Adding a Dac and Stresmer

@wsrrsw Aurender N100H and Lumin T2

@mhutama What Aurender? What Lumin? 

Aurender is an excellent streamer with a great app. A big improvement in sound quality from Bluesound Node2 and has a detailed and natural sound as opposed to overly warm sound of Lumin streamer that I used to have. 

You can consider the Musician Pegasus DAC which is an R2R DAC, and a SMSL SD-9 streamer. The streamer even supports I2S, and so does the DAC. I2S is sonically superior to other interfaces.

Bryston was mentioned, they make great sounding products and an excellent company too. Ayre is another company you may want to consider. A friend of mine uses an Audionote DAC and really likes it. 

@gilaad Thank you for sharing your impressions about the Holo Audio Red. I'm also interested in purchasing it for my second system (home office). A couple of questions if you can answer them ... can it act as a Roon endpoint? Also, does the IS2 out work with Denafrips DACs like Pontus 2?

And here I am, reading stresmeter... thinking "dear, I need one - that I would most likely never read..." Oh, well. Cognac is good. If weather did not go "f@ckyall", I'd be having a nice double maduro cigar on my patio. I have a nice pair of Focal speakers there...
Oh, yes: in the main system I am using Magnum Dynalab MD806t - but that is only for internet radio, FM and streaming my burned CDs (I have it all stored on NAS). I do not like an idea of a monthly payment for anything, including music and especially TV... When you combine all of those monthly payments over just one year, it surprises you how much they are milking away from just one family. However, maybe I am not that good example of an average consumer. We all have different priorities, and I am guilty as charged: my everyday cartridge is Koetsu Rosewood Signature. I am sure I could have bought a nice DAC, streamer, and maybe one year of streaming for the same amount of money. 

@soix I never actually tried it without the LPS as I had it already set up and just plugged it in.  My guess is that it was an incremental improvement but my real surprise was with the Sense app and the quality versus using Roon.  I didn’t want it to be given how good the Roon interface is but the sound quality difference was obvious.

And thanks for the heads up on the Pontus firmware upgrade.  I read the string discussing the pros and cons on here and think I'll wait until the consensus is clear!

If you can find one used, I would highly recommend the MSB Analog DAC and Power Base with their renderer.  It is a great DAC/streamer and fantastic 3D soundstage.  I upgraded to that from a Naim NDX which was also a nice DAC/streamer, but not in the same league as the MSB Analog.

@tom2441 Nice!!!  Did you notice a big upgrade adding the LPS?  I know it’s a big upgrade for the Zen Mini but you’re the first I’ve heard who’s added one to the Pulse Mini so very curious about your impressions.  Careful with the Pontus upgrade — some say it adds detail but sacrifices some of the warmth they liked while others really liked it and not sure if you can switch back after the upgrade.  FWIW. 

@soix   This is the exact digital front end I am using, Innuos Pulse Mini to Iris to Pontus II via I2S.  The Pulse Mini running the Sense app was a big step up from the Roon Nucleus I was using as a streamer with Roon even though I am a big fan of Roon. I also have a Keces P3 LPS powering the Pulse Mini.  Very resolving and hard to beat for the total cost I believe (especially used).  My next step is to install the Denafrips firmware upgrade for the Pontus II that is supposed to be another improvement in performance.

@gilaad 

I seem to be heading down a similar path as yourself. Can I ask what I2S cables you are using (assuming that I2S is your choice) at the moment? What else have you considered? 

Thanks in advance! 

I have to be honest. I did not know anything about streamers and dad's. My first system consisted of ML ESL !! A's and a Linn streamer. The system has expanded but the streamed is still in play. It has the ability to act as a streamer/amp, a streamer/pre amp, or just as a line source. I am very happy with this streamer

Hi, I use the Holo Audio May KTE DAC ($5000) and recently got their Red streamer/DDC ($1000). Both are hooked up to a tube pre and a tube amp. The sound is amazing. Deap amd wide Soundstage with great sense of space, great instrument seperation. A full bodied, lush and as natural as I ever experienced sounding combination. I also have the Lab 12 Reference DAC and it sounds thin in comparison to the May.

@Silverfox:  you are correct, the Auralic via Upscale only charges shipping.  Nice tip, thanks!

Depending on budget I would agree about Pontus II as best bang for the buck in your system. If you can afford it the Venus II is noticeably better but only by a few percent depending on the resolution of your system.

A Lumin U1 Mini with linear power supply is more than adequate. Or the newer U2 Mini.

I have a Lumin U1 (full size) running into a Venus II into Icon Audio Stereo 300 mkII  (sometimes Stereo 40 mkIV) and Forte IV speakers in my main system now. The system is more resolving and musical than you could ever imagine those fun speakers being capable of.

I think you can get the Auralic at upscale for a 60 review with no stocking fee. Double check first …

Right now for DACs I am thinking about the Metrum Pavane, Pontus, AND Holo audios May Dac…Streamer Auralic G1.1 ….that could all change when I hear back from someone….

The Goldnote looks like a excellent Dac, I like the switch that turns off the preamp section…first impression..

I'm also in the market for a DAC and streamer, and I want to keep them separate components as well.  My pre is a venerable Proceed AVP and a BPA2 dual mono.

I don't use the DAC in the BlueSound node as it sounds like fm radio compared to the DAC in the AVP.  The Digital out is decent, however not great in that either. As an example, I ran a digital out from a NAD c542 CD player into the AVP and it also sounded better than the dig out from the Bluesound. 

So I'm hearing my Bluesound node is the limiting factor in my audio chain.

Speakers are Focal Aria 936.  I'm told the Denafrips Pontus is a good match for the somewhat bright sound of the Focals, and I'll likely go that route.

Streamers, however are very much up in the air.  I'm was surprised to hear a difference between digital outs between the NAD c542 and the Bluesound Node, and the 20yr old CD player sounded better than the BS node. the NAD c542 isn't renowned as a great CD player... imo.

So, the digital feed CAN be heard and can make a big difference if your overall system is sensitive enough.  Also, the pairing and overall synergy comes into play. 

Would love to hear comments of Auralic G1.1 Vs.  Cambridge CXN v2.  Maybe I'll start a thread on that.  clearly those two devices should be in different weight classes, and I wonder if the Auralic is 3x or 4x the sonic improvement. 

The Auralic G1.1 is very well reviewed here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JogQq-H7Mw

The Gustard DAC here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_YWaOc7nhU

ABA may be an industry shill for all I know but at least he does differentiate the levels of equipment and he articulates the sonic characteristics of gear as well, which I find very helpful.

Auralic has a 10% restock fee, so if you don't like it, that restocking fee is significant.

Was going to recommend Goldnote DS10 ($3000) + PSU10 Evo($1400) at your original budget.  Simple one-box DAC/streamer with optional power supply.  I have this combo in my big rig as a roon endpoint.  A few months ago I did a DAC shootout with a friend: my Goldnote vs DCS Bartok (his) vs Okto Research DAC8 Stereo (mine) vs. Mytek Brooklyn (his).  I actually preferred the sound of the DS10 over the Bartok - to my ears the Goldnote was a more “musical”, fuller sounding DAC.  The Bartok spanked the other two DACs.  (And for the record, my friend preferred the Bartok.  We were listening in his system, which included a Boulder integrated and Avalon speakers.)

I did up my price range to 7000 to 8000, I am thinking maybe the Auralic Aries G1.1….some where in that range…

Pontus is great sounding DAC with lots of flexibility and potential. For streamer I would suggest to look towards units with separate linear power supply. I think your price range will allow it. 

Sgreg1,

I agree that the Gustard R26 is a very good DAC that should be in the conversation when looking at R2R DACs, but don’t agree with the blanket statement “almost all preferred the Gustard” over Denafrips. Which Denafrips DAC are we talking about? Did they do a side by side comparison in their system?

There are four recommendations for the Denafrips Pontus II just in this thread.

For R2R DACs In addition to the Gustard R26 I would recommend considering Holo Audio Spring III and May DACs, Musician Aquarius, and Denafrips Pontus II and Terminator series…..all of which I’ve demo’d in my system. I can’t recommend more than that, as I haven’t done a head to head comparison.

Happy listening!

@silverfoxvtx1800  Airplay means you are pushing that signal into your system.

With a dedicated streamer and DAC or a streamer/DAC you will use yr. Phone or IPad to have the streamer put out a far better sound

I sorta went down that road at first. Not knowing what I was doing, jumped into the deep end before learning to swim. I have the Uniti Atom the model that takes speakers, I put it on the PrimaLuna EVO 400 amplifier, it’s just ok, also put it on the PrimaLuna PRE and amp, it’s pretty good. I have another place to put the Atom so I am getting something else..I really don’t like having two volume controls…one on Atom and one on the app,sometimes the app volume control didn’t match and it can get loud when you first power it up..the volume control is better with the preamp…anyway it’s going to my wife’s craft room..

Upscales advice is the PrimaLuna EVO 100 Dac and the Cambridge Streaming unit…I am undecided on that route, I even know where I can get that Dac it’s a store demo at a dealer for $800 of the list price..one thing I know I going to up my budget to $7 or 8…which is fine if I can figure this out without making a mistake…another deal is the Klipsch Forte IVs, The Atom sounds a little bright with it, they are very detailed and can get bright with the wrong set up…get it right and it’s heaven…

I have a good friend who has a Metrum Acoustics Pavane and Metrum Ambre streamer..I am thinking about…

Everyone is giving awesome ideas…

I will throw out another option which probably is not what you are after but might consider. The Naim Uniti Atom HE which is a preamp/DAC/streamer that is really outstanding. Great reviews, great PRAT. The preamp is class A.  If you purchased your PrimaLuna gear from Upscale Audio, you might visit with them whether this is a step backwards in your system, or whether they would allow a home trial.  I realize that this is out in left field, but if you like it, you could come out ahead by selling off the PrimaLuna preamp. I have not heard an r2r DAC, but seriously thought about trying a Denafrips or Holo Springs. I use this in a den system as I wanted fewer boxes, and have not been disappointed in the slightest. You do not seem averse to more boxes, and will likely come out ahead with another 1-2 and your budget.  Just trying to keep the discussion lively haha. 

@silverfoxvtx1800 

Reading through the reply I noticed one from you that stood out and will have a huge impact in your choice. “Thanks a lot for all the suggestions, I spend about 8 hrs a day with my music so this is very important…”. You need to focus on a combo the will not cause listener fatigue, that sharp edge digital sound that makes you want to walk away after an hour or two. This points me to narrow your options to r2r dac. I can tell you from other discussions that you should look at Gustard R26. I have this with fmc and external clock and I can listen for hours and have to pry myself away. Many have compared to many Denafrips dac’s and almost all preferred the Gustard. This is not an easy choice and it took me over a year to pull the trigger on the R26 and I have zero regret! Enjoy the music!

My Marantz integrated is capable of streaming and has a decent DAC for the price point but I recently picked up the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 to try out and have decided to keep it. The price had dropped after CA introduced their lower line AXN streamers so that helped justify the trial as well.

It’s DAC is better than the Marantz and I can definitely hear the difference between the two. The CXN is cleaner, more detailed and better soundstage and as a separate it’s not competing internally with itself like the the Marantz IMO. I run my CD transport through it and CDs sound better vs directly to the Marantz. The CA StreamMagic app is pretty nice and access my private digital library much better.

The access to digital radio is also nicer than what Marantz’s HEOS platform offers.

I can also continue to use Spotify premium plus access to all the other HD services. And it’s Roon tested if I decide to do that down the road but honestly I don’t see a need to for me personally.

Overall I was on the fence about it at the beginning but after 2 months of trying it out, it’s a keeper and I enjoy the tactile qualities of the unit itself. The interface and knob are high quality, as is the remote. All around I’ve been impressed w/ the CXN and I don’t feel like I overspent or underspent. It’s a Goldilocks component in my book.

Thanks everyone for all the responses, I definitely have a feel where this is going…

What do you think of a used Metrum Acoustics Pavane and Amber streamer?

LAB 12 is way better than decent .....   have you heard one Audioman?     It's a sleeper,  

Hifi Rose is. Is detailed but not very organic and natural vs a Denafrips terminator 12 th, or even better the. T+A 200 dac ,  for midfi it may be ok but not. In the $600+ 

level. Lab12 is decent but still a step or 2 below the above dacs.

Yes Aurenders are not cheap , but I got a great deal on a N200 and have zero regrets.   Super high build quality, great App, sounds great, excellent support.     All that all up and it is a good value.  

Hi Silverfox.     The only direct comparison I have made in my system is LAb 12 vs RME.     I did listen to the SimAudio DAC and Merason DAC 1 during demo and thought the LAB 12 was the most natural sounding.   Merason was really good but I preferred the LAB 12.   I didn't think it was "expensive" compared to the Merason at $5500.     

I bought it thinking I would be back within a year to trade up to so etching 2X the cost...    I really like this DAC so I am pretty sure I'm keeping it for the long haul

If one can look for a route outside of the usual trail. There is a option that can prove to be a real contender to the Hi End offerings and maybe prove to be a End Game if all options for the devices are adopted.

A Aqvox DAC MkII with a Mutec 3+ can be found if a search is undertaken for approx' $2000. There are a few mod's that can be added, both internally ( will need a little help from a EE) and externally (such as a LPS) at a cost of approx' $500 for parts and supporting labour if required.

Once experienced in the home system, the road to find the devices to surpass the above two devices in use, will be quite long. If the modifications are adopted, the idea of searching for a alternative might be over for many years as said even End Game might be the discovery.

+++++ Denafrips Pontus II (12th anniversary). I run a Bluesound Node 130 with LHY linear power supply, USB to a Denafrips Iris DDC, and I2S to Pontus II DAC…..and it sounds really really good, and has a stellar interface, $2,600 all in gets you there.

 I know there is better sound to be had from an Aurender, 432 Evo, Innuous, Auralic, or Lumin. I can enjoy the great sound I have for now, while I save up the 5, 6, or 8 thousand it will to get to the next level. Then I’ll decide if I’m going to keep the Iris or not

As mentioned Wiim Pro is an excellent streamer I got mine going to Cambridge M200  DAC  into a Luxman preamp.

They are expensive 

Aurender is superb. Not to mention a great app interface and fantastic customer support.

I usually just use airplay or quboz…what are you going to do,with the Aries?

I have just bought an Aurender streamer ( not yet received) to replace an Auralic Aries, not because of SQ issues but mainly because I am sick of the substandard Auralic control app. From what I have read the Aurender app is considered as good as or even better than Roon by some users. I guess I will find out soon. While this seems irrelevant to the post I am just suggesting that if you are into classical music and want to compile a comprehensive favourites library on your streaming service then be aware that many apps just don't cut it as far as cataloguing and searching are concerned.

In your budget a combo streamer/DAC has some great choices. 5k will land you well.

Consider amongst many..

Lumin new or used

Brooklyn bridge

PS DirectStream DAC used

HiFi rose touted up above

Buy good Ethernet cables and hold off on learning about signal in optimization.

Aurender streamers/DAC are excellent but will not work with Roon You may find you go that route too. Many do. Qobuz has a free thirty day trail.. others too

+1 HiFi Rose 150b

I really like my Hifi Rose 150b. Streaming Qobuz the sound is very good. Check out the reviews.

I will say it again: you can build a nice  ROON+DAC setup for $5K 

If you don't mind the used market, you can't go wrong with the naim ndx streamer dac combo for under 2 grand. Has a nice app for android too. Pretty versatile and easy to use. 

@troidelover1499 Try the Zen Mini with a LPS and then report back.  The Node is not in the same league as the Zen Mini.  And the Innuos Sense app continues to improve and sound even better. 

I agree with the people recommending the new Node with power supply upgrade.  I have this, and the sound is very very nice and in fact nicer than the Innuos Zen Mini I also bought some time back.  The Bluos is a really nice user software program it is very easy to use and can save favorites conveniently.

Thanks a lot for all the suggestions, I spend about 8 hrs a day with my music so this is very important…

I am using a MHDT Stockhom 2 DAC with my tube setup.  Check it out nice full rich sound, good bass, wider soundstage