You know when you are dealing with a BS company....

(...OMG, it's another Cable Conundrum Complex....and nobody notices 'cept the Few.....)

I swear at anyones' particular deity (or not) that I've Got to start 2 - 12 step Cable Conditioning Programs....

One ramps up, other down....

"Yes, that Is a Better Choice!"

                  v.

"Wt...were you thinking?!"

Win, win, ;)

....oh....

@hilde45 ....Paul had the last word 'bout it all here imh....

 

....just sayin'....*G*

Have a good wkend..

Seems like a lot of criticism for cable’s marketing hype which is designed to differentiate themselves from the crowded field and to obviously stimulate sales.

How should a cable manufacturer market their product?  If they spent a considerable amount of time and effort to develop a good sounding product, I think it’s unfair to expect them publish their findings so that the competition can easily copy.  

Again, its NOT the product. 

Judging by the response to my 'this grinds my gears', it is not even the absoute NONSENSE companies put in their ads for their TECHNICAL product (this is not chocolote we are talking about; but I heard that Lindts is 15% more chocolatey than Hershey as measurd on the 'this is good' scale), but that we the people are TAKING this BS without reporting such ads/companies to the centeral INTELLIGENCE agency. 

leorousseau "I can now say that I have a better sounding rig than the high end audio shop that my journey started at about 35 years ago!":

Is your system now 12% or 16% better? The Morrow ad guys will be able to tell you if you are curious enough. 

’centeral’ INTELLIGENCE agency.

How about the central SPELLING agency? 🤗

Question: How do you know what they’re stating is BS?

Simply because you choose to not believe it?

Do you have any experience at all with these cables?

Exactly! I have stated in several posts the OP is so out of line.

He has no evidence to contradict the statements made in the marketing materials.

Pure conjecture on his part and biased opinion’s by those who chose to pile on.

He is simply making slanderous and salacious comments at this time and the mods have left it unchecked. This persons attacks on a company that supports this forum through advertising is a perfect example of, “cutting one nose off in spite of themselves”

In Texas we call people like this jack asses.

 

When I went wit Morrow, I really did delve into the marketing aspects. I read about their construction and I read as many reviews as I could find both good and bad. There were not many bad and many of them had noting to do with the performance. What I also like about Morrow is that you can trade in your old Morrow cables for new ones or in my case, I changed some gear and needed longer cables and they gave me a fair value for trade on the new cables. I had them build some jumpers and they made them as short as they possibly could at my request. From my perspective, they are some very good folks to deal with. 

One man crusade against Morrow.

Borders on being obsessive and the OP needs help. 

Time for this shite thread to go away. 

The Grand Master Evolution SP Speaker Cable (Pair)

Only $49,500.00

Folks who buy it...believe they are now equal to Bill Nye The Science Guy.

Could have bought a half-decent Sedan.... or two average quality vehicles.

I agree that his marketing is suspect and said so years ago on this forum.

Back when I posted, Mike of Morrow Audio was putting up focused ads on the sales side of  Agon for $2,000 IC’s and SC’s and it was fairly obvious he thought that by having uber-expensive offerings he would appear to be a luxury high-end brand when he is anything but.

Some poor soul posted up in this thread that his friend, some kind of rocket scientist, confirmed that Mike’s "SSI Technology" is legit. Ooooooof. What crap. As I recall the owner lost his source of silver clad copper stranded wire a couple years back and went to something completely different and "SST" then went to "SSI". I may be incorrect but the main point is that sure his cables work (I "bit" and have several sets) but they are not that great.

If you stick with his lower line stuff and don’t have a huge expectations you won’t be burnt. Speaking of "burnt", this Mike guy claims his cables need more burn in than his 60 day satisfaction guarantee allows the average person. That is a pretty good clue in and of itself.

 

Maybe just a salty old codger that is upset about truth in advertising laws.

This old goat may have bought some of that junk Doug Flutie and Frank Thomas are peddling on ESPN that will make you hard and it did not work, wink, wink.  Nugenix that’s the crap. Guess she did not like it too? 
 

Marketing is nothing new as it's been around for many years and the Morrow Audio cables do make a substantial difference as you move up the line, so I don't understand what all the fuss is about?! It's not a bogus product that is ripping people off. How can you not expect a company to make a living? The beginning of this thread was actually childish in my opinion. Have a wonderful weekend people and enjoy the music (through Morrow Audio cables) 😜👊✌️

+1 leorousseau

Fellow posters: AGAIN, THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE PRODUCT !!!! 

It is about BS published by a 'technical' company. 

Not even the ED guys on TV claim it 'makes it 15-20% harder'. 

To be totally honest with you I never had even considered Marrow cable let alone ever read their online content.

Your post has probably sent more people to this site, that reviewed the marketing content and maybe even made a purchase. 

You do know the old adage, no? 

"Bad publicity is better than none at all." 

Their marketing is working. 

leorousseau 

Monster Cable: I just tested mine, and it improved the realism of my sound by 28.3%! Tomorrow, I will test musical presention and report back.

(""You can expect a 15% to 20% improvement in sound for each level as you move up the line. The improvements are in soundstage, resolution, realism, musical presentation, impact")

   I think over the years Morrow’s marketing is a little unusual. I have Level 4 IC’s, speaker , power and a digital cable. All of my cables were purchased during sales events and we’re 50% off. One of my transactions was with Mike on the phone and he realized I was scraping money together to by what I wanted. Without me asking he offered me a lower price and gifted me 10 days ( 240 hours ) of burnin for free. I have a cost driven system that is from various US companies that is pretty much boutique stuff, Zu, Had, Schiit, Rogue, Morrow, Akitika. In my 3-4 conversations with Morrow and my transactions, I find them to be honest , timely , and truly interested in my personal music experience. I think the peanut gallery has jumped in and taken this in many directions. Based on personal experience I won’t co-sign most of the BS , but in my opinion Morrows marketing is a little unconventional. But they do offer a trial period, and I’d be curious out of the approximate 60 contributions , how many have actually tried them. But again that’s  not your question. Happy Hunting , Mike B. 

I am sure they are Fine products but...

I own Zero Morrow wires/cables/connectors and am 100% happy...

 

@bigtwin

I’ve had people ask me the same thing...how much do your speaker cables cost?

I tell them...$40.

Just mil-spec silver wire with good insulation. 2 sets of 2 for my speakers. 3 feet each at 12 AWG. Because it’s military specified, the range of frequencies and highest temperature the cable can reach before melting is way higher than standard/bulk copper cable rolls.

This is the same stuff used in jet aircrafts for wiring. I’m sure this is more than enough for audio applications.

Tell this to a diehard audiophile, and they still believe the more expensive/the better. "it’s about the quality." the say. "You are paying for better quality and better sound quality."

I’ve run in to so many of these audiophiles in person (at audio shops etc.) lol

Not to mention, very heavy cables place strain on speaker terminals, inputs etc.

To the layman audiophile, thicker cables always means better. Especially the garden-hose variety. It's hilarious to see believers of such cables in person...

I don't see too many people on this site say to use garden hose speaker cables. It depends on the speaker you are using, if you have apogee scintilla I would definitely use a very short garden hose cable.

"I’ve had people ask me the same thing...how much do your speaker cables cost?

I tell them...$40.

Just mil-spec silver wire with good insulation....

This is the same stuff used in jet aircrafts for wiring. I’m sure this is more than enough for audio applications."

So have you actually ever TRIED the higher end cables you seem to be raging against?

Or higher end cables from ANY company? Any at all?

Amir, is that you?

Aside from the fact that this post was NOT meant to open a wire discussion (or even a discussion about the quality of the brand that puts mega BS in their ads), rather complaining about mega BS plastered in ads by supposedly serious companies selling technical products:

 

 

mastering92 as long as your 'mil spec' cables/wires give you at least 12-16% improvement in spacial divergence, you can sell them for 40% more. I still need to find a suitable cable for my small office, a cable that decreases the roominess by 18% so the sound fits into my space. I already ordered the soundstage tape measure from Morrow to also measure the width of the soundstage (may need to address that too and cant use Morrow cables since theirs' INCREASE the soundstage by 15-20% each and won't fit in my office). 

 

@kraftwerkturbo

How do you figure out "spacial divergence?"

How do you figure out your *quoted* percentage of a 12%-16% improvement?

And why should I sell them? They work just fine.

"I still need to find a suitable cable for my small office, a cable that decreases the roominess by 18% so the sound fits into my space."

Okay, so you want better imaging characteristics from your speakers. That means a better sense of space or locale; to recreate the environment where the recording took place.

may need to address that too and cant use Morrow cables since theirs' INCREASE the soundstage by 15-20% each

--> where are you getting these percentages/numbers??! How do you know that is correct? 

The words you are using are not even technical in theory or practice. I don’t expect any compelling answers from you...

@coralkong

Nope, I’m not Amir.

I’m not raging against anything. Simply sharing my experience.

For the record, I’ve "tried" canare,belden, amphenol, audioquest, custom-made cables (shop owners), and yes, I did listen to high-end speaker cables at audio shops (won’t name them though, out of respect). I haven’t spent my own money on audioquest or other high-end cables.

Consider if you will...

1) The wiring inside an amplifier. Do these manufacturers of audio gear call upon high-end cable companies to provide wire?

A: No, they normally use high-purity copper wire that is tin-plated, which also protects against corrosion. Sometimes they use silver solder as well.

2) The wiring inside a speaker/crossovers. Do these manufacturers of audio gear call upon high-end cable companies to provide wire?

A: No, they use their own internally sourced wires for that. Tested to meet a standard so electrical hazards do not occur when being used.

Are you suggesting that military airforces world-wide should stop using mil-spec silver cables for wiring up their jets? If so,what is wrong with the cables I’m using?

And instead use your favourite brand of speaker cables for the job?

@invalid

True that lower AWG is useful for speakers that can dip to 2 Ω or less and have a nominal impedance of 4 Ω.

 

 

It was as much a BS post as the marketing you are whining about.

You have given them more marketing awareness than any ad copy they could write.

Nice work!

@jerryg123 

well Canare, Belden, and Amphenol are all audio pro audio cable brands...so already widely used. 

as for the others, sure. I bet more folks will buy them.

@mastering92  the apogee scintilla has a 1ohm nominal impedance mostly resistive. 

Yep.  the truth is: we participate in a hobby full of subjective elements.  Even some of the measurable elements may not improve subjective performance.  This is especially true with DAC's where great engineers can optimize a DSP chip to produce great measurements, but potentially subjectively poor sound. 

@mastering92 keeping it in context I was referring to the subject of this post. As a refresher @kraftwerkturbo was pissing and moaning about the marketing content and tactics used by Morrow cables. Not the other value line cables sold on Amazon and Aliexpress. 
 

Stay on track. 

 

Actually some do. And some offer options for high grade capacitors and solid Silver internal wiring.

So your point moot.

Amir has a son I see.

1) The wiring inside an amplifier. Do these manufacturers of audio gear call upon high-end cable companies to provide wire?

@jerryg123

A: No, they normally use high-purity copper wire that is tin-plated, which also protects against corrosion. Sometimes they use silver solder as well.

Notice the use of the word "normally." I wasn’t saying they never use silver wire or higher quality capactiors.

Everything you’ve said thus far is moot. 

Who cares what @kraftwerkturbo thinks?!

It won’t change your perception on anything, anyway.

lol why do you keep talking about Amir?

 

mastering93: "

How do you figure out "spacial divergence?"

How do you figure out your *quoted* percentage of a 12%-16% improvement?"

Don't ask me. Ask the companies that write such and similar nonsense in their ads. 

THAT IS THE (ONLY) POINT OF THE ORIGINAL POST (supposedly serious companies selling supposedly serious technical products using utter nonsense claims). 

 

Then you should have picked a company that goes way beyond the normal hype like Synergistic Research.

You're making an example out of a company ad that is really mild in comparison to many others. Sure is a lot of hub bub over something so inconsequential to anyone's life.

I like my Morrow XLRs.  I hate the spamming I get from Morrow's (likely a millennial run) ad department.  That being said have you ever had to sell a product to the general public lately?  I swear people are getting stuupiderr and stupidere.  

@kraftwerkturbo 

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/audiophile.htm

Not all, but some fit Ken's definition of "audiophile." I'm not naming anyone, but I've met a lot of audiophiles who truly do believe the most darnedestly stupid things about audio equipment.

@thecarpathian 

It doesn't matter. The concept is the same: higher prices = better fidelity = audio nirvana.

 

@jerryg123 

+1

"It was as much a BS post as the marketing you are whining about.

You have given them more marketing awareness than any ad copy they could write.

Nice work!"

 

"It doesn’t matter. The concept is the same: higher prices = better fidelity = audio nirvana."

I agree. My point is there are far more ludicrous claims that would have been a much better example.

I am sure there a LOTS of similar examples out there for marketing that promises "15% increase in happiness" for your dollars. 

And that is dumb enough. 

But making quantitive statements about non measurable for a technical product is pretty bad. 

The WORST: the level of dumbness of American consumers (even for technical products) has reached a historic high (I present as proof the number of posters here that have not even recognized the nuttiness of the given example ad). THAT IS SCARY.

What company selling anything doesn't make bombastic claims.

Yawn, level of ignorance in this thread or for the OP dumbness.

russ69

"You can expect a 15% to 20% improvement in sound for each level as you move up the line."

I think you are misunderstanding what they are saying. I think they are saying that there is a 15-20% difference between each level of cable. Not a 15-20% improvement in your system sound but a 15-20% change in relation to the small change a cable makes. So 15-20% to the 1% change (SWAG) a cable makes.

So if they have 5-6 different cables the dearest is going to be 100% better than the cheapest.

That's some outrageous claim! A really extraordinary claim. Perhaps 1-2% might be more in the ballpark. 

@kraftwerkturbo 

 

Who.Cares.

I am 15% sadder r (measured with metric digital happy meter) after reading most of the comments, since 80% don't even recognize when they confronted with BS. 

It is also confirmed that US audio equipment consumers are 12.8% dumber (measured on the thick as a brick scale in SI units) as initially expected. 

This whole good, better, best thing reminds me of the good better best hype found with some of the junk aftermarket auto parts sold at most auto parts stores.

If a manufacture specializes in a certain product, in general, the product is either good or it isn't. On a professional level, critical products are bought on the merit and value of their performance not on hype and blue sky.......Jim

op

i think maybe it is time to let it go

we got your point... some folks are more gullible or skeptical than others... marketers do what they do...  life goes on -- there is much noise in our lives, from many sources, we grin and bear it

yup.

 

...I’m still pondering ’garden hose speaker cables’....

Sounds like a Great Idea to this tyke....*eyebrows dance*

"Premium carbon fibre low mil tubing impregnated with virgin rubber lubricated by maidens of the Amazon in a means we shan’t share slyly....

Terminated with 1000% pure Unobtainium, the medium for the Message is Moonwater sourced by our fleet of drone saucers from Dark Side crevices jelled with micron level platinum dust.

We posit the sound will make you break into tears....

...and The Reign won’t seem too much to have for your own...

All we need to know is how many cm and how many."

*G* Not available as yet, but soon enough...no doubt. ;)

...coming to a netsite near everyone...

Yay.

Unkle-Reign-W.O.W.Mix

Loud.