Audio Science Review = "The better the measurement, the better the sound" philosophy

I really admire ASR and Amir's reviews. It stands to reason that there is a scientific, measurable and objective way to rate audio components. But, we live at a time where people are hostile to science, and prefer subjectivity. In a recent review Amir examined a fancy USB cable and determined that it didn't perform any better than a generic one from Amazon that cost $8. The manufacturer made all sorts of extravagant claims about the expensive cable that were simply unprovable. 

But if the people here who like LPs, tube equipment, and expensive components that don't measure up so what? Beauty is in the eye--or ear--of the beholder--or listener. There isn't anything wrong with liking a particular sound even if it is the result of distortion. Expensive cables and such are really cool even though they most likely do nothing to enhance sound. But all this is insufficient reason to castigate Amir and his adherents. I am extremely pleased with the components I am currently using, all of which he recommended. All this is really tempest in a teapot. 

Invalid asks, "Did you try the fancy USB cable in your system and compare?  Did you compare your current equipment to equipment that Amir doesn't approve of?  Why would you assume tube equipment is adding all kinds of distortion?"

I had purchased the fancy USB a couple of years prior to Amir's review. I used a generic one that came with my secondary system DAC as a matter of curiosity and noticed no difference whatsoever. I ascribed this phenomenon to the possibility that my hearing was failing. Then I read the review and all was manifest--I heard no difference because there is no difference. But the cable in question is very cool looking so I kept it. 

I had a very high quality tube components one of which Amir reviewed (the brand is very popular here). When I bought my secondary basement system everything was based on Amir's recommendations and I was delighted with the new system, which also cost a fraction of the original one. 

Personally I like the tube sound but to my ears it is distorted, and I gravitated to the Amir recommended components because to me they sounded better. I kept my Larsen 6.2 speakers which I think the ASR guys don't like, but I enjoy them greatly. 

All this is a case of "to each his own," but my point is that to deny scientific objectivity is just plain silly. But of course some people quite reasonably may not like the sound that measures up and I understand that without criticism. 

I am still amazed at the vehemence of the attacks on Amir and his following on this thread. All he is doing is applying scientific criteria to his reviews of audio components. Additionally, he provides extremely valuable insights into craftsmanship that is often sadly lacking in high priced equipment. I doubt if any middle of the road ASR adherent would criticize someone who liked tube components; they would just note that the unit didn't measure up to scientific standards. It may well be that the most accurate sound doesn't sound as attractive as some tube component. Thanks to ASR I discovered class D amplifiers and am hugely delighted with my Purifi amp--to me, the sound is stunning. The site led me to RME and even Topping--the former is a wonderful DAC. People get emotional over the cable business but the bottom line is that the manufacturers make wild claims about their often monstrously expensive products that cannot be substantiated. Skepticism is a good thing, and just because someone gives you a lot of mumbo jumbo about some fanciful thing doesn't mean they are automatically right. To me Amir and ASR in general have demystified a lot of audio myths and I like that, even though he made me feel like an idiot for buying that USB cable. 

Actually the ASR people were very nice about the cable--I just felt foolish myself for getting talked into buying the thing and wasting $95. I'm not an audio engineer but it appears that Amir's reviews are quite well done. To me his analysis of the craftsmanship aspect alone is quite enlightening. He had a Nord amp where the negative and positive connections were reversed, and it was a review unit! As consumers we deserve to know that some mega dollar component shows sloppy soldering and such. I enjoy Amir's tear-downs in particular. I suggest that anyone interested in the field would benefit from reading ASR, even if they disagree with some of the site's positions. 

Djones51 is exactly right in his assessment of ASR aficionados posted above. My experiences with them have always been very positive. We can debate the relative value of science versus subjectivity endlessly but if people are happy with their components it’s a moot discussion and purely abstract.

But even ASR detractors here will have to admit that Amir”s analysis of manufacturer craftsmanship is extremely insightful and valuable to potential purchasers. You can’t argue with the guy when he shows photos of improperly wired connections, slovenly soldering, faulty grounding, cheap materials, etc. There’s nothing abstract about that. Do you want to pay a king’s ransom to some esoteric company for a poorly made component? Consumers deserve to know what’s going on inside that box.

Anyhow, I hope readers of this thread will approach ASR with an open mind and draw their own conclusions. Ours is a great hobby and there’s plenty of room for different perspectives. 

Kota1, the militia characterization is indeed nonsense. Yes, some ASR people use terms like “snake oil” that AG people may find offensive but it it is overall a fair and square site. One has to retain a sense of humor with all this stuff—what would any normal person not bitten by the audiophile bug think about someone who spends thousands of dollars on a cable without an iota of hard evidence that it performs any better than an Amazon basic one. It’s funny, and I can’t think of another hobby where this type of situation arises. 
 

I predict this thread is going to taper off now that Amir is providing such temperate and rational responses to critics who have misrepresented and misunderstood ASR   and its “minions” (who aren’t losing any sleep over being called that.)

Amir, your detractors here have a collective motto: “Don’t confuse us with the facts because we know we are right.” It is thus improbable that they will give you a fair hearing.

I don’t understand the rational foundations of the subjectivists here, if there are any.   As a disclaimer I admire Amir, ASR, and it’s many knowledgeable contributors. But I also like some components for extra-audio reasons that Amir would justly put on his reject list.

The subjectivists here seem to put great stock into human sensory perception, something that philosophers have been questioning for millennia. Sensory perception is highly fallible to say the least. When one puts a pencil in a glass of water it looks bent; we see mirages in the desert; amputees commonly feel the presence of the missing limb, etc., etc., etc. So along came science in an effort to establish deeper insights and establish some degree of objectivity. So knowing that our senses are so misleading how can the audio subjectivists rely solely on their hearing?  They also run the risk of encountering something akin to the Roshomon complex whereby a number of individuals have the same experience but interpret it in all different ways. Sometimes the subjectivists seem to be insisting that that pencil is really bent in that glass! Why would anyone reject science when, given the human condition, it’s all we have to attain some form of objectivity?

Given that the audio subjectivists are so skeptical of science, why do  they so readily believe wild and unsubstantiated claims concocted by manufacturers of all sorts of cables, power conditioners, power supplies, etc.? It appears that they believe in order to understand, thus putting the cart before the horse, which is a questionable methodology. 

Most of the subjectivists here, like the OP, are pleased with the components they own and that is very good. You like what you hear which is all anyone can ask. So what ASR says about your stereo shouldn’t bother you. If I had some of these systems, all connected with the most expensive and exotic cables, I’d sit back and enjoy the music, and refrain from insulting Amir, ASR, and most of all science.
 

The OP will have to admit that his original post was quite combative. He is very fortunate to have such a nice system and above all to be pleased with it. I think most ASR people would agree with that statement, even though they might evaluate the components differently because of their interest in science and engineering. Indeed, the OP was more restrained that many of the others, but all the vituperation against ASR isn't productive, and people are likely to be arguing about science versus subjectivism ten years from now. How many centuries have people been arguing about empiricism and religion? Burning people at the stake doesn't do anything. 

I guess I’m a mixture of both sides of this discussion. My primary system consists of all components that Amir recommended (and I am very grateful for his reviews). But my secondary system is powered by an old circa 2005 British made Creek integrated that I enjoy having and listening to. But no way it measures up to the Class D stuff, in my estimation.