XLR question for bass

XLR connectors don't have any intrinsic advantage over other connectors.  However, if the amplification devices are truly balanced, they will have an additional 6db of gain (doubling the voltage results in 4x gain).  Bass performance is likely most affected by (1) speakers, (2) room acoustics, and (3) amplifier-speaker impedance interaction.

Luxman has fantastic tone controls try them. I have the 550ax2 baby of yours... Luckily my tannoys sound balanced (and also can change the crossover points on the front) but for the odd balanced album I just dial in the treble or bass I feel I am missing..... But generally leave straight 

To answer your question: No, XLR cables won’t do much, if anything, to improve bass response in that situation. You have a bright room with many hard surfaces. One of your speakers has no wall behind it for bass reinforcement. A sub woofer would help, but again, its a difficult room. Personally, I wouldn’t even try for high quality sound in that room. I’d employ a desktop system, listen in the nearfield and move those components into another room and situation that would support a better listening environment. Best of luck!

P.S.  Nice rack!

Thanks again for all the great feedback and suggestions.  I reached out to HD Axoustics as I think I'd be better served having a professional guide me.  In the long run, I may spend less money with better results.  If I try scattershot implementation on my own, I'm likely to just get frustrated.  

So glad to be a part of this great community.

Bill

I would suggest:

1. Ask the pro about what treatments actually help bass frequencies
   1. Bass traps work, but a rug will do SFA for bass modes.
2. Get a mic and REW to help with quantifying things
   1. Like what frequencies are you referring to as bass freqs?
   2. You could place a sub at the listening position and measuring with the mic at a variety of likely speaker placements. Reciprocity will make it the same as moving a heavy speaker.

• Get the speaker(s) in the right place first, then decide on a DSP or treatments.
• Treatments normally help more above 200 Hz, and DSP below 200Hz.
• Cables do almost nothing for bass.

If it does, it has little to nothing to do with being XLR. Maybe some cables will be slightly better. But for the most part - no.

Furthermore, most (too many) balance XLR interfaces on consumer gear are really just balanced-to-unbalanced adapters and may be inferior.

BAss is room and speaker placement.  And maybe amp/speaker interface.

OP

Thanks for the photo… that was worth a lot of words. Nice system and speakers. That looks like a really challenging space. I am not sure how I would approach it.

I have met a few people with skills good enough to go into the room and they would say, “move this here and this here, let’s make a short absorbent plank here to throw the sound here… but I have met few. I would send a photo of the space when talking to possible help. You might ask a couple of the closest very high end audio store managers if they know anyone… it is quite possible they might have the skill. A professional audio consultant might be skilled at building spaces… not tweaking within such a confined space. Interview carefully.

I’d really like to help… but I’d have to be there and listen… and maybe something would come to me, maybe I would draw a blank. Good luck. If you get it set up to your satisfaction I’d really be interested in how.

Thanks everyone.  But first and foremost, this is my office.  The desk cannot be moved (it took 2 people to move it and put it together, it is an L-shaped bow front desk, 7ft long and 7ft deep.  Some things can be done.  I will consider a tapestry for that wall.  I will consult with someone to do acoustical treatments on the hard surfaces.  I will consider drapery as well, although the windows are treated with soft fabric shades.  Art and diplomas aren't going anywhere.  Some things in life just aren't negotiable and the music will only be as good as I can get it without compromising on the things that bring me joy by viewing them daily.  I do look forward to going through this process and sharing the progress with the members of Audiogon b/c so many GREAT ideas have popped up due to these questions.  I truly appreciate everyone's generosity and willingness to help.  

Thanks so much.

Bill

You need to deal with the room 1st.  Bad room acoustics, nothing is going to fix that except room treatments, especially not cables. As for experts, contact GIK or ASC or others online to get an idea what could be going on in your room

I would bet it's room/speaker positioning. I once moved a tall record rack to the other side of the room...right next to the left speaker at what would be the 1st reflection point. I thought bass was fine before, but it was like all frequencies came into focus...tighter, including bass. I had good bass before this change but now it seemed as if the bass frequencies were punching at exactly the same time...so impact and clarity was improved.

Wasn't even my idea either...wife needed space on the right side of the room. It is not hyperbole to say it was a night and day difference. 

A listening space should be treated like a recording studio.  Microphones are nothing more than a set of good ears.  They require the same acoustic conditions to process a pleasing sound.   While there are admittedly some studios and mixing rooms that are over the top in their treatment (Blackbird Studio C - look it up - it has the famous George Massenberg treatment.  Awesome.).  There are many other world class studios that are nothing more than a set of heavy drapes on the wall and a few area rugs.  

Room treatment is really not that complicated.   It does take a little experimentation but that’s part of the fun.    All you’re trying to do is knock down or diffuse a sound wave on every hard, reflective surface.  The diffusion device doesn’t need to cover every inch of hard surface, not even close.   But every reflective surface should have something that absorbs and forces sound waves to either change their direction or their speed.  Different frequencies travel at different rates. When you knock down a certain band, they no longer travel as a standing wave and, in most cases, will cancel each other out. In layman’s terms, knocking down just one frequency band usually tames the rest.  Don’t try to over analyze it. 
 

When I treat a room, I spend a lot of time clapping my hands together or yelling a single sound and listening.   If you hear the sound reverberate, your room needs more.  

For the OP’s room, I’d start with an area rug - as big and as thick as the space can handle.   I’d also replace all the framed wall hangings with 2” thick decorative acoustic art prints.  The alcove in the background is problematic.  That’s an echo chamber.   Some acoustic treatments on those walls will go a long way in producing a focused bass.   If you want to display a diploma or certificate, you can send a high rez photo to Acoustimac and they’ll make your certificate in to an art print. https://www.acoustimac.com/acousticart

The corner shelving unit is also an issue.   Try to find some of those small decorative pillows with cute phrases and place them on a few of the shelves.  If you want to get serious, line the back of the shelves with Guilford of Maine Sona fabric.  The stuff works miracles and it looks pretty good too!  It’s not very expensive. 

The large blank wall above the computer monitor is definitely screaming to be treated..  A hanging tapestry, Navajo rug, another acoustic art print, etc., will work wonders.    If you hang a tapestry or rug, don’t mount it flush to the wall   Hang it from a curtain rod or similar.   

Scatter a few large pillows around on the furniture.  

Finally, I’d call a window treatment company and inquire about some nice fabric curtains or, at least, some heavy fabric blinds for that window.

After that, there are corner bass traps, ceiling treatments, etc., but I think you’ll already be enjoying a night and day difference and won’t care about doing more.  

@wtb 

Is the front of your working desk a solid flat surface?  Obviously the chair to the left of your desk has a solid back.  It seems to me that you're sitting behind a wall, OK a half wall.  I'm thinking that the bass is bouncing off those flat surfaces as well as being absorbed.  And to add to the perceived lack of bass the highs are bouncing off the top of your desk right into your ears.

Although I can see where this would be a PITA I would move the desk and the chair out of the room as an experiment to see how much they are affecting your system.

I had a coffee table in front of my listening position and I was quite surprised that removing it mellowed out the highs considerably.  It never made it back into the listening room.

Regards,
barts

If you listen mostly at your desk I strongly encourage you to switch to desktop speakers on tilted IsoAcoustics stands.  Look at Fritz for excellent high value speakers that would fit.

You have a great looking system and should not be having these problems. My troubleshooting recommendations would be:

Plug your fantastic integrated directly into the wall receptacle.

Find another source (turntable or CD or tuner) to input into your Luxman to ensure that it is not your server/DAC.

If the above fills out your bass, study to see if there is some setting on your server or DAC that may be on that is restricting bass.

I'm a professional so I appreciate what abprofessional in an unfamiliar field can bring to the table.  

Bill

Thanks again for all the great feedback and suggestions.  I reached out to HD Axoustics as I think I'd be better served having a professional guide me.  In the long run, I may spend less money with better results.  If I try scattershot implementation on my own, I'm likely to just get frustrated.  

So glad to be a part of this great community.

Bill

There have been some comments here which really don't follow the science. I am an engineer, I follow the science. I design and manufacture cables for audio equipment.

Audio Quest cables I have tested usually are well balanced in terms of performance top to bottom and I have listened to many of their model, but not that particular one. I would not blame the cable.

The connectors on a cable will change the performance characteristics of a cable system. This has to do with the topology of the connector parts, the materials of the connector, and the joining method between conductors and connector pins. I would not be in a hurry to change the cable, Audio Quest makes good products in my opinion.

The question of speaker placement should be solved first. There are many speaker placement algorithms on the WWW. Check out what some of the websites say is best speaker position for your room is. The stereo is a system and it includes the room. The speakers are excitation elements in the sound system, prime movers. They will excite the air in the room in relationship to how they connect with the total vibrational system. Bass performance is greatly affected by this relationship.

Once you have speaker placement decided upon, then you can tune the room with sound treatments to suite. A copy of REW, a cheap measurement mic, and a cheap USB digital mixer will make understanding where to place room treatment to suite to you the best much easier. I have Stillpoint Apertures and Acoustimatic portable panels I can move around a room to test system performance with. The help of a dealer or an engineer in this area can be very valuable. You can find me at Audio Union if you have questions.

Difficult room you've got there  Start with speaker placement. Add an area rug & decorative tapestry. Let your s/o choose it if you have one. Obviously the visual aesthetic isn't the main object here.

Look at your room. You have unequal back wall reinforcement. Your right channel speaker has a much farther distance to the back wall than left channel. If you are handy or could hire someone to build in a small wall behind right speaker so they would have equal reinforcement.

Based upon your photo I agree that speaker placement is your main culprit. I also agree that you have great tone controls to use on your Luxman therefor use them. Also a smaller self-powered subwoofer could help.

@wtb 

i would recommend Jeff at hdacoustics.net. He is great to work with and I’m sure he could help you out. Good luck! 
 

Ron 

Thanks guys.  Is there anything I should be looking for when it comes to an acoustician as far as qualifications go?

Bill

It will probably not be easy, but looking at the photo of the room, I guess that the intervention of an acoustician will be necessary. Good luck

You need room treatments. You have a bunch of hard surfaces and 90 degree angles. More gadgets and speaker placement aren’t going to cure bass frequencies bouncing around the room.   An area rug, a couple heavy blankets, a decorative gobo panel or two, some decorative acoustic wall treatments (I use Acoustimac and ATSAcoutics in my home and studio) even just one or two bass traps will make a world of difference. That room is screaming for something to knock down those sound waves.   The best system in the world would sound bad in that space.  Don’t invest another dime in gadgets or waste your time moving speakers until you put some diffusion in that room.

Like ghdprentice said:

"Your best bet is speaker placement. Moving the speakers back and forth from the wall, and your listening position"

You may be sitting in a null point where the bass is cancelling out.  Have you tried moving your listening position?  In my room I have two listening spots.  The first is in the sweet spot - almost equilateral triangle.  Bass is good - tight, punchy and faster.  The second is about 4 feet further back at my drawing table.  Still sounds good but the bass is just a little overbearing on some tracks.  Actually works out pretty well because I usually sit at my drawing table at night and listen while I work.  The additional bass oomph works well at lower nighttime volumes.  Like a built in loudness button!

Pulling the speakers any farther out into the room might lean them out a bit more.  But it might change the bass nodes also.  You have to experiment with positioning first - both the speakers and your seat.  Or, maybe you've done that already?  

1. Moving the subs around will offer the best solution, assuming that there is no veto vote.
2. A DSP is another solution with or without #1
3. The isolators can work.
4. The XLRs are about the last thing that has a chance of being noticed.

So I would stop before #4, and not start with #4
#3 can be cheap and easy.
#1 is also cheap and easy.

Connectors will NOT affect the sound in any way... unless you have absolutely crappy ones to start with.

Much more importantly, the Luxman has a "loudness" control. Use it :-).  It will make a great difference in the bass frequencies when listening at lower volumes. Look up "Fletcher & Munson curves" for extra explanation.

Ah, I re-read and yes, there are plenty of interconnects that can tighten up the bass range.  I have no experience with your interconnects but I have found that gold and some copper can sound loose or excessive.  I'm using mostly silver wire in my system with plugs (RCA, XLR, and male & female AC) being either rhodium, platinum or palladium plated.  Compared to gold or copper counterparts I've used my system is more detailed top to bottom, with better control, and more precise image focus.  It might be to detailed and not as full-bodied as some would like but you can certainly improve the bass range with other balanced interconnects.  The Moon Audio Silver Dragon works nicely in my system and is relatively affordable.  Otherwise, I'm using DIY cables.

So, is your question about whether other balanced interconnects can improve your bass quality?   And what are you hearing that you don't like?  What improvement(s) are you seeking in the bass range?

 Xlr increases signal to noise ratio.  It will not help the bass .... or the treble for that matter. It just increases noise immunity. It does not change the signal. 

Luxman has some of the best sounding tone controls anywhere, I encourage you to use them.

Consider pushing the speaker on the left back as far as you can, and if ported, experiment plugging the speakers, maybe just the one on the left.

Puritan PSM156

Here’s a photo of the room.

https://ibb.co/F8zLkG7

Odd shaped rooms are good. They cut down on specific reflection points. Look forward to photos, that is helpful. And dimensions. 
 

You probably do not need a consultant. There are lots of references to methods to dial in speakers.

Just to make sure, they are broken in? Make sure they fave several hundred hours on them. Your description fits new unbroken in speakers as well.

I'd give up on cables helping you very much.

What are your speakers and where are they?  

It's an odd shaped room.  Wider at the far end with a  irregular wall than at the seating end.  About 120-140 sqft.  I'll post a photo from my swat tonight.  Speakers are Franco Serblin Accordo Essence.

Thanks. 

Bill

Very unlikely XLR will help bass… it may or may not sound better in your system… if it does it will likely be very small.

Your best bet is speaker placement. Moving the speakers back and forth from the wall, and your listening position. Room treatments, tube traps can tame flabby or too much bass. How big is your room, where are speakers, what kind of speakers?