I will not name the brand of the malfunctioned amp in question, except to say that it is a US brand and it is not a boutique shop. I bought direct from factory as there were no dealerships in my region of the world, Taiwan. As I traded in my old amps, I was given a discount and paid $5,000 for the pair.
My system consists of a Verdier Turntable, A MFA Luminescence preamp, a Wadia 16 CDP and Eminent Technology LFT 8b speakers. The amps were brand new and worked well for 6 months. Then one of the amps malfunctioned. I sent it to a local technician, and determined that the transformer was shot.
The malfunctioned amp was sent back at my expense. After inspection, I was told that the amp failed because it was operating over voltage. Our power grid delivers 110 v electricity. And in order to be certain, the other amp which was perfectly fine was requested to be sent back for inspection.
The solution for repair was to increase the VAC of the amp to 125 V, obviously for both amps, and the tubes will be inspected and biased accordingly. The cost for repair will be $ 850 for each amp. My questions is: Should I pay for the repairs? I was told the reason for the failure was due to the fluctuation of our local power grid. Therefore, the user is at fault. However, if it is power grid is the problem, then why did only one amp fail? Would it not be a reasonable assumption that there are quality control issues at fault?
Given that there are brand new amps ( six months old ), isn't paying $ 1650 for repairs unreasonable? Any insight would be appreciated.
As a tube equipment manufacturer, I don't buy the scenario. If one amp is running fine, something else is up. When the input voltage is lower, the current through the transformer is lower- which if anything, would prolong its life.
@ roxy54 @ joyctoy, I wanted to get unbiased first reactions from folks in the community by not naming names.
The amp is from Von Gaylord Audio. It’s not the most well known of brands, but owners’ opinions here have always been favorable.
@ oldhvymec, I use a Audio Magic Stealth power conditioner. But it is not a surge protector. On two occasions I experienced local power outages while playing the amp. I immediately switched off the amp. According to my friend, who is an electrical engineer, voltage here in summer peaks is usually 108 V, and maybe 109 V on cooler months. It rarely reaches 110 V and above. @ srereo5 The local technician never worked on the unit.
@ atmasphere Thanks for your input, Ralph!
I am told if the amp is simply fixed, without changing the VAC, then there’s no guarantee that it wouldn’t malfunction again! The solution is to change the VAC, and the problem will not happen again.
The reason for buying this new amp, The Nirvana Mono, was because one of the previous amps, The Triode Mono from Von Gaylord, malfunctioned. I sent both amps back to Von Gaylord for repair. I was told that amps being some twenty years old were beyond repairable and was offered an upgrade.
Before sending the first pair of amps back, A lot of research was done. And I concluded that I would stick with Von Gaylord if an upgrade was offered.
Please don’t misunderstand, the Nirvanas, when operational, were sensational driving the ET LFT 8’s. I was enjoying the amps tremendously. I have only good things to report on the musicality of the amps.
It’s the email exchanges on the repairs that have really irked me. I really don’t know what caused the malfunction, aside from the hypothesis that it’s electrical power fluctuations on my end. And to get slapped with a $ 1700 price tag for the repairs........
It sure sounds like they are shirking. Tell them you had it plugged into a Tripp Lite LC-1800 fed by a Zero Surge 2R and that they are full of stinky rotten pupu caca.
@ fuzztone The brand is Von Gaylord Audio, previously Legend Audio, with very good owners’ reviews. I count myself truly unlucky to have encountered two malfunctioned amp from the same manufacturer. :(
That is one reason I tried to stay away from botique brands. I ditched my 3 Audible Illusions preamps because the customer service was almost nonexistant and the owner of the company was semi retired. OI didn't want to have problems getting a $3700.00 preamp fixed if it went bad. I learned my lesson with my Sony SCD1, it is now a gorgeous door stop.
However, if it is power grid is the problem, then why did only one amp fail?
Without saying anything one way or the other about what truly caused this problem, this question at least is easy to answer. IF - IF! - it is anything to do with voltage fluctuations then there's really only two ways it can go. One, the surge is so powerful it blows out everything in its path, no amp can survive, and they both go. Or Two, its marginally out of spec and so it comes down to one component part somewhere in the amp hitting its limit before the same component part in the other amp. This can easily happen. In order for some marginal fluctuation (which it sounds like it is) to cause both amps to fail simultaneously would call for an almost superhuman matching of identical tolerances across all components in both amps. I know we all like to think that's the case, but its just not.
That said, the questions I would be asking are very different. First and foremost I would want to know exactly what failed? Was it rectifier diodes? A resistor somewhere? Did a failure in one part start a cascade of failures down the line? What happened? Exactly. Give me the forensic breakdown. If its a lot of stuff, then explain to me why I should be buying another one of these designed to fail so expensively from so minor an AC fluctuation?
Most of us never look inside our components, which is a shame. All it takes is a cursory glance to see lots of parts like caps marked with their values. Resistors are a little harder because you have to decode the color bars. But once you do everything is right there out in the open. If a tech tells you a cap failed because your voltage went from 110 to 115 then you open up your other amp and say which cap? This one right here that says 600V right on it??? Like that. Other parts like rectifier diodes have parts numbers printed right on them, that can be looked up on the internet to find their rated values. This can be done with virtually every single thing you can find in there.
What you will find if you do this, a huge amount of the parts in there are very conservatively rated just like the 600V cap example. Its just nuts to say voltage going up a measly 10% (which is what we're talking about) caused thousands of dollars worth of damage. Not if we're talking a competently designed amp. Which admittedly is precisely the question. Which you only find out by digging into the details of exactly what part(s) inside the amp it was that failed, and what specifically the parts are that will change this- and will they, really?
- two monoblocks... one fries other doesn’t... same voltage to both -- manufacturer reasoning is nonsense - if high ac voltage is the cause both would blow - taiwan is 110 vac / 60 hz same as usa/n america - good question is to ask what specific component(s) actually went bad in the bad unit - key in troubleshooting true root cause - op SHOULD name the company and amp, so we can avoid... their response is unacceptable
@ jjss49 I have already identified the brand , Von Gaylord Audio. The technician here indicated that the transformer was shot. This was confirmed by the manufacturer.
@ millercarbon Thanks for your comment. Aside from the damaged transformer I should ask for more specifics.
Thank you for all your comments. Let’s see how this play out. I’ll update.
All I might add is that if you decide to have a look inside to see if you can find a blown capacitor or bad resister (which may be pretty easy given that someone as technically challenged as I am has done it), you might take the advice often given here and elsewhere: if at any point you aren't sure what you're looking for and how to determine whether it is functioning, you really need to stop immediately! There are lethal charges in that thing.
I strongly suggest that you name the manufacturer in the title of your post. That way, the manufacturer would be spurred on to make the changes himself and at his own cost before a PR nightmare of his own making would cost him so much more in lost sales, diminished brand goodwill, etc. If the damage was indeed caused by a design or manufacturing flaw, he can make up for it through proper after-sales support and service.
@roxy54 , Yeh, I know it isn't but I mentioned it because it still burns me today. 5 grand for a silver door stop. Seriously, I wonder why people go with a company that makes specialty electronics. There are so many good name brands wityh years of experience and good customer service available to us.
Hi all - first post here. Thanks for the amazing content...thanks for sharing all your knowledge!
I think it's worth stepping back for a moment to consider that if the manufacturer had gone the extra mile and repaired it either free or at cost, the OP would be singing its praises on this forum right now, drawing all of our attention to a brand that might not have been on our radars.
How much would this free and persuasive advertising in an influential forum have cost the manufacturer? The price of a transformer.
It seems incredible to me how short sighted some companies are. Do they not realise that we are living in an age where the consumer, through forums like this, has the power to make and break brands?
I don't have the money to go shopping for amps in this price range, and I had never heard of this brand before today. But if tomorrow I win the lottery and decide to upgrade my system, the one thing I can be certain of is not buying anything from Von Gaylord Audio.
Reputation is an extremely hard thing to build - but exceptionally easy to destroy.
@scrumpymanjack — precisely! I never understood companies not even trying to build good will with customers and also getting positive word-of-mouth reviews of their customer support. Sounds short-sighted to me too,
Im not tech savvy at all, but the fact that the amps worked fine for 6 months suggests to me that it was a problem with the one amp and not the electric power. It sounds to me like the manufacturer is trying to push the responsibility onto the customer instead of standing behind their high-priced product and building brand credibility. Sorry to hear of this hassle you are going through.
Electrical issues are just like water it will always go to the path of least resistance. Could have been that the one amp had a weaker transformer than the other and just needs to be replaced under warranty. It could have been a surge but that would have gone through your entire home and you would have had weaker items that would have blown too.
It sure is sad when stuff blows up! My condolences. the issue could be the frequency of the power; 50 or 60 cycles. A transformer made for 110 volts should be ok from 100 - 125 volts. A transformer made for 50 cps may overheat at 60 cps; that's a 20% difference. I live
Southern California. During our frequent fires the voltage swings as high as 170 volts. I have a bathroom night light that blistered the paint on the wall because it got so hot during a power surge. But my audio gear survived. I'm guessing the transformer in the failed amp was NOT made for your country's voltage & frequency. That's a manufacturing/shipping problem and the company should fix it for free.
I know someone who bought a secondhand dac and was, after a third emailed question, told "I haven't made any money from you and I'm going to have to change you for the next one." That asshole response not only cost the manufacturer that person's money for a future upgrade, but also mine. Their dacs cost from $5-12k, so that one email subtracted at least $10,000 from their bank account. It's idiotic and shortsighted.
Wow. I find this amazing. I started working on electronics professionally since 1974. Power Transformer failures were very rare. Wal Warts don't count. Guess they don't make them like they used to.
Just going on "the transformer was shot". Here's a Long Shot repair. If, If the primary winding is found to be an Open Circuit. And, if you can remove the transformer cover casing or get to the core of the transformer. Sometimes there is a Thermal Fuse inside. It will open should the transformer overheat. Or whatever else reason.
Upon hearing my situation, an audio buddy lent me a pair of tube amps by International Projector Corporation. These are from the 1950’s, licensed by Western Electric, and designed to drive speakers in cinemas. 70 year old amp, 70 year old transformers. They sound amazing!!!
And my 6 month old transformer blew. :) my situation is quite absurd.
I put in an email to Ray at Von Gaylord two days ago. Basically I would like him simply to fix the amp at his cost. And I don’t want to change to 125v. The change was deemed an ‘upgrade ‘, hence the $850 per amp surcharge. I have not heard from him yet.
I'll chime in though pretty much everything has been said. I hope the mfg will do the right thing and fix the amp free of charge. You bought it direct from him. I think he sent a faulty product.. Best to you.
@unreivedogma By way of an update, the manufacturer will fix the broken amp for the following as quoted from his email:
"1. Replace Transformer US$500 (Parts
and labor)
2. Repair Power Supply US$195
Check on second amp N/C
Bias and Balance on both Amps US$125/each."
I will be going ahead with the repair. Mind you, his initial offer to 'upgrade' the power supplies of both amps to 125 v was $1700. And he claimed that if I did not follow through with the 'upgrade' then he cannot be sure if the other amp which was working properly would not fail in the future. In other words, he will not warranty his own product!
I am at a point where I can proclaim definitively, DO NOT BUY VON GAYLORD AUDIO PRODUCTS, EVER!
I will proceed with the amp repair with the proposed $945. However, when I do receive the amps, I will be in a situation of not knowing when the amps will fail again. The manufacturer will not be standing by his product. I will be in a further situation of not being able to resell the amps, as I have made known the poor service quality of the brand!
Perhaps you could have the manufacturer hold the amps until you can find a US buyer? Presumably he's confident that the issue is due to voltage differences that would not present themselves to a US customer. Once you sell he could ship to your buyer from the factory. Sounds like a reasonable story to present to potential buyers...
And sorry to say, but I still think this should be warranty repair. Maybe a middle ground is you pay for parts and he provides free installation. You've already got to cover shipping... So you definitely lose the most on the transaction.
Another note from the peanut gallery: I completely agree with everyone calling this spectacularly shortsighted on the part of Von Gaylord. They just lost much of the Audiogon community for a few hundred dollars of repair-profit.
I am following up with this update and, embarrassingly, an apology. The real culprit to my amp problems turned out to the a malfunctioning power conditioner. The one used throughout my ordeal was a Audio Magic Stealth, a unit bought in the 90’s, in storage for ten years, and brought back into service 3 years ago. Since two Von Gaylord amps malfunctioned, I put the blame on the Manufacturer. Furthermore, after the VG amp was sent back for repair, I had a loaner tube amp, International Projector Corp am 1026, in service which had performed flawlessly. Well.... the IPS amp also malfunctioned about two months ago.
Someone finally suggested that I look into the power conditioner. When I open the box, alkaline deposits were found adhering to wire connectors, and parts were flacking off. The power conditioner had probably not been maintaining proper voltage for a while. To be clear, I am not pointing fingers at Audio Magic. The alkaline deposits are common occurrences from electronic devices and batteries due to the high humidity of where I live. I believe now that putting expensive audio equipment in storage in high humidity environment is asking for trouble.
I have a new power conditioner, Puritan Audio PSM 156, and a new amp, Mactone MH 300b for a month. And things are fine. Previously, the Wadia CDP would from time to time turn itself on when in sleep mode. It was again a problem that I did not associate with the power conditioner. The Wadia does not act up anymore.
Von Gaylord fixed the amp for $900. They will return in two weeks. And they will work with the new Mactone to bi -amp the Eminent Technology LFT-8 bs.
I have sorry to place blame on Von Gaylord Audio when the problem really was due to my carelessness.
A bit of an explanation on acquiring the Mactone I was so dejected with failed amps, and at the time not knowing the cause of the problem. I decided to look for a locally made amp. I live in Taiwan with many small electronic shops serving as OEM for branded US and European audio shops. There are quality electronics to be held, with zero resale value on the international market. While researching local wares, I chanced upon a Mactone with a very low asking price. One other advantage of living in Taiwan is that it is a three hour flight to Tokyo. There are many Japanese audio gear sold here at very reasonable prices. It turns out that the owner bought the Mactone ten years ago direct from Japan and was using it in a second system ( he has hi end Airtight for main rig ). Not many recognize the Mactone brand, and I got it for a steal, complete with box, cage, tubes, and Japanese instruction manual.
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