Aren’t most better grades of audio devices fused at the point where the power comes in? I tried looking for a schematic of my Macintosh amplifier and I found one but it was a little fuzzy. It looked like there was a fuse that one across both the hot and neutral. So here’s my point, Are you bringing this power from the street then step it down at a transformer to 110 V and then it comes through your breaker panel, goes through the walls in the form of solid Romax then goes into your $800 power cord and then it runs into a fuse. The last time I looked at an audio fuse it wasn’t much bigger than a human hair. So you’ve got this alternating current going in and out of your amplifier which has the pass-through this fuse. It’s like a major choke point. It’s not like putting a bigger fuel line To a motor.
Are manufacturer AC cables good enough?
I have two PS Audio AC3 and two Pangea AC 14 cables I don't use. My thinking is that Ayre wouldn't supply cables that are inadequate for their components. Is that thinking flawed?
db
db
486 responses Add your response
Can someone please help me through the following line of reasoning: AC current travels 2-3 miles from a transfer station at 220 volts, enters my home into a distribution/circuit breaker box, travels through 45 feet of 12 gauge solid copper wire at 110 volts to a plug in my wall, into which I place a 3-foot long power cord..... How can this 3 feet of power cord transform the electrons that have come so far into some magical source of electricity for my components? It does not take much metal-to-metal connectivity to provide 100, 200, or 300 volts into a device..... |
I bought my first aftermarket power cords after getting a PS Audio power plant, the Stellar PP3. First, the cord the PP came with is pretty darn stout. I replaced it with AQ’s NRG4. I got two Shunyata Venom 14s for my Rogue Sphinx amp and DirectStream DAC (Magnepan .7 speakers). I have moved them around and don’t hear much difference between cables, but overall the system has what I’m going to call greater articulation. It’s just clearer sound. I’ve never used the $$$ cables so can’t say. But I suspect the “diminishing return” curve kicks in really, really early once a good conductor, insulator and connector are used. But I guess that depends on your definition of good. |
Thanks I watched Mr Winer's You Tube video. Smart guy. I had a friend over who believed all in science, being that upgraded interconnects do not matter. He wanted to try his DAC in my system, so we inserted it with his balanced interconnects. It sounded poorly compared to my DAC (to the two of us). Then I re-connected his DAC with my Audience AU 24 SX cables. Wow. It sounded better (to our ears). Easily. We switched back and forth. He was dumfounded that the interconnects made such a difference, as 'science does not support it". So, if it sounds better (in all the subjective ways) go for it and enjoy! If you do not believe, that is your opinion, or your science! Isn't subjective pleasure the basis of our hobby? |
I am new to home audio well sort of knew I enjoyed it when I was a kid back in the 1980s. As I got back into it I stumbled on this fight that everyone’s having over all of these cables. I search the Internet to find whatever I could to educate myself on what the difference was between stock versus aftermarket cords. I found two things. The first one was more manufacturers than I ever could’ve imagined and none of them had any kind of charts or graphs or information on how they could change your listening experience. It was all words, “like a much brighter soundstage”. What the hell does that mean? The second thing I found was a guy on YouTube who explains everything in layman‘s terms. His name is Ethan Winer. He has four or five videos explaining many different things about manufactures and designers and how they do things. Here’s a link to one of his videos. After I watch them and then re-watch them because a lot of the stuff went over my head I never saw the power cord dilemma the same. https://youtu.be/Zvireu2SGZM I’ll be interested in hearing what you guys think |
There are all kinds of AC cables touted by manufacturers to do all kinds of wonderful things to your sound. The AC plug that all these cables are plugged in to, are fed with regular household contractor grade 14awg cables that go through walls and studs and are stapled to secure them. How would a 10awg cable improve the flow of electricity after it is fed with a 14awg cable run that has many twists and turns and could be 30-40' in some cases. Makes no sense. Can a larger gauge cable clean up any impurities in your house line or allow more electricity when it is only fed with 14 gauge. |
Here in AZ, it's quite necessary to have a large home AC (air conditioning) unit. When my AC unit comes on, there is a momentary dimming of lights and even a slight flicker in the TV picture. The one thing, in which I detect no flicker of the lights, no glitch whatsoever in the sound or performance, is my audio system. I do have my system running through a moderately priced 15A APC power regulator/surge protector - mostly for surge protection, but I suspect that mostly the reason for my system's stable performance is do to the well designed power supplies in my components. JMO, if your very expensive amplifier requires a $3K aftermarket power cord to make it perform well, I'd trade that thing in for something that had a decent power supply and performed as intended out of the box, with the cord that was supplied....Jim |
@thyname OP -- I am very sorry the thread is hijacked (again) from the naysayers.The name of this thread is "Are manufacturer AC cables good enough?" The OP is asking for opinions, not a boiler plate answer of yes or no. I will say that although the formal definition of the word "naysayer" is not specifically related to religion, other than on this website I have most often if not only heard it associated with those who did not believe in a particular religion. I know it is just my hang-up, and I may be way off base here, but I find the repetitive use of the word by those who believe in certain tweaks describing those that do not believe in the tweaks as being just this side of disturbing. This post will self destruct in one day. |
OP -- I am very sorry the thread is hijacked (again) from the naysayers. Unfortunately this is the state of affairs in audio, every single thread gets hijacked from people who have zero interest in the subject. Yet, for some reason, they all flock to these threads, as if someone directs and flags them this way. I hope you got what you needed. |
“No, different means different. Whenever two things are different one is of necessity better, the other worse.” This statement is wrong. Vanilla and chocolate ice cream. Bordeaux and Burgundy wine. One is not “of necessity” better. They’re different. Difference does not necessitate superiority. Different:adjective 1. not the same as another or each other; unlike in nature, form, or quality. I have multiple systems that I’ve spent thirty years carefully assembling. The components were chosen for synergy with each other and the room they’re in. Solid state rig. Tube rig. Streamer. They all sound great, but they also sound different. |
I run a Lindemann, PMC, JL Audio system. Recently upgraded all my power cables to AQ and NRG. Was anticipating a big audio improvement. There was a slight improvement I believe when I switched back and forth between the stock and after market power cables. Not the "Massive improvement" toted by the cable manufacturers and testers of those products. Although there is a huge difference in the quality of the cables look and build. The NRG cable is truly a work of art so I am happy. |
I did try and I did hear...and not subtly.If you did not try in a blind controlled test then you're just offering subjective biased opinion.We ALL have subjective biased opinions when it comes to seeing and hearing the only way to know if something actually works is to remove the biases as much as possible. One of the best examples of conducting an ABX test is done by Floyd Toole when he was at Harman. It's controlled by computer and the results from blind compared to sighted is very revealing. It's and hour long if you care to watch it. https://youtu.be/zrpUDuUtxPM |
I went to such a test. About 50% picked the more expemsiver power cord. We did find a difference in interconnects, but only the very cheapest were picked very often as the worse of a choice. The others were about 50-50, with mostly guessing. There was never a consensus, except for the decades old, cheapest crap from Radio Shack. Basically, any cord with oxygen free copper was deemed somewhat better, but that could simply mean they were put together better, or had better insulation, etc. One exception: If your power cord runs parallel to your interconnects, or even crosses them, better insulation/grounding might help. |
I wonder how many of the nay sayers who claim power cables do not make a difference have even tried upgraded PC's? To me, they either have not tried or can not hear. And it is usually them who cite science to explain away any possible benefit. I certainly did not want to hear the difference I did, it would have saved me money. I did try and I did hear...and not subtly. I have dedicated 20 amp lines, and upgraded outlets. I still heard better music with better cables. Maybe audio manufacturers should take the approach of auto companies. They could sell a DX model, a GX, and a GXL. The base model would have cheap cords, cheap feet, less expensive connectors and a dull faceplate. The GXL would come with vibration absorbing feet, better connectors, a nicer faceplate and a metal vs plastic remote. Then everyone could be happy! Certainly folks who drive eco model cars think they are just as good as the nicer version, and don't appreciate the grippy tires, added horsepower, bigger brakes and navigation! |
No doubt there are many of you who have decided that throwing money at a power cord is a necessity. I almost did the same...almost. I was later told (by someone in Binghamton) that McIntosh power cables are specifically designed/included with their gear and that there is no need for aftermarket. I was advised to use the money for more music or other components. I took the advice.No Kool Aid here. |
My impression is that the folks at Ayre listen to and test their products very carefully. My one interaction with Charles Hansen convinced me he did. Ayre manuals recommend balanced rather than single-ended connections and often give other guidance about what they consider best practice, but nowhere in one of their manuals have I come across a recommendation to try another power cord. I think I answered my original question, but I'll try the AC3s with the preamp and amp just to be a good empiricist. |
PLACEBO EFFECT: The more you spend, the better it sounds. We trust the designers and manufacturers to make really good equipment. Would they really sell something as cheap to make as a power cord if it made their great design sound worse? It takes three months to break in. NO! It takes as long as three months for your credit card to automatically refuse a refund. Dealers like profit and reason for you to keep visiting. An expensive power cord is about as effective as the Scotch Guard on my Tacoma seats that I was charged for. The unused can of Scotch Guard was in a storage compartment, to be found months later. If an amp has a crappy power cord, what other cheapness is in the unit? |
If Ayre whose top line amplifier sells for around $35,000 tosses in junk power cords then I think I'll look elsewhere for a company that's tested all the parameters that can diminish the performance of their products. For that kind of money I expect a good power cord whose measurements equal or better anything put up against it. |
Of course subjective listening and opinion is vital too, but equal measure of science is often overlooked. There is a difference between "subjective listening " and "subjective measurements " the former can be dismissed the later is used along with "scientific measurements" in evaluating whether something has an actual effect. |
Yes, I believe that thinking is flawed. Most stock power cords are junk. MFG’s anticipate that you will be using a higher end power cord with their product. They don’t include a good one because it would increase the retail price of their product when compared to competing units that don't include a higher end power cord...which none do to my knowledge. |
| Post removed |
How about Auto manufacturers? I’ve seen some pretty mediocre tires come stock, and on higher end cars better rubber. FWIW, Naim who are fairly conservative. Offer their own upgraded power cables and interconnects, their engineers can hear the difference, so do PS Audio, and I’m sure a few others. Power cords that come with equipment are adequate, and if one thinks that’s all that’s needed then fine be happy, but don’t Be a Cable Cop ! |
You are calling Dow Jones an audiophile? LOL! It’s like calling a drunken homeless from the street a wine connoisseur. Dow Jones just posted a brand new thread with a link “proving” why a $2 (yes, two American dollars, like two dollar bills, or eight quarters) DAC is more than adequate https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-good-are-2-dacs |
dowjones, Some observations about that link... He really didn't get into how they actually sound... Weird, unless he doesn't really care about sound quality He did put "audiophile cable" in quotation marks... which is accurate because what he was testing was far from a high end power cord His set up is not optimum. For starters, that power strip everything is connected to could easily mask any real measurable differences. But even as *ssnine as his set up is, there was a measurable difference with the $20 "audiophile" cord I get why he did the article but don't know why any audiophile would bother putting any stock in his outcome, which apparently you do since you linked it. |