything audio related in any of the many other threads here. He certainly has not created a bridge between our forums and is still banning dissenters at ASR. Maybe he is a bit defensive still and will open up a bit and relax later and discuss more about his system, his tastes, etc.
@gxalan, welcome to the forum, I see this is your first post. Can you tell us a little bit about your system, your taste, and what you would like to achieve in this hobby? If you were on a desert island and could only bring three CD's, what would they be? If you had a fire and could only take one component from your home what would you take?
@kokakolia, thanks for the reply, maybe we will meet at an audio event in the future (it could be virtual but the champagne will have to stay on ice.)
@gxalan, thanks for the reply. I have a thread going elsewhere on this forum and I need advice about a mcintosh streamer/dac vs a just dac, feel free to post something over there, appreciate it. I have never tried mcintosh and am thinking hard about it.
@amir_asr, I have asked in this thread and through DM’s, is this a one way street where you come here and post or are you going to tear down the wall at ASR? No one is stopping you from posting here, why are you avoiding this (and many other) questions? Are you a drive by poster or what?
@amir_asr, uhhh this IS a place for proper discussion of audio science and engineering, isn’t that why you are here???
This is also a place for manners, happiness. civility, mutual respect. I went through the thread where they seem to be egging you on to participate in this thread at ASR. Is that the reason you are here?
I am all about the journey, I asked you what you about your system, what you would like to accomplish, etc. How is that not in alignment with the goals of both forums?
@amir_asr, I think the perception about ASR being a cash grab is a legitimate question. You do ban members with views that don't conform, you do pass the plate in every review, and as you often say yourself, you are a dealer and that visitors to ASR should read as much bias as you like into your posts. I get that the perception may be different from the reality but it is a legitimate question.
Now, are you finally going to tell us about your system, what you bought, why you like it, what you are trying to achieve?
If a reasonable person posts, they immediately tear him down, using selected words and/or sentences from the reasonable poster as100% proof that the audiophile is dumb and stupid with his money.
There is no denying this as true, it even continues in this thread right now with the "financially independent" as he calls himself @amir_asrlecturing us about money and audio. It never ends, unless uhhh what was that about someones pockets?
@amir_asr, I saw the pic of your system, can you comment on why you chose those speakers? I know they must measure nice but a lot of speakers measure nice. Why those? Are you here to discuss audio or throw rocks at the OP like a "miscreant"?
@amir_asr, I think Danny gets lots of customers who post a lot of good reviews, is a fair businessman, and a good communicator. Are you still upset with him over that falling out you two had? I saw him very sincerely reach out to you on his channel, can't you let it go by now?
@milpai+10, you nailed it, he can't reply to topics he knows nothing about on this site, where on his site he will just ban you so he doesn't reveal that his tank is empty.
@axo1989, welcome to the forum, if you look at the various threads here besides this one is there anything that catches your interest? Feel free to ask anything audio related you would like and I think you will enjoy the back and forth banter and the wide range of posters and opinions.
Speakers and headphones as you know have big differences from each other.
agreed
With other classes of devices, impairments get very small to non-existent.
Now that statement takes a leap of faith, no, a chasm of faith. Other classes of devices mean EVERYTHING except speakers and headphones? Please explain and if you have some evidence of this please post a link, don’t worry if you don’t have any of the accepted evidence here ,I doubt you’ll get banned.
I simply don’t have the time or resources for this type of testing.
Agreed, you are "financially independent" right? Outsource it or don’t do the review. Basically it reads like you are simply guesstimating these results and presenting them as fact. If I tried presenting such a sloppy review on ASR you know what happens? It rhymes with "tan". :)
@tonywinga Danny refers to "flat earthers" in this video about the evidence he presented on cables. You can take a wild guess who the "flat earthers" are, I have no idea, naturally, but apparently it did not sit well with "some" people, hence the attacks on Danny from the person in this thread who obviously is defending the "flat earthers" :).
I could ignore you all but thought there was so much misinformation that I should stop by and clarify.
You had to come here because this thread would be immediately taken down and everyone would be banned on your site. If you disagree keep open debates over at ASR and stop banning everyone. Then we could discuss on both sites. It would make your site better if you "listen" .
There is no technical topic that I am afraid of engaging in.
There are tons of technical questions in this thread that you seem to have avoided which is fine, I understand. But there are other threads on this site of a technical nature, No one is stopping you from technical debates here, when are you going to start?
In other cases such as speakers and headphones, perfection is not remotely there
agreed
I think your disconnect is that you believe marketing hype
I think YOUR disconnect is you believe your own hype
You know, what every audio company claims with out a single shred of proof. No listening tests for example that demonstrates anything.
You just made that up, for example you must know how Harman tests speakers and other products with blind listening tests. Do you think they invented it?
What is remarkable is that in audio, person after person comes to the defense of manufacturers,
You mean instead of attacking them like you do?
So much money is wasted because consumers have put their guard down completely and joined the other camp!
I could say the same thing, so much money has been wasted by the members of ASR on worthless name badges for their avatars, they could have saved so much money. Why do they come to the defense of someone writing sloppy reviews?
Show them independent testing and they scuff at that. "Oh, this means nothing can be invented then.
You do "independent" testing? Please post a link to something of yours in a peer reviewed journal like AES. Science, etc. BTW, links to the patents you have filed on your inventions would be nice too.
You might think you can hear my toilet flush from where you live, but you can't really.
That analogy just got a headless panther and it is starting to sound a bit desperate. I will cut you some slack but please, let's not go there, OK?
Why not spend your extra cash on music? Or a nice meal? Or a vacation? Must you go and waste it away on some new power cable? A DAC? Why oh why?
We are not all "financially independent" audio dealers like you that believe the subjective experience is a "fantasy" as you describe it. If you are so interested in my money start a new website, maybe "How to Get Rich Selling Subjective Fantasy's" (or name badges). It sounds very demeaning when you come here as a guest and proceed to start telling the actual members how to spend their money after flaunting your wealth in a previous post.
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