Active Speakers Better? No, per Michael Borresen

If you want full range the JBL M2:

So a Klispch Hersey lV speaker isn’t a full range speaker because it only goes down to 48hz?

Well, I have Heresy IIIs and they are much better with a sub...so yes. My personal minimum is 36 Hz but don't ask how I came up with that.

I wouldn't listen to anything that paradigm has to say their best speakers are very bright and edgy with that beryllium mid-range and tweeter definitely not high-end audiophile quality speakers. and extremely overpriced.

So a Klispch Hersey lV speaker isn’t a full range speaker because it only goes down to 48hz?

Active speakers not as good ,for the quality of the amplifier is night and day better with separates of good quality , I am not saying digital amps are all bad but n a speaker you are never getting their best efforts. The speaker cables too need to be of good quality ,any worthy Audiophile would already know this.

@russ69 , IDK about choices being limited

The LS-60 was the only one I could think of.  At 45 Hz the PW60 is not a full range loudspeaker in my opinion. 

kota1,

  If I were to start all over again, the total price wouldn't bother me so much. In fact, if this an item that spells out the answer for audio in the long run, likely money would have been saved. Really, just look at the total spent on audio over decades in our systems. And in the case of speakers, I have kept one pair (coincidently the one that I posted about here) for well over 10 years. It wasn't until I started to build speakers again that I sold these, of course at a loss, and tried new designs. 

   It is too late in the game to start again considering my age and hearing. In the end, I am glad to have the chance to have so many experiences with all audio, i.e., not just in stereo/music but the observation of it in daily life. 

Dynaudio sells both versions, here is their take:

Active speaker makers might disagree. 

@4krowme , you mentioned Bryston, check out their active speakers:

https://bryston.com/active-loudspeakers/

@russ69 , IDK about choices being limited, maybe not as common though, yes.

You have the pro gear and you have the new "simpli-fi gear" being offered now by more vendors all the time which bundles everything into the speakers like these:

or these:

@lonemountain +10, that is a lot of great info, are you an engineer or designer? Interesting point about speaker and amp designers as my vendor, Paradigm, does happen to make both (Anthem amps and Paradigm are owned by the same group). 

There are very limited choices of full range active loudspeakers. Lots of choices for bookshelf and monitors. 

I second the spirit of Eric's post. In fact, I am waiting for glue to set as I type, on a set of passive loudspeakers in the shop. 

  It has been several years since I experienced the active loudspeaker idea. I was working with an engineer in Tucson who is brilliant with the technology of an active design, yet, in my application or use of such speakers, I still preferred the passive design that originally complimented these speakers (also designed by him).

 The active crossover chosen was made by a company that was popular but not impressive in build quality IMO. Bryston amps were used for power to all drivers. Balanced interconnects were used throughout, and I forget which AudioQuest speaker cable we chose.

 In a word, I found the result too dry for my taste. Again, the passive crossover was my preference, even though as stated before, they are rough in comparison of what can be accomplished with an active line level device.

It doesn’t matter. It all depends and people go round and round.

The active speaker argument holds up really well in professional environments which need lots of power. Thats the only place where active is 100% better.

I have made passive 2-way speakers for my mains and planning a fully active 3-way for the center. In each case there are pro’s and cons and I know I’m trading off.

I think asking a manufacturer why don’t you make an active version, or why don’t you make a passive always elicits this kind of response, that what they are selling is best, and that’s the way of the world.

The consumer should go with what sounds best and what complexity levels of wiring and amplifiers they want to live with and fuss with as audiophiles, but anyone who tries to sell me that "technology x is always better than technology y" is not going to get an active engagement from me, it’s not worth it.

A shout out to many audiophile tinkerers who enjoy configuring drivers and horns and multiple types of amplifiers and are constantly switching out to try something new.  There is nothing wrong with that at all and you should enjoy it. 

PS - this kind of arm-chair tech discussions are exactly why I feel our community is served when more audiophiles build something themselves vs. rely 100% on marketting and media.

Remember, Borresen is also Ansuz cables and power supplies and Aavik amplifiers, so if he's really taking that stance, it's worthy of note.

In contrast, YG Acoustics just teamed up with Bel Canto and Cambridge Acoustic Sciences to produce the Vantage Live line of fully active speakers.

The additional wire and type of wire should NOT be passed over, there are many measurements to indicate the issues there.  Dampening factor losses, power losses, capacitance added with length, etc are the simple issues.   There are more complex ones as well.  There is a long list of differences detailed by so many in cables, how can these differences suddenly not matter when discussing active vs passive?  

In addition to the issues of wire and which ones sounds "right" or wrong, there are even more issues/problems:

1) phase: you cannot adjust driver phase in passive.  A phase linear speaker system is very important to best possible sound.

2) Changes with heat and temperature of drivers: as drivers heat up, they change properties and interact with a passive crossover in a way that can change the crossover point, the sensitivity, etc.  The long and short of this is that the speaker sounds different "hot" (on for 5 hours straight) vs. "cold".  Not true in the same way with an active system.  Most passives are NOT phase linear because you cannot have precision in adjusting this phase via passive components.  With active, its easy.

3)The driver never "sees" the amp: there is a significant amount of stuff audio is traveling through (wires, inductors, coils, connectors, etc) permanently between all the speaker drivers and the amp.  How can this be said to actually improve transparency?  The obvious answer is it doesn't improve anything.  It also makes it difficult if you replace drivers that have ever so slight difference in sensitivity: this is not adjustable unless you reengineer the entire crossover.   

4) Adding a bunch additional circuitry seems to be a negative in almost all situations, many electronics companies talk about reducing the circuitry to improve performance.  Why here, in this amp to speaker location, is it pitched as BETTER to add bunch of extra parts ?      

5) If you are a speaker designer, that doesn't mean you are also an amp designer and vice versa.  So most speaker companies must go elsewhere for amp designs, making the entire project more complex and involving more engineers.  Few have both disciplines in the same house.  (Genelec and ATC were the pioneering companies in active and their founders could do both).

Comment?

Brad

@onhwy61 , +1, I agree with all of the advantages you mention about active speakers as well as the space and savings on separate amplifiers and speaker cables. Each of these speakers are internally biamped and I have a lot of speakers. It wouldn't have been practical to biamp 13 speakers with external amps and the long runs of speaker wire. 

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/paradigm_active40.htm

@invalid , the active speakers have the amps inside, like a studio monitor. They have both XLR and RCA inputs, a high pass filter that can be engaged when using them with a sub, and knobs to adjust the volume and contour bass and treble. The controls are useful to really dial in the speakers when you place them.

The center height channel is connected to a Dayton monoblock with a crossover setting and volume control. This helps me blend it the the active center channel. Here is a shot of the amp on the back of all the active speakers:

To put it bluntly, passive crossovers are crude.  That's why some sophisticated audiophiles prefer no crossover loudspeaker designs.  A line level crossover can be much more precise while doing less damage (adding distortion) to the music signal.  Couple a line level crossover with multiple power amps and it's possible for the designer to have more control over the final sound.  The synergy is built into the loudspeaker and the audiophile doesn't have to search for some magical pairing of loudspeaker and amplifier.  Active loudspeakers definitely have the potential for better sound compared to passive designs.

 I wasn't aware of this   ":His statement flies in the face of what passes in most audio corners as commonly recognized facts.   " 

@kota1 

Are you using the same amplifier with both active and passive speakers?

Each designer has to work with what they got, for Michael, passive must be better for his designs.

I own both active and passive speakers. If you listen to acoustic music at low volumes I don’t think you could tell the difference. Dynamic music and music at higher volumes sounds better to my ears with active speakers. This is the active speaker I own and it has a passive counter part (Paradigm Active 40 vs passive 40). Guess which one Paradigm says is better (and has measurements to prove it):

"But active loudspeakers have some distinct advantages over their passive counterparts. In fact, when I asked the designers at Paradigm which technology was better, active or passive (since the company makes both types of speakers), I couldn’t even finish my sentence before the word "active" was rushed back at me. There was just no second thought about it. But why?"

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/revequip/paradigm_active40.htm

Active or passive are equally good. Doesn't matter at what end the amps are placed. Speaker wire should be a non-issue. I hold that it is all transparent to the source and therefore of no consequence. Only the neurotically obsessed fixate on the length of speaker wire as a tone control, which is eliminated by going active. If you must have active then I recommend a pair of Genelec monitors.