@tonydennison ..Listening to Black Plate RCA’s and Mullards in my system, even for a short time made it glaringly obvious that modern manufactures are embarrassingly inadequate. There is absolutely no comparison.
I have 1950s & 1960 vintage curve-tracer matched RCAs Black plates, and 1965 Blackburn plant Mullard tubes, along with various new production tubes for my own Quicksilver amps. Some of the new tubes compare favorably, or better.
What "modern manufacturers" and "embarrassingly inadequate tubes" have you tried?
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@nonoise
I looked at the Tak's and they were over $1K a piece....No way Im doing that.
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""Where can I find these modern General Electric tubes?""
Whhops, I meant Western Electric.
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There's Takatsuki tubes made in Japan.
All the best,
Nonoise
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@audioman58
Where can I find these modern General Electric tubes?
Thank you in advance
T
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I'm generally not a fan of new production preamp, rectifiers . or 6L6s . The exceptions being Sophia Electric 6SN7s and 274B tubes which are very nice sounding tubes. (haven't tried their 12au7s or 12ax7s). I have been pleased with new production Gold Lion and Psvane KT88s , and Psvane & Linlai 845s. Not a fan of JJ, Electron Harmoniz, or Tungsol regardless of tube type . Otherwise, I use old stock preamp, rectifier, 6L6GCs and 7189As
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Modern tubes are just fine. Have vintage stuff that is just that old.
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many current production tubes are fine. some new production sound better than some old production.
now youve learned something
@mulveling and the availability of JJ small signal tubes, EL34...
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I won’t toss the baby out with the bath water. There are actually some terrific current production vacuum tubes as well as some not so terrific. I would not generalize. I have used current production EML 300b tubes in my SET mono blocks for many years. First pair lasted nearly 12 years with very heavy hours of use during that time. Simply splendid sound quality and zero reliability issues.
The 101D DHT tubes In my preamplifier are current production Psvane.W.E. Replica. Again, splendid sound quality and very reliable under very frequent/heavy usage. So it depends on which current production tubes one is referencing.
The amplifier’s rectifier and driver tubes are 1950s vintage. Same era (1950s) of tubes in my DAC. I’ve been very happy with this mixture of current and vintage tubes n my audio system. The sound is intoxicatingly natural.
Charles
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It’s true about some of the new tubes Some are really good but you may have to go through a few mediocre ones to get a great one.
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My uncle who I am estranged from was a stereo and TV repairman and has a basement full of tubes. Hundreds of not thousands.
A while back I said we should go through those , test them and make some money.
He said that’s stupid, no one’s buying those. He has some holy grail stuff and is too lazy to sort through it.
there’s guys like him here and there. That stuff is likely to get thrown away. A friend does clean outs. He used to drop off tubes here and there. Most were junk but stuff like new 6v6 rca definitely are not. Those days are long gone
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Hard disagree. I have a huge collection of vintage tubes and modern Russian production are excellent, imo. Even some of the Chinese tubes are quite good. Some of the worst sounding tubes in my collection are actually vintage RCA, late Sylvania, or those Philips ECG.
The old tubes were built to a higher standard of quality and consistency, I'll give you that. Even the insides of most old tubes tend to be meticulous and gorgeous. They can also take more abuse and keep ticking. But to replicate that today would be impossible due to exorbitant costs and environmental regulations. For what you get in great sound and reasonable reliability (after lots of screening) the Russian tubes are really a bargain. Our amazing sounding modern high-end tube amps and preamps exist largely thanks to affordable Russian tubes supporting that industry.
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They can western electric, emmisions labs,
Tak from Japan all power tubes. To make them with top tungsten and tight vaccum
it is more $$. That’s why they are made in China or Russia.
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@gs5556
""Back in the 40's, 50's and 60's tubes were in everything and were literally a dime a dozen. So maybe the tubes that are around today were just heartier than the rest and the vast majority weren't so great. ""
interesting idea, but far from corroborated.
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@invalid
""The lumber was way heavier and stronger back then, definitely not put together better compared to today."""
Our best wood has been sent to China for years. All we have access to is the stuff they don't want.
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@oddiofyl
""If you want close to zero maintenance then a Solid State amp is best. ""
If I knew of a SS that was as good as my QS's and I could afford them, I would switch tomorrow.
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@jond
""Noromance nailed it lots of the materials and processes used to make tubes back in the day are illegal now and horrible for the environment. ""
Maybe some ......Innovation is in order.
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@oddiofyl
""
Western Electric has acquired a lot of tooling to make small signal tubes. I heard that they bought a bunch of the old Ei factory tooling and machinery.
Hopefully they will be producing quality tubes in the near future. ""
lets us hope so...
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@ghdprentice
""The rest have performed flawlessly for there entire life or are still in use.""
The issue is not failing tubes, but other tubes from the 50's that sound 70 times better than any modern tube.
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I wouldn't necessarily generalize things. Back in the 40's, 50's and 60's tubes were in everything and were literally a dime a dozen. So maybe the tubes that are around today were just heartier than the rest and the vast majority weren't so great.
So it's possible that in 50 years, the batches made today by New Sensor and the such will have survivors that are better performers and audiophiles will be lamenting why can't we have the same quality tubes as audiophiles had in 2023.
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Luckily I live in a 50's house. Built to last. Made by actual craftsmen that care
The lumber was way heavier and stronger back then, definitely not put together better compared to today.
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Ghdprentice makes a good point about the longevity of well made tubes. A 6922 is rated for 10,000 hours , as are a lot of other small signal tubes
I use e180f in my amp and have about a dozen or more pairs of NOS tubes , Mullard , Amperex, GE, Telefunken.. all relatively cheap, except the Tele. Those were $75
I basically have a lifetime of tubes for that amp, also have a dozen 274b and 5r4gy tubes .
After a year of use they all tested like new or close. I can run that thing every day for years and never run out. I probably went overboard but at least when I'm dead the next owner won't have to worry
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I also have had pretty good luck overall. A lot of the tubes I replaced had a llt of hours and with the getter disappearing and silkscreen evaporated it was time to replace before meltdown.
If you want close to zero maintenance then a Solid State amp is best. I love tubes, I do, but they aren't always practical
I just bought a awesome little integrated amp. I set it up in my main room and it sounded so good I left it there for a couple of weeks. It's in another room now and i find myself using it a lot. Turing tube gear on and off for short listening periods isn't really the best thing for tubes. Or when it 's 95 ° ...
Now I'll come home , turn the little system on , listen a little and turn it off . It get's me 80% there but I will always use my main system for longer periods
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If only more golden ear audiophiles made tubes…. Somebody better get on it before it’s too late and the age of tubes is over.
Oh. wait….
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I guess we use different tubes. I have 50 tubes in my current systems, and have used tubes for decades… although less in number. I got a whistle in a tube a few years ago after several years of use and had on tube that died upon arrival. The rest have performed flawlessly for there entire life or are still in use.
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I heard that they only had enough of some of the original materials for WE 300b to make something like 30,000 pairs.
Obviously that original 300b recipe is long gone but I wanted to have a spare so I actually bought a spare pair just in case.
Western Electric has acquired a lot of tooling to make small signal tubes. I heard that they bought a bunch of the old Ei factory tooling and machinery.
Hopefully they will be producing quality tubes in the near future. They will be doing common power tubes.
I really wish they would produce a 6922 but i think its not on their radar like guitar amp and common power tubes are.
As for quality , my WE 300b tubes still test like new after a year of use, a lot of use. They sound great , I hope to get a long life out of thsm
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Luckily I live in a 50's house. Built to last. Made by actual craftsmen that cared.
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Noromance nailed it lots of the materials and processes used to make tubes back in the day are illegal now and horrible for the environment. There's no going back for very good reason.
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New Tung Sol efforts are good. Toxic materials used in the last century not used today. Look at the deteriorated quality of home-building now compared to the 50s.
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I think back in the day, Americans and Europeans had the attitude "Do it right, or don't bother. And I think thats a good view to take.
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How large is the tube market today compared to the 1950’s and are current manufacturers sufficiently profitable to be able to invest in improvements to their manufacturing processes?
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