The Parasound Halo JC5 tamed some of the brightness that I had with the Classe Sigma 2 amp. Definitely an all around improvement. More musical, better bass control but it did loose some bass punch.
Then I switched XLR interconnects to Mogami's made by Jerry of 10 Audio. This was a big improvement. Detail, clarity and bass improved. I highly recommend them for $109 for 1 meter pair.
To me the amp and the Mogami XLR's ended my search for improvement. My system sounds great to me.
FYI I was using XLR's by Raven Audio. Jerry cables are listed here on Audiogon.
My system:
NAD C 658 Preamp with HDMI module. Parasound Halo JC5. Audioquest NRG-Z2 Ac power cords for pre and amp. Velodyne HGS 10 sub. LG 65 inch TV. Logitech 665 Remote. Arcam DVD/CD. Mogami XLR's By Jerry at 10 Audio. Audioquest Cinnamon 48 HDMI cables. Audioquest Greyhound Sub cable. Mogami speaker wire 2921. Speakers are Bi-wired. Sonus Faber Olympica III.
You guys are like a cult of Dr. Toole. You keep posting this "test" that uses shitty little 6 inch monitors and nobody hears a difference. No surprise there, that system is almost a Best Buy bargain special. You guys have to stop embarrassing yourselves. The REAL test is in your own system with your own source material and we aren't using 6 inch two ways....
Happy Sunday already :) Hearing test was a success - No further reduction in hearing from 2014 test. Still a roll-off at 1500 thru 7K . Women and children are often in that range. Bottom end-not so. Will look to add a new SUB soon :) Doc says a hearing aid is needed when my friends are no longer inviting me to discussions because I no longer contribute to the conversation because I miss to much of the dialogue.
More power to ya if you can be happy listening to a 400.00$ amp.Good luck you’ll need it.I wish I could.My ears craved better sound than that when I was 14 years old,mowing lawns to feed my addiction to Hi-Fi. After 40 years I’ve spent about 250k.My amplifiers now cost 13k more than the last three year old used car I bought.So if you can be happy with a 400$ amp, or a lifeless digital amp,you should consider yourself lucky,and or deaf.At least you’ll have some money left over for good hearing aids my friend.
somewhere in this thread "hearing" became inportant....so I made a Dr's appointment 3.10.2021 at 3PM to check my hearing . Afraid of what I might find out . My "wife" and audio engineer/recording artist "son" both claim I have hearing issues ..... So I might find chasing this holy grail will be forced to take a left turn instead of a right.
Specs are like the ingredients list in a recipe. They are just the starting point. Give 3 different good chefs the same ingredients, and I guarantee you'll get 3 different tasting meals with 3 different presentations.
greywolf Upon a bit more pondering, I don't think those are not even good specs. The THC is not even with a full range signal, and double my Audires. The frequency respoonse is down a decibel at 20,000 cps, vs my 1- 100,000 cps that is flat to well over 25,000 cps. I bet the Classe you have is better, at least on paper. The signal to noise ration is nothing special, being a full 10 db worse than the 30 plus old Audires, and more akin to an almost 50 year old Phase Linear. It may sound awesome, but not because of those specs..
greywolf As far as pure stats go, not one spec you cite beats my 30 plus year old Audire amps and preamps. ERGO: That would not be the reason to change. I would certainly presume this amp sounds better than my relics, but I did have some very fine Classe amps and preamps given to me, and they were not as good sounding, not because of any specs, but because of a feeling of the sound being artificially faked to spread out everywhere. Maybe you should just enjoy the music.
In my experience everything changes the sound.. tubes, speaker cables, interconnects, power cords and most certainly a piece of gear. I didn't note you expressed a sonic deficiency you wanted to change. You do understand a different amp could very easily mean different speaker cables and interconnects.. and power cords. The better the resolution of your system the larger the changes in anything will appear.
You post your blind listening test result that show that anything other than source material, speakers and room make any audible difference. I’ll keep posting examples of where people who were utterly convinced they could tell differences in amps, cables, racks, etc find out that they just can't.That's funny, I bought a krell amp to replace my adcom amp, I couldn't stand the sound of the krell with my adcom preamp it was so bright, but sounded good with the adcom amp. I replaced the adcom preamp and it sounds great now
Geez, my wife (and she isn’t “into it”) can hear the differences between amps... trust me, I’ve had a few now. To the OP, I agree with what you were told by the sales guy. Current can make a significant difference, possibly very profound. A class D amp is going to sound very different from a class A amp, even A/B, different circuits. Just is what it is. Then you get into SET, FET, MOSFET, bipolar circuits within all of that. They all have sonic signatures. I also agree that a tube preamp into an SS amp can make huge differences. “Better” is in the ears of the beholder... I just put a Rogue Audio RP5 into my system with a Pass Labs XA25, so far the combo is great. The Rogue replace an XP12 SS pre. The tubes just sound a bit smoother, more “natural” to my ears. No listening fatigue at all. Anyway, this game is about experimenting and finding the best combo you can afford... it’s a lot of fun. Sometimes.
Test still needs to be blind whether it takes minutes or weeks. Whether one agrees with bluemoon or not you have 0 evidence to support your statement just like everyone else making this claim
That's the beauty of it. I don't have to prove or disprove anything. I use my ears. And if it sounds better to me, it IS better.
You objective guys overthink this every time. It's not clinical science. It's AUDIO. You are supposed to E-N-J-O-Y this hobby. But you can't because of the stick up your butt. Relax and let the music wash over you, you'll be surprised at what you might hear.
I agree with above statement. Change the preamp first. For tubes I would go with Rouge RP5 or RP7 RP5 has phono stage RP7 no phono but fully balanced or Hegel P20 or P30 for solid state. Everyone wants to change the amp but their missing the big picture. My local shop that sells both. https://holmaudio.com/ Also, Change you power cord on your amp from the stock to a 14 AWG or 12 AWG cable
Musical fidelity is not the same musical fidelity, as the company was sold. Despite this, they still put out decent products. I own quite a few of their "small box" products, such as the v90 dac...good stuff...
-The respected British hi-fi manufacturer Musical Fidelity is now owned by Austrian company Audio Tuning Vertriebs GmbH, which also owns Pro-Ject Audio Systems, and the new owner has assured audiophiles that the future is bright for the iconic British brand.Aug 9, 2018-
I know! It is surprising isn’t it. Cheap cables tossed over a chair. Basic receiver. Sounded just as good or better than the much more expensive set up under blind conditions - as long as the room and speakers and source was the same. (They didn’t all stay in the room for the listening tests of course). Reassuring though, isn’t it.
@bluemoodriver, the DBT you posted is hysterical. Between the "high-end system" and 5 dudes in the sweet spot, you're really making quite the case. I can't believe they weren't able to tell the difference! LOL
I would expect you to see a decent improvement with the MF amp. improved dynamics makes music much more enjoyable and your speakers deserve a better amp.
you should also look at a power conditioner called PSM156 by puritan audio. check out the comments on Audiogon.
You will hear big improvements with clarity, separation and timbre. You will hear what your current amp is really capable of and it will improve the pre amp too.
Hi Greywolf. At least check
out the Starke A4-320 amp. Priced right, a USA company, sounds as good as the Purifi modules in the NAD M33 and the LKV power amp. Super value! 4 (bridgeable) channels for the price of 2. Linear power supply, no switching noise radiating into your other equipment. I have three of them powering 11 channels in a 5.0 system using Linkwitz LX521-4 speakers as the stereo pair (each side a 4 way with one amp per speaker - 8 channels for the stereo pair - electronic crossovers.). Excellent results powering Magnepans, too. Keep Smiling! It's music we want to hear, yes? Why spend money on cosmetics? Save your money for music and concert tickets. Enjoy!
Ozzy - well, that’s odd, because folks keep posting that the changes they hear when swapping cables, adding a Schumann resonator, placing a crystal on top, auditioning at their local store, etc, all reveals almost instant results!
Don’t worry about me! I love my source material, my speakers, and my rooms. I worked with audio designers who helped me get the ideal speaker and room set up for me (and my son), and I followed their advice. As it happens I had an amp built for my son’s studio too! All are fit for purpose. The sound is fantastic. The investment was where it mattered. On the designers’ express advice, nothing was wasted where it doesn’t matter. That custom amp? Kettle chord is what the designer recommended. Standard fuse too - any way around I wanted. I just worry about folks getting ripped off for $1000s by merchants whose claims, under any kind of scrutiny, just don’t stand up. You see them here all the time - cries for help : “I need a cable that will give me more bass”... and there is no shortage of people saying “get these, they sound great, and only $2000 per meter!” It’s plain wrong.
I love the preamp. That is very much the digital module within the M33 and is an awesome value. There is a surprising bias against Classic series stuff from NAD. That is a great unit.
I would partially agree with the sales rep. It is not the fact that your amp is a Class D, it is that particular Classe amp is a bit older and not quite as refined as some of the more recent class D units that have been produced. The NAD C298 would have passed it by in terms of tech and sound quality.
It isn't inherently bad, there are just amps that can give you more and if you bought it recently, you probably paid less than $1500 for it and that is an awesome amp for that price. I sold one not that long.
That MF amp is great. Tons of current and will have control over the drivers, just as he pointed out. There are other options, but that amps is a strong value and is well thought in terms of pairing with your speakers.
It will sound more natural than your Classe. It is a great product.
@ozzy62, Very well stated. There are clear distinctions with longer term listening compared to short duration involving shifting from one component to another (Which isn't how people listen in a natural setting). This seems so intuitive and self evident but obviously not everyone agrees with this. Charles
Long term listening bears out differences that snippets of music in an A/B/X stress test does not. If your hobby is listening to test tones, reading measurements and doing blind tests, you might be better served with a different form of entertainment. Maybe high end audio is not for you. No need to be ashamed, it's not for everyone.
You post your blind listening test result that show that anything other than source material, speakers and room make any audible difference. I’ll keep posting examples of where people who were utterly convinced they could tell differences in amps, cables, racks, etc find out that they just can’t.
You should thank these dedicated audiophile colleagues because they are saving you from spending money on what doesn’t matter (cables, amps, racks, crystals, etc) so you can spend it instead on what does matter (source material, speakers, and your room).
He should thank you for providing a very good example of what NOT to do. Ignoring quality amplification, cables, source components etc. is a sure fire way to end up with a mediocre system. If that is his goal I implore him to follow your advice.
When the source material is the same and the speakers are the same and the room is the same, it seems differences in what kit lies between them have a negligible effect when the listening is blind. Examples abound:
It’s no use saying “but I can tell”. All these guys thought that too.
You should thank these dedicated audiophile colleagues because they are saving you from spending money on what doesn’t matter (cables, amps, racks, crystals, etc) so you can spend it instead on what does matter (source material, speakers, and your room).
What I ended up with for my Sonas Faber Olympica III speakers.
NAD C 658 Preamp with HDMI module. Classe Amp 2 amp. Velodyne HGS 10 sub. Had this unit. LG 65 inch TV. Had this. Logitech 665 Remote. Arcam DVD/CD. Raven Audio XLR's. Audio Quest Cinnamon 48 HDMI cables. Audio Quest Greyhound Sub cable. Mogami speaker wire. Speakers are Bi-Amped. Classe amp made for this.
System is for TV and music in our living room. Over all pleased with it. I have had various equipment in the past but never the grade of what I have now. I have owned a few amps for surround sound(back to 2 channel) but older used equipment like an Outlaw 750.
I was thinking of changing amps to get a less forward sound was one reason. The other to just give the O'III's more power. I have experienced what more power can do.
From the salesman about switching amps,
Answering that really depends on your specific goals for
sound quality but overall I would say that yes, this is a significant upgrade
over the Classe unit. The Classe unit actually uses a class D output amplifier
which are known for being very dynamic and punchy, however they aren’t quite as smooth and fluid in the midrange.
The Musical Fidelity’s biggest advantage is not actually the
increase in raw power but actually the fact that it is capable pf producing
much more current which will not only help control the speakers better but it
will also give you a much more fluid sounding midrange. In this case the more
traditional design of the MF will be a better fit for your specific speakers.
Who would agree with salesman?
I believe I will hear a difference but is it worth the cost.
IMO amps do make a difference. Arguing about it is like arguing about what oil and filter to use in your vehicle.
I have a Musical Fidelity M6PRX driving a pair of Magico Mini IIs using a primarily digital front end (Mytek Brooklyn+ DAC, Lumin U2 Mini network player). Previously, I was using a Peachtree Nova. The MF provides more detailed transients and a more defined soundstage, more separated from the speakers. Build quality is excellent. Aesthetics are fairly spartan. Finish is a lightly textured powder-coat. No frills. Overall, I've been very happy with the MF. The Magicos need good power and the MF seems to delver. I would agree with other posters who say it's a great value for the $. I've had the MF for about a year and have no regrets.
The first thing you should be asking yourself is "what is driving me to be considering changing amplifiers? There must be some factor that you are not totally satisfied with from a musical reproduction point of view. Naturally, every audiophile strives to own a system that brings them closer to the "live" experience. Of course the music genre you prefer could play a great part in how different electronics would sound to you. I have proven to myself over the years that there are many other system consideration that could have a more profound effect on your listening experience, than playing "spin the bottle" with amplifier changes. I believe I can safely say that any number of amps could provide a highly enjoyable listening experience, but yielding only slight differences in their sonic signature. A high quality tube based amp would most likely demonstrate a more discernible presentation in comparison to the solid state electronics you are used to. Perhaps this may be the direction you should explore before deciding on and change.
@rh67, That's an interesting fact to know. I suspect even beyond his unilateral hearing deficit he took a philosophical stance that amplifiers by and large sound the same. It seems the electrical engineer side (So to speak) of him was very content to rely comfortably on measurements and specifications to form and justify his review conclusions. Charles
coffee-jerk52 posts02-28-2021 8:20pmI have one ear that is down 60dB in the middle and high frequencies, and I have horrible tinnitus on that side only. My good ear still demands terribly good equipment.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And rightly so... I'm with you..
Good mono is better than scratchy stereo. I got a buddy in the same boat. He actually plugs one ear and prefers it when listening. He has a good EAR, still. 79 years old..
I have one ear that is down 60dB in the middle and high frequencies, and I have horrible tinnitus on that side only. My good ear still demands terribly good equipment.
Julian Hirsch was also deaf in one ear. I spent some time with him thru the years and he truly believed that equipment which measured the same sounded the same, well to him it did.
I just finished auditioning amps and can without a doubt tell you they sound different. What I can also tell you is that it is like choosing your favorite ice cream. Not sure one is “better” than another, but that you need to find the flavor that you like.
And I can also see how after a few years it might be good to change it up a bit.
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