I owned Maggie 3.5Rs and tried all kinds of things, silver jumpers, W4S 4 channel amp, the ran 2 chanels with the W4S and two with Parasound A23, I also tried active XOs. Nothing floated my boat, so I replaced them with Emerald Physics KCIIs and dual SVS powered subs. Better, but the subs were not developed for hi-end 2 channel: I could never blend them properly. Eventually, I replaced them with EP 3.4s and recently sold the subs (long overdue) which opened up the 3.4s, which are powered with a LSA GaN 350 (fabulous amp) and just picked up a Audiolab CDT 6000. These 2 components so transformed what I'm hearing, I can't help but wonder what they would do for Maggie owners
Why I sold my Magnepan .7's
It's a bummer but I spent about a year with them and maybe this may or may not help you if you are considering them yourself. I also use a set of open baffle Caintuck Betsy's as well as a set of Heresy II's. Over the course of time, I felt myself only enjoying hifidelity types of recordings with them. I realize this is often the kind of music others demo at trade shows, but this isn't the kind of music I listen to generally. I mostly listen to jazz quartets and classical and with regard to jazz in particular, I felt that the .7's did not produce enough of a focused sound.
For example, the soundstage was huge and that was great. It was a wall of sound. The issue though is they sounded as if all the instruments were coming at you together at once from everywhere rather than a group of individual instruments in locations which provides more of a sense of three dimensionality. It's hard to put in words but they didn't sound as focused like you get with individual drivers. It was like there was no depth or texture in the sound compared to individual drivers. It just all comes at you at once in two dimensions.
Another issue I had was the power requirements. I just can not stand solid state if I can help it. I much rather prefer tubes and tubes will eventually clip compared to solid state with the Maggies if you turn them up too high. So, to really get them going, my friend drove them with a Parasound A23 Halo, coupled to one of my tube preamps. I was amazed at how loud they got, but with jazz, that articulate separation just wasn't there like the other speakers and so they didn't engage me in the same manner as either of the other two sets of speakers. The other issue was placement. At first, I really didn't believe it was an issue as much as others stated, but I was wrong. It's true that they play and breathe so much better away from walls and I just didn't have the space to give them more than what they needed overall. In the end, it all added up to a decision to let them go.
Another thing I find rather ironic. The Bose 901 has received so much dislike from the hifi community because the sound reflects off the rear walls. I don't know why others don't mention this, but Magnepans appear to shoot an equal amount of sound from the rear as well. Sometimes I would stand behind them and ask myself if the panels were backwards but they were the right way. I think the music just goes everywhere with ribbons and maybe that too is part of the reason to get them away from the walls.
I have played the .7's far from the walls but the sound still doesn't appear more focused and still just comes at you all at once, mixed everywhere. When I originally bought them, I had a chance to hear the .7's next to a pair of $25,000 Sonus Faber reference speakers. I told the salesman at Shelly's Stereo in Woodland Hills CA that I'm still buying the .7's so don't worry. I'm just curious how different they sound. When I heard the Faber's I just dropped my jaw in disbelief at how amazing they sounded. Every detail in the music was focused, seperated, three dimensional and articulate. It was absolutely insane and I told the salesman to turn it off before I end up mortgaging my house.
Regardless, in my opinion one of the hottest speakers to come to the light are open baffle speakers. With Jazz, it just doesn't get any better. They are extremely efficient so you can drive them with just about any flea watt tube, easy to place, well focused, articulate, open, inexpensive and then some. Right now I'm building a set of LII Audio 8 and 15 full drivers in a wood sapele baffle and they are to die for. Anyway, I hope this helps anyone considering Maggie's. They are great speakers, depending on the music genre you prefer, but IMO, jazz isn't quite up to snuff.
44 responses Add your response
rankaudio, there is only so much that can be done to focus a panel speaker. It will always retain the characteristic splayed soundstage and center image. It will not replicate the wave launch of a dynamic speaker. You can get some more focusing of the center image with toe in and placement, but if you crave the solidity and locational queues of a dynamic speaker, a panel speaker is the wrong genre for you. Very likely there would be no remedy for the .7 that would provide you a focused enough center image. If it’s all about that solidity and tightness of the center image for you, then seek a full range speaker or one with a concentric driver. You will hear the central part of the performance as never before. |
I own the Magnepan.7's and for money spent I'm very satisfied with their performance, and yes they require some effort to get the best out of them It took me some time to find the best location for the .7's to sound their best in my room I'm taking plus or minus 1/8" of an inch I was driving them with my VAC PA 100 100 tube amp amp and ARC LS15 tube pre amp They sounded excellent But as you know Maggie's love power!! So l decided to try them with my Spectron musical MK ll D class amp with 500watts@8ohm 650@4ohms and 1,200 watts@1ohm and 65 amps for 500 milliseconds To hear the results you can find my YouTube vid Magnepan. 7's & audio system I think you may be surprised with the soundstage, inner detail and dynamics! At the time of this vid l had only one SVS Ultra 13 sub woofer Now l have added a second sub and upgraded the plates amps on both Watch "Magnepan .7's & audio system" on YouTube |
" taken way out of context, especially by tablejockey." rankaudio- my comment is based on your experience "-Magnepans appear to shoot an equal amount of sound from the rear as well." The rear of the room/placement needs to be addressed. You didn't do your homework to learn that is a characteristic of the design before buying. The mention of subs is to just bring to light what subs offer when using them. Happy listening. |
jrosemd98 posts
I'm a trained jazz saxophone player. I have roughly 500 jazz LPS and 1000 jazz CDs, including SACDs I'm on my third pair of Maggies, having previously owned Advents, AR's and B&Ws. I have not had any of the problems with Maggies of which you complain.
So that would mean you are not on the receiving end of the horn in which case the horn would not sound as faithful. All the more reason why you would like a Maggie, yes? It wouldn’t sound the same from your position while playing it live. It’s like a person that hears themselves on a recording for the first time. They always think they sound strange or different. The sound of a horn through a .7 doesn’t sound coherent. This is why I complaint about the Klipsch Forte compared to the Klipsch Heresy. Voices and horns sound balanced while with the .7 or Forte, they sound spread out and diffused. Less coherent. If a person likes or dislikes a speaker, they should ask themselves specifically what it is.
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OP, I have a pair of Acousat Model X’s, that are tube powered and by their design can get loud as heck, but will never give you chest thumping bass. Acoustics, placement and the room are very very important. An example, A couple of houses ago I tried setting them up in my living room. There was a double closet with sliding doors behind my listening position and if you opened the doors so they were both open, more sound came out of the closet than the speakers. I moved them to another wall and all was perfect! All the best. JD |
I have owned 3.6 Maggies for 15 years and in that time they have lived in 4 different rooms in 3 homes. The keys I have found to unlocking their huge potential are threefold. The first is have enough power and a little extra. Mine opened up when I upgraded to monoblock amps. The second is having difusers behind them. Artificial ficus plants did wonders for me. The last is actually free, carefully place them taking measurements of their placing. Then listen to them and make changes accordingly. Also experiment with tweeters in and out. The room will dictate your needs. I found the sweet spot every time I moved them, but always slightly different placing. Now when listening to Eva Cassidy, it is like she is in the room singing and other My other reference calibration is Take Five by Brubeck. Th drums and bass always tell me if things are working properly. Good luck in your journey |
"I find it very difficult to believe" A set of cables can typically influence a system as much as a component change. It is fairly easy to have a system get cleaned up in terms of resolution by switching out a brand of cables. There are striking differences in resolution between various sets of cables, not to mention tonality variations. I switch out sets of cables regularly, so I have much experience in the matter. Try it sometime. You'll see, er... hear. You will hear it and still find it difficult to believe! Rehearse saying, "I never thought cables could make that much difference!" Then you are on your way to becoming an audiophile! Make sure you build your speakers with capacity to change the internal wiring. You will thank me. :)
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Maggies are awesome if you have them set up right. The LRS and 1.7i are where its at on the lower end of Maggies. My LRS’s on custom stands which elevate the panels 15” off the ground and position them vertically. I changed out the fuses to SR Blue’s. Im using a Kinki EX-M1 to power them. My room is treated and I am using a Velodyne HGS-10. The image they produce is large but I prefer that. The tight, pinpoint, focused imaging doesn’t have realistic scale to me. Everything sounds miniature. Maggies do piano and instruments like very other speakers can. There speed, openess and clarity are awesome. They reveal texture in bass lines and vocals unlike any box speaker I’ve owned. MBL are my all time favorite followed by Alsyvoxx. Its not surprising that I love Maggies. on an interesting sidenote, the congested sound the op is experiencing was really solved for me years ago when I switched to Analysis Plus Solo Crystal Oval 8 speaker cables. These cables really unravel to music so that you can much easier hear each individual instrument, their timing and how each instrument fits together with the other instruments to make music. |
secretguy430 posts
I have to wonder if the OP has ever experienced live music.
this is too broad a question. Live performances can sound horrible or sound amazing. Yes, but Magnepan’s do not reproduce music that sounds as live or realistic as the Heresy II or open baffles for that matter. I assume there’s a point to that question. If I’m listening to a jazz trio, I get a more organic or realistic impression with the Heresy or open baffle. Hifi music doesn’t have a live sound. It’s processed carefully in a studio to sound ultra refined and perfect whatever that means. If the coherency of a trumpet doesn’t sound coherent as is the case with the .7’s, then it becomes less engaging, less faithful or realistic.
Yes, ultra hifi music like kick drums can sound real but I listen to life like jazz trios and quartets. Not all these recordings sound like ultra hi-fidelity. I think the .7’s just aren’t the right speaker with regard to jazz.
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I know this is directed to the OP, but I have experienced a lot of live music and Magnepan speakers didn’t work for me. It’s just a personal preference. I do own a pair of Martin Logans and they sound much cleaner to my ears than the Magenpans ever did. |
Any speaker that requires a **proper** placement in order to enhance performance is
~~Flawed~~ <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The thing you can read on AG. Most tube amps sound the same. FR speakers? Full Range Speakers or in this case Friggin’ Ridiculous. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Back to Magnepan Big Rooms and Big panels and big amps and big other things. 5 speakers I’ve heard and owned 2. 57s (I owned in the 80s) I need 20 acres and a 20,000 sf warehouse.. Maybe a decommissioned aircraft carrier.
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"...Oh come on I dont subscribe to this placement thing Nor faulting electronics. My FR can be placed anywhere in the room and sound super,, stick it in a card board box, above 200hz the speaker would sound fantastic..." You are not a Magnepan customer evidently. A half inch difference in placement can make a huge difference, same thing for electronics, they expose the weak products like few speakers can. |
I would be looking at your placement or upstream electronics as the culprit. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Oh come on I dont subscribe to this placement thing Nor faulting electronics. My FR can be placed anywhere in the room and sound super,, stick it in a card board box, above 200hz the speaker would sound fantastic.
I dont believe in cabinet nor placement. A speaker has to stand on its on. CARD BOARD BOX I said |
mijostyn I appreciate the feedback. The .7's are with a relative who loves them. I'll take your advice and barrow them back. I actually love Maggie's with other music genres more than any of my speakers. thank you |
@rankaudio , the problem is not the speakers. It was how they are being used. Personally, I do not like them either. The first Maggie I would consider would be the 3.7i. You have to use sound absorption behind the speaker. If done correctly imaging should be superior, more life like than any speaker made up of dynamic drivers open baffle or otherwise. They still require power. No getting away from that. Also forget about bass below 40 Hz. That is where subwoofers come in, another bag or worms. |
What I was mentioning basically is the coherency for example tends to be more spread out rather than focused or pinpoint. Rather, it's kind of spread out wide. Also I've experimented with the tweeters in vs out. I always found them positioned in as better rather than out, particularly in corners where the bass should be closer to the walls and the tweeters closer to the listener. |
Guys, Thank you for the feedback but I think my comments are being taken way out of context, especially by tablejockey. That's a common issue I encounter with responses. Where in my post did I even remotely once bring up any concerns about bass? I never complained about any such thing. Even so, you can see in several of my videos, I have two REL T5i's and it doesn't get any better or faster than those as far as I've been testing. And I've tested quite a few subs. Also, I explained that I've put the .7's in a well spaced room with the same results. See my video here. If anyone skips to exactly 4:45 of Steve Guttenberg's video below, they will see that he too explains that Maggie's are not as focused as conventional driver box speakers and are more diffuse in their panel presentation which coincides with what I was complaining about.
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Dipole monitors on the same baffle are impossible. I like Maggies too. Always have, just like I like Infinity IRS Betas. One of the nicest speaker systems I ever messed with for the money. But for stereo reproduction and being accurate.. I say they have some really nice sound effect.. Do all the math you want.. You can only get it so accurate and it can change from recording to recording. That is what I didn't like. A fickled sort for sure.. The old songs recorded with reverb were kinda' magical with that type of speaker system. Nothing quit like that.. Regard |
Here is a link to a calculator that gives a good starting point for placement of Dipoles in a room. Hint...it is not an equilateral triangle. http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_calculators.php It took days to get my 1.7 adjusted right and yes I'm a geek using a laser measure as well. But when I did....omg. Also getting a little diffusion behind the panels...in my room the fake ficus trees did the trick. As far as your friends system, the preamp and the tubes inside the preamp can change things dramatically. Focus is not something I lack, if anything, the sweet spot with maggies can be a bit tight. |
I'm a Maggie man and couldn't disagree more with your assessment. I listen to all types of music and with jazz as with other types the articulation, presentation, separation and realism of instruments is outstanding. I lived with 901:s for a while and what you describe is more like their sound where everything is mixed together. The difference between to two is day and night. I would be looking at your placement or upstream electronics as the culprit.
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Nothing wrong with not liking the speakers in your room. In the right room with enough space to the back wall, these speakers are stunning. Finding the right speaker for your situation is what it's all about, that's why when people say "my speaker is the best" it makes zero sense and doesn't help anyone. Find what's best for you and your room. |
I'll leave this here for people interested in the Magnepan .7. Placement is critical as we all know. I was a confirmed tweeter on the inside guy but with my change in hearing and the .7s, they seemed better dispersed with the tweeters on the outside. I also have had no luck with tube amps on these panels (or MMGs). I'm sure there are tube amps that could drive them, I just don't have one that will. Solid state amps seem to do the best job with power and a crisper top end. Maggies will make you explore every part of your system and they cannot be compromised. I sure Magnepan sells more amps than any other product. They are a tough Mistress. |
'Looks like you didn't do your homework. "I don't know why others don't mention this, but Magnepans appear to shoot an equal amount of sound from the rear as well. Sometimes I would stand behind them and ask myself if the panels were backwards but they were the right way. I think the music just goes everywhere with ribbons and maybe that too is part of the reason to get them away from the walls." Your room and positioning were the culprit. Jazz and acoustic music are surreal in a proper setup. With subs, bass heavy genres are taken care of. I use some lower end ML's(Theos) and hear mids/highs comparable to pricier boxes. Subjective of course. I am a fan of the Sonus Faber presentation. If I had my way- a pair of Stradavari Homage please
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