With the exception of some of there tube gear, not many really use this stuff(or admit to it anyway), I am mainly referring to there amps. They look pleasant, they look good on paper and have the price of high end gear, but I seldom hear anyone claiming to like or one day dreaming of owning McIntosh. I have never really listened to there stuff, no good word of mouth sort of scares me away from it, the only people who like it are those who sell it, an uncanny coincidence? I don’t know. Sorry it this has been covered many times in the past, I ran a search and could not find anything.
when you say the roland sounded too calm and collected, what do you mean ? i have auditioned many roland amps and pres, but not in my own stereo system. i have also heard older roland gear with avalon speakers in nyc at an audio dealer. i wouldn't characterize the sound of roland as calm and collected.
also, are you suggesting the roland sounds more like an old tube sound and the mac more like a modern, non-tubey presentation ?
also the question about mac and audio enthusiasts perhaps should focus on the strengths and weaknesses of mcintosh amps, preamps and digital sources.
I am considering taking the plunge and try out a Tube amplifier in my system. I have a McIntosh MC402 amplifier, C2200 preamp, MCD201 CD player, and Legacy Audio Focus 20/20 speakers. I am considering Bi-amping. Using a tube amplifier to drive the mids and the highs in the speakers, and the MC 402 to drive the woofers. My questions are: How do I go about selecting a tube amp that would match the MC 402 for the Bi-amp application? Shouldn't I be concerned about matching the gain and input sensitivity of both amplifiers? The MC 402 has a input sensitivity of 2V (Unbalanced) and 4V (balanced), but I am not sure what the gain is because the MC 402 specification has several listings for db, but did not specify the output gain in db. I am considering the following tube amps: MC 2102, a Cary CAD 120S, and an Audio Space NOVA 88 mono block. Does anyone have a Bi-Amp configuration in their system, or Does anyone have some guidance for me, especially on the input sensitivity and the gain for the amps?
A buddy of mine runs a pair of gigantic Bozak Concert Grands with four MC-30s and a couple of different Mac preamps, as well as a Mac CD changer (not sure of the model numbers). He also owns a bunch of other Mac stuff, including two MC-275s and who knows what else, but they're collector's pieces and not normally in use.
As weird as this combination sounds on paper, it actually sounds wonderful. Amazing bottom end coherence and consistency throughout the entire tonal range (I'm sorry, but there's nothing like the sound of eight 12" woofers); I always leave his place feeling jealous.
I believe people who categorically slam McIntosh gear either haven't heard it set up properly or are just ignorant.
I've a 47 y/o mc240 live in a share house with 2 others theres always someone dropping around and music is always going flat out.
Most of them have your average $1000/$2500 audio equipment and think they know a good sound. Until they hear the 47 y/o mcintosh,comments like I can't believe its only a 40 watt amp Its so detailed are common. Sh!t I've lost count of how many people have been blown away by it. As for reliability its only ever had the caps replaced. Its very easy on tubes runs cool. I own a Markhill 6L6 A 2 y/o runs very hot, eats tubes up like there gone out of fashion.(pun intended) .Its a nice sound for what it is but it hasn't got a patch on the mac.
A Mac MA6800 just rescued my B&W 805s from the brink of being sold. I have had a lower budget system of Yamaha NS-1000Xs and an old Luxman L-507 amp that I've been extremely proud of for many years. It sounds much better than many very expensive systems I've heard.
Last year I added B&W 805s to make it 4-channels, mainly because of my poor hearing on one side (While it loses imaging, 4 channels means if I turn my head it all still sounds good, whereas with 2 channels I'll only hear one speaker). The system has a nice synergy, with the B&Ws adding smoother highs to make-up for the Yamahas weaker point of the tweeters. For the past year, however, I've wanted to replace the B&Ws with something offering more punch and bigger, tighter bass.
To make a long (and on-going) story short, I suddenly on a whim splurged and bought Sonus Faber Guarneri Homages. They look SO NICE. Unfortunately, they sounded AWFUL run by my old Luxman L-507, a 50-60 Wpc SS amp from 1973. Urgent to give the Guarneris a fairer shot at impressing me, I read about and found quite a few people recommended them with the McIntosh MA6900. As the MA6800 cost just a bit over half of the 6900, but still provides 150 W/channel, I brought an MA6800 home to try with the Guarneris.
This told me a little more, but not everything, about the potential of the Guarneris, but in the process, it did something unexpected. On the suggestion of a visiting British audiophile friend, I happened plug my B&Ws in to the McIntosh with some really good jazz recordings, and GEEEZE! What a match!
Those B&Ws won't be leaving my house at any time soon now, nor will the MA6800.
Really, McIntosh has become some what of an installer brand sold at licensed low voltage and home automation dealers. Right next to alarms and vacuume cleaners. I don't know what this does to the brands image, but surely allot of gear is falling into the hands of people with more money than knowledge of either audio gear or music. They have never heard of Mac nor a Dorian mode. lolol They just want a home theater because they went to a dinner party at so n so's house that had a big home theater and now they are down at the home theater store getting a one-on-one meeting with a consultant to talk over thier needs.
It's also being sold at some fairly big box stores, but I guess you need to sell somewhere. You can't fault a company for trying to sell a product and with all the smaller stores crashing, one needs to go somewhere so maybe this is not bad in and off itself.
Also, Mac car audio gear can't really help in the eyes of true audiophiles. What's next, an alarm clock radio?
Really, the many times I have heard Mac, it was okay, but did not reach out and grab me in any way. I could take it or leave it. Nothing to die for. I think the autoformers that make the amps weigh a ton is what probably gives people the impression of over the top build- their noting but dead weight, why does no other SS amp use output transformers?
I recently auditioned and bought a pair of MC501's driving Martin Logan CLX's via an MBL 6010D. I was and am blown away by the Mcintosh sound. I am listening to the music, live or studio, and no longer listening to the audio equipment. For so long I viewed this brand as anachronistic and appealing to those that did not know Hi-Fi. I am wrong. The Mcintosh product is state of the art, soundwise, design wise and looks-wise. A real manual is provided (not a garage company) and the packaging is as it should be for expensive gear. This is a company that knows its business and is very customer driven.
Time for a few audiophiles to stop "listening with their eyes" and audio review mentality and listen to the music with their ears!
My personal experience has been consistent with some of the other posters - Mac gear sounds pretty good but seems a bit slow, bloated and not very resolving.
Two of my friends have solid state Mac gear. One with more recent Mac pre/power amps with B&W Nautilus speakers, and the other with Mac pre/power amps with JBL studio speakers from some years back. Over the past few years, I've listened to their systems and was never really that impressed. They have also come to listen to my system at various times - my system has changed over the years but the preamp was either a Sonic Frontiers or Jeff Rowland, while the power amp was either a Threshold SA's or Pass Labs Aleph's with B&W Matrix speakers.
What was interesting is that they consistently notice the imaging, detail, and spaciousness of the sound with the SF/Jeff Rowland and Threshold/Pass Labs. Granted the speakers, room, and setup play a major part in this, but it is interesting that they identify this sonic difference in character. And I certainly agreed with their assessment.
Not saying which sound is better or worse but to each his/her own - whether Mac or not.
Boy this is really a silly post..so I guess I'll throw in my 2cents too.... Some musicians use Fender Strats & Tele's (not telefunken for those not in the know), some Gibson Les Pauls or 335's. Marshall amps vs. fender amps!!Who CARES!! Listen to what you like ,buy what you like, we don't have to justify anything to anyone!! Sheeshhh!!!
There are alot of audio enthusiast that own McIntosh, but there are also alot of McIntosh owners who have never heard of Amperex or Teles (not casters)- in other words a brand of good equipment that might be owned by many who have never read TAS or heard of Audiogon - different then let's say folks that own DeHaviland SETs for example. Mac sells alot of gear to alot of types of folks, some are not audiophiles mor do they want to be, but they have some money and they want some "good" stuff and they trust the brand of their fathers. Regradless, excellent gear at the beginning, and again today (there was a dark ages IMHO).
Silly statement indeed. I think people would agree that for the most part people on this site are audiophiles or at least take pride in their equipment. Plug Mcintosh into the systems search page and you will find about 400 people who use Mac gear in their systems...
I think many people like to crap on Mcintosh because it is a larger company owned by a conglomerate not necessarily because they have ever heard the equipment setup correctly. Mcintosh has a history and heritage and is a business adn to some that defies the idea it could be a real high end company.
MC is also still standout expensive in an industry of generally expensive products. I currently own Mcintosh equipment as well as stuff from CJ, SAE, ATI,Portage, Harman Kardon, YS Audio, Creek, Cambridge Audio, and others. I just bought some "new" vintage MC equipment I am having refurbished by Terry DeWick. I like the MC sound but prefer the older SS or tubes to todays stuff....maybe because I can afford more of it. I do, however, see where it is different depending on the music I listen to, the source I use, the speakers its played thru etc. Generally I feel MC is a little less detailed on the highe end but makes the mid-range just right, real, warm and like music. I started with MC 35+ years ago and have left and come back more than once. I found over time that most others SS sounded etched on the high end even though it was seen as "detailed". I found I could not listen as long or as intently as ot the MC. AND, I have never even owned MC tubes and dont consider myself an audiophile but rather just a music lover who occasionally has extra money to try to make his experience better! I have it in mind next that tubes will be something I have to get deep into as I heard a wonderful MC tube amp setup and system at Overture Audio 2 years ago that bests all the rest of my audio "memories". I think it might be my "last system". To each his own I think is the real answer....if you like it buy it. You should at least listen with open, objective ears.
In my 30 years as a 'recorded music' fan, I have not heard anything as stunning as Burmester electronics, a company started by a musician/engineer. Burmester has all the virtues of tubes, with the quickness of ss. I had a McIntosh MCD500 for a year, and was quite impressed with it. Their amps are decent also. But, their preamps do nothing for me-no magic or emotion. For me, music is about passion and emotion, and Mc gear does not do it. However, I am old enough to know that it does not mean Mc gear is not good stuff because I did not connect with it
Talk2me - My only piece of Mc gear is the MCD500, which I have found to be musically quite impressive at its price point. Since you no longer have your MCD500, did you replace it with another CDP? If so, may I ask what replaced your MCD500 and what you prefer about it over the MCD500?
Well, I think that Audio Enthusiasts do indeed use McIntosh. McIntosh has it's unique sound just like (not that same as) Audio Research and others. Many really like the Mac sound. I have heard some wonderful sounding McIntosh equipment. As always, equipment interaction and speakers make a big difference. I have heard great McIntosh equipment through exceptionally bright speakers and it drove me out of the room. However, it wasn't the McIntosh electronics that was the problem. But, to elaborate, I have heard top of the line Krell equipment that was wayyyy too bright for me. Swapped the equipment with some other high end equipment through the same speakers and wow! great sound. So, in my experience, Krell is still too bright for my taste, but for some other people, they love the Krell sound. To each their own. McIntosh makes some really good/great equipment. But, as with any other manufactures, it has it's own "sound".
If you can get past the big vu meters, build quality thats over the top, a company that has making gear forever, and represents a status symbol that you have finally arrived, you could actually settle on something else less attractive. However as good as it is there could be something better depending on your personal tastes and what your trying to match it with.
I heard various Hanson speakers powered by the latest McIntosh gear about a year ago or so. The systems sounded horrible. I attributed it to the Hansons since I had never heard the speakers. Someone else who heard the same demo and heard the speakers elsewhere agreed that the electronics were to blame for the poor sound. I was shocked, as I thought would be a great combo.
To be upfront, I am a Mac enthusiast. I have been for a long time now. Currently, I am using a 2102 tube power amp with a 2200 tube preamp. These two pieces give me liquid sound with plenty of base. I also get wide sound staging great image focus. But what really gets me going is the sound this equipment produces is just what I want. Over the past 40 years I have had other brands of equipment, but I always seem to come back to Mac.
I am a frequent visitor to Audiogon and have been on site enough to have heard all the cleches and worn out stereotype phrases made by Audiogon patrons about Mac gear. Frankly, I think that most of the naysayers don't know what they are talking about. Everyone has an opinion about audio gear, but I haven't heard any of the anti-Mac people use reasons others than the same old, same old. Makes you wonder. I too, have noticed that Mac gear rarely shows up here for sale. I read about the trade-up program in a previous response and would agree (although I have never heard of it) that maybe that has some effect on the scarcity of used equipment on Audiogon. But, I don't think that is the only reason. It could just be that Mac equipment is well built and doesn't wear out (My 2102 is almost 10 years old. Never needed anything but tubes. I have a MC150 solid state amp that is 15 years old and hasn't needed anything but light bulbs). It could also mean that Mac customers are totally in love with their equipment and don't want to change. I also noticed that when Mac equipment comes available on Audiogon, it doesn't stay available for long. That in itself says a lot about Mac gear.
Like I said above, everyone has an opinion about audio gear. It just amazes how many sheep out there spout the same stuff over and over again. Where are the original free thinkers?
Frepec - I agree with you. There are some people who like to stir up controversy just to see the response. I have owned some gear by varios manufacturers through the years including McIntosh, Audio Research, Conrad-Johnson, Bryston, Cary, Manley, McCormack, etc. Having rotated through various gear, I would take the Mac equipment back any day. It is warm sounding, extremely reliable, pleasant to look at, and holds its value. As you said, there are alot of sheep out there just following the rest of flock, too clueless to form their own opinions.
Since my last post on this thread (many moons ago) I added to my McIntosh experience by replacing my MBL 6010D preamp with the CT 1000. I thought that was a "ballsy" move on my part as the MBL continues to gain acceptance as a world class preamp - and rightly so. This is not about a comparison between the two but, after repalcing the stock tubes with Gold Lions the McIntosh clearly qualifies as world class that can hold its own with anything out there.
Now to the "house sound". As I listen to my amps there is no reason to support the notion that Mac gear is "warm" or "fuzzy" or lacking in detail. As a long time audiophile always looking for "the next best thing" Mac gear delivers consistency, product support, great sound and reliability. What is not to like? Oh, BTW it reminds me of a similar thread to this on this forum regarding Musical Fidelity gear. I have that stuff, have had it for over 20 years and the same applies .....
Having a reliable company around supplying world class gear to support our hobby should not be sneezed at. If it doesn't float your boat sound wise, that is fine, but let's support the venerable manufacturers such as Mac, such as ARC, such as MF, and so on that provide quality products, well branded, well supported and even if they segment their customer base to include main street consumers we should applaud their resilience to survive and prosper.
Owning a McIntosh integrated amp for a little over a year now, and loving it more each day. I have desired a Mc based system for nearly three decades. When finally deciding to purchase compared various brands some costing much more and some of course less. Definitely an audio enthusiast and have found that Mc gear hits the mark in many areas of satisfaction. This is a hobby where one picks their poison, too overlook McIntosh is to perhaps miss out on a truly wonderful world of reproduced music.
Since I was a wee little nipper ther was always music. A suitcase record player at 5, small tape player at 7, a boom box with detachable speakers at 11, hand me down 70's system from an uncle at 13, the family Harmon Kardon with Pioneer speakers at 14-15, then at 19 I got the "itis". Am now on my 3rd big system 2nd of which is Mc. 13 years ago I tried the others and preferred the Mc. Presently finishing up my curent rig and still prefer the Mc. I can't imagine not giving Mc a listen.
What is an "audio enthusiast"? If you mean people who love listening to recorded music, then I suspect that many people with iPods and earbuds better meet the criteria, while many people who churn through audio equipment are not. I suspect the latter group actually exhibits some form of OCD, not "audio enthusiasm". The evidence is the number of people trying to sell mega-buck components because they need money. Makes me wonder what delusion they were under when they bought the component in the first place.
In any case, I used to own a Mac MC275 and upgraded to a VAC Phi 200, at more than double the price. The VAC is a better amp. However, it in no way embarrasses the MC275.
i dont have any MC components yet - looking for something good , so i can cmpare to Accuphase (have quite a few - seperates and integraded)... but after reading this thread - i think that MC is like a Rolex in watch world - if you wear one, most of the people will recognize it as a expansive and best watch... i do have one and few other brands (Patek, Zenith, blancpain..) - i stopped wearing rolex - too many people made comments about it.. i do wear other ones and quite offten people comment on the other ones.... they suggest to me to buy rolex - " now this is a good watch, the best".... yes, i just nod my head. that is why i want to try MC - just to see if it is what people say about it. but if someone wants to show to people the money - buy a rolex, 90% will recognize the mark and price right a way.... maybe it is true with MC too..., will test once i get it.
10-14-11: Hakuchosan i think that MC is like a Rolex in watch world - if you wear one, most of the people will recognize it as a expansive and best watch... i do have one and few other brands (Patek, Zenith, blancpain..) - i stopped wearing rolex - too many people made comments about it.. i do wear other ones and quite offten people comment on the other ones.... they suggest to me to buy rolex - " now this is a good watch, the best".... yes, i just nod my head.
Rolex with its history for making the first diving watch and the date complication, I think it would be just a natural response for most people to recognize it as an icon in the horological sense. Rolex watches are still affordable compared to Patek's astronomical pricing. Whatever it is I don't blame people who thinks they are the best. Perhaps best for value? iconic design? Usability? Fashion? Personally, I prefer JLC.
Macs has its own history too, you're right... an iconic brand as well. They are really good with some speakers, B&W, Totems, Paradigms....IME., Try it if it matches your system and let us know.
And the saga continues over the years. I was one who came up believing that Mac gear was just a pioneer of its day and that with CJ, Krell, Rolland, Threshold, et al anyone who bought Mac just did not know what "real" high end was. I have had them all and recently picked up an old Threshold S500 that I had Jon Soderber tweek out to the max hoping it would bring me back to when I owened an Sa4e that was probably my favorite amp of all time driving my B&W 801's UNTIL now. I picked up some B&W 802 N and the Threshold just did not let the speakers shine. I read on the blogs that a lot of people seemed to like the Mac power amps with them so I bought on a whim a like new MC 402 stereo amp. Wow, I could not believe how unbelievable it sounded. I was using a CJ Preimier 17 pre-amp and tried a friends SS MF 308CR that believe it or not bettered the CJ so I bought one. Now I had a chance to get a C2200 Mac tube pre for a great deal and it should be coming this week. I do not know what to expect but sure hope it will be as good as or better than my MF as I would love to have the matching set. It really is all about the sound but I do like the looks too especially when the lights are out. SOOOOO I must confess I am no longer a snob and realize this new Mac gear, (at least my amp) is killer. Now I will have to get advice on tube rolling but then again what sounds right for you may not be right for me.
Is this question even serious? There is a world out there beyond Audiogon, believe or not. Through the years I met dozens of people who had great systems with McIntosh SS gear. Especially the newer generation 252, 352 and many still love their Mc500 stereo amp. They sound great, and I have heard them with many different types of speakers.
There are obviously many people buying the McIntosh gear sold here and elsewhere. McIntosh owners, especially the older ones do hang on for longer periods of time to their gear and dont keep looking for the next wonder gear down the pike.
I am not currently a McIntosh owner besides my trusty MCD-7009 CDP.
Buy what YOU like and quite worrying about what others think. After all, you should be buying for your satisfaction, not to impress others. Who cares what others think about your system.
"Buy what YOU like and quite worrying about what others think. After all, you should be buying for your satisfaction, not to impress others. Who cares what others think about your system."
Great post! Currently, enjoying a brand new pair of MC2301's. Very enjoyable and effortless power driving a pair of B&W N800's.
Based on my experiences over the years, I believe the Mc's sound is in the same league as other well respected manufacturers, obviously, with their own sound, which is either appealing or not so appealing to others. Having owned other flavors of SS and tube amps over the years from pioneer, carver, adcom, mark levinson, soundscraftsman, Bryston, Octave, Crown, and Rotel, the macs certainly sound excellent to these ears.
Enjoy what you own for right now. If you stay in this hobby long enough, you will roll through many pieces of audio equipment, sometimes as much as people roll tubes or swap out cables. The amps I replaced lasted 7 years before the swap to the macs. Some equipment I even thought was my last purchase, hmmm, should I say that about the new MC2301?
"Enjoy what you own for right now. If you stay in this hobby long enough, you will roll through many pieces of audio equipment, sometimes as much as people roll tubes or swap out cables. The amps I replaced lasted 7 years before the swap to the macs. Some equipment I even thought was my last purchase, hmmm, should I say that about the new MC2301? "
Prophetic.
My crystal ball sees a SET amp in your not so near future. :-)
This thread has been going for over eleven years. I honestly never had the pleasure to listen to McIntosh. I would like to. Mc2301 @ 300 watts! I am currently listening to a pair of mono's @ 3 watts total. How's that Onemug? :)
I am bi-amping a pair custom 2 ways with an active x/o. I use a 300b SET on the mid/woofer and a 2a3 SET for the tweeter. It's the best sound I have been able to re-create in my room.
FWIW: A Wavelength Duetto was the first SET I ever heard. It's what sold me on SETs to begin with.
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