As in former post I do believe that Mac is good gear, however both their preamps and amps are slightly on the dark and slow side for me. I think that for example CAT gear is significantly better.
And I work for a mac dealer! |
Well put Ben...As I am new to Mcintosh with 501 mono's they continue to far exceed my expectations. I have about 100 hours on them, and they are the most natural sounding and organic amps I've heard. |
Let me be the first to say that while i love my Mac gear, I know there are other fine audio companies making top equipment that sounds really good. I also know there are companies making very expensive gear thats sounds, well yuk. I have heard good things about CAT,BAT,Quicksilver,CJ etc and if I tried some of that geat and loved it,great, I would still keep my Mac gear. |
Some see it as "conservative looking," or "old fashioned looking," think that only doctors or dentists can afford it, which makes no sense since all high end equipment is pricey and McIntosh is by no means the most expensive. Just one of those odd things. I wouldn't own anything else. |
I own one original MC-275 and use it for many years. I then bought two re-issued MC-275 in the 90's and run them in mono 150W per channel for my Ediolon. I recently bought another pair of MC-275 and put them aside for safe keeping. Simply put, it has the best output transformer which is so critical for tube amp. It is magical when it is run in mono mode. I have owned many other amps before and they include VTL Ichiban, AudioResearch VT-100, Jadis JA-500a monoblock etc.. The output transformers of these amps are nothing compare to the technology of McIntosh. For pure 150Watt per channel it is value for money. |
In my area exposure to some of the smaller names is hard to come by. I currently have and favor the McIntosh/Klipsch combination, mine being a ma6200 and klipsch forte's in one room, ma6100 with B&W 602 s3 in another, and a third room with another ma6100 and JBL SVA1800 with various sources such as Denon Rotel and Marantz cd players, Rega Dual and Thorens turntables, . Compared to other vintage equipment, Mac really cornered the market in my opinion. Newer stuff maybe less so. I've listened to some new Mac equipment compared to some other stuff such as Krell, Mark Levinson, Conrad Johnson, Jolida, Audio Research and I think there is better equipment out there than some of the current Mac units, but for the price you can get quality classic Mac equipment for, you would be stuck with lesser equipment if using that same amount of money on new stuff. I like McIntosh for a couple reasons, with limited funds, quality used equipment can be had, the look of Mac installed into an oak wall in a stereo closet is really impressive, and it has a large following which means service will be easier to come by. |
I am a new Mc owner and just read all of this interesting thread. I can't comment on alot of the other gear that has been listed, but I can comment on what I own. I don't really consider myself an audiophile, but I do love good music. My problem is not knowing what sounds good to me, it is my very meager finances. Too many teenage kids and not enough income. I have tried to choose wisely in what I could afford, which was around $1000 for amp and speakers.
Anyway, I found locally 2 Mc MC40 monoblocks (yes, I know they are from the 60's) from a local expert tech. They have been his personal amps for the last 25 years. I also picked up a pair of Altec Model 17's (6048G's) 100db/watt/meter. I know these aren't regarded as audiophile gear by alot of uppercrust folks, but the music these put out is awesome to my ears. I love my Mc's and my Altecs. Total cash outlay was $750. I would gladly have a shootout with anyone elses $750 system.;o) I know most of you paid more for your cables than I have in my system, which I have no problem with, I would have spent more if I could. The point I am trying to make is we need to support everyone who has an interest in this wonderful hobby. When I have asked questions on here, rarely do people comment. Why is that? Am I too bottom crust since I can't afford the latest and greatest? Do I think McIntosh is the best? No. But it was the best I could afford and I love it. This hobby has way to many elitest that drive lots of people away. I still think it's all about the music, and my old vintage system makes great music to my ears. We need to support each other, especially the newbies. Yes, I am a newbie, but this is my perception of alot of what I read here.
Not intended to slam anyone, just hoping you very knowledgeable folks will take a newbie under your wing and help him enjoy his quest for better music.
Rant over, carry on!! ;o)
Peace out!!! |
Holy crap! you got MC40s + speakers for $750!! Have you seen what MC40s can go for on Ebay or Agon? Man, I wish I could have gotten as luck as you. You can upgrade speakers and CD player for a LONG time before those amps will become the limiting factor. Many people would consider you elitest for having those amps!
Also, as a newbie, be careful not to trust your judgement too much. I found out through lots of experimentation that opinions are a moving target. |
Aball, yeah I realize I got really lucky on the Mc's and speakers. I did do alot of looking, talking to people and following up on leads, but it seems to have paid off. I guess it goes to show that a blind squirrel does find an acorn every once in a while. I don't know if the upgrade bug will hit me, but for now, I am very happy with what I hear.
Take care!! |
Guys,
I have always had a pre-conceived opinion about Mc products.My Cary dealer also carries Mcintosh products-I sneered at him (within myself)for suggesting a Mcintosh monobloc.
A few months ago I listened to the mc 501s.They were just fantastic.I have listened to other reference components before.The new generation Mcs are something different.I dont want people to miss out on a good product because of snobbery and pre-conceived ideas.IMO Mc 501s are in the league of Krell,PLinius,Classe Omega,etc
My experience and hence my opinion is limited to the MCintosh amps alone.I dont know how their CDPs perform. |
Wwwrecords, because you DO know what sounds good to you, your system will be far better than most who have spent more either trying to impress someone (themselves), or believing salesmen or reviewers. Enjoy what you have. I have only one rule: If it draws me more into the music, I'll buy it. Good luck. |
while there is no way subjectively compare audio, and results in as many opinions as people, the same is not so for the automobile. The longest consecutively produced car in the world? Worlds most winning (preformance, endurance, competition) car? The one sports car that has outsold every other sports car in the world COMBINED? The fastest car in America today? At over 50 years,and now 500 horses.You don't have to like it, but come on tireguy, the worst car on the road? TAlk about an attitude. this site has the trophy.ALL the know-it-alls, yet no way to know it! |
Had a funny experience yesterday. Another Audiogon member with whom I speak regularly--and someone who has owned and heard some very fine audio gear--asked me if I had any familiarity with McIntosh. And the subsequent conversation went like this:
ME: "Yeah, we just bought a McIntosh amp (MC7200) a few weeks ago."
HIM: "You did?! How do you like it?"
"We love it. Now we have our SET amps for the intimate music, and the McIntosh will drive all the music we like that is more punchy. Plus, we leave it on all the time, and the power cord is captive, so I don't have to fuss with that either. I primarily listen to it, not the SET's, since the MAC is on all the time."
"But what about the sound?"
"Not as airy and textured as our SET amps, but with the tube preamp, it's pure joy. It just sounds like beautiful, rounded, dense music, perfectly balanced, never fatiguing, and completely engaging."
"Did you ever have a bias against McIntosh, you know, think of it as audiophile gear for NON-audiophiles?"
"Yep. I always thought that somehow it wouldn't be on the same level as the better audio gear out there."
"I always thought so, too," he said, "and I have no idea why. But the reason I was calling was to get your opinion since I just ordered an MC275 today!"
My wife and I cannot see ourselves WITHOUT a piece of McIntosh gear. Love it! Oh, and I called McIntosh Labs to order replacement bulbs for the amp. I was on/off the phone within three minutes, order completed. I was impressed. |
Lots of good posts and lots of really misguided ones...I have owned good to great stuff all bought used here and other places...and lazy I aint...I research a alot trying to get bang for buck,,,I started out with Adcom, moved to Musical Design (great stuff), then went to the Lazarus H-1A class A hybrid, some handmade 6550 tube monos, Mcintosh Mc250, McIntosh MC40's, C26, C33, C11 preamp, Berning EA-230 triode amps and his TF-10 preamp (current setup).
I have listened to a lot of the modern Mc gear of which non I can afford. And its simply great sounding. No doubt about it. I think that maybe most McOwners simply want their good to sound good, without all the paralysis by analysis that many audiophiles go thru analyzing all the bloody details that encompasses their utopian mind.
Thats not being lazy, but simply realistic and just judging good sound (to the buyers ears). I mean, c'mmon,,,knocking Mc501's or Mc352's as not being good, or missing something is ludicrous...Just because they dont fill your cup of audiophile analysis.
How can McIntosh try to market the masses when their stuff is so expensive anyway...it just caters to music lovers with an eye for certain aesthetics.
I dont own any Mc gear anymore, but just because I didnt want so much of my limited capital tied up in a few pieces, but I did McI. |
Howard, that's a hilarious story! Who was that guy? :-) And I wonder how the Mcintosh will work in his system. And will his audio friends ostracize him when they learn he is using Mcintosh? I really want to know the answers to these burning questions. Only time will tell... |
The fastest car in America? Who knows? The fastest car produced by an American automaker? The Ford GT!
How does this relate audio? I don't have the slightest idea.
Anyway, Merry Christmas and Happy Listening to one and all. |
Their use of autoformers in SS design. Ever wonder why they`re the only one? |
I have tried many Mcintosh amps in my house & never liked any of them. They were all solid state. The way I feel they sound is very boring, no life, just dull. I had the intrgrated with Output transformers on my CLS & it did not drive them well at all. Now there new CD changer I hade at home & I could hear the disc spining from my listing seat.
The build quality on it was far from a good sony SACD player. |
to answer tireguy's original question there is a stigma placed on mcintosh gear & it's buyer's are AUTOMATICLY dismissed as being too stupid or lazy to try gear that better suit's them or the classic accusation of being hypnotized by the big blue meter's into buying a pile of overpriced junk based on fancy look's or name recognizition.
marketing hype of other gear also plays a big factor with mac owner's not stepping up & giving review's,with the allmighty pure signal path being the king of today's hifi that it is mac owners get blasted over autoformer's & tone control's in their amp's & preamps,not many are willing to put their self into the hot seat that will surely follow.
it's become common place if not sheik for audiophile's to jump on the bash mcintosh band wagon even though most have never owned any mac gear.
mike.
|
Proziob,once again you pop into another mac thread & set off with yet another diahrea of the mouth anti autoformer speel without ever qualifing your statement's,did your dad accidently drop a mac amp on your foot when you were little or what?
i can respect krellm7's comment's as he qualified his dislike of mac gear but you never say anything about all the mac gear you have had in your home that you hated so much,please enlighten us as to what model's you have owned that made you dislike autoformer's.
btw, your autoformer info is way outdated,mcintosh is not the only manufacturer using autoformer's in fact there are several other's using knock off's of the mac autoformer & recieving the highest of praises too,google is a wonderfull investigative tool & you should try it out.
mike. |
I still am a Mac fan, sort of. Then again, maybe not. It does not seem to be the same company it once was. I tried repeatedly (REPEATEDLY)to get help with repair of some very high end classic Mac gear that I have owned since new. All to no avail. I had to even struggle to get any response at all. No one cared at Mac. I know all these companies want to sell new gear but Mac positions themselves as providing support on into infinity, basically. And yes, I did contact others who specialize in Mac repairs and replacement parts. I finally gave up and sold most of the gear as is on EBay. I may expect this from some companies that have clearly changed their marketing and management styles. But McIntosh still boasts of how they stand behind their gear. I have not found that they do, so it would be truthful (I believe) if they would stop communicating that they do. I do not believe they are any longer the "Lexus" they advertise themselves to be. Of course, I know there are many others who will disagree but this has been my frustrating experience. Too bad I guess. Good bye Mac. |
SIT, i would be interested in knowing what peice of gear that mac wouldnt service for you,ive had terrible luck with them trying to get them to recone speaker's for me now that they changed over to all 4 ohm stuff(junk in my oponion) & ive had to find my own source for new voice coil's too but other than that they have alway's sent me to somebody close by.
let us know what they wouldnt service so we can stay away from it.
mike. |
name another company that retains the same degree of resale value. That says somthing. And I do not own Macs.
Larry |
Bigjoe- This is response from "SIT" to your question about which Mac pieces I gave up on. These are MC2300 amp, C29 preamp, one pair XR-7 loudspeakers. Sold As-is on Ebay about 1 1/2 year ago. Really broke my heart 'cause this was suppose to be top of the line gear and I maintained it meticulously over the years.
4+ yr. ago I had a channel go out on my MC2300 amp (gold and black panel 300 WPC unit) and a couple of other problems. Also had problem develop almost simultaneously with the C29 preamp where a nagging buzzing sound could not be cured. When I purchased both in '79 I also purchased a pair of XR-7 loudspeakers with the MQ-107 Environmental Equalizer. I was supporting myself thru college at Ohio State at the time and spent every spare dime I had to get this gear. McIntosh was absolutely no help to me in getting the gear back up to reasonable operating condition. I took it in for repair in Baltimore and then in Erie (PA) and no one could seem to fix things to work properly for any period of time.
Nearly right out of the box w/ my new XR-7 pair I had to replace (under the 5 yr.warranty) two of the 4 dome midrange loudspeakers. I ended up replacing all 4 with 2 not being covered by warranty. Roger Russell admits to a shortcoming with the domes....!
I am still looking for coils to replace 4 dome speakers on two other sets of XR-7 speakers I still own. Recently, I was able to get one rebuilt dome speaker (NOT FROM McINTOSH!!!) but I still need 4 more. McIntosh basically told me "tough luck". DO YOU KNOW WHERE I CAN GET THE COILS FOR THESE DOMES?
John |
Ed_sawyer I agree almost exactally on your discription on the Mac sound. It is just plain dull. The MC275 is a great amp though. The build quality is NOT great tap on there preamps & sources& some of there amps they ring like a bell. |
hello sit,i dont know what mac's deal is with the mc2300 but i also had problem's with their service dept a few year's ago over that model amp & all i wanted was a replacement meter,i went thru hell with them trying to get a new meter or the old one repaired.
the speaker rebuilder i use is fantastic & has completely rebuilt several older model speaker's for me,jbl l250 ti,mcintosh xl1,mcintosh xl1w,atlec 14's,klipschorn's & heresy's & i think several other's too.
the company's name is MICHIGAN SOUND REINFORCEMENT & their telephone number's are 1-810-238-2772 & 1-810-238-4893, they open at noon i think.
i remember that the type of dual voice coil used in the older model's is tough to find & with the xl1's i had them rebuild they had one hell of a time locating the vioce coil's for the mid's but they did end up finding them & rebuilding the mid's for me.
hopefully they can hook you up. |
I know why Mcintosh sounds bad. They use Mcintosh speakers to listen to there equipment. |
I think the amps are okay but far overpriced, now McIntosh Preamps are where its at.. Very good for the most part and those super tuff systems that need a little "TLC" with tone controls benifit greatly. I have owned a Krell piece and to explain it sounded like a piece of Steel from the moon or something if that makes any sense in translating sound. Truely most mark levinson stuff is decent but more stereo sounding than organic or live, Krell well from the intergrated and preamps I owned now make me laugh, They do have a pretty sweet pair of speakers that run about 12000.00 a pair I believe, they are real solid like extruded aluminum and tall, sounded very nice, I think they were like scanspeak drivers or something, and I heard Krells 30000.00 sub, sure nice but for a 30000.00 sub I think I could buy about 10 of the best subs on the planet and really destroy some drywall. |
The best thing I can say about McIntosh is that in the month+ since we purchased our MC7200 amp, I have not tweaked anything in our system. That has not happened in over two years! I was constantly looking for better sound, and for whatever reason, this amp has quieted that need. Consequently, my frustration with the system is also gone.
Last weekend, some friends and I took a drive to Amoeba Records in Berkeley, and I picked up 25 new CDs. Just enjoying the music, more than ever. As some have said, McIntosh is not for audiophiles. It's for music lovers. I happen to agree. |
I never thought I would own any Mac because of my impression of mid-fi because so many mid-fi retailers have the line. Then I read the reviews on the newer stuff, 402, 501's, and the preamps and it tweaked my interest. I researched enough to go take a listen and compare amps. The 402's were very special, the 501's were just a notch better in every regard. Ultimately it came down to those 2 amps and the CJ 350 because I love CJ preamps and own a premier 14 .
I bought the 501's and paired them with Meridian front end, laid back, premier 14, a liitle laid back, and Thiel 3.6...the truth! and the combination is the best I've had in my room. Throw in MIT reference wire and I can't believe how good everything sounds. Boa...it put me where you are, listen to the music, not the system. |
Dear Krellm7, I do not know if you've ever heard the XR-7 speakers accompanied by the MQ-107 Environmental Equalizer.
The sound is so rich and natural that I believe they still compete with far more expensive units today. My beef with McIntosh is the lack of service/support based upon my experiences. Admittedly Mac quality on speakers went down for many years and may still be down, I don't know. But they had some terrific units in the 70's and early 80's. Beautiful to look at too with rather timeless design and very high quality materials and workmanship overall. |
BigJoe,
Thanks so much for your response. I will be contacting Michigan Sound very soon. Damn though, I really did like the sound eminating from the MC2300. Wish Mac could have done more (something ... anything) to help repair that unit.
John (Sit) |
larry,you failed to quantify what you call "degree of resale value" is it even possible to do? I won't believe mc has the best without proof. |
7b4me, I am not Larry, but this might say something to help confirm what Larry stated.
http://www.classicaudio.com/value/mac/index.html
Also, Larry didn't say Mc has the best resale value, just that it was good. |
"My beef with McIntosh is the lack of service/support based upon my experiences. "
I thought MAC provide the best support bar none, just yesterday I was able to get a faceplate for a model more than 10 years old abd get personal tech support from Chuck! |
there is so many other products out ther better than mac it is funny.mac is like bose they been around for ever so people think it is the best.i would compare mac to adcom,rotel etc... |
Wadia. that is so funny...Do you know what your are talking about anyway? if it was humour, I take it all back |
I don't think any of these posts actually answr the original question. The answers are mostly people who own McIntosh trying to vindicate their purchases and defend themselves.
But, I think it's true: Looking through discussion posts, at members' systems, real high end systems don't have a lot of McIntosh mixed in. Systems where I've seen them are ALL McIntosh.
I think they have a MidFi reputation and so people stray away. Regardless of how they really sound. |
Anybody wanting a really fantastic amp should get the McIntosh 2102. As a stand alone amp it beats just ablut any other i have listened to.
This amp, in all honesty, would be the last system component I would part with. |
I do, I have 501 monoblocks and I love them. I have also owned and heard many others. My last system was all BAT. 501's Stereophile awards the MC501 Monoblock Amplifier the Amplifier of the Year 2004.
HiFi Grand Prix award goes to MC501 Monoblocks 2004.
Absolute Sound reviews the 402/C46 amp/preamp and claims "the best sound I have had in my system"
So unless Stereophile, Absolute Sound and my own ears are lying, McIntosh makes great HIFI gear. I can't find one fault. Let your ears be the judge and give them an audition. |
My amp progression has taken me from Hafler to Conrad Johnson to Krell to a Mac 352. True, all solid state, and all fine sounding amps, but the Mac is easily the best sounding amp I have ever owned. So there is my 2 cents. |
I can't believe people are still argueing about this, this thread was started in 2001! Let it go, we're not making any progress.
And I still have not owned any mac gear. |
Don't know what your missin' Tim. :) |
Oh but I do Brian :-p Its your first tube amp, I am sure you will try other's... |
You know me to well Tim, in fact... |
They do, many of them.
Lenny |
I think many audio enthusiasts use McIntosh, myself included. McIntosh has been in business for well over 50 years and has a huge, devoted customer base. McIntosh gear is some of the most coveted audio equipment on the planet and most buyers purchase it with an eye toward long-term ownership. |
Anyone ever see a reputable speaker manufacturer or other high end manufacturer using McIntosh in their demo rooms at any of the shows??? Me neither.
Why do you think that is?? |
Anyone ever see a reputable speaker manufacturer or other high end manufacturer using McIntosh in their demo rooms at any of the shows??? Me neither.
Why do you think that is?? Because whether or not another manufacturer wanted to exhibit with McIntosh gear, I'm willing to bet that McIntosh doesn't allow it. For confirmation, you could ask them directly. |
Of course it is not the only reason. But I think part of it is that owning McIntosh equipment may just be too simple for enthusiasts. Most, not all, enthusiasts want to try different equipment, agonize over their cables, find synergestic components, etc - in other words, most, not all, want to play and have fun with the equipment side of the hobby. I think McIntosh equipment appeals to those who want great sound, a good value, ultra-reliable, minimum "syngery" games, and the enjoy the equipment for the next 20 years. These are not necessarily the goals or drives of enthusiasts. Speaking for myself, I like some alchemy, some worry, some tweaking, some pondering - I think McIntosh is for those for whom this element of the hobby is not a priority. You will hear enthusiasts say they have found their last amp, their last pre-amp, etc. it never happens, it can't hasppen to an enthusiast, but it does appear to happen to happy owners of Mac. |
