Anybody watch the Grammys tonight?

My take:  this site, or at least this thread, is full of "old white men" who have no clue.  In my view, of course.  

ps-I am in that category, age and race-wise, but NOT in the ugliness that is on display here.  Quite sad, and disturbing.  

@rpeluso   Lots of negativity here about what the Grammy's have become.  If you think back to what it was like a decade or so ago, by comparison, the current event is an angry rant-filled, politically charged spectacle.😞

What truly talented artists that are honored, and there are some, are dishonored by the snarky presentation.🤨

A tangible display of the degeneration of American culture.  Sad.☹️

@rpeluso i wish I could be like you.  I wish I had a clue like you do. By the way, admitting that you are an old white male doesn't in any way give you special permission to over generalize and stereotype others of your race and gender.

Did anybody see the "Katrina Aftermath"? That lasted for three days. People were denied the resources every citizen of this country is entitled to, and they drowned as a result of that denial; did anybody drown at the Grammys?

@rpeluso ,
Right now, I’m listening to Holger Czukay, The Edge and Jah Wobble trio. Prior to that I was listening to Tony Levin/Bozzio/Stevens trio
Prior to that I was entertained by Flora Purim/Airto.

TOUGH QUESTION:

How after that I can listen to any Beatles, Pelvis Resly, Boy George, Justin Bieberlake or Ricky Martin and what it has to do with time?

PS. Please Include there Frank Dinatra.

Rpeluso,
I am neither old nor white. Resorting to silly stereotypes reveals more regarding you than those you chose to castigate. Okay so as you state  you're "old and white" does this grant you the self righteousness to put down others who express a perspective different from your own. Some of us were turned off by the political rhetoric and said so. If you weren't that is also fine as it's a matter of choice.
Charles 

Okay I will admit the '' street walker '' comment may have been a little too strong, but she is still talentless.     

It may be a stereotype, but go to any audio show and you're surrounded by older white guys.  And it's not like this is the first thread on Audiogon to lament the decline of Western civilization at the hands of young, non-white entertainers.  It's not really that surprising that there's an overlap.

Youth is wasted on the young. 😛

At one point in my life I listened regularly  to rap and hip hop but my tastes have changed (my wife still likes some hip hop occasionally). I find jazz exponentially more fulfilling and substantive,  just superior music but I admit this is just my personal opinion.  I have zero objection to what other music lovers enjoy,  taste is taste.  

It seems clear to me however that artists being celebrated for their musical/professional achievements is an entirely different matter than exploiting the setting/platform for tiresome political dogma.
Charles 

Geez, you could also say all cultures are banal. It doesn’t mean anything. If you said pop culture is banal, well, then we might agree. Besides the US assimilates cultures, you know, a melting pot. So be careful who you’re calling banal.  Here’s a question, who is the customer for pop culture?

You could say it, but you’d be wrong .

On the whole, I’d much rather be banal than _______ . 😬

Here we go again, condemning the “white guy” for criticizing a culture that celebrates grotesque overt sexuality (which is anything but sexy) and minimal talent seemingly because the “stars” of that culture (in the case of the Grammys) happen to be mostly of color. Does the fact that I find it shameful that the greatness of true artists of color is not taught to young people and celebrated to serve as an uplifting example of what is possible make me “clueless”? I don’t think so. Btw, I also don’t recall anyone mentioning color before the “white guy” comments started. Isn’t that the way it often is? Just who is it that always seems to view everything through the prism of race? When more understand the answer to that question is when the culture will become better and more enlightened.

Frogman, 
As you surely know we are in the era of identity politics so white folks (particularly men) are fair game and attacks toward them are encouraged.  As a "person of color" there's undeniable  irony  that I come to their defense but I detest dishonest and destructive ideological BS. 

The idea that if you are white you can't be critical of the behavior or actions of people of color is nonsense. People can most certainly be judged on both their words and actions. I don't have any reservations about criticizing white people when I believe that it's appropriate,  the converse should be equally acceptable. 

Frogman I share the same disappointment regarding the (appalling) lack of knowledge, respect and appreciation for the many outstanding genuine artists of color who's legacy is virtually forgotten by the majority of their descendants. 
Charles 

There are still genuine artists as they’ve always been in any time of day of different colors and cultures
Grammy does belong to “white people” in the sense of their show off life style not really color

What you can't be critical of is cultures that are what they are because of
 long term oppression by others .

If you have no true understanding of Historical forces you will, at best, have a 2d view of a 3d world .

"Those who do not understand history remain forever a child "
  Cicero

No cultural behavior is immune from criticism based on  observational behavior or customs particularly if such behavior is detrimental to some of its members. I based this on my own urban experiences (Detroit and Chicago) circa 1960s-1970s. I cannot speak for the childhood/youth experiences of others here. Only my first hand exposure. Schubert I suspect our backgrounds are probably quite different and no doubt informs our respective viewpoints. No problem. 
Charles 

I could not agree more with the relevance of the history of it all and that consideration of that history and compassion for the ill effects of oppression during that history are more than warranted. However, why is it then that so many of the issues that come into play, everything from the quality of the music to the strength of values that promote success as a foil to oppression were less of a problem, not now, but at a time when the oppression was truly rampant? I don’t claim to have the answer, but given my own life experience as a minority I have learned that, ultimately, every culture has to take responsibility for movement toward something better. As concerns music, the specific topic most relevant to this thread, we are speaking of individuals who are multimillionaires and have benefitted greatly from this (in their case) “oppressive” environment. Is it possible that maybe, just maybe, it’s possible to be too compassionate?

czarivey, you are quite correct there are genuine artists of every color currently.

If you are suggesting that “true tough love” means to insist on some level of accountability, that is what I’m saying and we agree. If you are suggesting that “true tough love” means to not hold those previously oppressed accountable for negative and destructive behavior today then we disagree. Again, why now more than before? I submit it is in part because those (us) outside of their community are making too many decisions for them; a form of oppression unto itself however well intended the effort may be. The idea that there is no room for criticism because of oppression previously suffered strikes me as very condescending of those that one is trying to shield from criticism and opens too many doors for potential abuses, political and otherwise. By that logic there is no room for criticism of the very society (American) that perpetrated the oppression since that society was itself founded as an escape from oppression. I understand very well what you are saying and I admire your level of compassion. I can only speak from my personal experience and what I see around me. As a legal immigrant to this country who had to escape one of the worst possible forms of oppression (Communism) and who came here without parents and without a cent in my pocket the idea of society insisting on “helping” me beyond helping to get me on my feet would be unacceptable. Again, why now more than before?
Regards.

LOL. 

Gripes about pop culture and rap.  A lot of "get off my lawn."

Somehow I'm not surprised by this on this site (given the general demographics of audiophiles).

I'm certainly no fan of everything on the Grammys...but is there anything more tired and predictable than complaining about awards shows?

Every year.  Every single year that I can ever remember:  "The Oscars and Grammy shows are sh#t!"

I know, I know....get it off your chest ;-)

Schubert, you can not possibly be a historian. Your lack of understanding of the causes of problems in this country and the world is truly staggering.

Genocide and slavery were introduced to this hemisphere by European countries and since its inception the US has struggled to overcome the terrible legacy that we inherited when we became an independent nation. The US has committed atrocities itself, no doubt, but they pale in comparison to what the European countries did to indigenous peoples in their colonies throughout the entire world.

I could go on, but this is an AUDIO forum. We come here to discuss AUDIO. Please understand that and post your criticisms of our country in a forum designated for that purpose. Not this one.

What’s this, the Dr. Phil Show all of a sudden? 😢

Excellent and appropriate choice of example as a vehicle for your sarcasm! Yet another example of a misguided and condescending (not to mention farcical) attempt at “helping” others.

Btw, I thought Chris Stapleton was pretty good and deserving of the recognition he got at the Grammys. I remember not long ago that popular country music was generally considered very inferior to the then current “pop”. Ironically, much country music today is leagues above most “pop” music as concerns level of song writing skill, singing and instrumental playing.

Good post, bdp24.

Where else in America do people with legitimate careers pat themselves on their own backs as much as the entertainment/political machine agenda does? There are so many award shows on television that it can make one sick. Kids growing up today emulate these people thinking that there is normalcy to it..in it..of it. Self righteous attitudes on display in all walks of life are killing our children’s path to moral awareness..kindness..and youthful joy.
Just look how the fashion industry brain washes young woman into the false concept of how thin they must be in order to fit in to their skewed counter culture. As a parent and grandparent, all I can do is pray for a better way,not only for America, but the whole world...

So true, frogman. All the good professional songwriters are in Nashville now. When Al Anderson left NRBQ to be a full-time songwriter, he moved there. The studio musicians who played on all the singer/songwriter albums coming out of Los Angeles in the late 60’s and 70’s are in the Nashville studios now. Bassist Leland Sklar, who was on Jackson Browne, Linda Ronstadt, and Carole King albums, is now in Nashville. His drummer/partner on all those albums, Russ Kunkel, is in Lyle Lovett’s band. Los Angeles still has a very healthy underground musical community and scenes (a Brian Wilson-obsessed Pop one, an Americana/Hard Country one, a Blues one, a Surf one, a Punk one), but it is just that---underground, invisible to all but the dedicated, hardcore music lovers.

Bring back the SEX PISTOLS!!!

Bring back the SEX PISTOLS!!!

I think they are all on Viagra now, no?

"Viagra Pistols" ???

ozzy

Firing blanks for sure.

I understand Johnny Rotten always wanted to be either a historian or a Buddhist monk. 

You hang in there Schubert, I'm with you all the way. Nobody here has ever heard of "Cause and effect".

Schubert, people are more programmed than computers; nothing ever changes,  they give the same tired answers, but when huntin and fishin is their thing, what do you expect.

"huntin and fishin" more programmed stereotypes?
Orpheus10, conversely you could be accused of tired and worn liberal/leftist cliches with a myopic view of those with different perspectives. It cuts in both directions.
Charles

Charles, the left has been declared a greater enemy to this country than North Korea, there is no left,we have been destroyed by both parties; that's because both parties are owned by the oligarchs, and when we point this out, they find ways to destroy us.

How about every ethnic or social group have their own music awards show and then everyone will be happy?

The melting pot has melted when it comes to pop music it produces these days.

The more people mind their own business the better off everyone will be.

Its not like a random sample of folks are chosen as the electoral college for giving music awards. 

Hi Orpheus10,
I believe that Tom Perez, Keith Ellison,  Elizabeth Warren and Maxine Waters would take issue with your assessment. 
Charles 

It was watched by 20% less then last year. This year political BS 
 many so called talents as in much rap  I don’t agree ,nor understand or want to .
compare back in the 60-70s for example R&B soul  these groups had great voices , musicians as well as classic sing writers. Smokey Robiinson ,Sam Coom, OtisReading ,Marvin Gay , Barry white ,booker T ,The temptations ,4 Tops 
Earth Wind And Fire Tower of Power Isley Brothers.  Herbie Hancock 
just to name a few . Today I donot see any on par . Bruno Mars is a very good talent ,not my cup of tea but ,I stil give credit where due. JZ $100million
for What ? I am totally baffled I don’t hear any semblance of  musical talent.
most certainly  not even close to the late Great Michael Jackson. I am from the classics baby boomer era . I am just too spoiled with all the Greats I have seen 
and appreciate greatly .

Nothing at all.   

Who are the customers? Follow the money. 🤑

Five Minutes in I was Puking

Haven't watched it for years...just not that entertaining anymore.

Celebrities sing and act mostly.  Then when put on an awards stage they have to do something other than that.  What do they do?  Try to come across as being more intelligent than we (in the audience) are by expressing a political opinion.  Got news for them, voice and acting talent does not a political science expert make.  And, as we all know, opinions are like buttholes...everyone has one and yours doesn't make you special.

orpheus10 said..."that’s because both parties are owned by the oligarchs, and when we point this out, they find ways to destroy us."


Not to mention the Bilderberg group is alive and well... as are the Bohemian Club members consisting of major political and business peoples.

America needs to wake-up...
https://vigilantcitizen.com/sinistersites/sinister-sites-the-georgia-guidestones/

I have never seen the Grammy Awards ever. I do not watch television, nor do I own one, but every time I hear the word Grammy, I think about an interesting event that I heard about that occurred a number of years ago. Maybe late 80's, or early nineties.  There was a category that had something to do with heavy metal. Maybe best band, or album. Not too sure, but Metalica  was bested by Jethro Tull. WHAT?? Jethro Tull in a heavy metal category!!  Kinda makes me laugh at such miss categorization from an awards show that is music specific.