Why Don't More People Love Audio?

Sonic excellence? Maybe; but not precise enough a term for me to understand what's in YOUR mind whan you say it. That's why I used words like "sonic stimulation" and/or "illusion of realism" etc.

More would love audio if they could be convinced to give it a go. But, people have their priorities, and the art of music reproduction doesn't occur to many as worthwhile.

I wonder about it too...especially considering the fact that pretty much majority of the people listen to music, have favourite bands and songs and so on...It cannot be money issue, I see too many 40K trucks and SUV's and big houses with few spare bedrooms to think that it's a money issue. I honestly think that 99.9% have never heard a nice "high end" audio set up so of course it the idea of building a nice system wouldn't even cross their mind. People want want they see ( quote from Silence of the Lambs?) and they see expensive cars, homes, clothes, jewelery, whatever so that's what they're after...

Branislav, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're saying is that high-end audio systems can never be a status symbol like the other items you mention, primarily due to lack of exposure -- you can't wear it, drive it, etc? In which case I would agree -- to a large extent. But I don't think that's the whole story.

Over the past 40 years, I have (and before that, my father) shared my system(s) with probably a 1000 people (I'm guessing,) I know they were all very impressed -- obviously excited and stimulated, foremost by the realism, and yet only a fraction, I bet 5% or less, were actually moved to put together a system, even a small one. Most of them had the means and the space. Some of that changed when CD's came along; maybe because of the (perceived) convenience? I'm not sure.

I think it may simply be that only a small percentage of people actually receive enough pleasure and stimulation from a (pretty credible) illusion of live performance, right in their home, to own even a modest audio system. And let's remember that for centuries, "music in the home" was a privilege (and a status symbol) only a few could enjoy! So I've always found it ironic that once "performance level" reproduced audio was widely available -- certainly by the beginning of the 60's, a period rich with status symbols -- that more people didn't acquire home audio systems. It certainly wasn't for lack of exposure ;--)
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high end audio is an example of conspicuous consumption. i have heard of individuals who assemble expensive components to impress their contemporaries, without actually listening to them.

such a "group" is probably very small, in comparison to those who listen to music.

however, if many people view audio not as a vehicle for the enjoyment of music but as an indication that they possess material wealth it would serve as another explanation as to why the hobby is not popoular.

high end audio is an example of conspicuous consumption. i have heard of individuals who assemble expensive components to impress their contemporaries, without actually listening to them. such a "group" is probably very small, in comparison to those who listen to music.

Are you saying that even the (larger) group "who listen to music" own their system for its status value?

Maybe that's not what you meant? As I said earlier, in my view a home audio system is a lousy choice for a status symbol. I mean, who's going to see/hear it except that relatively small group of people who will be invited into your home. . . . . . . so I don't think many people would own them for that purpose.

And for those who covet audio equipment as "bling", well I think it serves their own ego-gratification rather than a need to impress others . . . . . which I think can be a healthy thing if not taken to rediculous extremes (and we've all seen examples of that!)

I think it is because most people do not really LISTEN to music. It is merely a back drop to them.

I like to drive, but I do not love to drive. Hence there is no Porsche in my driveway.

We audiophiles need to own up to the fact that we are a cult. As true believers, we cannot conceive that others fail to understand the redemptive nature of the object of our obsession. Too bad for us.

For most people, a sound system is just another appliance. They want to plug and play. They want to forget about it and to simply exploit what it can do for them. They do not obsess about the vintage, the specs or the pedigree. They upgrade when, and if, it breaks, or when they become convinced of its obsolescence (cassette deck to C.D.)

The rest of this palaver simply betrays our cluelessness.

An increasingly small % of people have all the pre-requisites to love audio (as opposed to just loving music).

The pre-requisite that is the most increasingly restrictive is perhaps the desire to spend a lot of time just listening to music. Time is increasingly short these days for many in that more things than ever compete these days for peoples leisure time.

Here's an idea; and you don't have to listen to fish ;--)http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/garden/19aqua.html?src=me&ref=homepage
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let me clarify my position regarding audio equipment as a status symbol.

i think that some buy them to "keep up with the jones'"--their fellow wealthy friends and acquantainces.

many do not listen to their audio systems and have no interest in listening to them.

rather the equipment represents a sizable expenditure comparable to the expenditure of others who may buy boats , expensive cars, or , art.

such individuals are not audiophiles and music may not be of interest to them as well.

I certainly have known audiophiles who were into impressing people with their equipment and its makers. One such physician lived down the street. He and his wife dropped in one day. After listening she said, "Honey, this sounds like music." He said nothing and they left.

Later a package of mine was wrongly delivered to his address. I went down to get it. He invited me in to SEE his system. I did and took my package home without one peep of music being played.

On the other hand, I just heard a fairly expensive system in a million dollar room. All I can say is that it is the best reproduced music I have ever heard. The speakers were a known brand, but little else is widely known.

I really don't know what the issue is here. The original post asks why many want the best of everything save audio gear, but it has evolved to why anyone would want expensive and poor sounding gear.

I think the answer to the original question is the competition of other "things," such as golf clubs, cars, private schools and colleges, face lifts, etc., and computer games and other amusements.

I think one problem is that so many people just don't know how good music really can sound. Most people probably have never even heard a system set up to image properly.

Mark

Mhedges... I totally agree with your answer. My sister-in-law who can well afford a nice system has nothing. The last time she was in town she talked about a concert she attended and how much she enjoyed the artist's work. I mentioned I like his older work and put in a CD of one of my favorites. Prior to this she had never heard my system because whenever she’d come to town, my wife and her would shop shop shop 24/7. I hit the play button and her face went blank and didn’t change till the song was over at which point she said I think I’m going to cry.

I think some have touched on one good reason or another, but what it comes down to is they just "don't care". It needs to float your boat. With that said, why would one spend money on a high end system?

I was born in 1953. This was an era when(I believe) music was spreading out into wonderfull new directions. My parents were fond of music and had many slate 75 albums. They covered artists such as Elvis, Carl Perkins,Beach Boys
Ventures,Doris Day, Frank Sinatra,Dean Martin,and Motown artists of all kinds.From the time I was a baby I was exposed to music.It did not take much time until I was buying 45s of music that made me happy.By 7th grade I was a lost soul for music. I carried around a 45 record case (plastic) with a sporting handle. A dashing BSR plastic turn table with detachable speakers that could spread out to at least 3 feet apart!I watched the Beatles get discoverd, the Rolling Stones come into fame.Jim Morrison make Ed Sullivin furious when he sang (Girl we couldn't get much higher)after agreeing not to. The Who,Elton John,Doobie Brothers,Moody Blues,Hendrix,Janis Joplin,Three Dog Night,Pink Floyd,it goes on and on. This was a special time in history! I sang in choir and ensemble and loved it. My equiptment was run of the mill at best. Before my basketball games I would get pumped up by listening to Funk 49 .The means to play the song was a General Electric cassete player with head phones. I was in perfect bliss listening to music on the lousiest of mediums. Then one day when I was shooting baskets at home and in the summer of my senior year, my neighbor that was a fireman called me over to his fence. He said to me I have noticed that you like mucic and thought that you might like this. There it was this heavy amp that had glass bottles inside.I thanked him not knowing what was about to take place. That evening I hooked up that amp, a Scott tube amp I might add and plugged in my headphones and put on an album by a band called Grand Funk Railroad. It was an album that was gold in color and the title was, "Were an American Band". Now let me tell you the goose bumps I got from hearing an album that I new inside and out, was intense. How in the world could such a feeling be possible. Dude I about cried. That man changed my life! I often wondered if he had not given me the amp if I would have discovered the level of joy I have in listening today. My tastes have expanded and my system is sick. All I can say if you know a person or persons that have a passion for music it is of little sacrifice to expose them to an experience that may change their life. Some are moved and some are not. I had a neighbor that would invite me to his and his wifes house for parties and they would have a boom box playing XM radio. Any time I visited the XM was playing. I made a comment that if they liked music so much they may want to get a better sound system. The wifey said that was all she needed and that the music was all that mattered. Later that summer I invited them over for dinner. After good food and wine I suggested that they might want to hear some music. Upon entering the dedicated sound room they were like children in Macy's toy department. Eyes wide and heads pivoting back and forth they were excited. I played an album by Dire Staits. Just so happens that the choice of music was the husbands favorite album. The look on both of their faces was of utter bewilderment. Six hours later I had to put an end to the session as I was very tired. Upon leaving the wife asked if there was any way possible I would go with them to purchase a system of cost of around $2000 and I said I would be glad to.They how have a system that brings them great pleasure. Rock on audiophiles!

Why this point is so elusive to so many of you I cannot imagine but because I am patient and caring and a credit to my race, I will try once again to move this point close enough for y'all to grasp.

I don't personally care about hang-gliding, canasta, rodeo or bowling. Golf does not matter to me. many of the things that obsessive proponents adore and recommend reside well beyond the circle of my interests.

MANY PEOPLE FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT AUDIO. They just don't friggin care. It is not because they haven't yet heard your system. It is not because they are still on the near side of the great awakening. It is because the things that matter to a crazy few generally do not appeal to the greater population.

Let it go. It just means more for you. Sit back and gloat. The masses will be fine without indoctrination. They don't need you to "save" them.

Macro, as rational as your explanation sounds, it can never fully explain the situation. Funds and physical accomodations can be limiting factors for a period of time. So just because someone doesn't own a nice system doesn't mean they don't care. I think ALL people are fasciniated and excited by great audio (is it not a major selling point for movies?)

The difference is, that for a small minority of us, that fascination somehow "takes hold" and we want to have that kind of wonderful sound in our personal environment. I don't need to validate my interests by foisting them on others, or gloat that "those peons just don't know what they're missing". But I always have a minute to share my system with people who have no clue about high-end audio, and if they are fascinated like I was/am, they don't need me to push them into it. "Audio" creats addicts on the first snort -- or never!

Different strokes for different folks.

There is a theory going around that real audiophiles do not like remotes. Maybe most people like remotes better than good sound?

Good sound? Can you understand that you are referencing an opinion?
Good sound is a matter of opinion. Most people are quite happy with what they have.
I drive a Prius. I love it. To car people, it is a hideous, pretentious waste of plastic. They think cars have to provide an erotic experience. To me, they are just transportation and, as such, should cost me very little money, or none at all.
If you could get outside of your cripplingly narrow perspective, you would realize how nerdy and obsessive you sound. There is no good sound. If you like it, if it sounds good to you, that's all that matters. Reviews don't count, peers don't exist and prices, specifications and model numbers are not important unless misfortune dictates that you shop for a replacement.

Surely, you are aware that speaker placement for most people is dictated by decorating preferences or available space. Sonics are usually not a consideration.

Whoops, i forgot to sign the post as my sarcastic alter ego "MADman", not mapman.

I drive a 96 4runner.

Why can't we all just get along ? Perhaps more would love audio if it were more affordable ? Who is going to take this seriously if they find out that a set of speakers or a component can cost more than a house ? Get NAD and Cambridge and B&W and KEF into the big box stores, and there will be more audiophiles. If they hear it , -----.

In my experience, the majority of buyers in big box stores could be described as not particularly discriminating. They buy brand name or price, not performance.

You guys have to get beyond your narrow-minded insistence that sound matters to anybody but you. It does not. The general public has a quantitative mindset that does not take matters of quality by assessment into consideration. In seeking quality they are guided by brand names and ad campaigns. They buy what they hope will send the message that they are cool. This may sound very familiar to some of you.

The problem may be that the Title of this thread, and its Description do not agree. . . . .

Lots of times friends will come over and bring (usually) a CD because "I wanted to hear this on your system", so they are maybe more discriminating than we assume. They just don't "Love Audio" enough of the time to "Love Owning an Audio System" ;--))
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It's not worth the effort. Make it simpler, with good sound, and they will come.
For example, are there any good one-box systems that can compete with separates, AND at reasonable cost? No. Instead your stuck with a cajillion wires, power cords, boxes. Is it worth the bother? For most people, the answer will be no.

macrojack -- Then there is Bose which populates big box stores and drives on the road it has paved with it's carefully managed reputation.

I object to the notion that it's too time consuming/requires too much work, particularly when it comes to the wealthy. To me, that's when it becomes easy. Walk into a well-known hi-fi shop, listen to their top setups, pick the one you like best, have them deliver and set it up. Working within a budget is the hard part.

I also disagree with the idea that most people's ears are "untrained", and find it a little arrogant to be frank. From the moment I first walked into a hi-fi shop and listened to that first note, I was floored. Why else would anyone of us have gotten into this hobby in the first place?

Personally, I think it's just lack of knowledge of its existence and financial priorities for most people. An iPod is a luxury audio purchase for many. How many are willing to spend double that amount for 36" of cable?

I think the vast majority of people don't enjoy music. Before retirement, I worked for Northern California's utility company servicing gas appliances. In 30 plus years of going into homes, I noticed that very few people have any type of audio equipment. If they did, it was an old record player, in a corner, collecting dust. It is as they they got older, their interest in music waned. I've seen many records packed away, the owners seemingly not caring to play them. More people have modest HT systems than 2 channel equipment. In my visits to approximate. 30 to 40 thousand homes, I've seen probably 10-12 high end systems. So here in San Francisco, the number of people with any type of music system is extremly low. Younger people enjoy music but they seem to get by with iPods and those little earbud things. Also, the few music lovers that are out there do not realize that a good system can be put together with relatively few $'s.

i use to spend my time describing good equipment to people and they would always ask "what about bose?". and when i told them about bose the never asked "what about kef, b and w, celestion, dahlquist?. what about magneplanar?" and to go from a pioneer reciever to a yamaha was a real leap. people love music but they hate to look like they don,t know what they are talking about so they stick with name brands they recognize. by the way,, just where does a person find a high end storefront in most of america? presently you could drive all day around st louis and find 5 or 6 of the brands people on audiogon are fans of. and to listen to any combinations is impossible. vexing for a knowledgeable person much less a newcomer. no wonder great audio gear is a very small part of the home electronics industry. and how many salesman are capable of selling it??

Throwing money at high end audio (or most things for that matter) does not gaurantee anything. I've heard plenty of uber-expensive stereos that sound horrible.
The rich, being that they are rich, aren't not buying because of a lack of money.

How many are willing to spend double that amount for 36" of cable?

Especially when the differences are virtually inaudible as no one can tell in double blind listening tests. Again, "most people" are not going to be willing to spend hours listening for differences between cables. Using measurements would simplify things, but "measurements can't be trusted".
People will spend money on something like an I-pod because it is tailored to their lifestyle. Going by stereo systems I see photographed on Audiogon, even many audiophiles are NOT going to put speakers out into the room even when it givers markedly better sound. And these are people who care about sound.

I noticed that in less than a month this thread will be 10 years old. Bravo!!!

We audiophiles may be in mystical rapture over a system's properties, but the rest of Them are not. For Them, the song matters more than the sound.

Well, I gotta' admit the song matters to me much more than the sound. I can listen to a good song and a crappy system. Remember AM radio? But to listen to crappy music on ANY system, I'd rather not.

People that love audio love it because the sounds stimulate a specific part of the brain and we find it pleasurable. Non audiophiles just dont get the same amount of stimulation. It is known that some people with bipolar disorder can derive more pleasure from audio. Actress Margo Kidder (Lois Lane from 76 Superman)in an interview on 20/20 talked about her bipolar disorder. She says a regular person hears Beethoven's 5th and likes it. A bipolar could experience rapture. Interesting from her perspective. Not all audiophiles are bipolar. It does point to our brains and how they are hardwired. Each and everyone of us is unique. That was the biological factor. Now for the environmetal factor. Take someone that grew up in a musical family. Maybe the exposure to all that music made them take an interest in music or maybe the childs brain is hardwired like their parents. There's your answers. Again im not saying that all audiophiles are crazy. Maybe the ones that make 50k a year and have aqcuired a 100k system over the years. That would be kinda extreme but to them maybe not. They just love music! Audiophiles just experience more pleasure from sounds than another person would because of the way their (our) brains are made or developed.

Good post.
I personally would substitute "music lover" everywhere you wrote "audiophile."

I have believed for a long time that many people are simply wired to connect with music more than others. That's my answer to the OP's question.

No doubt there are most likely way more music lovers in the world than audiophile/techno-obsessive types.

I believe most of these tendencies are well established as youths and have perhaps some but minimal chance of changing significantly as we get older.

When I was a kid, I spent almost as time taking my electronic gear apart to see how it worked (and getting shocked in the process) as I did listening to music. I also work with technology for a living and started out by selling stereo/hi-fi and other electronic gear.

Just a thought.

Couple of quick comments:

As has already been mentioned once (and probably more, I didn't check) better systems don't come as a straightforward plug and play; instead there are myriads of if's and but's that (the salesman claims) are necessary to make it work just right. The luxury car market, for example, got this sort of thing sorted out a long time ago.

And, if a system works really, really well, it will take over the house in an auditory sense; I mean, if you really had the Stones live cranking it up in the end room would you really be able to push it into the background, and get on with the mundane things of life. At least, that's what the better half says (and I mean that in a positive, not negative sense) ... :-)

Frank

Better systems do come in a plug in and play formats. Single brand systems from Decware, Krell, Quad, Meridian, McIntosh, MBL and others are readily available. Or you could even let dealer select and setup a system for you. It's not that difficult to get high quality sound. I think many people on Audiogon make it complicated. They don't want to pay too much money and they want it personalized. It's more fun that way.

"It's not that difficult to get high quality sound."

I agree.

But there are many flavors of high quality sound.

I think what people struggle with more is getting the right flavor for them.

Some flavors are more popular than others.

Some are more esoteric.

But they are all pretty "high quality" .

Mapman, I agree. Your flavor comment is what I meant by personalizing.

Well then, it's settled - the reason why more people don't love audio is simply due to their not having found their flavor.

It couldn't have anything to do with their immunity to this particular obsession or their inability to spend this sort of money (or any at all) on audio toys. It isn't because they spend all of their disposable income on hunting, fishing, skiing, flying, sailing, racing, stamp collecting, college, bicycles, dog shows, rodeos, computer gaming, travel, each other or their church. It isn't because they are fighting foreclosure or have already fallen under that axe. And above all, with god as my witness, under no circumstances could it conceivably be because everything sounds the same to them and they could care less.

Oh, one more thing, 20,000,000 Americans are hard of hearing. That figure includes stone deaf, deaf in one ear, and needing a hearing aid to converse. Even if some of these people can hear music, they cannot appreciate qualitative differences in playback.

If you enjoy high end audio, lay back and bask in it. If you are concerned that other people don't value it as much as you do, then it would seem that you are seeking reinforcement and should re-evaluate your own commitment.

Music is nice but so are many other things. My wife likes to grow things in her garden and knit sweaters. She has a phenomenal sound system at her disposal and doesn't seem to mind that fact, but it can't replace those other things she values and enjoys. I think she is more "normal" than we are.

For most people music is what matters, not electronics. Playing with expensive electronics just to listen to music is unecessary to the majority of people, hence the lack of interest in it.

Macro,

Its true that some people (not many) don't even like ice cream.

Some are even allergic.

Many more are just prone to seeking enjoyment elsewhere.

Cheers, Merry Xmas, Happy Holidays, Happy New Year and whatever other flavors of celebration I may have overlooked to all!

there are many things competing for our attention and interest. we are bombarded every day by all kinds of stimuli.

the priority of listening to music characterized by "sonic excellence" , probably is not cogent for most people, who prefer to listen to music in the background mode.

mpst people have no interest in listening to music as an exclusive activity.

the computer and the tv set are more compelling .

I don't know that it's so much a case of not many people liking high quality audio as how many people actually like music to any degree. I am now 50+ and since leaving my teens have met very few people who really like music as we know it. You can forget the charts and the people who used to populate them, most of them (in my experience) only bought the odd single - the charts were simply made up by millions of occasional purchases. You could go to any of my friends houses, once they had reached adulthood and all it's inherent trappings and other distractions and the best you'd ever find there would be one of those little stacking systems. Their collection would perhaps be up to 30 CDs, often "Best ofs" and hits albums.

I would posit then that it's real music enthusiasts that are in the minority - the audio factor is then a small proportion of that minuscule figure.

When I grew up getting a "stereo" was part and parcel of the journey and considered the norm. Now kids have far too many distractions - gaming being the most obvious and prevalent. Having music is now considered a small element of life, taking its place alongside games, mobile technology PCs etc etc. For most people who know no other ethos, the quality of music is immaterial - it seems enough to have music wherever and whenever. Now I like music in the car but have no desire to have it elsewhere. My listening at home is split between via the PC, when I am working, or "proper" listening on the main system. The latter is the most important to me, as is it's high quality but that's not to say that other listening is devalued. I just need my hi-def fix.

Sorry, Onhwy61, what you talk of is NOT plug and play. Yes, manufacturers make all the main bits, which harmonise visually and hopefully sound wise, but they do NOT come as a complete package.

I am talking here of the Ikea experience: you walk in, say, "I want one of those please", have one, two, three, etc cartons to take home or be delivered. Open the boxes, everything is there, and I mean EVERYTHING, all the appropriate quality cables, stands, the funny bits that get it to work WELL, with simple, exceedingly clear instructions on how to hook it together, and especially all the little tips and techniques for getting the best out of it. If the dealer has to do it, then people will say, "how much of the price of my system is the paying of this fellow to do this?"

Buy a luxury car, you go to the showroom, dealer points out a few things, hands you the keys and you drive off. Buy a top notch HDTV, you put it on a stand or table, plug in power cord and aerial, kick off a totally automated setup and it shows pretty pictures. Both items just WORK with no fuss at all and that's what counts.

Remember, the question is "Why Don't MORE(!!) People Love Audio?". Why, because it is all too complicated! People have mental breakdowns getting a cheap and nasty home theatre box working, after all ... :-)

Frank

Frank - Very few people ever get to the point of finding audio complicated because they lack the motivation to find audio.

I don't know if I can type slowly enough for all of you obstinate audio freaks to get it but the harsh reality is this:

We are oddballs - eccentrics - what we find irresistible is of no interest whatsoever to the vast majority of our fellow citizens. Just accept that. There is no magic solution to this non-problem.