Why pay so much for super high end?

Not necessarily the  more you pay the better sound you get. Combination and compatibility question ( especially amp-speaker) is very important, I can say this from my  experience. The placement of the speakers is also important. Also, what kind of music  and recordings of what quality you hear. The difference in sound between a good and bad recording on the same setting is essentially dominating the difference in money that you may pay, say for a better transport or a better DAC. Set up your mind and taste before taking upgrade decisions. 

cdk84, I got back to you via the message system here. 

cdk84

Clearly  we are not evolving. 

mb1

So hear is a company with a real serious commitment to advancing the technology. So grant funding for the development of a loudspeaker. For 250.000 pounds sterling. Now that is what I am talking about.

"The new grant application was entitled ‘the Bishop project’ and outlined an R&D program to develop a new multirole dynamic drive unit technology that would compliment the enclosure technology developed in the A.C.T. One loudspeaker and allow for the development of a new flagship loudspeaker. The application was submitted to the DTi under the SMART Funding initiative and was successful. Wilson Benesch were awarded £250,000 from Her Majesty’s Government. At the time of writing in 2016, no other British audio manufacturer has successfully applied for and won grant funding from the British Government."

I have a Fisher tube amp and a pair of Bozak 4000B symphony's that will make you shiver and tears come to your eyes listening to them in a room that is as far away from perfect for listening as this forum could imagine.
The fact is most people are not listening to the music, they are listening beyond the music and in most cases are listening to perceived problems rather than actual issue with the  music and the play back of said music.
Total cost 800.00 for the Fisher on eBay and a road trip to the North Carolina mountains to get the Bozak's for a 1000.00 dollars, pickup only and a lot of fun on the way and quite the adventure getting them out of the guys basement and up the mountain to my truck.
I left his place bleeding from falling off the side of home made steps and shoving my hand under the corner of the speaker to save it!
 Well worth the sacrifice, I healed and have a great story about my sweet speakers.

...this thread is acting like the Energizer Bunny. *L*

....it keeps going & going & going....a snowball on a slope.... ;)

davt 

For health reasons perhaps you should move to colorado and smoke something else.

mr_m

Please admit that you had nothing better to do with your saturday. What else would you do, read the news? That might throw you over the brink.

Accurate assessment of the the state of high-end. However great speakers aren't a dime a dozen. 
The mark of a truly great speaker is how it sounds to the ear over the test of time.  Some actually get better to the ear some worse. Still, all subjective.
Patience is the virtue of virtues in high end. Get some ASAP if the high end is your bag and it'll pay off. I did and the only way to enjoy high end. Go figure.
Its a big joke anyway isn't it, just like your trying to say.

There are many brands that are as hood as name brands .such as Viva, peerless
Usher, seas they all have very good models that have great specs,even scan speak, has lesser models that are as good in older models for far less money's.
It I'd how they measure ,then implemented in the Heart if the speaker the Xover
By far the one area to blAmerica. I have learned long ago for example
In the vast majority of Loudspeakers , as well as amplifiers,preamps.
Using Solen capacitors , and in many cases even cheaper Chinese capacitors
And those white sand cast resistors.
I just upgraded what was considered a good speaker in the Salk Budd Fried tribute
Loudspeaker, which could be bought with premium Xover parts.
I went from stock Solen caps to Mundorf supreme  then to VH oimp caps . 
And Path resistors. it total transformed these Loudspeakers, I then put The same VH oimp  caps in the preamp coupling caps ,and output in my Pass F6 amp .
The whole system increase across the board well over 10%. which is a Huge jump
In any Audiophile system for only $1200 in parts labor was maybe 600.
My advise if buying new find out what quality parts are in your loudspeaker before hand, if Average capacitors like Solen , ask for a upgrade,mils or Mundorf hood resistors ,best are Duelund,and Path audio my favorite , and good Copper inductors Sally use Jantzen which are very good. buying used electronics research in Manhattan amps especially Mcintosh use red square Wima caps ok at best 
Many capaciyors such as VH audio, Mundorf , Audyn, Jupiter, Duelund just for 
A small example .buy used electronics have upgraded transform your unit for 
Less then buying new.

fun...fun

So Wilson Benesch spent 250,000 pounds sterling to develop a good driver for their speakers. Sounds like the kind of speaker development that audiophiles would like to see more of. I would think. 

Sounds real audio...scan Speak has been around since 1970 and spends just as much on their research and development. They’re under an umbrella that also owns audio technology (skanning) and dynaudio. Their drivers are used in commercial designs costing several times over $100,000 and get the "I want to mortgage my house for these" type of reviews. Their D3004 tweeter (fabric and especially their berrylium) is usually used when someone wants the best tweeter on earth. Skanning woofers are used in the most expensive Sonus Faber speakers. Many people consider Scan Speak’s 4.5" midrange as the best on earth. In a few years once I feel comfortable to drop about $12,500 on speakers I’m building an 11 speaker atmos setup with DBX Venu loudspeaker management components (digital crossover, equalization, etc all in one device) which far exceeds even the best most expensive passive crossover technology in fideltiy by a lot and costs a fraction the price. I will laugh and get off from the fact that people pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for performance less than that I’ll have. I’d build the subwoofer too but SVS actually did something very special with the PB16 ultra at a reasonable price. Dual of them makes Wilson Thor’s Hammer and subwoofers of the likes seem like ginger beer for 90% less. I’ll just have to pay an expert to setup the DBXs and make me some designs for cabinets. Far far easier than designing a crossover. Far easier. Worth it!


I forgot to mention that in the title...designing a fantastic cabinet isn’t all that complex. You could pay one of the few DIY experts that are on the Internet such as HTGUIDE some money to design cabinets for you and then just use an active crossover. That’s one of the advantages about DIY is using loudspeaker management devices like DBX Venu 360s. No passive crossover on earth can touch them and having an expert set them up in an afternoon and it’s easy peasy japanesey. You’d have complete  control over your loudspealer with 31 band or parametric equalizers and crossovers and set delays...basically a true flat response way better than passive and without the passive components degrading the sound quality which they do not matter how good they are. Build speakers not only comparable to 6 figure speakers but better and it's not....that.....hard.  But by all means sheep waste your money on  $20,000 or $50,000 speakers and feel super cool instead of having something better for a few thousand dollars that requires a few hours of fun work.

Well that does sound like a blast...Can I come and listen when you have it set up. I would love it.  There is so little fun in Hi Fi any more. Expectations keep getting higher. 

Surround sound for movies is just fine as in the real world sound comes from all directions. On a concert however I've never sat in the middle of the band while they played I'm always out in the audience  with the band in front of me. Simple is as simple does. Also for the ones that can't see the big money some spend on audio. Simple again..... same reason a dog likes his .... CAUSE HE CAN!

Why not choose the mini one under budget and has a lot of bass? 

This Bluetooth speaker uses high quality drivers to produce stereo sound and has a passive radiator to increase bass response. It's a small unit packed with big sound. Just hold the speaker while it is playing music and you can feel the power emanating from it. Yes, it has a slot for an iPhone on it, but even if you never put a smartphone on that slot, you will still love the sound of this speaker. It can get very loud without distorting. And like I said, it has a lot of bass.

https://www.amazon.com/Selectec-Bluetooth-Microphone-Blackberry-Smartphone/dp/B017BEV7PY

I'm sure its a fine speaker with excellent bass response. But please $26. No, no, no that wouldn't do for pretentious audiophiles. Don't you know they equate mega bucks with mega sound??? Come on you know better than that.

There is a special iPhone anti-vibration mount on sale now for $3,200 that will make that $26 speaker sound a LOT BETTER!

People spend money on what makes them feel good. Period.  Cars, wine, watches, houses, Hermes bags etc.  Judging others negatively for something you don't find value  or believe in says something about yourself. This holds true for more than material goods.

Making an even decent speaker is well beyond the realm of the average man or woman. Believing this feat is possible gives humans too much credit and is delusional. It also makes light of and shows ignorance to the tremendous research and development that is required to produce  a product that engages and makes one covet a special piece. That is why all speaker do not sound the same. As far as I am concerned, if the gear is used well and often,  providing many thousands of hours of sonic bliss, the prices can be considered a bargain (I can't believe I am saying this). After all, the market is always right. The levels of performance, beauty, rarity , and yes cost required to give the purchased product an acceptable level of "feel good" and incremental performance increase sought  varies depending on the means and psychology of the purchaser. 

So build your own speakers and pretend there great dude!!

Way you stressing out how others throw their money around??
If your happy with your Wal-Mart speakers than power to you.

+1 996cupracer

reference999                                         02-17-2017 1:25pm  
44 posts

Reviewers always say the high-priced speakers sound so much better because they are paid to push them .

If your purchasing decision is solely based on reviews, then you got no one to blame if it doesn't meet your expectations. How about go and listen and let your ear decide?

some people spend less money on what makes them feel good than others -- they take advantage of reductions in market value caused by low perceptions by most buyers

examples include mispricing of stocks and the Porsche 996 

Randy, you are right about the 996!

Right On! dave_b

The point is there should be no 6 figure home audio or even 5.

There is no other industry with mark ups like this. The only thing even similar without extensive research and development costs and big mark ups is matresses but home audio makes their mark ups laughable. Some things do have a good amount of Research and development that costs hundreds of millions annualy and do get margins to make up for that like computer processors and graphic processors and projectors and other tech industry stuff but these "high end" home theater and audio companies produces the highest margins of cost to produce that I’m aware of on planet earth on the retail market and on top of that their research and development costs are minimal.
Even scan speak and seas and accuton take huge huge margins on their drivers which is amusing and they’re the big 3 suppliers on the market.
The kharma Enigma Veyron EV1 at $1.5 million which I haven’t confirmed but I think is still using accuton diamond tweeters and midrange? $1.5 million? If it were considered art I’d say ok but it isn’t art sold at Sotheby’s.
No speaker on earth should ever cost more than $4,000 no 7 channel amp more than $4,000 or speaker cable more than $100 for a 10 foot pair.


Hopefully one of these days a factory direct speaker company comes out that uses all scan speak illuminstor or seas high end and does what these 7 figure speakers do but not price rape you.

funaudiofun OP11 posts

The point is there should be no 6 figure home audio or even 5.

There is no other industry with mark ups like this.

Sorry, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Jewelry, fine dining, travel, clothing ... all have can have markups that equal or exceed that of high end audio. I don't think those things necessarily offer good value, but neither do I insist that no man should spend more than $199 on a suit.

BTW, I could see 5 figures for an entire stereo system being a reasonable markup - that's $10k.  Not 6 figures.

yes, there ar other consumer products with outrageous markups - but most of them are known for the sort of exploitation identified by Thorstein Veblin

audio is supposed to be about sound quality

I’m just going to guess to everyone in here is GOP first you guys don’t believe in climate change and now you’re suckers for an insane incorrect hobby. I just know this is a GOP hang out I can tell.

I'm just guessing you are a troll. Please delete your account and go bother people on another site. Thanks.

^^^+1

Please return to your safe place and stay there.

Can I come out yet?  No jokes please...I'm married.

the point regarding alternative facts is a good one

better put my hip-waders on....it's really getting deep in here now. ;^)

"Stripes" represents humanity distilled down to it's essence!  That one is for jmcgrogan2:)

I dispute the notion that only right-wingers can fall prey to "insane incorrect hobby"

Music, and it's reproduction, are one of the unique creations of humanity.  It soothes, it excites and it provokes thought!  Music expresses our emotions and deepest desires.  Music entertains, enhances, complements and conjures up moods and atmospheres otherwise unnoticed.  Music is the language of our souls!  Insane?  Incorrect?  Hobby?  Really?  It is a most noble endeavor that speaks to the very core of what it means to be human.  Music and any pursuit to re-create it is consequential....music is our souls water!  Without it we are not truly alive.

Why pay so much for super high end?

Well simply.......because.

Another thought; You don't see Rolls Royce's and VW's sold out of the same showroom. Yet everything in audio is lumped together. A bit strange. My concern isn't the megabuck speakers but rather the $20,000 speaker becoming the norm. Oh well, my house can't hold anymore anyway! Joe

jmcgrogan25,689 posts02-22-2017 6:58ambetter put my hip-waders on....it’s really getting deep in here now. ;^)

Why isn’t Audiolatrine posting in this thread? Could it be that....he doesn’t have a super high end system? Just a super case of schizophrenia?!

Most people are sold a dream--fooled by the fancy brochures and advertisements, and dealers who have LITTLE experience with other brands they don't offer. 

Then they have to face the reality of being RIPPED off.  The only way to learn is get out there and listen for yourself.....don't go for brand names unless you have the dough.
Enjoy

IF- there were a variety of high-end audio stores in your area, you could do a lot of auditioning- and then find a system that meets or exceeds the performance of certain super-expensive components for a good deal less. At least for your ears and tastes.  Since that is not an option for those living outside of NYC, Chicago, LA, etc. the next option is to attend audio shows, the CES, etc. The 3rd option is to find someone in the neighborhood that will let you listen to their rig.  If however all you have is 10,000 opinions about speaker cables on the internet, it really makes it hard to figure out what when where why and how. 
All i can say is i used to own B&W 801's and loved them--- until i heard a pair of Eggleston Andra's. which retailed for 3X as much.  I was able to get a demo pair of Eggs and was very happy i had saved up for them.
So... it took a lot of time and the ability to save up for something much better.  BUT- I have no desire to build a pair of Andra's myself, thank you.