I've never owned a pair of speakers that I have not listened to before hand...do you guys trust and buy on opinion? If so, have you experienced any great "let down".
Well, maybe I'm just being too stubborn. I will say that I bought a pair of ADS car speakers from Duane years ago without first listening, and they sounded great. But I'm still spooked by that one experience years ago. One reason for my reluctance is that speakers are big and can be difficult to transport and can get damaged, etc. Those things are less of an issue for other components--easier to switch out.
Sure, why not? With some experience you can triangulate on the expected sound based on trusted sources. Moreover, the relationship between a store environment and your living room is quite remote. Narrow your choices based on considered opinion and get return privileges on what you try. I've done it more than once and found that I had accurately anticipated the sound I got.
Six of the last seven speakers ... purchased w/o auditioning ... loved every one of them; the only speaker I auditioned ... Martin-Logans ... loved them thoroughly; the speaker I plan to keep ... despite not having auditioned them first ... the most enjoyable speakers I've ever owned ... Cains
"Yes, my current speakers were bought without prior listening. But for $150 for Altec 604-8G's in 620 factory cabs, I couldn't pay for them and get them loaded fast enough. Church yardsale. Although if I was going to spend serious money on speakers, I would definately listen before buying." -Wwwrecords
Well, OK, but that's different. You knew you were getting a killer-gonzo bargain! You're the same sly dude who snagged a Marantz CD changer for 20 bucks--A MARANTZ CD PLAYER--and a CHANGER, no less--FOR 20 BUCKS (I think that's what you said)!! When it comes to audiophile bargain purchases, you ROCK! :))))))
Yes, my current speakers were bought without prior listening. But for $150 for Altec 604-8G's in 620 factory cabs, I couldn't pay for them and get them loaded fast enough. Church yardsale. Although if I was going to spend serious money on speakers, I would definately listen before buying.
Not a chance in hell. Based on getting psyched up about some hyped up speakers that I thought would be the holy grail. Went to listen, and was blown away--but in a bad way. Any chance that I'd ever buy speakers without first listening disappeared forever on that day.
I've had excellent success (GMA Europa, Rega Ela 2000) buying used speakers without listening to them. I did my research first, and considered the purchase to be an in-home demo, confident I could resell them if disappointed. It's unlikely I would buy NEW speakers without a money-back satisfaction guarantee.
Yep, if I knew I could re-sell them and get most my money back. That is the beauty of Audiogon. They always sound different in your room hooked up to your gear. Listening to a pair at the dealer only gives a good idea (if that) of how they may sound when you get them home. I have to drive two hours to San Francisco to find a good selection of audio products, I just don't have the time. However, if I can find a pair local I will always listen first.
Yep- Von Schweikert DB-99's and couldn't be happier. Found a good price I just couldn't pass up, bought the amps unheard also. Call me crazy but I am LOVING IT!!
After reading this thread, it occurs to me that I may have NEVER listened to ANY of the speakers I have owned since my first real pair of speakers in 1978.
(I did audition my very first pair of Magneplanar MG1-Bs circa 1978, age 14.)
Later, I upgraded to MG-IIbs, and then MG IIIa's, neither of which I heard because they were both special order items from my dealers who did not have them on display.
After the Magnepans, I switched to a pair of Apogee stage speakers that I heard very briefly at a dealer, HOWEVER, this was in a completely different room, with completely different equipment AND with the Apogee woofers which I was not buying. So I certainly didnt hear the speakers as I ordered them. I actually liked them MUCH better at home, AFTER I bought them.
I heard Martin Logan CLS speakers very briefly, but never listened to the SL-3s that I eventually ordered and enjoyed for a few years.
My Magneplanar Tympani IVas were purchased sight unseen from a collector in Canada and shipped directly to Magnepan. Had never heard a pair of Tympanis before but always wanted them.
I bought a pair of Epos speakers over the web because they were on sale and I read several different good reviews about the warmth of their midrange. I love them.
And finally, I just bought a 5.1 set of Infinity TSS 750 speakers with nothing but a sealed box.
Even if they were set up at Circuit City, I dont think the "demo" would have done me much good.
So I am having a bit of a Eureka moment here, which - no offense to you dealers - is making me think that this whole high service, dealer showroom demo stuff is about as helpful as a "full service" stockbroker is to your portfolio. If you know anything about Wall Street, you probably dont take advice or see your broker as ubiased or impartial any more.
Ojgalli
I agree that one should never trust a single review.
But what I have found over the years of this hobby is that if you really do your homework, and you are familiar with this stuff, and you read several reviews and talk to several people and read audiogon etc., you can glean a pretty good impression of how components really sound and fill in any blanks with years of audiophile experience.
In the end, therefore, this leaves me with the paradoxical conclusion that NOT listening (although RESEARCHING) may give you as much useful information through an imaginary "demo" than you will get by sitting in someone else's room, listening to different associated components etc. while being brainwashed by whoever is peddling the gear.
Of course, there are wonderful dealers who succeed in cultivating loyal, long term repeat business relationships who may let you borrow a piece of gear for a couple of days etc, and obviously that is very useful and informative.
But otherwise - I am realizing -- wow - that I have rarely ever listened to ANYTHING before buying it. And yet, I have been able to guess the sounds of things pretty well, and put together coherent systems.
Actually I have spent hours and hours and hours tinkering around hi fi showrooms and having a demo here or there. But this never entirced me into buying anything.
Having owned 5 speakers just this year,alone I felt this as a learning process. I think one speaker sets you up for the next. My downfall started when I bought the Lowther single driver system. It made me aware of how bad the mid/upper mid in my Montana EPS was. One of these set of speakers was David_'s Merlin MM's. The "Where's the beef" comes to mind. It's strange how the stats can claim such and such;i.e.--goes down to such and such.In my room with a fair amount of quality driving which-ever speakers the Wilson Sophia gives up the low mid bass I was missing--(in spades).---I also got this from my Montana speakers but they don't image and the mid/upper mid isn't as good as any speaker I've had since. The Merlins image as well as anything I've heard in my home but the low information doesn't compare to Montana or Wilsons.(its lack thereof)---I guess grafting a Wilson lower to the Merlin MM sounds like that might make it for me. --After all cabinet volume and driver size is a good part of why Merlin is at such a disadvantage. This is just my opinion. In hindsight I see the MM as a large 2 way bookshelf that leaves out MUCH musical information
Yes I have numerous times and finally stopped with the Merlin VSM-MX. As there are no dealers in Ontario, Canada I really had no place to audition them.
bought merlin VSM-Ms and soundlab U2s w/o hearing them first. never warmed up to either, despite their reputations and proponents.
heard my current WP6s years before i bought them. buying them was the best purchase i've made (tied w/ a kenwood KT8300 tuner for $60 and a Wavac SET for $2k)
I bought my first used speakers on Audiogon after always buying new. I never expected to buy without auditioning the speakers first. It was a fairly expensive purchase. It did not work out. While the speakers are I'm sure excellent, they weren't in my setup. Synergy of amp and speakers is critical and sometimes elusive. I did my research extensively, emailed owners etc. I had to sell them on Audiogon and take a loss. Now I've got new speakers on the way. Bought the top of the line from a speaker I owned before. I know what to expect from these speakers. If you don't mind the risk and are willing to face re-sale on Audiogon, then buy without listening. But with big speakers of 150 lbs or more, I doubt I'd do it again.
SoGood51... I blew through this string pretty quickly, but I thought I heard you say your leaning towards a "big" speaker. I bought my Silverline Sonata II's sight unseen (used @ $2750 delivered) and could not be happier. There is a pair of Sonata I's that just got listed for $2250... you may want to consider them... beautiful cabinets, very efficient, and great sound. I also hear unanimous support for Montana speakers and Green Mountain.
I've done it once. Never, never, never again. Both professional and user reviews can be misleading, inaccurate, and incomplete. Professional reviews require reading very, very carefully, paying close attention to subtle clues and passing phrases that will illuminate weaknesses that they may be trying to gloss over. Some reviewers haven't thoroughly auditioned the speakers, and some user are most likely half deaf. After spending a year reading, researching, and listening, I've found that nothing substitutes for listening, and listening more than once with a set selection of your own CDs or LPs that you know intimately. Check the speakers with a test CD, sinewaves, acoustic music, and vocals. And nothing reveals a speaker's abilities better than solo piano and full orchestra. Solo piano for its ability to reveal distortion and realism; the sound of a piano is well known to our ears and most speakers alter a piano's sound in some clearly audible way. Orchestra, because the complexity and range, will show just how well a pair of speakers can resolve detail and their overall balance. Most rock and pop recordings are so over processed they will never tell you anything. Close your eyes and listen.
i bought my gershman avant garde's unheard. i read every single opinion, review, and blurb i could. there was no dealer anywhere near me, but they sounded like the would fit the bill. i auditioned martin logan, soliloquy, revel, thiel, nht, and a few others before taking the chance on the gershmans. i am so glad i did. they lived up to their reputation and then some in my opinion.
Yes I would, and I have. I bought my Green Mountain Europas on the back of recommendations from former owners of Spica speakers, which I used to own.
I would never buy based on magazine review, but I think a review from someone who can reference versus a speaker I already know very well is a safe bet.
Yes. Bought Spendor 1/2E's sight unseen never heard. Not for one instance ever regreted the purchase. Just too many positive things were said. That many people can't ALL be in cahoots with a company. Beside I live in an area that is severely audio challenged. I can listen to some Bose, Polk... I just did it again.
I agree that you haven't "heard" the speaker until it's in your system. So, yes, several times I bought having only auditioned at a store. Now that the stakes are higher, i.e. more $ into components, dedicated room etc., I need to hear it in my environ. Now, the question is, would I buy any component from cables to cd players without first auditioning. I don't subscribe to the "gotta listen for hours/days to assess the speaker" group. I can tell in five minutes whether a speaker is a serious enough upgade to change. If the speaker doesn't blow me away with how drastically better it sounds, then I figure why change? Auditioned my current mains, oh, say 30 seconds and I knew I'd buy them. Got them home, and say 5 minutes of playing in my system and I knew they'd stay. More of a leap of faith was shelling out the extra to run them in a stacked (double pair) configuration. I read a review which lauded it, so I picked up the extra amp, cables, interconnects, and speakers having never heard it. One of the best leaps of faith I've ever taken. My confidence in first seeking out the speakers was bolstered by reading 17 perfect reviews (every review rating a 5 of 5) on audioreview.com I saw that the associated equipment of the reviewers was of high calibur, and assesed their comments accordingly. A great source for assessing components that one cannot audition. I also paid attention to what speakers the reviewers were trading in (namely the ones I owned at the time)for the new one. That spoke volumes.
I just picked up Innersound EROS MKII speakers with never hearing them, and I love them..people say the sweet-spot is too narrow, in my case I cant move my neck at all so its no big deal.
I am just getting back into the game and everything has changed from when I sold stereos to work my way through college in the early 70s. In the last six months, over the internet, I have purchased B&W Matrix 803, B&W CDM2, JM Lab Electra 906, Velodyne SLP-1200, Revel Performa F50 & C50, all used. We are happy with all of the purchases: It even makes my wife happy to argue over which one sounds better. My wife likes the JM Labs & Velodyne SLP-1200 better than the Revels. If she were not watching me type this, I would tell you she is wrong.
Research it first. If you buy it used and do not like it, sell it. If you buy it right, your loss should be minimal. It certainly gives you access to speakers otherwise unavailable.
Absolutely NOT. Just like Larry - I've listened to a lot of "high-end" speakers that I couldn't stand. Nor is it a good idea to make expensive judgments based on the opinions on message boards. (One look at the Audiogon "Recordings to Die For" list will prove that point :) There's always a hardcore group that likes anything (especially the newest, most-hyped equipment) even more so after they've plunked down a few grand and own it. And they're the people who tend to post about it actively, so there's an inherent bias. For example, I dislike the new Gallo Ref III's, but I'm not going to waste my time running around chat boards warning everybody who asks about them, but at the same time there's a few Gallophiles who enjoy raving about them whenever they get the chance.
Once you're above a certain level of design and build quality, it all depends on your particular ears, brain, and likes/dislikes.
And lastlly, one all-important important consideration - the amount of grief you will get from your wife when you have to eat a $1500 loss because you don't like your new speakers as soon as you hook 'em up. Trust me - I know about that firsthand!
Absolutely NOT. I have heard so many very expensive pairs of speakers that I could never live with for any length of time. I realize that it is not practical to expect a home audition, but one can tell quite a lot from hearing a speaker that is set up well in a showroom that one is familiar. If I buy from a dealer, I expect the dealer to help with set up, finding a suitable amp and tweaking.
Currently, very few commercial designs interest me. But, I've heard a number of custom designed systems that sound very good. If I do change my speakers, something I don't expect to do for a long time, I will go that route. That necessarily involves close interaction with the designer and listening to different options, etc.
My next interim upgrade will probably be an active crossover. I know a builder/designer who I can work with towards getting a complex active system to work correctly.
It's my opinion that you have never heard speakers even if you audition them. Every other factor is different. The room you listen in, your amp/preamp or integrated, your cd player, your turntable, your cartridge, your speaker cables, your interconnects are all different and in some case where people have small odd shaped rooms with windows, doors and furniture in them, very, very different. I find buying audio equipment one of the most difficult things I have ever tried to do. I think that if your research finds a consensus of people liking a component, that's as good as you can get.
Back in my "civilian" days, I bought speakers without listening to them first on several occasions, generally with good results.
If you count all my DIY projects (which I had to pay for before hearing), then that would add another fifty or so. Results here were mixed - most of my own designs sucked.
I would say the key to buying speakers unheard is to first know yourself - know what you like and what you don't like a loudspeaker to do, and know what you're willing to compromise if you have to. Second, it helps to understand speaker design to the point where you can make a reasonable assessment of what a given design will and will not do based on objective data - especially as it relates to your priorities (what you like & don't like). Finally, you can give credance to rave reviews, but I have found this to be an unreliable predictor of whether or not I will fall in love with a given loudspeaker.
You know Trelja...I think you would be OK with that move as long as you had a fairly large room.
That said...I had my Apogee Centaur Minors (still do) a good while before I bought my Duetta Signatures..Took over a year to find a pair close enough for a listen before I shelled out the cash.
I should have known that I would like them, still...I waited.
While I am one of the biggest advocates of auditioning a loudspeaker there is, if the right pair of Apogees came up for sale, I think I'd buy them sound unheard (going on the recommendation of people I REALLY trust).
After careful research, I purchased my Green Mountain Audio Europas without the benefit of an audition. Unfortunately, GMA is not represented in upstate NY. Due to this fact, I called GMA directly. When I called GMA, Roy, himself, answered the phone. The owner and chief designer of a company picks up the phone and speaks to the customer directly. Pretty rare I would say. Much to my delight, I had a wonderful conversation with him. Convinced I was in good hands, I ordered a pair of Europas on the spot. I did have to wait due to a back log of orders ahead of me, but that was fine with me. Boy, oh boy, was the wait worth it!
I'd also like to make a comment on the customer service I received after the sale. As I was breaking the speakers in I detected a hissing sound coming from one the speakers. I called Roy to ask for advice. He told me to send the speakers back, on his dime, and he'd personally oversee the trouble shooting process, himself. I also told him that I had accidentally managed to scratch the bottom of one of the speakers. No problem, he'd have the area repainted at no charge. Thank you Roy and everyone at GMA! Anyway, it turns out, they could detect nothing wrong with the speaker. Oddly enough, the sound disappeared. The speakers were sent back to me and I have'nt had a problem since.
I just would like to say that everyone at GMA are top-notch. They really go all out for their customers. Something, which is quite rare these days. Bravo.
I have three times, and was amd am happy each time. Pair one my girlfriend made me get rid of for decor reasons, pair two weren't suitable foe new amps I got, and pair three continues to live happily with me to this day. That's the great thing about buying used, if you're smart it's tough to get burned.
Whatever you buy unheard will sound good. You have to justify it, and most modern speakers sound at least 'good', with a wink and a nod to Julian Hirsch. Sure, there's crap out there, but as most of us have surfed, web research generally yields satisfactory results, or better.
I Have listened to speakers ['sight seen'] that were quickly dismissed. I've since learned not to judge too quickly, although this demo was easily won by Snell [vs/ Paradigms]. It did surprise me as most speakers of Canadian origin are excellent, and I've owned Energys and PSBs which pleased me no end. Chacon son gout [To each his own]!
Dave, I've had the BAT for about 7 years and other than getting the transport/laser overhauled at year 5, its been an excellent unit mechanically. As with all things which have tubes, tube selection makes a difference. I've never bought into the upgrades. Too much money for my ears. It throws a huge soundstage and is very detailed, without being at all bright or rolled off. The only thing I have ever found lacking in it, and this is a minor nit, probably more about me that the unit, is that I still prefer my old Cal Alpha DAC for vocal and instrumental sound. A bit more mid-range emphasis which I find pleasant (and a bit more forward in prospective - not in tone). I keep thinking I aught to upgrade, but then I read all of the reviews and user comments about whats available and go back to listening to music on the old stuff. If you can get a newer BAT, or an older one which has had the laser overhauled, they sure are priced right in comparison to the other stuff I'm seeing on the 'Gon.
Interesting that some of the speakers mentioned are of the work-horse variety, ie..give up a little to gain a lot. These are the types I tend to go with as my choices in speakers for the last couple of pairs.
My question came about after reading so many posts at many different forums (I surf a lot...retired old man) from people asking for speaker advice.
My last pair of small speakers was around 10 years ago (B&W's)...shipping small speakers is not a problem so I should have mentioned that...heck, if you don't like um, sell um.
150-250lb. types which I seem to have an audio fetish for was more in line to my thinking...
Newbee...point taken on the source. After selling my high-end SACD player almost a year ago...I'm still setting here listening to my old Technics Dvd-A10 as a cd source (not because it's GOOD)...can't seem to pull the trigger even though I know cd players are very easy to ship?
I see that you still have the BAT...I recall a post a good while back regarding moving on from that player?
Newbee, Whoops...It may have been CAL transport and cd player I'm thinking about?
after reading and reading...and reading, and emailing owhers of Eminent technology planar hybrids, I am quickly feeling more and more that these might be my speakers, also talking to Bruce there is a pleasure, still wish I could find Ohio or PA owners so I might impose for an audition, but im pretty close to taking the plunge.
I bought my Green Mountain Continuum 3s without auditioning the. Like others, I did loads of research and spoke to Roy who designs and builds them. They far exceeded my expectations.
Bought my Merlin VSM-MM speakers based on the kind responses on Audiogon and Audioasylum.Reading reviews and researching the subject.No chance of a audition.Also bought my Pathos Logos in the same manner.
I bought my Magnepan MG12's unheard. I did a lot of reasearch before buying them. I had also listened to a pair of 1.5's before, so I knew what their house sound was.
In my case, I've only bought one set of speakers from the internet and they were bought without hearing them first. Did a lot of reading and then took the plunge and very glad I did.
I was just reflecting on my post about buying speakers unheard. I should add that I am much more reluctant to purchase source components on line unheard, and when I purchase a speaker I have no expectations of it being a perfect match to my amp. Perhaps thats why I haven't been disappointed.
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