Where does it fall on the ruthless scale? |
Ruthless would not be the way I’d describe it. As the old as the saying goes, think iron fist in a velvet glove. It was never shrill, grating, or etched. It just simply got out of the way of the music like I’ve never heard.
The CDs that Tony recorded had all manner of percussion instruments, the likes I’ve never seen before. I say seen, as Tony had some videos he shot of the performers sitting on the studio floor with all their instruments strewn about. They’d just pick something up and play against each other in an impromptu manner, and still be in sync.
So for me, ruthless doesn’t quite describe it due to it’s negative connotations. The only downside I can think of is that I wish it were a floorstander as I’m very fond of that big sound I get from my JBLs. There’s that bit of heft that it’s missing but in my medium-small apartment, I think the bass was easily down to the 50s as I had no problems filling in the rest. It was only after they were gone was when I appreciated, again, that fulsome sound of the JBLs.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Well, only because I feel invoked, wouldn't the word "engaging" be a better one-word summary of your experience?? How about "transparent?"
:-) All in good fun.
Best,
E
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Coo. Do these speakers have a name? Something people might buy? Are the older Tonians your current speakers?
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@erik_squires , Understood and appreciated. 😄
I just needed something to ground it to for references sake. Transparent, engaging, even bracing would describe them.
@mapman , Tony has a working name that appealed to me.
It's Oriaco G6. I sometimes wish I still had the TL-D1s. They did lots of things right and reflect Tony's design parameters of clearness, accurate tone, no overhang (think start and stop on a dime), and all the things he hears in his recording studio recreated in his speakers, as best he can.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Those Tonians always interested me. Never have heard a pair though. |
How was the Breaking Bad soundtrack? Which season?
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It's from the first season and it's just the intro that's played on all the episodes. It's loud, grungy, and peppered with lots of instruments all doing their own thing, seemingly incongruous but they all gel at the end.
It's a short and good demo for any system.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Always on the lookout for a transparent but revealing standmount speaker that translates true reproduction of voice and musical instruments, especially piano. So, how does it compare well known west coast speaker builder Fritz and his Carbon 7 mk ll or Carrera BE speakers? Always on the lookout for great handmade speakers |
Good stuff. I recently received Tony's Drum's and Bells CD but have not had a chance to listen to it yet. Tony emailed me soon after I got it to find out what I thought. I felt bad that I wasn't able to play it for awhile due to system repairs but it was so cool how hands on and caring he was.I have Mezzo Utopia's but was very interested in his speakers but he didn't answer my question about them.
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I can't say how this speaker compares to Fritz's speakers but I did ask Tony if he knew Fritz and he did, but that was about all he'd say. I got the impression that Tony thinks his speaker is better, and not by a small margin.
As for not discussing his speaker, it might have been all down to timing. Tony takes great care in sourcing his drivers and puts them through their paces. One that he likes is a newer one from Fostex but he said they have this crazy business model. Here is a great midrange driver that's almost full range but Fostex only made about 500 and allocated 300 to Europe and the other 200 for the rest of the world. They have the baskets, driver material, magnets and everything they need to make even more (the demand was high) but instead, they just scrapped the line and started on another one.
He's got his eye on some new drivers for a future build but it doesn't always go as planned. Being at the mercy of a supplier that will suddenly cut a line of product is not reassuring.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Ribbon/woofer as with the TL-D1s'?
Just curious....*s* |
It's actually a dome tweeter. I can't remember the brand but it is off the shelf (readily available) and it has all the air and ambience you'd need and zero bite or edge. I'm still scratching my head on that one.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I would too, on that....considering being the ribbon fan I is. *G*
Tony just must have made a good call for the proper 'convergence'; most domes just make me *sigh* and walk away...;) And I don't blame him for going mute on the Xover, because he's right.
As for the 'bottom basslines', one could always add a subtle sub and let ones' mind drift elsewhere....
"Happy as a puppy with two p.. p..s." 🙄 Oh, puleze....you wouldn't know which leg to lift, either. *LOL* And I'd keep the JBLs' too...
Don't mess with what works for you. I have in the past, and regretted it. We learn backwards too often... |
I wholeheartedly concur. I've done things backwards enough to last a couple of lifetimes.
As for my JBLs, they're staying as I've gotten some pretty great results with the Isoacoustic Oreas under my gear. The resulting focus shows just what is masked in those CDs as it's got lots of depth now.
All the best,
Nonoise |
(Yes, I know I typically post late @ night. Another strange convergence that I'd be afraid of....and Not due to C19 isolation....
I have No 'short stories' about my circumstance...*L*) |
@nonoise :PS called up Tony today today. He's a great guy, very personable and sent me pics of his new speaker (pretty sure he took them at your place). Beautiful craftsmanship, clean, simple and elegant. Around $3K he said. Trying to get him to send me a pair to try (I live on the other side of the coast). Be interested to see how they compare to the Fritz speakers. |
@phill55,
Yeah, Tony is one of the most down to earth guys you'll meet. The $3K price sounds about right but I really didn't pay attention as my focus was just on the sound (part of my rationalizing process).
I think he only has a couple on hand and people are interested once they hear them and tend to buy them after auditioning. Good luck on that front.
All the best,
Nonoise |
I have had many speakers in my 2 listening areas in the last 20 years from Martin Logan cls, quad 63, and several magnepan models, and many conventional cone speakers with metal, Kevlar, carbon, and plastic drivers. I am only listing the panel speakers models because the list is short.
My favorite speaker since 2006 has been the harbeth shl5, they were very coherent had good tone and rhythm and decent bass for their size. I have listened to the Wilson Sasha's ,Bowers and Wilkins 800 series, Focal higher end models and many more. What I wanted was a little bit more speed and detail in the midrange, which the harbeth lacked. The problem with most modern speakers were they had the speed and detail, but the only problem was they only sounded great on certain audiophile disc.
My budget for a new set of speakers was about $15,000. I went to many dealer's and audio shows around California and heard things that I liked, but not enough to sell the Harbeths.
I happened to to visit a friend in Ventura who had a pair Tannoy gold speaker and really liked what I heard. We played jazz, progressive rock, pop, soul, and folk. The vintage speaker had touch and dynamics that modern speakers do not, granted they dont image as good as a modern speaker and the highs are not as smooth and extended , but they made me want to pull out every album and cd that my friend had.
When Harbeth came out with their new shl5 plus I was excited When i read the initial reviews, I thought this was probably going to be the speaker I have been waiting for. So when I went to the audio show I can't remember if it was ces or Newport Beach I was shocked to hear them, they sounded brighter and more detailed, but they lost that lovely tone that the old ones had. I stayed in that room for at least an hour and went back a couple of times, but liked the previous model more. I also went to a Harbeth dealer to make sure it wasn't a room or equipment mismatch, but they sounded much like they did at the show. Let me say the new shl5 plus are not bad they sound more modern.
For the last 5 years I have been buying lots of vintage speakers and I have been very happy with the move. They have a sense of scale and touch that many modern speakers do not.
I met Tony about 20 years ago when he worked at audio lab. I heard some of the inexpensive speakers he had modified, and they sounded really great. About 5 years later he started his own speaker line and every time I heard them they sounded really good, but I never pulled the trigger, maybe it was the look it certainly was the sound.
Tony gave me a call earlier in the year to tell me had a new bookshelf speaker he was designing and would I be interested in taking it home for a listen, I said sure. So I get them home and placed them on top of my ns1000m yamahas which I love and start playing some tunes, first cd was Can future days, as soon as the music started I knew this was something special the midrange was huge,the attack and speed were startling. Miles Davis kind of blue Miles was next, his trumpet was right in my face big and bold. Next cd Luciana Souza The new bossa nova, her voice came out big and textured and with that beautiful tone of her voice. Next cd Armageddon, they only made one cd, this is a very dynamic cd, but this speaker handled it perfectly it was punchy, and surprising to me was that there was nothing missing, highs, midrange, and bass, the only thing you could say was the bass didn't have that extension and impact that I get from my ns1000m or my Jbl horns, but that's no big deal considering their size.
The Tonian lab speakers are one of 2 other speakers I am considering, one is the Horning Aristotle and the other is the Devore orangutan 0/96. All three speakers have that ability to play music that have prat. Tony's speakers remind me of a BMW e30m3 or a 2002tii these may not be the fastest cars you can get, but you connect with the vehicle and all you want to do is drive to your next destination and then drive more. I have a pair being made for me it should be ready next month. I will post an update after I get them.
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@snowpidgeon,
That's quite the speaker journey you've had. After reading it, I'm starting to get that itch again, thinking I was over it. A friend of mine who read this let me know that he's interested in my JBL 4319 monitors. I told him I was keeping them but now I find myself vacillating. Not the best position to be in.
All the best,
Nonoise |
That jbl 4319 is a nice looking speaker. How does it sound compared to the new jbl l100 I have heard that model. The Tonianlab bookshelf sounded really impressive . I am selling my kef 101 and my spendor sp1 to make room for the new addition. Why don't you keep both, if that's an option.
thanks
snowpidgeon
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The JBL 4319 is nice looking and nice sounding and from what I've been told, going to the L100 would be, at best, a sideways move. If I had the space, I'd go for the new G6 from Tony, but I can't justify having both.
Time will tell, and congrats on getting the G6 speaker.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Just felt the urge to chime in!
It's totaly not my thing to be a "forum" contributor, but as a very happy and proud owner of Tony's Oriaco G6 loudspeakers, I did the customary Audiogon sign-up to add some thoughts here.
Mostly I just need to enthusiastically report (that I too!), am having many of the same experiences mentioned previously. Yes, Tony has been very busy, bringing some sweet improvements to his (sonic integrity) speaker designs. Yes, Tony is protectively reserved about his designs, and when you hear them it is (immediately) a startling and engaging experience, he deserves to honor and respect the many years of disaplined R&D that he is now sharing with us! It's also true that Tony is a great guy, very personable, VERY knowledgeable, and one of the most down to earth guys you'll meet!
I think "revealing" is a great word, and I too have had many experiences of hearing those "discrete" life-like sounds, that had head my turning and thinking, what was that!!! Often, when I'm listening to certain music from my library (1st time with these speakers), it sometimes sounds like I'm listening to a re-mixed version of this otherwise familiar song!!??
As for other impressions, I agree, these speakers have a strong deep see-through characteristic, very transparent and "true to the recording" quality. That startling life-like tendancy urges you often respond to the music like someone is performing for you, you have to respectfully respond... dance, tap, sing, clap, cheer, or just very quietly submit and listen intently!
I'm thouroughly enjoying this very IMPORTANT addition (as Tony points out, "they need to be correct"), to my stereo audio system! I too, am finding it very difficult at times, to pull myself away from (many hours long) listening sessions! I am also very happy (given my budget), that some of the other speakers being considered here, (and I too likewise have considered), often can be 3 to 5 times more expensive. As I become more and more familiar with my G6's, I'm wondering if those much more expensive options might NOT be better?, and not by a small margin?
:)
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Life is way too short. Unless you are taking food away from your kids,keep the JBL’s and get the G6’s. They sound like great speakers. |
First, thank you, @hifiheartguy, for your impressions and contributions to my wavering mental state. Great to have you aboard here, on A'gon. Same for you, @rocray. These speakers still haunt me but I have to keep things in perspective. Tony told me he could always make me a pair, down the road, should I change my mind.
I’m also factoring in an A-HA moment I just had prior to posting this. While looking under my SACD player to see how much to move my Isoacoustic Orea footers (trying to eek out some more highs but not at the expense of the mids and that marvelous 3D imaging I’m getting), I glanced at the display and noticed a "F1" setting. I remembered trying out the F2 setting years ago and couldn’t discern any difference so I left it at the F1 setting.
Well, now with better cables, a newer set of speakers, and the new footers, going to the F2 setting eliminated some mid and low end bloat and just opened up the highs, like clouds parting. I’ve just spent the last 3 hours scurrying through my go to CDs and am more than just happy.
If the G6 were a "10" and my JBL 4319 were a "5", going to the F2 setting brings the JBLs up to 7.5-8, and I’m not kidding about this. Tony’s speakers will be on my radar and if I can sell off a couple of things, I’ll be giving Tony a call.
All the best,
Nonoise |
So I received my tonianlab speakers a couple of weeks and have finally had some free time to do some listening. Just to go over the speaker I am to compare them to the Yamaha ns1000, some may wonder if this is a high end speaker, it is. I have sold my harbeth shl 5 after 2 years of listening to both, the harbeth is a wonderful speaker, but the ns1000 is the speaker I kept going back to, the harbeths were my main speakers since 2006. I also have jbl l300, jbl 4301b, and spendor sp1, but they have limitations that keep them from being my main speakers. I have listened to most of the popular high end speakers like the Wilson watt 8 and Sasha, the Focal soppra, and the bowers and Wilkins 802d and found the ns1000 was better overall. These were heard at friends home, dealers and at trade shows, the Focal was only heard at dealers or trade shows. The ns1000 were just more coherent and the had a more natural tone. I have compared them to many other speakers, but these were the ones that cost so much more that I believed they had to obliterate the ns1000, which for the music I listen to they did not. The speakers currently have my eye on are the spendor bc3, Tannoy 12 or 15 silver or gold, and the Devore o/96. To anyone that has not heard these they just sound different then the current crop of high end speakers, they have a way of drawing you into the music.
Ok let's listen to some music. I started with some( the speakers were placed 23 inches from the floor) cd's from chesky, ma, and Tonianlab, after an hour of listening to these audiophile recordings I had to stop, if this is the only type of music you listen to you should just buy the speakers, they were amazing, percussion instruments just jumped out at you and the decay was so natural that it was as good as I have ever heard, piano sounded full and rich like the piano was in the room, acoustic guitar much the same.
So I decided I would play some classic rock. First up Santana abbraxas and Pink Floyd dark side of the moon. The imaging and soundstage was excellent, the stereo effect was huge, it wasn't as wide and sharp sounding as my ns1000, but the midrange was bigger and more natural sounding. Next cd was tears for fears the hurting everything from the vocals and and piano sound clear and defined with complete coherent integration between both drivers, the thing that was suprising was on bass notes I did not hear any coloration from the cabinet because the speakers are not that heavy.
The only thing missing was the speaker sounded a little lean on the bass and it didn't have the slam of the ns1000, but I don't know of any bookshelf or slim floorstander that has outstanding midrange and great bass if you know of any let me know. Next was Doreen smith a tribute to Julie London The vocals were beautiful so big and textured like she was right in my room. Next was the complete set from Miles Davis and John coltrane, funny thing was, I was listening to this off axis and there was a track that had miles talking and then whistling, I jumped up and went to my porch because my cat was outside and I thought someone was trying to get his attention, but it was only the sound system.
Time to wrap up this review. If you listen to jazz, classical, vocals, and popular music from the 40s to the 80's and really don't listen to progressive or classic rock, hip hop or trance music these speakers are as good as your going to get, they can play this kind of music but you would missing out on what they do best. To me they are a masterpiece like a Handcrafted Japanese chef knife or a vintage Tag Heuer watch a simple design that was designed with a purpose.These things are not just items to be discarded When they are no longer needed they are meant to be passed on to the next generation of music lovers. In the end I will be keeping these for awhile, not sure if I like them more than my ns1000, but I listened to mostly progressive rock so they serve a different purpose. I don't think any audiophile can find a better speaker that produces a better midrange under 10k. If there is a speaker out there you audiogoners have heard that sound special let me know i am always excited about learning about something new.
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@snowpidgeon,
Thank you for that thorough and enjoyable ride of a review. I thought I had my system finally dialed in, and to a large extent, I have, but after reading your thoughts on the G6, it's bringing back that slight but growing urge to listen to them again.
It's a good thing I finally sold my other monitors.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Very cool to read these reviews of a very appealing-sounding speaker. I'm assuming they are single-driver?
Also a very classy thread overall -- no sniping, no smugness. |
Actually, they are a two-way monitor. Just looking at them, they appear to be just another in a long line of monitors but once your hear them, you'll know you have something special to consider.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Problem that I had with Tonian in the past when we discussed his speaker is when he said he "tuned" the thin walled cabinet. I stand by the simple belief that thin walled speaker cabinets made of conventional materials will sing and add colorations without fail. Perhaps not fair, but I dismiss speakers with this type of design instantly. |
It would be to your detriment. I used to have his TL-D1 speakers and they have thin cabinet walls and were tone monsters, recreating an almost impossibly convincing presentation.
The speakers were designed with that in mind. Some other makes do the same thing; some succeed, some don't. Tonian Labs is one the few that does. If the speaker maker knows what he's doing, then I give them the latitude to make whatever they want as long as it floors me with the sound, and Tony doesn't disappoint.
All the best,
Nonoise |
It has been awhile since my last post on the Tonian lab speakers, because of the death of my brother and close friends I have not been listening,or been in the mood to think about audio evaluations. Let's hope 2021 will be a better year.
I have had the Tonian labs speakers for about 6 months and this will be my final observation. Because everyone has a different opinion
on how a speaker should sound and look, and what kind of materials and shape the enclosure Should be I believe there is not a right or wrong way on different philosophies of speaker design. Some might like an overly bright speaker, or a more bass heavy loudspeaker, for myself these types of design only work for audiophiles with a limited genre of music they listen to, and I believe that's why we are constantly changing out our equipment like cables, amps, preamps, and cartridges, it just seems to never end.
I thinks that the type of audiophile that will be drawn to the Tonian lab speaker will be the same person that is interested in the Devore, Harbeth, Spendor, Graham, and to a lesser degree vintage and new designs from Jbl, Klipsch, or Altec Lansing. The reason these designs are popular again is because they sound like how music should sound, I have heard most of these speakers and know why people are drawn to these speakers, they sound more like live music.
So how do the Tonian lab sound compared to smaller bookshelf speakers from other BBC designs, they don't sound like them at all, when you hear them for the first time they sound so much larger than your typical bookshelf, you would believe these are large stand mount or floorstanders. The midrange is full and the highs are smooth, there is none of midrange warmth that the harbeth, spendor, or the Grahams have, that's not a good or bad thing,only an observation. The midrange, upper bass and lower treble are extremely fast, like a electrostatic speaker. The bass is tight and rolls off very nicely, on some rock and roll music the bass was a little thin, but on most music it wasn't a problem. I did use some of the lower priced Chinese tube integrated amps and they sounded good and relaxed, to relaxed for me, I like a more dynamic sound. I ended up using my audio lab 8000a as a preamp and a pass labs power amp and that's when everything started to come together. The sounded more dynamic and much more like live music, my audiolab has tone controls so on some music I did use the bass control, I will be adding a subwoofer soon.
I think Tony's speaker will appeal to the person who likes the BBC sound but wants a more open midrange without the midrange bump or a magnepan owner moving to a smaller room but likes an open sound with a large midrange presence. They are so easy to drive I used them with my 25 watt marantz receiver and they sounded really good, I could easily live with this configuration
After having Tony's speaker for about 6 months I feel like I belong to a special club of people lucky enough to hear his speakers, they are so undervalued, I know some people will look at the materials and think they over priced because they look so simple, but they do not see the time he has spent designing this product. I can't say this is the best or my last speaker, but I can't think of any product regardless of price I could say that about. If any audiophile has the extra money to buy these unassuming loudspeakers I suggest you buy them because you will regret it if Tony is no longer making speakers I know I will be keeping mine until my time is done. I understand Tonian lab will be at the audio show in Long Beach I am looking forward to it.
Thanks
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Do you remember which track it was where the dog walked across the stage?
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Sorry, but I don't. It's been some time since then and it was made easier to pick out as Tony knew when it was coming and showed me a video of the dog getting up and walking away moments before it happened.
Without the knowledge of what made the noise, I would have thought it was some kind of percussion going on.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Any further word on these speakers from those who have them or have heard them? Haven’t heard much about them in some months.
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The last I've heard (rather, saw) of these speakers was in a video of the last audio show he was in. It showed the POV of the recorder as he walked into Tony's room, which was crowded, and you could see his speakers at the back of the room.
All the best,
Nonoise
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Tony makes very musical speakers. A few years ago I was looking at Tony to building me a nice floorstander but at the last moment we had a death in the family and my desire for some new speakers disappeared. I hope Tony is doing well and perhaps I will revisit he speaker options later this year.
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