Why should audiophile deniers be allowed on an audiophile forum?
Why should we be subjected to audiophile deniers, on a site dedicated to audio?
It’s antithetical to the hobby and adds nothing to the pursuit. I want to quote something from another thread.
@djones51 wrote "exposing bull products like "audiophile switches, cables, fuses " and other highly questionable devices that serve no purpose"
What then, is the purpose of people with this agenda being on this site? To “expose bull products.” It’s fine for someone to post they tried a product and it didn’t work for them, but to dismiss entire product categories is not a discussion that belongs on an enthusiast forum.
Would a car enthusiast site stand for this type of post?
Try going on a Porsche forum, just for example, and posting that your Mustang is just as fast 0-60 and that others poster’s claims about their driving experience is “dubious.” See how long that will be tolerated
There are plenty of sites to poke fun at audiophile’s obsession with cables, power conditioners etc. Why does it belong here, especially when we can’t mute specific posters?
What’s next? Arguing that speakers that measure the same must sound the same and that we are all suckers for buying expensive speakers? I thought we got rid of trolling?
Isn’t it obvious with all the ASR related posts here lately we are being trolled?
A couple of months back I read a post here about someone that ordered a new cat8 cable from China. I tried it and posted back my fantastic results for others to benefit.
Personally that’s the kind of forum I’m interested in, not to come here to be challenged about what I hear and that since it can’t be measured so it must be “dubious.”
I got that impression because that is effectively what you wrote. While things are screwed up here, wrt free speech and free thought, no, it has not been screwed up here till somewhat recently. Now we have both sides trying to screw each other. How is that working out?
JK Rowling was not blown out of proportion, nor is the issue with female athletes competing with trans people. This is mainstream news including JK. Do you have any female friends?
There are not some people unaware. There are whole countries of people, 100's of millions of people if not billion+ totally unaware, and should be aware. That is where censorship leads. It is and had always been about control.
Mahgister is an adult and you seem as worked up as him.
Take a look at bill c67 in Canada...It is because of this that Jordan Peterson became known everywhere...he protest against it...
but it’s just another opinion, isn’t it? Everyone’s free to say what they think, aren’t they? Nothing is being forced on you, aside from having to listen.
You are too old my friend!
Reality is tweeter and facebook... people live thereoa great amount of time each day and they take their news there... Why do you think it is so important to limit the power of these corporations?
By the way there is no real competitions now more of a gang complicity...Awake... Three corporations controls almost all products...
All that "canceling" of Rowling is of minor importance and blown all out of proportion to the general population, unless you live on Twitter or some other social medium and think that's reality.
I feel your position is clouded by a belief that because things are relatively good today, that they will always be so. I don't share that belief and history is on my side.
Where on earth did you get that impression from what I wrote? Things are horribly askew these days and not getting any better. Sounds like you're either reading between the lines, something that isn't there, or just provocatively trolling away to have relevance and in the end, making a fool of yourself.
I feel that biological women are at a disadvantage as well in the scenario you speak of and that "canceling" someone for saying so is wrong, but it's just another opinion, isn't it? Everyone's free to say what they think, aren't they? Nothing is being forced on you, aside from having to listen.
All that "canceling" of Rowling is of minor importance and blown all out of proportion to the general population, unless you live on Twitter or some other social medium and think that's reality. If you do, I pity you.
As for "Russians are somewhat killing people indiscriminately", I hold you in the highest of contempt for that statement: it's wholesale slaughter and war crimes of the highest nature. Yes, there may be some people who are unaware of it but what's the point?
As for me being aware of that may be happening here, all I can say is what rock have you been living under and welcome to the party, pal. You're way behind the curve when it comes to the dangers this country faces in the here and now and I don't need a lecture from some tyro to warn me of what's possible.
And dont forgot to meditate about the deep symbolic and concrete meaning of voices polyphonics and rythms in pygmies society, our human craddle and the ONLY human house :
By the way a great jazz musician decided decades ago to go back to Africa...for purely musical reason and investigation... Not for nostalgical racial reason at all by the way like the return in Africa for some others...In his case it was a pure musical problem he wanted to understand...
He want to understand what a freshly arrived african mysteriously say about music in America: "it did not roll most of the times "...Without explaining it...
Then he take the boat and go in Africa investigate African music...
His discovery after a long trip was this:
Music "roll" inside itself when the tempo rise with the music itself and trough and in the body rising tides and when it is not imposed over the melody and over the body by an external metronimic mechanical way...
Some jazz "roll" better than other piece of jazz, even some classical interpretation of written music like Furtwangler for example "roll" better than with some other maestro...
Then he came back to America again happy to understand why good music must "roll" inside itself...
I forgot his name sorry...
😁😊
Now guess why the fact that some music "roll" has something to do with the origin of the human society and language ?
😁😊
And guess what is the relation to censorship...
These posts remind me of my job with the students... Sorry if i am "pedantic here"...
Nonoise was not wrong about that i guess...
But i will not change much at 71 now... 😁😊
By the way there is a deep relation about music, timing, and time and non commutative geometry and symmetry breaking and the Pytagorean origin of occidental science and music notions , but it will be too much "pedantic" for the thread and too long to be explained... You see i can control myself... 😁😊
In Trudeau Canada your future is here to be seen...Take a look!
Your speech will be controlled...
And Controls under the skin is coming and welcome...For now it is a vaxx card but wait it will be improved soon...
Read Orwell and Huxley, they are already beaten and overpassed anyway by all events now....
Like said Yuval Harari the prophet men are not free, "free will" never existed, and the soul is like an optical illusion, men are here to be hacked...Many can and will be hacked... Bill Gates like that ....
Just this week a law is discussed where it will be an unelected few at the head of WHO who will decide OVER elected officials of all countries law what we must do in a pandemic case and they will decide "scientifically for sure" what a pandemy is and when... Look at Shangai now if you want a preview... Bill Gates loves that ...Gives him the key...( No it is not a conspiracy it is FACT it is the biggest contributor in money to the WHO)
And right now an Australian heroic journalist will de deported to be imprison and suicided in the Soviet empire, oups excuse in America ,for no reason save publishing the truth...No protest in North America.... It remind me of Soljenitsyn deportation...
Welcome to the future next door...
And some want more censorship or want to be ruled by youtube, tweeter, and banned like the deluded IMPOTENT president Trump was by decree of unlected rich NOBODIES...Have you not seen the reaction of Trudeau government about pacific protest? A bill about bank account suspension?
911 was when? 22 years ago soon... It islike nobody had learn anything... They think right or left... 😁😊 they scapegoat their neighbours like in the Hebrew desert some tribes asking for their sin forgiveness...
i am flabbergasted each day...
People are so brainwashed in North america already i must self-censor myself even here...
They dont even want to know that we all became robot already, the programmation has alrady begun...
Mankind soul is uprooted now by corporate power like pygmies bodies were uprroted by forced exile in the colonization of their forest by European corporation and political small powers...
Language is born with laughs and music and with the new "symbolic" world 300, 000 years ago by the better synchronization of sexes in education and hunt practice of the members tribes and the refusal of our brother apes their censorship habits and male domination ... Today the new symbolic space is a soul prison and we ask for censorship and our music is the silence of those who will be hacked and wish for it and will liked that...
"Wait you will own nothing and you will be happy "
There is enough crisis now to be prepared and well cooked already : a good and "just" war, another pandemic, a climate crisis, count your last freedom days...
And call me a conspirationist...
I will call you an ostrich...
It is all about deciding what type of society you want to live in.
I feel your position is clouded by a belief that because things are relatively good today, that they will always be so. I don't share that belief and history is on my side.
As for anyone about to be "canceled" , are you feeling guilty about something?
Is a negative response to what you say enough to drive you over the cliff decrying "cancel culture"? If so, that sounds a lot like projection on your part and a device to hide behind, which is what claiming "cancel culture" is, after all.
This post to me is ignorant of today's reality. Take for instance, and I would appreciate some leeway from mods, trans rights to participate in sport. I don't feel at all guilty saying that biological women are at a disadvantage and this should not be allowed. I also don't feel guilty saying that a biological woman's live experience is different from a trans person. However, it today's world, there is a large contingent that will want to cancel you. Just look at J.K. Rowling.
Similarly, there is a large body of scientific evidence that shows that our brains continue to develop till our early 20's and that most teens with gender dysphoria naturally gravitate to their biological sex over time. Even stating that, which is pure scientific data, can get you a slap on the wrist on Twitter and don't even consider suggesting that reasonable limits for gender transition for teens is a good idea in some circles, or you will be labelled all kinds of nasty things even though your position is based on scientific facts.
I could give you many examples where having reasonable views will have people attempt to cancel you. The end result is lack of communication and societal division.
In Russia right now, many people are totally unaware that Russians are somewhat indiscriminately killing people in Ukraine. People in China are also unaware. You think that can't happen here? There are many examples in our world today where freedom, especially around speech, but as much communication of thought, are being reduced. To think it will not happen here and not impact your family directly is not a supportable position.
: a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction
Not sure who you are complaining about.
The focus (or target?) of the OP “Audiophile’s” would seem to cover a wide range of people who enjoy listening to music. Or even sound effects?
There will always be spirited battles between the subjectivists and objectivists. Many “audiophiles” probably reside in both camps to one degree or another. I don’t believe I hear any difference using myriad items claimed to improve or enhance the sound of the music I listen to.
I do hear differences between many pieces of equipment.
@djones51, I will try to unpack this as best as I can. Let's start by saying that this place, is, for the most part, not infrastructure so what I would apply to other entities, even Facebook, would not appear here.
If you're saying that the internet should be regulated by the FCC the same as the airspace is for broadcast TV then that's a different discussion and not one I would necessarily be against.
I am saying that we have allowed the line between "Private" entities and public utilities to blur too far. Many aspects of Facebook, especially the communications aspects, are an effective equivalent of a public utility. In the past, a telephone could not be refused by Ma Bell unless bills were not paid or the phone was used for illegal purposes. No one was threatening to burn down their offices because someone, someone did not like, was allowed to have a telephone.
I would put Banks, and credit cards / payment processing into that, i.e. Paypal. There is enough concentration into few enough companies, that I think a legal requirement to serve is essential if we want to preserve the concept of free speech. Ditto would be for ISPs and access to the Internet.
Today, say the wrong thing, upset the wrong 10%, 25%, etc. of the population and Credit Card companies will refuse to process your payments, etc. even though you are doing nothing illegal. ISPs may refuse you service, etc.
What is the point of having a legal right to criticize the government, etc. if private companies are able to eliminate your ability to have a voice. You can't even create your own platform unless you are exceedingly wealthy because again, Credit Cards won't process your payments, ISPs won't allow you access, etc. Very very dangerous precedent.
I see right to access laws as beneficial for these companies as well. One has to expect that while some of their banning is partisan politics, a lot of it is just knee jerk reactions because it is easier to ban one person, then it is to stand up to the mobs insisting that person is cancelled. If these companies are not legally able to cancel that person, except for illegal activity, then those companies don't have to worry about the outraged mobs.
To wit, YOU can boycott Hobby Lobby all you want, same as I can avoid ULINE if at all possible (I really wish they had some effective competition).
However, what I don't think is acceptable, is that you and an outraged mob, lobby Hobby Lobby's bank, which I consider an essential service, effectively infrastructure, such that the bank feels pressured to drop them as a client. I would likely extend that to Facebook as it has become ubiquitous, and perhaps even Youtube. You-tube does not like your politics and they demonetize your videos (but happily capitalize on the mindshare of the viewers you bring to their platform).
These are private entities, BUT they rely heavily on public infrastructure to survive, including physical space, airwaves, etc. Private company, you don't want to allow XXX to use your network, that's okay, we will take usage of 1.5-1.75GHz away from you, I hope it was not important. Mr. Bank, you don't want to serve this customer? No problem. Now you must have 100% assets to match your lending because you don't get to print money from the central bank any more. Youtube, you don't want to allow certain people? No problem, your data can longer be carried on any infrastructure that makes use of public land.
It is all about deciding what type of society you want to live in.
Me, shouting? That's rich coming from you. You're operating under the notion that you can say whatever you want but I have to watch what I say. Free speech, and the discussion of it, is a two way street.
One thing I've pointed out in many threads over the years, is that all posts should remain up for all to see, warts and all. That way all can get a handle on just who they're dealing with, and if they want, to never deal with them again if they wish.
Another is that those that cry and wail against censorship, are the first to have members posts removed after they've replied to their offending posts. Rank hypocrisy every single time.
As for the OPs question, I've already stated how I feel.
As for anyone about to be "canceled" , are you feeling guilty about something?
Is a negative response to what you say enough to drive you over the cliff decrying "cancel culture"? If so, that sounds a lot like projection on your part and a device to hide behind, which is what claiming "cancel culture" is, after all.
For example, just how seriously do you take the OPs complaint?
Are some of us about to be ’cancelled’?
The OP was complaining about me. If the owners of Audiogon want to cancel me or toss me off that's their prerogative. It's the price I paid when I voluntarily joined this site and agreed to their terms.
These days, both sides of the aisle are advocating censorship. It’s one thing to get it from one side, but now we’re getting from both sides. This is a disturbing trend, to say the least.
I consider it quite fair that someone, in light of these trends, would be alarmed to see people willingly and eagerly advocating censorship, regardless of the venue and their policies.
It’s one thing for the managers of a venue to implement restrictions on their patrons’ behavior, but it’s another thing to see the venue’s patrons REQUESTING a loss of freedom. It seems self-defeating, masochistic…I dunno…stupid? “I couldn’t help but notice there’s not enough censorship here, Mr. Director, may we please have some more?”
I will challenge this kind of thinking regardless of the venue, because I think it is bad and indicative of an accepted mode of thinking in our population that is more than complicit in the erosion of our freedoms.
-----
Me too.
It’s an unfortunate fact that because of the pyramid-shaped way that power structures are usually arranged, it’s often all too easy for unrepresentative pressure groups to have an unwarranted influence upon the way that policies are formed.
You could even argue that it’s directly lead to "cancel culture", an oxymoron if ever there was one. Speaking of which, yes you @nonoise, there do seem to be some among us here who appear to be constantly shouting.
Therefore it might be interesting to have someone from the forum administration to also chip in with their opinion on this subject.
For example, just how seriously do you take the OPs complaint?
Are some of us about to be ’cancelled’?
Is this forum about to be transformed into an advertising agency?
but perhaps are missing the big picture, discrimination for what you think.
I can think whatever I want, but no private entity is required to offer me a soapbox. You can stand on the sidewalk and picket but you can't go on private property and not expect pushback.
Obviously there is a need for much stronger laws in this current technical environment to protect free speech. WHY? Because government has allowed private companies to take on responsibility for what would have traditionally been at some level "public utilities".
If you're saying that the internet should be regulated by the FCC the same as the airspace is for broadcast TV then that's a different discussion and not one I would necessarily be against.
That has benefits to both the public with w.r.t. to protecting both not only the concept of free speech, but also for these entities as they stop being targets for malicious public abuse by the "mob".
No sure who this mob is you're talking about. Are you advocating censorship of the mob? I can't boycott Hobby Lobby because I dislike their politics?
We have enshrined protections preventing discrimination on the basis of religion, sex, gender, ....... but perhaps are missing the big picture, discrimination for what you think.
I’ve yet to see any laws discriminating on what you think. Using platforms as a vehicle for hate, oppression, and elimination have to be regulated. Anything less is a fool’s idea of utopia.
This reminds me of the movie Forbidden Planet, where they find an old and great civilization that created a machine that could materialize everyone’s thoughts, wishes and imaginings, and in one night, they killed themselves in a mass genocide.
One scientist who tried the machine and died of it, said before passing on,
"creatures from the Id...".
That is a nice fantasy world you live in @djones51, BUT, we have payment companies cancelling people, we have ISP’s cancelling people.
Obviously there is a need for much stronger laws in this current technical environment to protect free speech. WHY? Because government has allowed private companies to take on responsibility for what would have traditionally been at some level "public utilities".
Banks, Credit Card companies, ISPs, etc. and other government regulated entities should not be allowed to refuse service unless the intended usage is illegal.
That has benefits to both the public with w.r.t. to protecting both not only the concept of free speech, but also for these entities as they stop being targets for malicious public abuse by the "mob".
We need to be concerned with more than just the present legal definition of free speech and start acting on the principle of free speech and what enables (or disables it).
These "private" entities such as Banks, ISPs, Credit Card companies rely on the good will of government and public to operate, whether it is access to virtual money to lend, public physical property on which to run their cables, even roads to transport goods.
Keep in mind, I am no way advocating socialism, simply that the Government needs to be for the people and needs to look out for the best interests of people more than they currently are.
We have enshrined protections preventing discrimination on the basis of religion, sex, gender, ....... but perhaps are missing the big picture, discrimination for what you think.
I cannot determine if he is feigning naivety or being disingenuous in the assertion that "if one is really intent on getting out their message , go to the nearest public square.....". The public square is unfortunately now social media and internet forums.
This site in not part of the public square. This is a private site. The internet in general under certain circumstances is considered "public". In other words as long as there is somewhere on the internet, even if it’s one site already in existence or one you start where you can " air your grievances" then your Free Speech rights have not been violated.
Facebook, Linkedin, Twitter.....these are now THE conduit for information worldwide. When that happens, a site owner loses some flexibility in my eyes.
Wrong, only the conduit that carries the message, the wires or wireless, not the owner of the vehicles "Facebook etc.." traveling the wire is protected. You cannot be refused access to the internet, the wire, based on your Free Speech rights you can most certainly be banned from the vehicles.
This is the problem in a nutshell. To many people do not understand how the First amendment protects your Free Speech rights from intrusion or punishment from the Government and even then there are still limits. At least in the United States not sure about the rest of the world.
To make an analogy, Newspapers can censor or refuse to print what you say. The government or competing newspapers cannot keep your from printing and circulating your own newspaper. You want the world to know how much of an AH you are , start a blog.
Don’t know and don’t really care but in the interest of clarity it should have been done a long time before it was IMHO based on malicious actions I and others are aware of, not just words.
If you think it’s because of censorship you are likely wrong. I know for a fact the mods went out of their way to not censor Mr. Miller. So he must have done something very wrong other than talk to change that.
There are always certain lines that people should not be allowed to cross. I am very confident the mods do not ban people without good cause.
Why was Millercarbon banished? Censorship is a tool of elites who view themself as more noble and more knowledgeable than others. Freedom of speech is a concept not required by people who express popular ideas.
I am hesitant to respond here as these tribal tennis matches have no solution. I would suggest to nonoise, I cannot determine if he is feigning naivety or being disingenuous in the assertion that "if one is really intent on getting out their message , go to the nearest public square.....". The public square is unfortunately now social media and internet forums. Even the traditional college campus free space- once a bastion of free speech- is now unsafe for varying views from youthful idealism; it has been muzzled. I support a private business right to set norms for their site, until their site transforms into a shared platform of national/international scope; when it becomes the de facto method of communication, like the telephone once was . Facebook, Linkedin, Twitter.....these are now THE conduit for information worldwide. When that happens, a site owner loses some flexibility in my eyes.
I am happy to say that you may be right here...But i hope you will not appeal to my ban in the desert...
I spoke too much yes...i hope with originality, arguments and the less insults possible or the less rudeness possible...
But anyway there is always a LINK between my posts matter...
I know for sure you are very intelligent you will discover it...
Humans invented language precisely by eliminating authoritatian apes self censorship? By inventing laughing and synchronized polyphony and rythms a marvellous social tools...They create a ladder toward the symbolic unreal world, and this social virtual new created world was used as tool to manage in a better way, education and hunt in the real world...Is it not extraordinary?
This is the reason why i posted a link to a very interesting conference about the origin of language and his link to music as social tools...There is a lesson hidden here...
Do you see the link with the censorship matter and the polarization of society?
Or am i out of the discussion always in the fringe of " idealism"?
Or just pedantic for the sake of being pedantic?
A little bit pedantic,yes, i assume my human defect...
This kind of post is your habit...At least i try not to insult people most of the times and i answer to arguments... I answered each one of yours... You call my answers arguments with no counter argument from yours save a label an "idealism gobblewick" or hypocrital accusation coming from your mimicking paranoiac discourse for your enemies or your foes, then ? Everyone is an ally or an enemies for you...
Write to Daryl Davis and say to him he is " a room low IQ idealist " so to speak because he trust free speech and education over censorship of any kind...
No need to write the name of your party affiliation to guess it nor the name of the party you despised...
I say that to you because i hate political left /right discussions... they divide people...They made no sense at all now...America is dying from this puppets controlled theater ...Canada is dead now...
I apologize when i am wrong by the way ...
And i am sometimes wrong being imperfect...it is the reason why you read my apology... Are you surprized that i can be wrong?
I am not...
Call that hypocrisy if you want, others will decide ...
But if by my own human weakness i give in to the tentation to insult you or anybody or if i am too rude in the heat of a discussion , i will apologize another time...It is the less i can do...
bsolute hogwash. You’re intentionally conflating the concept of "free speech" as written in the Constitution with what can be said on a privately owned site. You don’t fool anyone (with an IQ above room temperature) with your victim signaling.
Like usual Mr. Always Right Nonoise, insult someone because this someone is out of the "party" line...
Nowhere in what I said did I mention "party" line. It is you who are injecting politics into this, not me. I've pointed that out to you repeatedly and yet you persist in lying.
You're becoming quite the horses's ass, aren't you? That, and you're revealing a rather dark side of yourself that you're continually apologizing for when others correct or challenge you. Then you pretend to agree with them and go off topic, as usual, hoping they forget what you said.
As for your insipid takedown of stochastic terrorism, it's nothing more than pseudo idealistic gobbledegook; random phrases and quotes like one would get out of a word/phrase generator run by AI.
If people are unable to understand simple matter like the necessary correlation between subjective impressions and objective measured numbers not only in electronic design but in acoustic experience, if people are so tribal to ask for censorship of the other political side for security reason, i am a bit sad and pessimist about right now the newly proposed horrible international law fby those who want to place in the hand of unelected WHO the power control on earth in case of a pandemy; then after the erasing of doctors freedom WHO proposed the erasing of nation sovereignty ...No freedom for the sake of a false security impression...
Guess who is the big contributor in money to the WHO ? If you dont know you are lost forever... if you dont mind you are more than lost... 😁😊This is not a conspiracy at all this isin the light for all to see... This is only the trend of corporate power lobbys...There is no more any conspiracies, all is in the open...
I am sad but not bored, because each day is more amazing than the last...
Freedom is the only great discovery for the last million years with language, they emerge together through play, and hunting synchronized play by men and children synchronized play by music with women... Perhaps i dont have the right to distinguish the sexes here no more ? 😁😊
Some anthropologist school just demonstrate how language came from more social freedom in first human hunter gatherers society like the pygmies today, by the play instinct and his extension in the symbolic kingdom by the virtue of a matriarchal impulse toward more freedom in the group and a general higher level of trust linked to play and music, guiding all the tribe to a more successful synchronized way to hunt with no stress, the opposite of primate society ...
Interesting hypothesis about language origin....My favorite one...
@twoleftears while I don't agree with the interpretations of the story of Babel, I think the underlying issue is tribalism. The ops post is about tribalism. He would rather people adhere to a tribalist view of a a piece of the world (audio) as opposed to them expressing healthy skepticism. Ultimately I think that is what the Atlantic article is about. Both political sides are expected to accept a tribalistic view to all matters and not question the tribal point of view. The op wants to do the same thing with audio. That's not healthy.
.. and if people are going to adduce scientific support for why a $10k power cable is worth the money, the explanation should very clear, accurate, and unmystical.
The products benefit’s s/b be scientifically confirmable with double-blind testing.
You should not quote scientific theory and yet deny scientific method.
I generally find that people who constantly say there is no difference is not so much that they cannot hear the difference as they don't want to spend any money. Yet they want to believe that there system is better than yours because that makes them feel like big man on campus. That is my opinion. That being said the most expensive system is not necessarily the best system either. On a personal level I think we are all trying to paint a picture and the style of our painting might be different but that doesn't mean that one is wrong and one is right. For example are Picasso s painting good and Monet s not? Or vise versa? Great can be different keep that in mind but paint by Numbers is just that!
There is nothing legally wrong with stating vile, ugly, insulting and dangerous rhetoric. Does that make it acceptable? The law says no when it crosses the threshold into stochastic terrorism.
We cannot decide by LAW the way we must spoke to people...Who will decide? From which community? Education is the key not law...
"Stochastic terrorism " will increase in all society which increase his communautarism division over the citizen status or beside it...When the notion of citizen become less and less meaningful, violence increase in a society...
Each community of any kind has his tabu matters and disctinctions... if all kind of community impose them by law it is chaos...
The only way to decrease "stochastic terrorism" is to increase citizenship education and establishing the laical INDIVIDUAL citizen right over any cultural line of division...
censorship is the opposite ...In canada censorship Trudeau want to include by law even the way we MUST adress to someone... Trudeau is already a robot...
Like said Davis here, we must talk one another like friend and citizen, not as muslim first or black people first or trans sexual first etc
For example it is not acceptable to say some words to someone else, Davis does not ask for a law to solve the problem, he ask for communication and education AS CITIZEN...Nevermind all other distinctions which are secondary...Freedom is for INDIVIDUAL citizen,not for any other groups of any kind, groups are not free and never will be, individual only can be free by definition...
Militant communautarism, gettho-isation, become destructive without this citizenship education OVER it ...
It's really simple. Everyone on this site can post whatever they want. That doesn't mean the Owners of the site will allow it to remain. I have had posts removed for whatever reasons and while it might initially annoy me, it isn't my site.
Depending upon the country where you reside, you might also have the right of free speech. In the US you are absolutely allowed to say whatever you want (except "fire" in a theater), you just have to live the consequences or repercussions of what you said. You might have the right to free speech, but that doesn't mean you won't suffer for it.
For sure you are right...To this date here my problem is more with the members behaviour than with the moderators...Some members insults and act like a mob, want to ban people etc...
this is the problem here....
And some fanatic want to import the way of Tweeter here and increase the control... This is the problem....
But remember that this private site is part of society and i dont want this site to imitate tweeter bannishing citizen Trump and bannishing here arbitrarily...
This argument has been around since the beginning of time. We kind of got it right when it was decided that government has no role in censorship, which is what "free speech" is all about. Everything else is just whining, crying and bitching about what can be said on a private site.
As for cancel culture, that's just the meme of the month and makes for clicks and eyeballs and is one of the stupidest memes ever. If one is really intent on getting out their message, go to nearest public square, stand on your soapbox and let loose.
There is nothing legally wrong with stating vile, ugly, insulting and dangerous rhetoric. Does that make it acceptable? The law says no when it crosses the threshold into stochastic terrorism.
It's really simple. Everyone on this site can post whatever they want. That doesn't mean the Owners of the site will allow it to remain. I have had posts removed for whatever reasons and while it might initially annoy me, it isn't my site.
Depending upon the country where you reside, you might also have the right of free speech. In the US you are absolutely allowed to say whatever you want (except "fire" in a theater), you just have to live the consequences or repercussions of what you said. You might have the right to free speech, but that doesn't mean you won't suffer for it.
And you are conflating a legal definition with a philosophical concept. There is nothing legally wrong with most cancel culture. Does that make it right?
Exactly so...Thanks...
What is legal (private control) is not necesarily legitimate...
And the foundation of democracy is precisely which make possible to separate what is legitimate from what is legal, it is impossible to do this in a "legal" self legitimizing totalitarian system by definition...
When the censorship is universal, the censorship is INTERNALIZED and become an automatic self censorship, and the citizen become robots...It is the matter in Huxley and Orwell prophetical books,,,
Like said Klaus Schwab with the applauds of Harari "you will own nothing and you will be happy"...
Many american citizen hypnotized by this left/right propaganda are now unable to think...They self destruct destroying the world with them....
They accuse others and there exist no mirror on their planet...
«It is way simple, all white sheep hate black sheep»-Groucho Marx🤓
Absolute hogwash. You're intentionally conflating the concept of "free speech" as written in the Constitution with what can be said on a privately owned site. You don't fool anyone (with an IQ above room temperature) with your victim signaling.
And you are conflating a legal definition with a philosophical concept. There is nothing legally wrong with most cancel culture. Does that make it right?
These days, both sides of the aisle are advocating censorship. It’s one thing to get it from one side, but now we’re getting from both sides. This is a disturbing trend, to say the least.
I consider it quite fair that someone, in light of these trends, would be alarmed to see people willingly and eagerly advocating censorship, regardless of the venue and their policies.
It’s one thing for the managers of a venue to implement restrictions on their patrons’ behavior, but it’s another thing to see the venue’s patrons REQUESTING a loss of freedom. It seems self-defeating, masochistic…I dunno…stupid? “I couldn’t help but notice there’s not enough censorship here, Mr. Director, may we please have some more?”
I will challenge this kind of thinking regardless of the venue, because I think it is bad and indicative of an accepted mode of thinking in our population that is more than complicit in the erosion of our freedoms.
Absolute hogwash. You’re intentionally conflating the concept of "free speech" as written in the Constitution with what can be said on a privately owned site. You don’t fool anyone (with an IQ above room temperature) with your victim signaling.
All the best,
Nonoise
Like usual Mr. Always Right Nonoise, insult someone because this someone is out of the "party" line...
Nowadays with internet the distinction inherited from some past civilization like Greece and rome between public real space (agora) and private space (home) is blurred because private and public are no more SEPARATED nor SEPARABLE in the virtual reality...
One of the first consequence of censorship in tyrannical and dictatorial society is the externally imposed and conditioned self censorship related to a lost of confidence or a general defiance among neighbours...
In virtual space everybody is your neighbours, then free speech in tweeter and other media must not be over regulated by an external instances nor completely controlled...Why?
The muting of the ELECTED clown Donald Trump who was president by an UNELECTED corporate power decision is destruction of the souverainety of democracy or his nullification or subordination to arbitrary private corporate power...
The only one who can object to that are the "wanna be leader of the opposition party " or some sleepwalking party member , because it is clear that those who control society are now unelected very powerful few corporates mammoth with few unelected technocrats...( unlected B.I.S. president, WHO. president, Bill Gates etc ) and not only leader of countries...Most country in the world command less power than only one big corporation...Any african country for example is at the mercy of this new imperial power...Gates can decide for example in which african country he will pick his lab rats for a new vaccine... At worst he may have some trouble with India who inherited British law and own a population over a billion... Anyway...
It is the reason why these political left/right division whose debate are now wars insatead of debates in the US had less and less meaning save for gullible people or fanatics...And it is the same power behind these wrestling puppets: money and greed..,.
The Constitution was written at a times where public space were not privately controlled and regulated at the scale where it is now...
The distinction of the private home space of a citizen and the public agora where the public affair where discussed in ancient Greece , this clear distinction did not exist in virtual space ...
Then free speech must be maximized in a civilized manner in virtual space and externally imposed self censorship must me minimized..
If not, the reverse dynamic will go hand in hand with this "marvellous" totalitarian global state where surveillance is "under the skin" of everyone was claimed and applaud to by the like of Yuval Noah Hariri and Klaus Schwab, the unlected Gurus of Trudeau for example and of Macron and many others around the globe...
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