Of course, no product is going to suit everyone when it comes to sound and/or system compatibility, so I make no claims that way. However, one thing that I do feel is true is the reliability and support that Atma Sphere provides in their product.
Two things to potentially consider in regard to the issue at hand:
1) Atma Sphere used to offer their amps in kit form. Obviously, once someone undertakes their own build, all bets are off. At that point, the final result reflects the builder as much or more than the actual product or company providing said product.
However, as that time was both very long ago and very recent, I would guess this pair of amps didn't come via the kit route
2) A lot of people over the years have modified their Atma Sphere amplifiers. Again, using the kit rationale, at that point, what comes out of that now more aligns with the person performing the upgrade, as opposed to what they started with, or the company who manufactured the product.
I'm not saying one of these two scenarios explains what happened, but they are two possible explanations to add into the mix. |
I know that Atmasphere isn't a large corporation, but wouldn't they keep records of things like this, or isn't there a serial number that Tubes108 could provide that would clarify age etc?
At this point, Tubes108 seems to have bowed out of the conversation, and I guess I don't blame him. |
All I am going to say is that I have followed this discussion from the beginning. I now have two more names to add to my list of people I won't buy from or sell to, and their names aren't Ralph or Charles. |
Browns, it's kind of anal running a black list, isn't it? Anyhow looking at your system, I doubt you could afford to buy any gear from those members anyway and vice versa, I doubt those members would want to buy any of your gear apropos of which I might check out the classified section.. |
Melbguy1,
How you can look at a perfect stranger's audio system and even remotely extrapolate their personal financial capabilities is beyond me. In my opinion this isn't just an inaccurate and misguided approach, it's incredibly rude and arrogantly presumptuous. To judge an audio system based on monetary outlay is not only wrong but reveals much ignorance.
Brownsfan has written some of the most thoughtful and intelligent posts on this site over the years. Through his numerous contributions on audiogon it's very clear and obvious he loves music and expresses his appreciation in a most articulate manner. Reading his posts I'd venture to say that his system's sound quality mirrors this very high level as well.This is more than I can say for your often pugnacious comments posted on this enjoyable (usually) forum. |
Melbguy1, To further contrast you and Brownsfan, I doubt that he'll go off and complain to this site's moderators. If he chooses to, he'll respond to your comments regarding him in a mature and appropriate fashion. By the way, why the assumption(based on your reply above) that your system is superior to his? Have you listened to his system?
Charles, |
Charles, thanks for the character reference. Funny, I thought running a blacklist, then promoting that fact was incredibly rude and arrogant. Different points of view my friend. Btw, I find your description of my comments as "pugnacious" ironic. Why don't you take a good look in the mirror once in a while.
To your comment accusing me of comparing my system to Brownsfan, you either completely misread my comment or are trolling here. Your literal translation and dissection of my comments displays impressive erudition, but you get a fail on context. I'll leave you to your power plays, they bore me to be honest. |
Man has this thread taken a wrong turn!! Everybody step back and take a breath........relax. |
Hi John,
Could you look t my system and based on its make up and then determine my financial stability or level of discretionary income? Would you say that I could reach similar conclusions judging your system?
One could have an expensive system and be in significant debt as a result.
One could have a less expensive system that represents a small fraction of what they're capable of spending but simply chose not to.
John, could we accurately make this determination of people we don't even know? For sake of debate if we "could" do this, what business is it of ours?
Does a more costly system imply it's always better sounding? Was it necessary for Melb1guy to even go there concerning Brownsfan?
Regardings,
Charles, |
Chareles1dad,Your subject would hit a home run for a thread!, never seen that topic before, and it makes alot of since, what does not make since is to why you would say anything about melbguy1?, who cares what he may say that you do not like, as a member since 2012, I have had to learn the very hard way not to coment on everything, I bite my tongue, I have been through alot as a member of audiogon, I always have liked you, and enjoy your post, to keep your self out of trouble with audiogon, it's likly best to not frustrate people on these threads, I am the worst one to do so all the time, guess what, I was moderated for a year!, I know you do not want that do you? |
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Hello Charles,
My response was not aimed at you and Melbguy1 specifically, it was more of a general comment of how the thread had turned since Tubes108's original post (not to blame Tubes108). It seems like the train has run way off the tracks, and there is a lot of viral energy here now. I suppose it is not that surprising, given the fact that the premise of the thread is based in a negative context.
While I do not condone Melbguy1's post on Brownsfan, I do not see how pouring gasoline on the fire will help anything. I'm just saying maybe there are a few here that are too close to the fire to see the big picture. Step back and just relax. I know it can get heated in here at times, I've found a nice break (a few days) from the Audiogon threads will help me to get my life's priorities back in order again, and regain some perspective.
Peace,
John |
@Audiolabyrinth, I have no interest in kissing up to Charles1dad. Best he keep to his side of the forum, and me to mine. And that's all i'm going to say on that subject. That said, in the interests of harmony, I will bite my tongue from now on. |
Hi John,
I just expect that on an open forum disagreements can be managed and handled without someone's feelings being hurt.Anyway I've said my piece and will leave it there. Brownsfan is more than capable of responding if he sees fit{and he may not}.
Thanks,
Charles1, |
"Man has this thread taken a wrong turn!!"
Threads that inquire about bad experiences kinda start down that path from the beginning unfortunately.
When something bad is reported, its hard to just let it slide, and hard to get the most relevant facts relating out as well in a forum like this.
Not to mention that people easily jump to generalized conclusions baed on isolated cases/instances reported, most of which cannot even be verified with certainty.
So either have very thick skin and take many grains of salt or best to just steer clear. |
Meanwhile, maybe this will steer us away from our detour to oblivion, and back to the title topic.
One of my more disappointing purchases was the Harbeth Compact 7 ES-2 speaker.
I bought a pair of these used and they came in third place to compared to two other speakers in my room. Thankfully they are loved by many so I sold them without a loss. |
All, the basis of my post was the following premise:
When two people have world views that are completely different almost any interaction is likely to prove a frustration. As I read through the forum, I find people who seemingly think pretty much as I do, and some that I find are on a completely different foundation. I think that is quite evident in this discussion. Many people in this forum have had transactions both as buyers and sellers that were more trouble than they were worth. This is a hobby. I don't need buyers whose expectations are unrealistic or whose first attempt at problem resolution involves character assassination. I don't need sellers who misrepresent their goods or fail to deliver what they have promised. I just simply avoid people I think are going to be a problem. If that is rude and arrogant, so be it. I am guilty. My guess is I am not alone.
Occasionally, when a debate position can't be won on its own merits, a debater attempts to invalidate the credibility of his opponent by citing real or imagined irrelevancies. Most of the folks around here are savvy enough to see through such tactics.
My point is neither validated or invalidated by the size of my estate or whether I paid 200K or $1.98 for my rig. I would suggest my point be discussed on its own merits.
Your honor, I rest my case. |
Jperry, you were lucky indeed. |
The longer I have been doing this, the more I realize that the gear is just a means to an end. Once you have a fairly 'mature' system that is dialed in, and have dealt with the basics, like 'mains' power, room acoustics and set-up, so much is dependent on the quality of the source material. In almost every instance where I have had an issue with a piece of gear, the manufacturer or distributor has stepped up, and helped me resolve it. I have had very few 'bad' experiences, gearwise, since I started doing this hi-fi thing of ours seriously, back in the early 70's. A few dealers were bad, but my negative experience was usually not an isolated one- and typically, a good manufacturer won't tolerate a dealer that fails to provide service or follow-up.
I also find that there is an enormous amount of knowledge and experience on fora like this, and many people are willing to help a fellow audiophile with a technical problem or set-up question, without reservation (or some agenda to encourage you to 'buy' something). There's a certain amount of 'filtering' that you have to do, as in any web forum, but over the long haul, I think most of the long-term contributors here are well-intentioned and well-informed. |
Music Hall 25.2 tube headphone amp - tubes are soldered into the board and one went bad after a few months. Music Hall was very prompt about getting me an RMA authorized for repair but it still cost me out of pocket to ship it. Tech fixed everything and upgraded some resistors or something. Sound is OK. Wish i'd just spent more on the outset on a better product.
Cambridge Audio Stream Magic 6 - I like the sound and it has tons of inputs. I have a DACMagic Plus in the office and this is comparable in sound. However, interface is woefully antiquated and the Android app is utterly broken. Unless I'm connected via bluetooth or USB, I have to wait for my gf to come home so I can control it with her iphone.
Cambridge Audio Azur 551r A/V receiver - blew up (literally, some caps inside blew up) after a year. Was able to get a warranty repair in town without having to ship it and it actually sounds better than before. Inexplicably they omitted the control bus feature that's present on the other Azur models to allow it to talk to the Stream Magic. Again, wish i'd spent more at the outset.
And yeah, I think tubes108 is unfairly being held to a different standard than the other posters here. |
And yeah, I think tubes108 is unfairly being held to a different standard than the other posters here. If the standard is that people are talking about stuff that actually happened then its perfectly fair. |
tubes are soldered into the board OMG! That is crazy! |
Hi Tortilladc,
Did you read the follow up replies to Tubes108 last post? There was a change in sentiment toward him and he was given the benefit of doubt. |
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I see the bowl is being mixed up again, I suppose it's entertaining as long as all of us get along, no harm done. |
@ charles Yes sorry I meant to say *initially* he wasn't getting a fair shake. dashed off that last sentence too quickly! |
Still thinking about it!! |
Tannoy DC8T, Usher Dancer II, Magico M5, any Kharma speakers, any LUA amps, Avantgarde speakers go TOOOOOOOOT |
Magico Q5 (dead, lifeless, thin, analytic and far away from a reproduction of a real sounding tone) |
I bought a pair of used ohm F's that sounded ok until you started to apply more power then the cone seemed to break into oscillation and really distort; this was when I first entered into audio in 1984ish and did not know this speaker was a rough load to handle and these problems seemed to be normal indication that a rebuild was in order. I wished I had knew more back then and had them rebuilt as I traded them in at Audio King.
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"Magico Q5 (dead, lifeless, thin, analytic and far away from a reproduction of a real sounding tone)"
HA! Suck it ebm..... |
08-26-14: Syntax
Magico Q5 (dead, lifeless, thin, analytic and far away from a reproduction of a real sounding tone) Going by your extensive equipment list, I'm guessing you are a Dealer or Distributor who does not represent Magico. In any case, you either have a commercial bias or some bone to pick with Magico, as if you were evaluating their products objectively you would know that Magico speakers by their nature are transparent, highly resolving & neutral in tonal balance and reflect the character of upstream gear. Syntax error? |
I find these types of BEST or most disappointed threads are useless. Eventually all components ever produced will be posted. |
Going by your extensive equipment list, I'm guessing you are a Dealer or Distributor who does not represent Magico.... I am a private consumer, no commercial interests. I did a long listening with those speakers and the result is written. I think it is important, that someone can write his personal opinion about something, we all know how the audiophile community works: 5 Audiophiles--> 6 opinions :-) and it is wrong to create personal conflicts about a commercial product which will be replaced sooner or later anyway. The real deal today was and is marketing, the worst turntable Design for me is Linn LP12 and they sold it very successfully. so, I am pretty lonely with my opinion about that unit... |
I have yet to hear a Magico speaker (and I've had a few auditions of different models) that draws me in to the music. Always sounds clinical to me. That doesn't mean it's not great gear and that it would suit others' tastes as it surely does. |
Tubes108, Hey man, that was a great post, I fully understand you position, I also believe you, I do not believe any company can make every single product to be lemon free!, that would be impossible!, car manufactories cannot, audio is defiantly not an exception by no means!, cheers. |
@Gpgr4blu, spoken like a true Wilson fanboi! Lol |
Magico must be very sensitive to what is upstream. I have heard various models on a couple occasions and sound was top notch, very natural, nothing objective at all one could object to, although no product will please everyone.
In both cases, there was probably digits worth of gear in front of them, so I would expect anything at that price to sound absolute top notch, which they did.
Its more a value thing for me with Magico. I have never done a shootout, but I do not think top notch sound need cost that much. Nice products though!! SOme better values used I see these days. I think it is a line I could live with if I had to. |
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Melbguy1
You made an astute observation about Syntax...on one hand, he is a nice guy, friendly, and giving of his opinions; on the other hand, he works as a business, marketing front, for a Bavarian of dubious history.
Melbguy1, you are right; Syntax, he is a marketing guy. However, what is wrong with marketing guys, they are all over this forum :).
Cheers! |
Isn't there a difference between equipment that fails to perform, blows up, requires constant repair, etc. and gear that in someone's estimation, simply sounds 'bad' (or 'less good' than all the hype surrounding it?) I have a fair amount of respect for Syntax's opinion on many things audio (though he is outspoken) , but there seem to be many satisfied owners of Magico (Wilson or fill in the blank). So much of the outcome of these types of "sounds bad" assessments seems to result from listening bias, set up and associated gear. |
Hi Whart,
That's has and will always be the case. This is why so many choices are available in the "small" community of High End audio. I don't expect consensus on any brand or particular model. I know exactly what Syntax means with his comment but again, it just happens to be our personal impression. Mapman thinks the Magico is fine and I can totally understand and respect his opinion. Simply different individual taste.
Charles, |
I will qualify that my longest Magico audition was for Minis that went for about an hour or so. Again this was behind >$100,000 worth of tube gear and SOTA DCS source. So how bad could this sound? It sounded very good. FWIW, other similar "quality" setups I heard at the same dealer were well off the mark and I know for a fact not everything in that case was in good working order. That's not acceptable for a dealer that pitches the best stuff to those who can afford it. It also just so happens that well known NYC dealer went under a few years back. |
Such threads are always a bit "cruel" because there will be always someone who loves exactly this product which is a disappointment for the next. But it is always about a product, nothing more. When someone takes "this" critic/disappointment as a personal slap in the face, well, I feel sorry of course. On the other side, I have no problem with Wilson speakers....but when someone wants to know what kind of speakers in that Magico price range are "better" for me --> Verity Audio Speakers. But as usual: Each his own :-) |
Well, those Wilson guys...they are known to have their own issues :).
Cheers! |
Syntax, don't take my comments personally. I've heard the Q5's, yes they eat watts like a couple of Apogee Scintilla's on heat, but fed with a lot of warm, rich, clean power and they can really sing. They are very transparent to source, so rubbish in, rubbish out applies. I'm not saying they are perfect. I actually prefer my S5's in many respects, but I thought your comments were a little uncharitable. If they were directed at the Q5's sensitivity, i'd would not and agree with you though.. |
Magico is very TRUE to source so important to drive them properly.
When I was in market for speakers, I demoed Q3 and Q5. The dealer demonstrated their chameleon characteristics in driving them in 2 configurations. One all Spectral and other tube pre with SS amp. All Spectral was horrific and other EXCELLENT. At the end I decided on another brand.
What's interesting is dealer said at shows, they usually drive them faster than the Spectral configuration. Probably reason Magico earned poor musicality reputation especially with SET fans since most only experienced them at shows.
Syntax, can you briefly describe the system you demoed Q5? Just curious. |
Knghifi,
What you wrote makes sense. I've listened to the Magico Q3 and Q5 driven by Soulution, Spectral and Constellation power amplifiers and didn't like what I heard (Constellation with the S5 was better, less clinical). I've heard the S5 and S3 models numerous times and the best match IMO was the Absolare Passion PSET 845 driving the Magico S5 (it was pretty darn good!). I've heard VAC amplifiers with the S5 and although decent sounding, I preferred the Absolare amp with this speaker.
Charles, |
Tidal speakers not very good i heard the $80k ones was not impressed . |
Tidal speaker not very good i heard the $80k ones was not impressed .Everybody likes something different. |
